Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[MancerNecro]

I don't like the Helios vs Bluedoom argument. It really feels to me that Bluedoom is being oversensitive to Helios building a case on him. I don't think that Helios is tunneling on you, because he has posted as many reads on other players as on you. What I think is weird that you only notice the cases that Helios has built against you, which I think is really scum being overly sensitive to himself getting lynched.

I'm going to note this down in addition to the scum reads that I have had noted down from Day 1.

[MancerNecro]

I also dislike how, in this post, Bluedoom has said that he does not solely use meta to find players scummy, yet is able to pick up 3 examples of himself solely using meta on other players (Shin, myself and Levity). He gives reasons to dumb down the significance and impact of his solely meta votes/reads on us. While Shin and Levity are not in the game anymore, and I was inactive, I actually think that you having used solely meta on them is a significant and important point. There are no excuses for this, and "A, B and C are inactive or not in the game anymore" is like waving and flagging your own point and reads away; like you are trying to dismiss your own points and distance yourself from us.

##Unvote: j00 because while I feel that you might be scum slipping, I think that Bluedoom is acting horribly and I want him to explain all of the actions that he has made. j00, you do still have to respond to my point you scum slipping then deciding to cover up your own mistake though.

##Vote: Bluedoom

I've already explained this.

[MancerNecro]

I want to mention I don't like Bluedoom's votehop over to JB. I feel he has way more of a case and reason to suspect Helios than JB yet is easily shifting his vote over to JB. His subsequent votehop over to CR doesn't bode well for him either.

I highly do not agree with the view that CR might be the SK. I see that it is all based off of speculations and a hypothetical situation. Do all of you voting for CR actually have some other concrete, non-speculation, vote on CR?

I don't think that it is safe to vote for someone who might be the SK when all of you don't really have any reason to believe so apart from speculations. This is especially so in a potential MyLo situation. You guys should be lynching someone who you know is scum, like for example, Bluedoom. I'd also like to say that Bluedoom immediately jumping over to CR is bad and scummy and only solidifies my read on him.

[MancerNecro]

Oh yeah I forgot to do this in my last post.

##Unvote

##Vote SB

Reasons given already. Time's running out and I think I'm the only person who still finds Marth scummy, so keeping my vote on him is a waste.

I don't see the case on SB, or how strong it is. Can you reiterate the case for me?

I also think that this jump might be a little opportunistic. You might or might not be Marth's scum buddy who had tried to spark off an argument with him to stagnate discussion and place both of you at the centre of all the discussions in town.

[Bluedoom]

Ok I probably won't be there at deadline and at this rate we won't have a proper lynch.

##Unvote ##Vote: SB

[MancerNecro]

Ok I probably won't be there at deadline and at this rate we won't have a proper lynch.

##Unvote ##Vote: SB

Bluedoom's third vote hop this phase with no good reasonings.

[MancerNecro]

How long more till phase end?

[j00]

j00 comes out as the most suspicious from that speculation, because of how he is "Multifaction" then "I just saw potential MyLo, so maybe not" thing might be him trying to take back what he has let slip about the setup. It could also be that he is scum and his scum buddies told him about his slip and asked him to correct himself or something.

Wait, you seriously think this was a slip? I was genuinely wondering about the setup and if I actually knew if it really was multifaction I'm not stupid enough to out that in the thread. I was thinking along the lines of OC basics for a moment since there were 5 anti-town in that game too.

Speaking about scumslips

Guys we lynch who we think is scum not who we think is a third party. Unless there's SOLID EVIDENCE that CR is an SK, we should lynch who we actually think is town.

guys Helios is totally scum this is proof

[spoiler=I'll post more reads after dinner right now here's the tunnel on SB and reason for vote]

My case on SB is that he seems really evasive, if you check his ISO all his posts save one are about three lines long and explains very little about his votes. Many of his posts are quotes and questions such as "why is that scummy", "what is your reasoning behind this" and yet he himself barely explains his own reasoning. His longest posts are his votes and said votes were on the bandwagons for the moment. His vote on Marth was really early and his reasoning was

He's being mostly unhelpful right now, coasting saying it's "too early to get good reads" so I feel like he's trying to sit back and coast. All his last post did was defend himself. Also voting someone for a votehop in RVS isn't really scummy.

He didn't elaborate and his vote stayed for a long time before he unvoted, without other explanation than

Ok, I'm not sure how I feel about Marth right now. Still scumreading him, but not to the extent I was yesterday

and then switched to me, with reasoning

Looking at j00, I felt like with a couple of his posts he's been trying to flesh it out a lot to make it look like he's contributing more, and voted me when I tried to generate discussion. He jumped on me and parked it all game rather than going for one of the sheep. The whole "he's not scummier, I just found him more suspicious" part kind of confuses me a little bit. Elaborate please? I also find the first line of his first post a bit strange: "This has been pretty silly, RVS got half-serious immediately and so did the votes.", this sounds almost like you'd have prefer to still be in RVS. I could probably lynch him, moreso than anyone else I've read at this point.

His vote on me is probably his best explained post in this game, but his reason is mainly for the post I made at the beginning of the game. If he found that scummy he had plenty of chances earlier to vote me, and it seemed very opportunistic to vote only when my wagon was starting to roll.

[spoiler=Setup speculation is bad I know but potential mylo what the hell] About the setup, potential mylo implies that a mislynch today could lead to parity with scum. If we mislynch and there are two town deaths at night, we're down to 5 town 5 antitown. For there to be parity like this there must be 5 scum and no ITP or vigs left. Then there can't be a SK and three townies, including a potential vig must die for scum to win.

Another possible situation is that three kills are possible, with scum, SK and vig having one each, which at worst would cause 4 townie deaths, bringing the count down to 4/4/1. I don't think this would be potential mylo without a vig if there's 4 scum 1 SK.

Of course, since setup speculation is not something we should delve on too much it could be roles like cult or something that further decreases town count.

But considering we've had one mislynch and are already in mylo, I'm wondering if there's a SK at all. If there's three killing roles, it'd would have been possible for the count to have dropped to 6/4/1 in this phase already, meaning we could have had lylo at D2 which is ridiculous in regards to balance.

Anyway my point is that we should focus on lynching scum today because we know very little about the potential ITP or if there even is one.

[Ciarre]

Helios has given very good explanations, and I feel he got the better of the exchange with Marth. He's defending CR quite a bit, though, labelling her as noobtown earlier, then saying SK is more dangerous to mafia even though we're in potential MYLO. It doesn't mean much unless CR flips scum, though.

How has Marth been defending me in any way?

He seems way too eager to get any sort of lynch off, regardless of who it is.

[scorri]

Mancer: Well... I highly doubt I'd claim there was a redirect in the game if I didn't have solid proof for it...

##Unvote

Blah, I guess I just have different views on how to deal with a potential SK. I'll try and get a longer post up tonight, but my current suspicions are aimed at JB and slightly less so j00.

[Shinori]

Prods have gone out to a few people.

Votals in about 10 minutes ish.

[Helios]

@j00: Dammit I meant scum in that quote not town. I even said "lynch scum" later buuut you know it was 2 AM, it was a long ass post, and I was tired man.

@CR: You actually made a good observation on Marth there. It really does seem like he's willing to lynch anyone right now with all the vote switches. The first hop is understandable since people don't find me scummy except him an Obviam, but the second one ehh not so much.

@Mancer: Agree with most of your points made. Disagree that setup speculation = scum in this case solely because people only started speculating it when Shin flipped and said that there were only 10 townies in the game. Add that in with how we're all of a sudden in potential MYLO and people can't help but to wonder as to why. So the information being used for this setup spec is only using the information given to us inthread and doesn't really seem like it'd be scummy. Null if anything.

Also yeah we really need to get people in here and do something.

[Prims]

Seregil where the h*ck are your votes, and opinions

can we policy lynch mancer for his new avatar

[Helios]

Seregil where the h*ck are your votes, and opinions

can we policy lynch mancer for his new avatar

This probably further proves that she's playing by herself and not with the help of others.

Wtf is it supposed to even be

[charlie_]

Been busy these past few days with studying and family, and the free time I did have didn't usually have a computer around, and I generally don't like doing large posts on my phone in case it explodes. Because of my inactivity, a lot of what I wanted to say had already been said, and it did reflect my true opinion on players. I avoided talking about BBM because I didn't know what to make of him and I didn't want to waste time talking about an indecisive read, although I was leaning scum for the record. I went for Marth earlygame because it was an easy way to get discussion flowing, and little else was happening so I pursued it.

I'd assume potential MYLO assumes a misfiring vig, or an unclaimed PGO or something, so we should be safe.

Going through various ISOs...

[spoiler=JB]

but nobody fears votes in rvs

This feels kind of like JB is trying to dismiss early discussion, while staying totally neutral on the subject.

1. there's like 6 scum members? ok. This first part feels very... off to me, not sure how to word it.

This feels like it could be a scumtell since we're apparently in MYLO and this kind of suggests that the scumteam is pretty big.

too much meta is unhealthy for everyone

I don't like how JB dismisses a chunk of Marth's post with just this, even though I can agree with basing reads off of meta isn't a great idea, but I'll say honestly that I don't think other scum constantly hold the noobscum's hand every step of the way like most people seem to be assuming.

also not too keen on lynching cr because i was one of the few who kinda got her into this game and it would suck to lynch a newb on d1

This contradicts his later vote for Shin, and also...

4. Getting the noobtown vibes from CR too in the sense that it feels as though she has no idea what she's doing and she's defending herself pretty hard. The only argument I can really see for CR being maf is that she's doing pretty decently IMO for a first-time player, but even then that's really shaky reasoning.

JB never provides a solid argument for why CR is town, just using noobmeta, which he earlier told off Marth for doing.

Decent chance at being scum.

[spoiler=Aleph]

more people need to start existing (jb, scorri, j00). current scumreads are shin (more gut than anything) and marth.

He mentioned Shin earlier, but called it a gut read since he didn't want to get tied down to it.

Haven't reread the thread yet (just woke up whee) but here's some things

- newbs are pretty transparent and their slips are more prevalent, so if you're suspicious of one you're probably right. YMMV ofc

- There is no such thing as too much meta.

- As a corollary, JB is a short little shrimpy dork who is always wrong always. ALWAYS

- Bizz is scum. (omg bizz u suck)

That said CR seems intelligent and probably wouldn't make the same mistakes most new players would so whatever.

wtf is tunneling, is that what you nerds call it when someone rides your ass about unimportant shit to make you say stupid stuff? Wouldn't it make more sense to aggro someone who's more susceptible (like bizzu)

Is there anyone that hasn't voted? I noticed the votals stopped including non voters but I wasn't sure if it was because those people finally voted.

This post is pretty much completely useless when you notice the bold. Active lurking at it's finest.

Not quoting this one in it's entirety since it's super long, but looking at it I see some flaws...

Marth jumps on SB's shit for being terrible a bit after and I have to agree so far.

Here is a problem I have with a lot this post, along with the fact most of it is a retelling of the game with short comments. The vagueness, and lack of justification in some places like this one.

Regarding Shin's early activity, I'd guess he's new enough to not have a feel for the pace of SF mafia and simply didn't realize how late he was.

---

Not sure why Iris didn't come back and edit her post to bold her vote. Something important like that probably would have been granted an exception by the host.

Stuff like this seem like an attempt to flesh out the post without actually having to contribute anything.

BBM rips on CR for agreeing with mancer too easily, which is totally valid because agreeing with mancer is near impossible. He is just not an agreeable dude. In general, I've been getting town vibes from BBM and Marth and scummy feelings from the people targeting them.

First off, insulting Mancer for no reason, then more vague sweeping statements that aren't backed up with anything,

Having played with j00 finally I know he's a pretty rational dude, so it's not surprising he busted in ranting about how shitty the RVS was.

How is this at all relevant to his alignment? This is just a waste of space.

A bit later BBM puts a solid vote on Shin. All I want to say about this is that if we decide on likely scum to vote for, we can't have our vote divided. I don't think Shin is near scummy enough to warrant being voted for yet. I'd recommend voting for someone more flagrant. If you want to propose someone that isn't someone I would agree with then you'll need to explain why they're so much worse, because at the moment I see plenty of candidates scummier than Shin (granted, he's not doing so well for himself).

This feels like he's waffling on Shin, saying "he's not great but there are a lot of people who are worse than him", again with no specification.

Some people have noticed that CR mentioned getting SK vibes. That does seem a bit ridiculous, like she might know something she shouldn't. Unlike trying to distract people with a miller claim by Iris, pointing out that CR mentioned an SK is actually worth paying attention to. Given that she's supposedly new I can't imagine why she'd say something like that unless she's either in cahoots or is completely fumbling around. Actually, I might have to retract my comment about her seeming smart, because she might be in general, but apparently not when it comes to mafia.

Um... trying to distract people? What? People claim Miller as town so the cops don't waste time scanning them and get a false result.

Ok just looking at Aleph's ISO for any longer makes my head hurt but there's still more which I may revisit later.

Definitely leaning scum.

For now, until I read more people (since I've been doing this for like an hour)

##Vote: Aleph

I still have plans to read up on j00, Marth and possibly some others.

[charlie_]

Shinori how long is the extension?

[Prims]

I'd also like votals as well, too lazy to do it myself.

[scorri]

##Vote:Shatter

Reasons~

-Jumped on the Marth wagon for basically the same reasons as other people and really did nothing to back them up as seen in post #70

-Pokes new people for opinions when giving very few of his own

-lots of random "filler" one liner posts

-Then there was that vote hope to shin... He had said that he had a gut read on Shin, but that was it. He was saying he had a stronger read on Marth and then out of no where jumped to Shin because... why? Because BBM decided to switch to j00 instead of Shin because more people supported a j00 lynch. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I continue to find this jump really odd. It just doesn't make any sense to me to jump from a scum read he's had for the whole day basically to a gut read just because one person decided to switch off the gut read.

-That last bit combined with the fact that the person JB was trying to get the lynch off of then decided to track him that night because he was less active and not receiving a lot of attention when there were quite a few less active people people (myself included) who had gotten basically no attention. Like Iris. Something just doesn't sit right with the interactions between these two.

[scorri]

Also, votals that should be right:

Helios[1]: Marth, Aleph

Marth[1]: Helios, Mancer

SB[4]: j00, Helios, Elieson, Marth

Iris/Baldrick[1]: Prims

Shatter[1]: Marth, scorri

CR[0]: scorri, Marth

j00[0]: Mancer

Aleph[2]: SB, Baldrick

Not Voting: Straw, Shatter,j00

[spoiler=Voting History]

Baldrick: Aleph

Mancer:j00-->Marth

Marth: Helios-->Shatter-->CR-->SB

Helios: Marth-->SB

Prims: Iris

j00: SB

Aleph: Helios

scorri: CR-->Shatter

Elieson: SB

SB: Aleph

New phase end is January 3rd at 8pm CST.

[Shinori]

I was in the process of doing votals and i had to help my dad with some stuff. Sorry.

Thanks for that scorri!

[Baldrick]

I have to go work for a few hours so you get bullet points.

• From what BBM said, I thought he was serious. He even implied he thought it was scummy at the time. He just never followed it up because of reasons.
  
• In that case, Marth would probably still victimise himself if he's town, so I don't think you can read much into it.
  
• Your case on j00 seems a bit spur of the moment. Like you just wanted to suspect someone else before you talked about Marth.
  
• CR I was saying Helios was defending you, not Marth.
  
• SB's last post seems a little better than what he put up before, and would like to see more of the same. It's more helpful than interrogating people. I might have liked his lynch before, but not anymore.
  

[Baldrick]

The first three points are in reply to Mancer, btw

[Ciarre]

• CR I was saying Helios was defending you, not Marth.

oh. welp.

So far my biggest suspicion is on Marth, because he was being way too jumpy this phase, and even the last day phase. Like when he suddenly switched votes onto me for the sake of getting a lynch off. Why is it so urgent to you that we have to lynch /someone/, especially in MYLO?

gonna read through stuff in depth tomorrow I guess 'cause I'm tired

##Vote: Marth

[MancerNecro]

Is "No Lynch" a viable voting option? If it is, we might want to consider "No Lynch"ing this phase just to avoid the mislynch.

[Helios]

Wait since when was Baldrick in this game?

• SB's last post seems a little better than what he put up before, and would like to see more of the same. It's more helpful than interrogating people. I might have liked his lynch before, but not anymore.

This looks like an attempt at distancing which I don't really like. You've been really unmemorable Baldrick and if SB flips scum I think we should start to focus more on you.

So far my biggest suspicion is on Marth, because he was being way too jumpy this phase, and even the last day phase. Like when he suddenly switched votes onto me for the sake of getting a lynch off. Why is it so urgent to you that we have to lynch /someone/, especially in MYLO?

Well people don't want this game to end in a universal loss so there's that.

Is "No Lynch" a viable voting option? If it is, we might want to consider "No Lynch"ing this phase just to avoid the mislynch.

Or if we mislynch then the vig simply doesn't shoot and town will be fine. The thing is we really need a flip on one of the bigger scumspecs if we're going to progress things any further otherwise we're just going to be in the same exact spot next day phase if the cop doesn't catch scum. I advise that we lynch someone at least; town needs the info.