Schoolteacher Mafia

[Helios]

You guys are honestly tunneling so hard that it's not even logical anymore. You're seriously trying to twist things into proving that I'm scum that it doesn't even make sense anymore.

You do realize that a scum!safeguard means a pseudohitman AND pseudoninja every night, right? Why would there be a one-time hitman shot if this were the case? Do you realize how OP that is? THAT is how I'm sure the hypothetical safeguard would be town.

Also, with your logic that "anything is possible", something even MORE likely than this is that Shinori and Elieson are actually scumbuddies. Shinori hooked Kay, claimed to be redirected to Elieson, and Elieson claimed to have failed his action but actually targeted a townie PR. There is actually more proof that this is the case of what happened, and this is nothing but a stupid theory I can think up in two seconds. But hey, anything is possible right?

Alright I know that sounds kind of mean and I'm sorry, it's just a little annoying that we're thinking up unrealistic reasons as to why I'm scum, and focusing on that, whereas there are much better cases on other players in this game that people are forgetting.

[Grace]

Hmmm okay. Maybe looking through your other content might make me feel a little better about you.

(Regarding your theory: Scum had a kidnapper which roleblocked so it's unlikely that scum also have a normal roleblock as well but hey who knows)

I'm still wondering how Kay's action failed though but oh well.

Gonna give you the benefit of the doubt for now and

##Unvote

[Shinori]

Also, with your logic that "anything is possible", something even MORE likely than this is that Shinori and Elieson are actually scumbuddies. Shinori hooked Kay, claimed to be redirected to Elieson, and Elieson claimed to have failed his action but actually targeted a townie PR. There is actually more proof that this is the case of what happened, and this is nothing but a stupid theory I can think up in two seconds. But hey, anything is possible right?

Alright I know that sounds kind of mean and I'm sorry, it's just a little annoying that we're thinking up unrealistic reasons as to why I'm scum, and focusing on that, whereas there are much better cases on other players in this game that people are forgetting.

What are the other cases? you had one on KAoz that was basically was like "He's done nothing, hasn't scum hunted ignores everything isn't reading, and basicaly said fuck you town." Okay, yeah kaoz is really scummy and I think he should claim. Other viable cases I think are on Kay and scorri.

However instead of pointing out OTHER CASES You are only defending yourself. Not to mention that you try to peg me and elieson as scum buddies. Which means two role blockers on scum team and a hypothetical safeguard. There is no proof in that case cause two roleblockers is stupid for scum and a bit overkill.

This post isn't helping you at all. If you have other cases that you say are better than yours, please, explain them. Point them out and actually scum hunt instead of hard defend yourself from me who you say is just tunneling.

How did Town!Eclipse handle my tunneling in Chilean? She ignored me, scum hunted, and played like a townie. You aren't.

[Shinori]

I'm gonna go relook at helios content AGAIN. But still I don't like the responses. you aren't actually scum hunting. You just keep semi defending yourself and saying "I'm town" The only scum hunting I have really seen you do today was Kaoz pressure, and he obviously isn't around to do anything about it. I'd much rather just ignore him at the moment and press targets that will actually give us better ideas based on flips. Then at some point in time in the future just block him or inspect him. I still want him to claim when he gets back.

[Helios]

I scumhunted a ton D1, scumhunted some more D2, and did pretty much all I can so far D3. However, you're right in that I should take a look at scorri (since I've already done Kay and Kaoz) so I'll take a look that actually.

You're starting to see my point, Shinori (I was being sarcastic with that whole theory in case you missed it)....

But I did? I'm only defending myself so much because you and Elieson are tunneling hard and now Manix got in on the action because of lolroletheory. Seeing as I've been the main topic of discussion it's only natural that I spend a ton of posts defending myself, what do you expect? And take your own words you've spent 80% of your scumhunting time tunneling me and 20% quickly mentioning someone else before going back to me. Elieson kinda falls into the same boat here but at least he found the cult.

Town!Eclipse only had to deal with you tunneling and not others because the others were spending time attacking other players which is why town got a relatively quick win. I'll try my best to continue to scumhunt and help the town but if my scumhunting so far hasn't been satisfactory then there really isn't much else I can do.

[Elieson]

Hmmmm

All this theorymon is neat but not concrete. Unfortunately, nothing really is. SB is kinda and I feel I am, but not much else said is set in stone so it is hard to move forward since we have so little comfortable.

I almost want to suggest a mass claim (what with 11 players on d3, might be too soon) but I can't think of any other way to make sense of things.

I actually have a few theories that can be tested by mass claim but since we have what, 4/11 claimed, and 2 players posting like one every phase, I fail to see any other effective plan.

Because put scum hunting has been reduced to pointing fingers and " he could if she is and they did"s.

So, mass claim?

[Grace]

tbh I don't think massclaiming is a good idea right now Elie

I think the problem lies is that people aren't putting in the effort (myself included)

[Baldrick]

It'd certainly beat my original plan, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. I wouldn't be opposed to it if there's support for it, but if we do go down that path, I'd like kaoz and maybe a couple of others to go before me.

[scorri]

Typically the way mass claim goes is we all agree on who's the scummiest and then they claim and then pick who they view as the most scummy. Aka popcorn style. But, I agree with Manix. I think that town has more to lose from mass claim than we have to gain.

[Elieson]

Yea, I guess so. I didn't even think of inactive players not even showing up to claim when called for :/

I just think discussion has reached a point where nothing is really coming up except theories and theories and theories.

[Balcerzak]

Even if Helios ends up being lynched scum, this push feels like it's focusing on all the wrong reasons.

Also, this doesn't feel like typical Helios scum meta defense to me.

Kaoz does have some point, when it comes to lynching inactives, but that shouldn't give him a get out of jail free card. I don't think I plan to move until he claims.

In the event we approach universal loss threshold deadline and we're still gridlocked, expect me to take whatever crazy ass drastic actions needed. I'll fucking bring on the revolutioooooooooooon!

[Baldrick]

Balcerzak, is that meant to be RPing, breadcrumbing, post restriction, or what?

I don't know whether it's because not enough people have been active, or defense has been too solid, but I feel the discussion has never had enough momentum to last 72 hours. The first two days, something exceptional happened (Mancer's claim, Elie's cult reveal) to unify the suspicions of everyone. We haven't seen anything like that today - yet.

[Elieson]

Fuck I have an idea to generate discussion and with activity as balls as it is, nothing will even come from the 1/2 of the players that jump into it.

This is getting old, fast.

[Sunwoo]

This inactivity wouldn't be a thing if I hadn't been lynched D1 >_>

[Kay]

It's my first game in quite a while, can somebody explain to me why role speculation is actively detrimental? It's not the best way to scumhunt, but it gives scum less place to hide. We have less suspects for a scummy role, which would help a roleblocker pinpoint who it is, and it makes a false claim less likely to hold up.

I basically did. Because it can get our power roles killed. Bring that up when someone does claim and you have something to try to disprove, then.

Balcerzak, is that meant to be RPing, breadcrumbing, post restriction, or what?

Why the heck are you doing this? I get that you think zak could have a power role. So do the mafia, I'm sure. You don't ask people if they're crumbing. If zak thinks he should reveal his role, he will. Otherwise, you either figure he's likely scum, or you trust his judgment in revealing his own role or not.

Okay, have an example. Say you see somebody crumbing Cop D1. Do you speculate about them being cop, in the thread for all to see, and call attention to it, probably getting them nightkilled if they aren't likely to be lynched or something instead, or do you put it in your own notes and shut the heck up about it, leaving it to them to say what they want about their own role? Which of these do you think is more townish?

Whether this makes sense or not, and I'm sorry if it doesn't, cut it out already.

I thought it would have been obvious enough that I didn't need to name him. Did you read my D2 posts?

It's Helios.

If it's so incredibly obvious, he's pretty likely to be aware of it himself. You can't just expect us to know and also claim to not want him to know you suspect him.

##Unvote

##Vote Kaoz

His last post can be translated as a "fuck you town you're not worth my time".

Laziness isn't really that specifically scummy, I think.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I'm not really seeing either Helios or Kaoz (mostly Helios, though) as scum right now. And pardon the meta, but particularly not now that NPoTM ended, since Helios acted very similarly in that game.

[Kay]

Realized that sounded kind of harsh, so sorry about that, Baldrick. No offense meant.

[Shinori]

Lynches I would support.

Scorri

Helios

Kaoz

If absolutely none of these go. Then manix or kay as a last resort. But I'd prefer to not lynch kay.

[eclipse]

Not much has changed since Shinori's votals. 23 hours left. I might not be around for phase end, but it will end at the given time anyway (in other words, anyone who talks after the time phase is supposed to end will be dealt with).

[Baldrick]

I basically did. Because it can get our power roles killed. Bring that up when someone does claim and you have something to try to disprove, then.

I can understand your concerns, but at the time Balcerzak was a reasonable chance of being lynched. I didn't want that, so I thought to outline why he's townish to me. I didn't reveal anything particularly insightful, just some basic logic based on what him being blocked that a single person might miss (it might be obvious, but two people targetted the claimed commuter the first day, so better safe than sorry). I don't think my actions provided the mafia with anything they didn't have before.

Why the heck are you doing this? I get that you think zak could have a power role. So do the mafia, I'm sure. You don't ask people if they're crumbing. If zak thinks he should reveal his role, he will. Otherwise, you either figure he's likely scum, or you trust his judgment in revealing his own role or not.

Okay, have an example. Say you see somebody crumbing Cop D1. Do you speculate about them being cop, in the thread for all to see, and call attention to it, probably getting them nightkilled if they aren't likely to be lynched or something instead, or do you put it in your own notes and shut the heck up about it, leaving it to them to say what they want about their own role? Which of these do you think is more townish?

Whether this makes sense or not, and I'm sorry if it doesn't, cut it out already.

For the record, I consider the latter two much more likely. The example also isn't quite the same, as the person is presumably taking the line and demonstrating how it could be a cop crumb, and cop is a more Night-killable role than anything Bal could be crumbing, given how subversive it is. That said, it was a pointless question, I'm not going to get any information of value from it.

I don't mean to keep coming back to him, but like Elieson, I've out of ideas, and Bal's giving me a thread to play with. You're right, I should keep my mouth shut about it.

If it's so incredibly obvious, he's pretty likely to be aware of it himself. You can't just expect us to know and also claim to not want him to know you suspect him.

I meant it in a 'speak of the devil' sense. If I really wanted to conceal my suspicion, I wouldn't have said kaoz is "not my biggest suspect"

Realized that sounded kind of harsh, so sorry about that, Baldrick. No offense meant.

Think nothing of it. I don't see any offense, you've been focusing on my actions only.

[Kaoz]

Since there are requests that I claim and nobody said anything to the contrary from what I've seen, I'm Tracker. Targeted Bal N1 and saw him visit Paperblade, targeted Kay N2 and saw her visit Helios.

[Elieson]

Since there are requests that I claim and nobody said anything to the contrary from what I've seen, I'm Tracker. Targeted Bal N1 and saw him visit Paperblade, targeted Kay N2 and saw her visit Helios.

Aaaaany particular reason you chose to track Balc / Kay?

[Elieson]

Well Kay in particular, but reasoning on both would be nice.

[Elieson]

Also, town has a Watcher, Tracker, and Full Cop?

Anyone else find that to be a wee bit strong for town in a 17p game, or is that expected:average?

[Kaoz]

Don't wanna track Paper in case he can use the commuter tonight... also his role should produce visible effects and potential scumbuddy claiming it is risky... NekoRex also produces a visible effect at some point, and as long as he doesn't, tracking him isn't that beneficial either... I don't feel the need to track Shinori to be honest since the role at least probably isn't fake... going with Bal in the end because there's not much info on him at the moment and he tends to have good defensive play, so if he's mafia every bit helps.

^That was my reasoning for Bal. Kay is mostly the same. While I didn't know what she had said during D2, given her usual playstyle and number of posts at the time, it felt like an ok choice.

Speculating about role strength in relation to balance is fairly useless unless you have a good idea of both sides' roles by the way.

[Grace]

Okay uh leave the tracker claim for now (even though it's entirely possible it was faked BUT yeah)

when D4 comes around no one should out their targets and let Kaoz out his report imo