Operation Pillar of Smoke

[Life]

Where's the Facebook page that has the attendence thing? Wanna put "Life is attending".

In all seriousness, shit's going down. Rockets are hitting Kiryat Malachi and Rishon Letzion and Egypt is planning on cutting ties with Israel. No ground strike has been called yet but Gaza might end up getting razed at this rate.

Predictions?

[Hawk King]

Life, I am so sorry for you. I can't even imagine what that shit must be like. Literally fighting for the freedom of your country. Knowing that each day might be your last. I tear up thinking about this because I am completely powerless to do anything about it. Stay strong, and most importantly stay alive.

I dont pray nearly as often as I should, but I am going to pray for you and all of Isreal.

[Life]

Appreciated. Seriously. Can't confirm or deny if I'll be on the front lines.

Just one thing so that everyone knows. We have no beef with the people. Our fight is with those who shoot Qassams at our people and cities. My shopping mall in Beer Sheva took a rocket yesterday. Don't get fooled by reports of the IDF going after civilians, they're not true. If you guys can spread the word, thanks.

[Life]

Update: Rocket just hit Tel Aviv.

[Raven]

It looks like BBC World's on top of this shit, at least. Israel shoots to destroy important targets and officials while Gaza shoots in an attempt to kill as many people as possible.

Really nothing I can do except hope you don't lose your life or any of your friends or family, and that Gaza will stop attacking, one way or another.

Personally I'm glad Israel is defending themselves instead of just sitting around and doing nothing. Britain needs to take a few notes from Israel on how to treat terrorists/extremists.

[Original Alear]

Good luck, don't die.

[Helios]

Take care of yourself, Life. Regardless of how I feel about the situation, I'd rather not see someone get hurt.

[Jedi]

Life, I am so sorry for you. I can't even imagine what that shit must be like. Literally fighting for the freedom of your country. Knowing that each day might be your last. I tear up thinking about this because I am completely powerless to do anything about it. Stay strong, and most importantly stay alive.

I dont pray nearly as often as I should, but I am going to pray for you and all of Isreal.

I couldn't have said it better myself.. Be careful out there Life. my prayers are with you and the people of Israel, its all I can do I'm afraid.

[cyron]

Life, I am so sorry for you. I can't even imagine what that shit must be like. Literally fighting for the freedom of your country. Knowing that each day might be your last. I tear up thinking about this because I am completely powerless to do anything about it. Stay strong, and most importantly stay alive.

I dont pray nearly as often as I should, but I am going to pray for you and all of Isreal.

best way to say it

[Esme]

I've been keeping up with the news about the attacks. It all sounds absolutely terrifying. Now... I can't do much, although I strongly wish that I had such power to do so. All I can say is, be strong and persevere. Life, I sincerely hope that you and your loved ones stay safe in this time of war and strife.

Uh... this may sound a bit odd, but I ask that you take a moment to enjoy a little something that makes you happy. I mean, you're a soldier who might just be put into danger any day now (although you probably already are thanks to the missiles), and it might just be best to prepare for what may come.

Again, be strong and persevere.

[eclipse]

I may not agree with you on everything, but it's nice to hear things from someone over there. Come back in one piece, because you still owe me a game of LoL.

[Raven]

I'm sure some of you are aware of the group Avaaz. They go around doing stuff like protesting and stuff and I sometimes sign their petitions online. Well anyway I just received this email from them:

Dear Avaazers in the UK,

As bombs rain down on Gaza, Palestinians and Israelis are on the brink of another cycle of violence and vengeance. But, right now, the Palestinian Authority is preparing a bid to the UN that could be the best chance for peace. Let's help them win it. While people in southern Israel live in fear of rocket fire, the Gazan people live under siege, imprisoned in a tiny stretch of land. And in the West Bank people are driven from their lands by illegal settlements; their sick get stuck for hours in Israeli checkpoints on the way to hospital; and families are divided by a huge wall that slices through their fields. But if the Palestinians win their UN bid for a state now, it could begin to end the 40 years of occupation, and pave the way for two states, Palestine and Israel, living side by side in peace and security. The US and Israel are furiously trying to crush the UN vote, and the attack on Gaza may be an attempt to shift attention from the bid and present the Palestinians as untrustworthy partners. But the UK is still on the fence, and EU Foreign Ministers meet in just four days. If we all speak out now, we can persuade the UK government to vote 'yes' for peace and freedom.

This is a legitimate, non-violent proposal that would provide Palestinians with a new legal status. And it is the best opportunity to turn the tide on endless US-led talks that do little more than provide cover for the steady illegal colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israeli 'settlements'. The Palestinian resolution calls for the resumption and acceleration of negotiations. A 'yes' vote would rescue the path to a more balanced and fair peace process between two legitimate states. While the Israeli and US governments are calling the bid 'unilateral' and dangerous, in fact the UN, World Bank and IMF say that the Palestinians are ready to run their own state, if only the occupation would end. And the world's nations overwhelmingly support this diplomatic move away from violence. Ironically, the US/Israel efforts to overturn this bid and their threats to cut off money to the Palestinians are self-defeating as they boost the power of those who want to do away with Israel as a Jewish state. Last year the US blocked a Palestinian bid at the UN Security Council. But in the upcoming vote at the UN General Assembly, all nations vote, and this resolution could begin to end the US/Israeli hegemony over this conflict. It can't fully admit Palestine to the UN, but it can declare Palestine a state, with access to a range of international organisations, and give greater international legitimacy to non-violent Palestinian efforts to stop the Israeli military occupation.

Bombs and rockets are killing people right now, and Europe holds the key to this chance for freedom and peace -- if we can persuade the UK, France, Spain, Germany to stand on the right side of history and back Palestinian independence, with firm support and financial aid, this could be a turning point.

Palestinian statehood will not bring a resolution to this intractable conflict overnight, but UN recognition will change the dynamics and will begin to unlock the door towards freedom and peace.Across Palestine, people are preparing, with hope and expectation, to reclaim a freedom their generation has never known. Let's stand with them.

With hope and determination,

Alice, Jeremy, Marie, Ricken, Aldine, Nick, Antonia, Pascal and the rest of the Avaaz team

It all sounds very convincing, however I wouldn't mind betting there's another side to this whole thing. If Palestinians did become recognised as a Country, what then? Would they seriously cease targeting Israeli civilians, which in turn would stop Israel's retaliations? Israel and the USA don't seem to think so. I also have my doubts, considering their desperation to kill as many Israelis as possible over the last week or so (over 100 rockets/missiles fired into Israel).

Edited November 16, 2012 by Raven

[Anouleth]

It all sounds very convincing, however I wouldn't mind betting there's another side to this whole thing. If Palestinians did become recognised as a Country, what then? Would they seriously cease targeting Israeli civilians, which in turn would stop Israel's retaliations? Israel and the USA don't seem to think so. I also have my doubts, considering their desperation to kill as many Israelis as possible over the last week or so (over 100 rockets/missiles fired into Israel).

Well, you might well ask, what is the alternative? Either Palestine is recognised as a country (two-state solution), or Gaza and the West Bank are absorbed into Israel and the Palestinians denationalised and deported (one-state solution), or what? This state of affairs continues forever?

Would the Palestinians seriously cease targeting Israeli civilians because Israel invaded them? Has the use of force by Israel had good results in the past?

[Raven]

Well, you might well ask, what is the alternative? Either Palestine is recognised as a country (two-state solution), or Gaza and the West Bank are absorbed into Israel and the Palestinians denationalised and deported (one-state solution), or what? This state of affairs continues forever?

Would the Palestinians seriously cease targeting Israeli civilians because Israel invaded them? Has the use of force by Israel had good results in the past?

I sincerely doubt that even recognising Palestine as a Country will stop the Hamas from firing missiles indiscriminately into Israel.

[Nightmare]

Stay safe, Life. I would not like to see civilians come to harm. I hope the peace talks and all work out.

I sincerely doubt that even recognising Palestine as a Country will stop the Hamas from firing missiles indiscriminately into Israel.

Excuse me for a moment, if you will. Let me test your knowledge on this subject.

Do you even know why Hamas is firing missiles into Israel?

[Raven]

Excuse me for a moment, if you will. Let me test your knowledge on this subject.

Do you even know why Hamas is firing missiles into Israel?

I don't mind being tested, and truthfully I do not know the full story. Why do they feel the need to fire missiles into Israel?

The way I currently see it is this: Hamas are firing missiles into Israel, prompting Israel into returning fire into Palestine in an attempt to destroy Hamas targets. Innocent people are getting killed in both exchanges of fire, whether it be intentional or otherwise.

There's undoubtedly more to this situation, so please educate.

[Nightmare]

I don't mind being tested, and truthfully I do not know the full story. Why do they feel the need to fire missiles into Israel?

The way I currently see it is this: Hamas are firing missiles into Israel, prompting Israel into returning fire into Palestine in an attempt to destroy Hamas targets. Innocent people are getting killed in both exchanges of fire, whether it be intentional or otherwise.

There's undoubtedly more to this situation, so please educate.

Well, the full idea of the situation is that Hamas is resisting against Israel's occupation and colonisation. That's right, Israel invaded and occupied Palestine over 39 years ago, and they've been continuing their aggressions since. It's simply natural that the Palestinians would mount resistance. I'm not really happy about these attacks on Israel (while like everyone over here is celebrating, but this is war; war has no celebration), but I'm even less happy about Israel's continued war crimes. That's why we should all hope for the peace to go through, so that the casualties on both sides would cease.

[Raven]

Well, the full idea of the situation is that Hamas is resisting against Israel's occupation and colonisation. That's right, Israel invaded and occupied Palestine over 39 years ago, and they've been continuing their aggressions since. It's simply natural that the Palestinians would mount resistance. I'm not really happy about these attacks on Israel (while like everyone over here is celebrating, but this is war; war has no celebration), but I'm even less happy about Israel's continued war crimes. That's why we should all hope for the peace to go through, so that the casualties on both sides would cease.

I see. What is/was Israel's reason(s) for wanting to occupy Palestine? Is Israel still occupying the land? Does this occupation justify firing missiles indiscriminately into Israel all year long? This is the part I have trouble getting my head around. Surely there are diplomatic methods other than trying to kill Israeli civilians, even if Israel were the initial aggressors.

As you said, war is not good. The sooner peace talks become effective with both sides abiding to it, the better.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Raven

[Nightmare]

I see. What is/was Israel's reason(s) for wanting to occupy Palestine? Is Israel still occupying the land? Does this occupation justify firing missiles indiscriminately into Israel all year long? This is the part I have trouble getting my head around. Surely there are diplomatic methods other than trying to kill Israeli civilians, even if Israel were the initial aggressors.

Because they believe the land was given to the Jews, and should belong to them. To that end, they mean to regain the land by whatever means possible. Of course, they definitely have more agendas than just ancient history, otherwise this much effort wouldn't really be worth it. Some may tell you that there were peaceful talks of separating Palestine into two states (Arab and Jewish), and it's true. But what is also true is Israel's under-the-table deals with Jordan, to annex the entirety of Palestine's share of the land. And yes, they're still occupying it. Otherwise, there would be no trouble now.

From those facts, I'll let you decide if any of this resistance is justified or not. Of course, I don't agree with attacking indiscriminately, but you could say Israel had it coming, because they did the exact same, and it would make sense that Hamas is trying to give them a taste of their own medicine. I still don't think this, in particular, is justified, but this is war and people get desperate, so it's bound to happen.

If you want to know a more comprehensive history, look no further.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Nightmare

[Raven]

Because they believe the land was given to the Jews, and should belong to them. To that end, they mean to regain the land by whatever means possible. Of course, they definitely have more agendas than just ancient history, otherwise this much effort wouldn't really be worth it. Some may tell you that there were peaceful talks of separating Palestine into two states (Arab and Jewish), and it's true. But what is also true is Israel's under-the-table deals with Jordan, to annex the entirety of Palestine's share of the land. And yes, they're still occupying it. Otherwise, there would be no trouble now.

From those facts, I'll let you decide if any of this resistance is justified or not. Of course, I don't agree with attacking indiscriminately, but you could say Israel had it coming, because they did the exact same, and it would make sense that Hamas is trying to give them a taste of their own medicine. I still don't think this, in particular, is justified, but this is war and people get desperate, so it's bound to happen.

If you want to know a more comprehensive history, look no further.

That's interesting to know. It's a shame that civilians are getting killed and even more that this conflict is even existing at all. A peaceful resolution should be top priority for both sides of this, but it all seems to be one rather large mess at the moment.

[Nightmare]

That's interesting to know. It's a shame that civilians are getting killed and even more that this conflict is even existing at all. A peaceful resolution should be top priority for both sides of this, but it all seems to be one rather large mess at the moment.

"One rather large mess" is a fitting way to describe it. Both sides just need to stop their aggressions and reach a peaceful solution, and though that's easier said than done, we can still try and hope.

[Raven]

Both sides just need to stop their aggressions and reach a peaceful solution, and though that's easier said than done, we can still try and hope.

I'll drink to that.

Your patience in educating someone somewhat ignorant of the situation is appreciated.

[tenkiforecast]

Stay safe, that's all I can say.

The middle east, truthfully, has been in a state of chaos since the 1800s. Downfall of Muslim empires, Western European involvement, all of that.

What made *everything* worse, was World War I, and the Middle East was no exception. You see all those countries carved out in the Middle East? That's thanks to WWI and the Allied countries. They concerned themselves with THEIR territory, their own interests, and their wants. They made multitudes of deals with the Muslim powers in the area, and betrayed every one of those deals because, in essence, "They are not Christian, so they are not human."

Woodrow Wilson tried to stop this, but he gave up a lot of his views to pin his hopes on the League of Nations, which collapsed because he had no consensus in the USA. So until 1949, the US was seen as a savior in the Middle East because we protested the occupation and divvying up up Muslim Lands. Then WWII happened, because of the Holocaust the Western world felt obligated to do something to "make up for" our ambivalence and prejudice towards fleeing European Jews (the USA banned most of them from entering the country, actually, only the famous ones got to the US--Oh hi Einstein), so creating the nation of Israel ceased being an idea proclaimed by a fringe group of the Jewish community (Zionists were around back in the 1920s, truthfully I do not know how widespread the idea really was) and became a reality, with President Truman being the first to recognize Israel as a country.

The century of European/American interference in the Middle East and the creation of Israel is why many Muslim countries despise the United States and Europe. It is easy to understand why--would you want some other nation with different values dictating what you can and cannot do? That's one of the reasons why most Muslim countries hate Israel, it is the ultimate symbol of Judea-Christian interference in their lands.

Edited November 16, 2012 by tenkiforecast

[dondon151]

Life, I am so sorry for you. I can't even imagine what that shit must be like. Literally fighting for the freedom of your country. Knowing that each day might be your last. I tear up thinking about this because I am completely powerless to do anything about it. Stay strong, and most importantly stay alive.

I dont pray nearly as often as I should, but I am going to pray for you and all of Isreal.

I'm going to be perfectly honest here: Life is not an Israelite, and he embodies all of the negative qualities of the stereotypical Islamophobic Jew.

[Helios]

Serious question for Life, if you're allowed to answer this. When innocent civilians like women and kids do end up getting killed because of the Israeli army's attacks, is that a cause of collateral damage or something? I just ask because I don't want to believe that people actually intentionally kill them.