Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[BBM]

@Prims- My 149 was about MY reasonings for why I thought CR was scummy, not your's. I said in that post that I thought MY reason for finding Shin scummy was worse than MY reasoning for finding CR scummy.

Also, I really don't like how Bizz doesn't like me going after Shin because it's an easy mislynch due to him being new, but is okay with lynching CR who is also new.

[Percivalé]

I want to lynch CR because I find her scummier than Shin, it has nothing to do with them being new ...

I said that the "Shin's pulling the newbie card!" is an easy thing to mislynch off of, plus I thought you were misrepping Shin in that respect.

Also don't agree with JB's "we shouldn't lynch CR because she's new" remark, that's antitown

[MancerNecro]

Urgh, this burst of activity is scary.....

It's going to take me a whole to read the whole one day of activity. Give me a while to read them please.

[Jaybee]

in the sense that it would make me feel really bad if i got someone into the game and got them lynched immediately.

[BBM]

@Prims- My 149 was about MY reasonings for why I thought CR was scummy, not your's. I said in that post that I thought MY reason for finding Shin scummy was better than MY reasoning for finding CR scummy.

Also, I really don't like how Bizz doesn't like me going after Shin because it's an easy mislynch due to him being new, but is okay with lynching CR who is also new.

Made a mistake there oops

Also I didn't say I was lynching Shin because he was pulling the newbie card... I voted him for nitpicking over small things and ignoring 90% of what's being said.

[Iris]

Not feeling Martfyh wagon still, since like I said earlier, "tacked on" + some of the proponents I haven't seen recently or have disappeared really (SB/scorri). Plus I just don't agree with the reasoning, he's just giving a bad defense which IIRC he's done multiple times before. 3rd largest wagon is SB which I'm also not feeling.

Also don't agree with JB's "we shouldn't lynch CR because she's new" remark, that's antitown

THIS, but after rereading CR + Prims's reasons, idk I'm not strongly opposed to a CR lynch but I wouldn't support it. I reread Shin too and his logic is way more wack than CR's, and while bad logic =/= scum, he seems more questionable than CR. But I'm not feeling a lynch on either of them atm.

Out of everyone who has a vote on them, I think I'll continue to vote for BBM but I'm sort of conflicted since he's attempted and has brought up some good points, but most of it seems like him catering to some people.

p sure why we're focusing on Marth / BBM mainly is because basically half the game has shit content (me included). I've sorta forgot they were in the game (p sure people forget I am too) which is sorta bad. :F

[Percivalé]

grr this is going to require me to dig the post out

[Prims]

So uh Iris you basically have no scumreads?

[Ciarre]

CR, funny how it's now you mention you wanted to hear my case. Earlier, you just thought I was weird and didn't make sense, not because you wanted to hear me out first.

doesn't make sense = explain plz

Also, elaborate on what? The votehop? There's not much I can say about that, that was just bad reasoning on my part.

##Unvote: Shin

I'm kind of bugged about the way Helios is just declaring me noobtown like it's a fact that I'm town. How would you know?

[Helios]

Iris, is anyone else other than BBM scummy to you (y/n) and why?

[Prims]

CR: Do you still think Marth is scum? Yes or no. Why was Shin a better vote than Marth as soon as somebody thought your logic behind the Marth vote was sheepy?

[Helios]

I'm kind of bugged about the way Helios is just declaring me noobtown like it's a fact that I'm town. How would you know?

I mean there's nothing 100 proof about it, but based on your play so far you're playing like a classic noobtown and it doesn't look like everything you're saying is your own ideas rather than a scumbuddy helping you, so I think it's a safe assumption. The important thing is to me, you're not a lynch priority right now. Besides shouldn't you be happy I believe you're town?

[Ciarre]

Yes, more than the others at least.

I panicked and jumped to the next person I was suspicious of, that's pretty much it. I didn't want to keep my vote on Marth because I had nothing to contribute that anyone else hadn't said already.

[Ciarre]

@helios: ok just wondering

also I kind of pulled some of my reasoning after the vote out of my ass so it would look like I was contributing

I don't understand how you guys are just coming up with all of this stuff.

[Iris]

Iris, is anyone else other than BBM scummy to you (y/n) and why?

Like I said Shin is questionable but not feeling that lynch.

I've always had weak D1 reads / always uncertain but I feel j00 is a little scummy. j00's spent all of the phase with his vote parked on SB who really isn't present and his scumhunting is sort of minimal -- he's trying to scumhunt SB who doesn't exist and he's unoriginal (on Marth wagon basically, since that's all he's commented on really sans his first post).

[Percivalé]

I forgot both j00 and scorri were playing this game

I'm getting a little paranoid about Helios, like he's trying too hard to get on some peoples' good sides/get their close trust but that's probably just my gut speaking.

[Helios]

Like I said Shin is questionable but not feeling that lynch.

I've always had weak D1 reads / always uncertain but I feel j00 is a little scummy. j00's spent all of the phase with his vote parked on SB who really isn't present and his scumhunting is sort of minimal -- he's trying to scumhunt SB who doesn't exist and he's unoriginal (on Marth wagon basically, since that's all he's commented on really sans his first post).

You have a lot of these "yeah they're kinda weird but I'm not feeling this lynch" reads which is kinda waffly and really indecisive, which is scummy.

I agree about j00 though and I think I said something like that earlier.

I'm getting a little paranoid about Helios, like he's trying too hard to get on some peoples' good sides/get their close trust but that's probably just my gut speaking.

Because I have townreads and interact with people since I have some free time and want to keep discussion alive?

[Percivalé]

In NPoT Paper and Prims buddied me pretty hard after Life upset me and idk I kind of got that from you when you defended me, and the way you were talking to CR just now just gave me that impression. It's pretty easy to sort of cloud up how people think by being super nice to them and siding with them when they're getting some heat and then benefiting from towncred when they turn up town. Like I said it's not super strong or something that I'm going to be strong about but I might as well say it.

[Percivalé]

oh god damn it

or something that I'm going to be adamant about*

[Percivalé]

I think I misread one of BBM's posts regarding Shin oops. I'm dumb. Doesn't really change much about my opinion on him though

[Jaybee]

alright

1. I really don't see how BBm is catering/pandering/whatever to people, unless that word means something other than what I think it means. Only thing I see from him is a lot of talking but not pushing that hard on things/not putting too much effort - Obviam and Bizz. He's doing a little better wrt Shin and CR, I guess.

2. 'fishing' for info is not necessarily a bad thing

3. i just noticed cr doubted helios saying she was town loool. interesting

4. Getting the noobtown vibes from CR too in the sense that it feels as though she has no idea what she's doing and she's defending herself pretty hard. The only argument I can really see for CR being maf is that she's doing pretty decently IMO for a first-time player, but even then that's really shaky reasoning.

Shin, on the other hand, rubs me the wrong way, especially this. His suggestions of BBM/CR being buddies remind me of Mancer screaming things like "Are the 3 of you scum?" Maybe it's because I still feel really horrible about the post I linked and I haven't seen anything from him that, in a way, 'redeems' that post.

Maybe it's because his avatar is the Grinch, idk.

5. Obviam's summary can pretty much be summarised (again) as "I really don't like Bizz." Would like to hear more about his reads on people not called Bizz.

more people need to start existing (jb, scorri, j00). current scumreads are shin (more gut than anything) and marth.

[Bluedoom]

More Reads:

Bizz: Too much wariness of everyone, perhaps your scumread list is outdated. Mind updating it, cuz looking at your posts I've seen you suspect me, BBM, Prims, Obviam and CR. Oh and Helios. Mind reconstructing it for me?

Obviam: Came in with some thoughts and although I can see how he's seeing the meaning of my posts I feel I dunno...weird? Defending me rather but that's not necessrily a scumtell. Neutral read. Still not sure why he keeps finding Bizz scummy but ok.

Helios: ##Unvote Vote: Helios

I kinda have a good idea now from your posts. You seem to be willing to find any reason to vote me, and you aren't willing to consider the circumstances around my scumhunting. Your aggressiveness against BBM and I actually suggests you're setting us up for mislynches. You fail to understand that the most active people in this thread happen to be those I gave my reads on AND those on my wagon. So I CANNOT HELP but defend and scumhunt because I've already had my say on whoever is not on my wagon. People are still going to say I do not contribute much simply because I addressed members on my wagon but FOM is in my reads post I hardly addressed anyone on my wagon and only did so in later posts. I haven't sidestepped any questions AFAIK (especially if you read my rant post) and it is actually you who is sidestepping considering you refuse to give me a better idea of your reads and thoughts. Finally, you didn't have any problem with bizz using meta for her reads ED1 (which in itself is meta) so I don't really see why I shouldn't use meta too.

Iris: The fact that she insists on a BBM lynch is weird. This is meta but, if BBM is scum she'd probably be scum too. Other than that though, more thoughts I suppose, but then we'd be going in circles.

JB: Uh I skimmed thru the thread but you attacked me cuz I said I'd find 6 people scum? Uhhh, look at the context which I posted that, and actually re-read cuz it feels like you aren't even trying now.

Dropping my read on SB for now bcoz he just went AFK and I can't even say anything about him anymore. BBM actually looks better because he's trying to contribute more but as far as info lynches go I would not be opposed to it. He can claim if he wants to but:

As far as claims go I don't want to claim even if you decide to lynch me. Considering how we've got votes parked on me I don't even think a claim would change anything(people would just say role doesn't tell alignment therefore I'm scum) and say I DO magically survive D1, at least I've outed no info.

SHinori should ping scorri cuz she's been AFK for two days now.

[Percivalé]

Only thing I see from him is a lot of talking but not pushing that hard on things/not putting too much effort - Obviam and Bizz.

I don't really know what else I can push...... already established why I'm suspicious of Obviam, I think it'd be dumb to pursue it further especially since he hasn't posted since that bigger post and then the other addressed to me. I still think BBM is scum; Prims is less so since the game started because he started off weak to me but his play has gotten a lot stronger and more specific (he's explaining things more as opposed to only pressuring/questioning people) so although he's not completely off the hook there are higher priorities imo. I don't know why he thinks Obviam is town though, I don't think he's done anything that notable aside from the ED1 analysis.

There's also the issue of lack of activity from a good number of players (especially Scorri, Elie, Mancer, SB, and j00), some of which seem to be dealing with unexpected life issues so it's hard to know what to do with them at this point of the day, though I might look back at j00, feels like a potential lynch candidate in the future. And I don't want to lynch SB today.

----- + though I don't want to auto-consider Iris town due to miller claim I haven't gotten any significant scum intentions from her aside from her low-profile activity and her vote on BBM feels like it's only because he's likely to be lynched + all of the other potential lynch targets are less scummy as opposed to her adamantly believing herself that BBM is scum, if that makes sense.

[Percivalé]

Bizz: Too much wariness of everyone, perhaps your scumread list is outdated. Mind updating it, cuz looking at your posts I've seen you suspect me, BBM, Prims, Obviam and CR. Oh and Helios. Mind reconstructing it for me?

Just did it. I don't really suspect you/CR as much as I suspect BBM and Obviam, and Prims has gotten a little better with passage of time. I liked most of Helios content, explained why he makes me paranoid though but there's not much else to his case besides that. Also I don't like revealing my townreads but I kind of just described Iris as a townread, so oops, but if it feels like I'm 'too wary' of everyone it's because I'd rather put everyone in terms of "who feels more scum than everyone else" than openly list who I think is town and who's not.

[Helios]

In NPoT Paper and Prims buddied me pretty hard after Life upset me and idk I kind of got that from you when you defended me, and the way you were talking to CR just now just gave me that impression. It's pretty easy to sort of cloud up how people think by being super nice to them and siding with them when they're getting some heat and then benefiting from towncred when they turn up town. Like I said it's not super strong or something that I'm going to be strong about but I might as well say it.

Oh I see I actually hadn't thought about that. I just honestly find you and CR town for the reasons I stated earlier. There's another reason why I'm being nice to you though but tbh it's not really mafia related but a personal thing.

Helios: ##Unvote Vote: Helios

I kinda have a good idea now from your posts. You seem to be willing to find any reason to vote me, and you aren't willing to consider the circumstances around my scumhunting. Your aggressiveness against BBM and I actually suggests you're setting us up for mislynches. You fail to understand that the most active people in this thread happen to be those I gave my reads on AND those on my wagon. So I CANNOT HELP but defend and scumhunt because I've already had my say on whoever is not on my wagon. People are still going to say I do not contribute much simply because I addressed members on my wagon but FOM is in my reads post I hardly addressed anyone on my wagon and only did so in later posts. I haven't sidestepped any questions AFAIK (especially if you read my rant post) and it is actually you who is sidestepping considering you refuse to give me a better idea of your reads and thoughts. Finally, you didn't have any problem with bizz using meta for her reads ED1 (which in itself is meta) so I don't really see why I shouldn't use meta too.

Iris: The fact that she insists on a BBM lynch is weird. This is meta but, if BBM is scum she'd probably be scum too. Other than that though, more thoughts I suppose, but then we'd be going in circles.

As far as claims go I don't want to claim even if you decide to lynch me. Considering how we've got votes parked on me I don't even think a claim would change anything(people would just say role doesn't tell alignment therefore I'm scum) and say I DO magically survive D1, at least I've outed no info.

Are you serious right now? Find any reason to vote you? I've given oodles and oodles of reasons to vote you, moreso than any other person on your wagon right now technically. Plus I was the first vote on your wagon from way back when so you can't just call me a sheeper. How have I not considered the circumstances behind it? It has nothing to do with the fact that you've been defending yourself WAY more than scumhunting, and that's something I find myself doing as scum which is why I can say that if you were town your ratio would be a lot better. You're not the only person being heavily attacked right now (BBM and Shin are as well, and SB to a lesser extent now but more before) so you could easily look in other directions other than your own wagon. Did I ever say that the AMOUNT of your reads was bad? No, I said their QUALITY was bad. You're also taking things out of context; I said you sidestepped the question that one time by instead of answering it you attacked me for not mentioning JB when I talked about everyone else. I never once refused to give you a better idea of my reads and thoughts seeing as I have added more and more thoughts and reads on you and other players, so this is a lie. There's a big difference between Bizz's use of meta ED1 and your use of meta midD1 because there was more than enough material inthread for you to make better cases than you did/have, whereas Bizz used meta ED1 when there isn't much material at all, so you can't really do much BUT use meta. I'm not saying use of meta = scum so don't misrep, but basing half your reads SOLELY on meta (which I mentioned earlier) isn't quality and it's scummy.

Iris is a miller though so...

This feels more like an excuse not to claim due to a lack of good fakeclaim rather than not wanting to claim for protown reasons. You're like half victimizing yourself (which you've been kinda doing earlier as well) also. Town!Marth usually isn't so wary of claiming.