Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[Prims]

Ironically Levity's case on Obviam was exactly the kind of thing I'd expect scum-Obviam to post so lmao

this is the post where I acknowledge that I read it and thought it looked like Levity was going out of her way to find dumb shit to attack and pad out her case ("Attempt to be helpful."? Really?) when she was really just frustrated with him. seriously Obviam/Levity reads like townies hating on eachother due to personal biases. please do not fight :(

[BBM]

BBM if you go for who everyone else thinks is scum rather than for who YOU think is scum then it's going to be easier for you to blow everything off as "well it was your choice not mine" if they flip town.

And if I go with someone I think is scum and they flip town, then what? I'm trying to get this lynch off my ass, and the way I see it, if who I lynch flips town I'm screwed either way.

[Percivalé]

I don't want people to find him scummy because he's tunneling me/trying to annoy me or whatever and it's not like I thought his content post was all bad or anything, I just think he could be doing a lot more as explained in my bigger post about him

[j00]

Also, this is your reasoning for voting for CR, j00. You say pretty explicitly that her play is bad, but it's not necessarily indicative o her alignment.

I did elaborate in my next post:

I voted CR because she was playing badly, newb or not. I can't tell her alignment because I can't tell if she's legit very terrible or partly feigning ignorance. No one else than n00bs gets away with "I don't know what I'm doing" and it could easily be a cover. She's been fumbling around and panicking, and while I could be wrong I don't think she would be this nervous if she was town opposed to scum.

Thing is the way you jumped on my wagon it sounded like you did it for the sake of a lynch. But the only way a lynch isn't gonna happen is if you decide so. What reason do you have for voting me other than "agreeing with the others"? My CR vote was after your vote on me, so that can't have been part of your initial reason for voting me.

[Aleph]

Starting with this post because bizz is still making shit up and BBM apparently didn't get anything out of my post (what)

wrt to what you're saying to marth, if he scumhunts too hard in other directions he'll not only be missing the possible scum that are all over his nuts, but everyone would just get in his grill for trying to change the subject. Next you say he has no original content and then go on to point out his "attack on JB", who I at least haven't even formed a negative opinion of. You just referenced original content of his right after saying he has none.

Also just to meta super hard because mafia is real life, marth and bbm don't strike me as brave enough to attempt pinning each other as scum even if the option had presented itself.

BBM I'm still leaning toward being town, and considering the possible scumtell you picked up on was...well, from you, it didn't mean much to me. I clearly said that I thought ScumB was trying to be sneaky by posting the votals when he did and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him (and I'm kinda puny so that's not very far!)

I would say that yes, I don't really agree with anything anyone has said against bbm or marth except that any anti-marth things BBM has said feel more genuine. Because he isn't dripping with scum in my eyes.

I'm always gay for prims. Eli too, but he's weird sometimes and it scares me. He's too new and different in my pants.

Everyone can keep insisting that I'm trying to piss off bizz, but it looks more the other way around to me. She's one of those people on SF who tries really hard to make everything I say sound so terrible and has plenty of little girls around her to help out. The only place drama has in a mafia game is for being interpreted and manipulated, so if you're going to make the mistake of bringing it here then I'm going to use it for what it's for. Reading your scumshield for what it is and rallying against you.

So yeah, you're accusing me of trying to anger someone to get them to slip, which not only isn't even remotely close to what I've been doing, but is an accusation coming from someone scummy to begin with (defending someone with weak arguments is scummy and town reading someone is defending them).

Boron if you're not a host and you post votals then I'll assume you're playing. I can't ever remember people who are playing by looking at the player list. I have to get some ideas of who they are in-game and then remember who's playing based on noteworthy things they have (or haven't, if I catch someone lurking) done.

Eli if I'm shitting on someone "indirectly" then you might as well just interpret that as me directly saying they're scum. Insisting I'm posting a lot without really saying anything is what the other scum are doing and it's not gonna work. Either read my posts and interpret them or get called out for ignoring valid points at your convenience (obvscum). YES FOR THE MORONS READING THIS I AM SAYING ELI FUCKED UP I don't know why I have to blatantly say these things. People don't go from being apparently town to apparently mafia, there's a fucking gradient. Bizz for example has scumslipped like crazy and Eli's done this one thing that, granted, might have just been a mistake from having a lot of shit to sift through in my post. I don't explicitly say things like "I think Eli is scum because X" like Bizz does because there's some uncertainty involved (duh) and it's better to tier people you're suspicious of rather than deciding to believe they're in a particular faction.

With that said here's my tier list, from most scum to least

12. Levy (can't get her shit together)

7. SB (can't get levity's shit together)

10. Seregil (can't get her shit together)

13. Mancer (can't get his shit together)

9. Shin (can't be fucked to make a real post)

14. Scorri (similar to Helios, but she's sneaking around more too)

8. Helios (said some disagreeable things, appears to be "missing" details when convenient)

6. Shatter (JB is always mafia. always. okay actually I'm just putting him here in the middle as a gut feeling thing because of how fickle he's being)

3. Prims (Smart guy. Perhaps TOO smart. Has some solid posts, but they're dispersed like he's taking his time to keep them clean)

5. Iris (Lieris is hiding behind her phone a lot)

4. BBM (Not playing so well, but it seems more like he's a victim than a problem)

1. Elie (future husband)

11. Joo (town bad ass (yes I'm biased because of OC basics, whatever))

15. Marth (kind of a dork, definitely a shepherd. Seriously, they're all over him)

2. Obviam [derp]

Voting for people using borrowed reasoning isn't inherently scummy.

People insisted that's what I did and lost their shit over it. Most of the people I quoted who said something I supported had actually done so well after I had formed my thoughts, which I had pretty much done by the time I first posted. Naturally people ignore how long it takes to post posts like these because it would inconvenience their pitiful argument of "oh he voted without posting an info dump, he must not have a good reason". I had more than all of you play the game

I'm right here

get at me

Another thing I didn't like is that Obviam said earlier that meta is always valid and then dismissed Bizz's meta read on Prims by saying "but Prims is too smart for that!", which is the argument against every meta reasoning- that a good player can turn that around against you.

That wasn't an argument against meta, that was an argument against her meta with my own. Swing and a miss.

well one if you're going to vote me when my chances of being lynched today are like 5% (and I'm town) and then refuse to directly address anyone else I'm going to find that scummy idc what you think of that

I think the people with votes on them are town and if we switch to voting someone who's actually suspicious then I'm ahead of the game, so deal with it

Attempt to be helpful.

ok

Didn't really explain why he thought this, just said it and proceeded to talk everyone down. Empty words.

What is there to explain? Everyone was making shitty votes so it looked like extended RVS from the perspective of someone who had just stepped in.

why? No explanation here either.

Why does anyone disdain a wagon? Because it's full of sheep.

Don't just go and say shit without actually reading the thread first.

Except I did read the thread, lol

(also I wasn't fond of the "listen to Prims and Elie they know what they're talking about" because that mindset is antitown in nature; blindly following other players for 'knowing what they're doing' isn't good town play and I don't completely trust anyone in this game atm anyway)

How is it anti-town to point out the people who are playing smart and suggest we keep an eye on them (which, by the way, is the opposite of telling people to blindly follow them)? Most of your scumslips are intentional misunderstandings and you're not helping your case. The point of that post was to make it apparent that they are the players I feel are likely going to determine the outcome of the game and that determining their alliance should take priority. If you think that entails blindly following them then I'll have to note that as another misconception you have about mafia that seems to be interfering with your ability to trace logic.

This rings me too. HE sets apart a line stating "oh don't worry I'm not leaving out the lurkers" but then doesn't actually do anything about it. This is the thing about his play in this game: he keeps saying words but it feels like he could dig a lot deeper than he actually is.

Statistically the odds of lynching mafia day 1 are extremely low, and a large part of that is because the odds of people having accurate reads that soon are extremely low. Ergo the people who are probably actually scum aren't the people at the top of the votals (who, by the way, have had more than one person note that they're being sheeped). So yes, it's important to note that lurkers should be considered, and I'd have reviewed them then but as has been indicated I wasn't familiar with the player list (SORRY BORON OOPS).

If you look at my tier list now though you can see JB among others is higher up than he would be because he seems to be sneaking around.

Not that I don't see scum do this a lot though, and the way he's been addressing BBM also leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth

That was because Thomas had been spying on me reading the thread when I first got here and then ushered me again later in a similar situation. The way he's been addressing me doesn't leave you with a bad taste, but the way I've retorted apparently does because it came from me, and "oh my god everything aleph says is wrong and bullshit", right?

I don't believe this actually lol

Your persistence on me is weird because it's not actually getting anything else done. You gave, like, some opinions on Marth/BBM wagons and opinions on the newbie/OC discussion but there's nothing else you're really doing.

It's weird for me to be persistent against someone who appears more anti-town than anyone else? You're being persistent against me too, doing so poorly and to top it off you've had people defend you either directly or indirectly by focusing attention on marth or BBM using similarly poor arguments. You all just look like one big scumgroup to me. But yeah scumhunting is totally weird, I'll stop doing that and lose on purpose for you.

ok

I kinda want to move on from Obviam now though, I think it's clear why I think he's full of shit and I don't want people tacking on "it's because he's voting you" because it's not. He hasn't actually done anything really noteworthy and it's funny that he thinks he is. Please put your ego away and play the game now.

dat hypocrisy

Dude she's noobtown and lynching her right now gives us barely any info. She's not a priority.

Here's an important concept. CR's pretty up there on my list because of how she jerked when she was caught sheeping, but she appears to be playing as a genuinely new player, so regardless of her faction she has limited power and isn't very threatening. Cue Bizz with some crap about how I've said this without suggesting people worth paying more attention to even though I did

also not too keen on lynching cr because i was one of the few who kinda got her into this game and it would suck to lynch a newb on d1

That's not really how mafurs works. Also I was killed n0 in the first game SF even had so fuck you

Iris, is anyone else other than BBM scummy to you (y/n) and why?

Dodging CR's unexpectedly valid question of why he's so sure she's noob!town. Speaking of which, being unexpectedly valid after making a few screw ups is either a new player improving quickly or a poor player trying to recover from mistakes.

CR: Do you still think Marth is scum? Yes or no. Why was Shin a better vote than Marth as soon as somebody thought your logic behind the Marth vote was sheepy?

Asking for a opinions a lot lately, huh? Where are yours? Remember what I did to you in OC basics? Remember what happened just a few days ago? You're doing it right now.

I don't understand how you guys are just coming up with all of this stuff.

I don't either; in my case I'm actually just channeling the ghost of a much better mafia player

5. Obviam's summary can pretty much be summarised (again) as "I really don't like Bizz." Would like to hear more about his reads on people not called Bizz.

you can have the typical "lern2read" response

Speaking of reading I actually do read every post (at some point) and Bizz said something that reminded me of Helios blatantly claiming his almost unconditional belief in Iris's miller claim. No one should feel that certain about anything at this stage. I wouldn't bet money that even the people at the top of my scum list will flip that way, but then again I don't take shitty bets in general and I've proven in the past that I can really misread people as town.

and Prims has gotten a little better with passage of time.

not really

In fact I'd say his votals were poorly placed as well, like he's trying too hard. Really, I have the impression that townies post votals when they've gathered them not for the convenience of others, but for the convenience of themselves, after which they post their thoughts on those votals in the same post instead of posting just the votals and leaving.

Oh I see I actually hadn't thought about that. I just honestly find you and CR town for the reasons I stated earlier. There's another reason why I'm being nice to you though but tbh it's not really mafia related but a personal thing.

gay4bizz

It's okay I think bizz is pretty cute too when she's not being mean to me.

Town!Marth usually isn't so wary of claiming.

Here's something I wouldn't have known since I haven't played with Marth before (or recently, anyway). It's a shame, but it's true that knowing people from past games improves your ability to read them. However, I'd more agree with prims at this point that you're trying too hard to get a claim out of him.

because they're setting themselves up to distance themselves from me after my flip.

Wait what

Why would people want to distance themselves from you when you flip unless you're mafia

just vibes I've gotten from skimming posts to try and quickly catch up.

skimvibes are usually pretty valid; you process a lot of things subconsciously and come to conclusions your conscious self would second guess based on irrelevant details. Then you later punch yourself for "being right the first time" and regret your decision. Obviously you shouldn't rely on skimvibes, but I usually go by those first and then check if they're valid with a reread. Worst case you're completely wrong and learn what you can improve about your thought process, which you can't really pin down if your thoughts are jumping all over due to "he said this, but wait, she said that, but then again he also said this".

Add in the general attitude of his posts and I think that's where my odd feeling about him is coming from. Not sure if scum or just that I don't like how he plays yet. Will keep you updated.

You're going to hate how I play, that should be pretty clear. I push the limits of indecency because I play the best I can for whatever team I'm on. I once got someone banned from playing mafia because he was my team mate and I threw him under the bus with perfectly valid arguments to get out of being lynched myself. I believed my role was more important to my team and that the town cred I would get from it would keep us alive. He threw a fit and outed that I was mafia and was banned for a month. If he'd just taken a dive our team would have had double night kills and won easily. You can complain that it ruins the fun of the game, but so does dealing with people being butthurt over people playing too well for them to handle.

I play with respect for the game. I feel it's worth the time and effort to try to win and that's why I believe the rules against OC in a NOC game should be enforced, even over the slightest infraction. I'd feel a modkill is too extreme, but Shinori should at least acknowledge that it's bullshit. This same respect causes me to pour effort into winning in innovative ways, even if people will bitch and complain about them (they always do). Oh well, you can't say I didn't try. After all that, I have no strategy involving irritating Bizz. Not once was that ever considered. I think she's a nice lady and don't see any gain from irritating her. She's irritated because she wants to be. I'm not going to stop calling her out for scumslips and let her get away with them just because she's irritated by it. This is a forum game, and what happens in it is going to stay in it as far as I'm concerned. If you don't feel that way...get the fuck out of the game.

retelling the entire game while providing virtually no unique opinions, just sheeping stuff, and saying stuff that wasn't really relevant.

Sheeping what now? I accused you of sheeping buddy. Try again?

"Having played with j00 finally I know he's a pretty rational dude, so it's not surprising he busted in ranting about how shitty the RVS was.", why is this even here?

That's called banter, and it's what people who don't take the game way too seriously do. You all could learn something from it

The CR thinks an SK is in the game thing, I kind of assumed so from opening flavour. Although the bit about her pm is interesting. As for her play overall, I'm not particularly sure on it. I feel like noobscum would be paranoid like she is (I know I was in my first scum game)

Not all noob!scum play the same. Smart noob!scum probably try to coast. CR's being flaky though so she's probably not that type of player.

sooooo

so yeah, you need to work on your communication skills. This was a really shitty post.

Okay I just caught up and I'm seeing some ridiculous shit. BBM had that weird thing about people distancing from him and now he's claiming a scary role to make people piss themselves into not voting for him. Helios and Prims busted in and got a claim out of j00 and I'm going to call BBM's bluff.

##Unvote, ##Vote: BBM

I'm going to correctly guess that everyone's infatuation with bizz is helping them ignore her poor play.

[Aleph]

just to pre-empt the idiots, yes, I advocated town!BBM at the top of my post only to vote him by the end. If you'll notice the post is long as fuck and a lot of information was gained over the course of making it that you should expect to change my opinions about things.

[Percivalé]

I'm not irritated .,.,.,.,., kind of amused actually

give me a bit to read this thing

[Shinori]

(7) BBM: Bizz, Iris, Elieson, Shin, Prims, J00, Aleph

(3) Bluedoom: Helios, Mancer, CR

(3) j00: scorri, BBM, SB

(1) CR: Bluedoom

(1) Shin: JB

Should be right.

About 2 hours and 40 minutes left in phase.

[Percivalé]

Actually to be honest I'm really tired of people accusing me of personal vendettas in this game instead of playing the game/people defending me just because I'm me so I think I'm going to withdraw. It's making me really uncomfortable and kind of embarrassed.

[Shinori]

Need a sub for levy. First person to pm me gets it.

[Prims]

RE: Obviam WoT: Posting votals because they were convenient for myself was exactly what I did. I literally only post votals when it's been ages since the mod has done it and I can't keep up, regardless of alignment (I'm a visual learner and having votals to use as a reference are useful to me). Also this preceded a contentpost from me so yeah.

I obviously do have an opinion on CR and other players! I'm asking CR questions because that way I have a chance to read her better and she can explain herself if she's town. I wrote a post with a bunch of opinions right before that, too.

[Prims]

Actually to be honest I'm really tired of people accusing me of personal vendettas in this game instead of playing the game/people defending me just because I'm me so I think I'm going to withdraw. It's making me really uncomfortable and kind of embarrassed.

For fuck's sake.

Well Levity's replacement is scum I guess (source: every Levity scumgame ever)

[scorri]

This is mostly unrelated to the game, just a thing I want to say.

]quote]You're going to hate how I play, that should be pretty clear. I push the limits of indecency because I play the best I can for whatever team I'm on. I once got someone banned from playing mafia because he was my team mate and I threw him under the bus with perfectly valid arguments to get out of being lynched myself. I believed my role was more important to my team and that the town cred I would get from it would keep us alive. He threw a fit and outed that I was mafia and was banned for a month. If he'd just taken a dive our team would have had double night kills and won easily. You can complain that it ruins the fun of the game, but so does dealing with people being butthurt over people playing too well for them to handle.

I play with respect for the game. I feel it's worth the time and effort to try to win and that's why I believe the rules against OC in a NOC game should be enforced, even over the slightest infraction. I'd feel a modkill is too extreme, but Shinori should at least acknowledge that it's bullshit. This same respect causes me to pour effort into winning in innovative ways, even if people will bitch and complain about them (they always do). Oh well, you can't say I didn't try. After all that, I have no strategy involving irritating Bizz. Not once was that ever considered. I think she's a nice lady and don't see any gain from irritating her. She's irritated because she wants to be. I'm not going to stop calling her out for scumslips and let her get away with them just because she's irritated by it. This is a forum game, and what happens in it is going to stay in it as far as I'm concerned. If you don't feel that way...get the fuck out of the game.

Thank you for this. Like actually. This makes me feel better about your playing style if nothing else and I'll try to keep it in mind as the game continues.

[Percivalé]

obviam I was never irritated at you I'm irritated at everyone else.

Prims put the fucking meta away, I could have actually mostly cleared myself by claiming and I could totally claim right now before subbing out but that'd be dumb and I don't feel like it.

[Percivalé]

anyway yeah I'm just tired of people being nice to me because I'm me and people discrediting my suspicion on Obviam as a personal thing and I'm tired of special treatment it's really aggravating and I'm tired of people jumping at my defense when I'm not even really irritated! it just makes me really uncomfortable and make me feel like I'm impeding this game's progress and contrary to popular belief I don't like this kind of attention and I don't like that people can use "she's just mad/irritated" as a reason to discredit who I think is scum so I'm out

[Prims]

If you're town then why are you subbing out over a minor frustration? Nothing in this game has been on the level of a personal attack and to my memory these are the sort of excuses you use to stop playing a game when you're scum. It's disrespectful to the mod and playerlist etc etc etc I'm tired of repeating this shit every time there's a game where Rapier or somebody subs out because "hurr durr I don't feel like playing anymore".

[Prims]

cut by a post

[BBM]

Mafia want to distance themselves from town flips because they don't want to look like they were the ones to push the mislynch.

Also, it's not a bluff, so... shrug, whatever. I'm going to flip a coin and lynch either j00 or Shin.

And Bizz please don't sub out over something like this. The more times you do it the more people are going to think that you let personal things get in the way of your game. The way to show them that they're wrong is to continue the game, not to sub out.

Also, Bizz's meta is subbing out as scum after being disinterested and not doing anything for a few days. Whatever you say about her game, she didn't do it here.

[Prims]

Also, Bizz's meta is subbing out as scum after being disinterested and not doing anything for a few days. Whatever you say about her game, she didn't do it here.

Uuugh I suppose that's true. I do feel like Levity pretty much just scumslipped that she knows the people defending her / assuming shit based on past grudges are all town though, otherwise she'd have no reason to believe they weren't just scum being dishonest. But there's her softclaim so IDK

Regardless of how I'm reading her replacement request I think it's is a bullshit reason to sub out. She is literally the only person who thinks she's "impeding the game", unless Obviam said mean things to her in the scum quicktopic or something.

Also what the fuck flipping a coin? That's bullshit and resolves you from taking responsibility should the player you didn't pick flip scum later. Lynch the one you think is scummier.

[Percivalé]

I don't want to clog up this thread with more shit so this is my last post. If you want to talk to me about this you may do so in private because this is also really embarrassing.

This isn't just a 'personal thing,' it's something a lot of people here are guilty of doing and exactly why I like playing anon games a lot more. But it seems like throughout this game people have been accusing me of being upset or irritated, only voting who's suspicious of me because I 'hate them' for daring to suspect me, and then not treating my suspicion against Obviam seriously because we have a personal vendetta or something. My experiment this game was that I would try to avoid being emotionally affected by people but it's moot if people are just going to jump to my meta from games that are long over and not even really let me improve. Plus I seriously don't like special treatment either and the accusations that people are only suspicious of Obviam because he's 'irritated' me just makes it even worse. It makes me feel like I'm only a detriment to town discussion because people have to hold my hand throughout the game and defend me from bullies or whatever and that I'm not allowed to have my own opinions.

I'm not going to claim or do anything rash over this. I'm going to sub out now and this is over. Don't post in here with "no bizz don't go!!" or whatever, just continue playing, please. thanks.

[Aleph]

BBM, you picked a very strange way of wording what you said and I Do Not Think That Word Means What You Think It Means wrt to "distancing".

I think Bizz is misinterpreting the severity of what people are saying (again) and have the general impression that's she's way too easily stressed. I'll admit I'm disappointed that she's subbing out but at least maybe she'll feel better. Sure you don't want to reconsider bizzu?

also lol @ prims for dumping on bizz with metagame ASAP, like he thinks he's me or something.

[j00]

I get that mafia is srs bsns but people need to relax a little

I mean I'm about to get lynched by the flip of a coin but I'm still all :D

[BBM]

can I get a claim from Shin or would that be rolefishing? Because I can't really make a proper decision without it and I don't want to shoot a PR..

[j00]

Well, it's up to him but I guess he's in as much danger of getting lynched as I am.

I still don't get your reasons for lynching me though

[Shinori]

Hour and a half left.

Still need a sub for levy.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Shinori