Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[Grace]

not playing

Wait since when was Baldrick in this game?

Baldrick has been subbed in for Iris.

not playing

[Bluedoom]

Ok I could've sworn I thought phase end would've happened a few hours ago. So we have another day huh?

First off do we even HAVE a vig? I'm thinking one of SK/vig exists, not both cuz if everything bad happens we're at 4/4/1 so early. And someone mentioned PGO- they would've claimed early in that case or hinted it and mafia PGO is just broken.

@SB: Your first quote in the Obviam spoiler is actually what JB said. You also have an opinion about Obviam's first post (the summary basically) so what are your opinions on his later posts?

[Helios]

Ok I could've sworn I thought phase end would've happened a few hours ago. So we have another day huh?

First off do we even HAVE a vig? I'm thinking one of SK/vig exists, not both cuz if everything bad happens we're at 4/4/1 so early. And someone mentioned PGO- they would've claimed early in that case or hinted it and mafia PGO is just broken.

@SB: Your first quote in the Obviam spoiler is actually what JB said. You also have an opinion about Obviam's first post (the summary basically) so what are your opinions on his later posts?

Yeah we got an extension because you and I pretty much controlled most of the phase with our argument lol.

Well it's 8/5 or 8/4/1 right now. If we mislynch, there still needs to be two or three kills in order to end this game. Unless mafia gets two shots somehow (which I doubt) there needs to be some vig shooting a townie in order to end the game. So either way there's def a vig.

Would you rather lynch SB or JB?

[scorri]

mafia PGO is just broken

It's happened before.

So right,

[spoiler=current votals]

Helios[1]: Marth, Aleph

Marth[2]: Helios, Mancer, CR

SB[4]: j00, Helios, Elieson, Marth

Iris/Baldrick[1]: Prims

Shatter[1]: Marth, scorri

CR[0]: scorri, Marth

j00[0]: Mancer

Aleph[2]: SB, Baldrick

Not Voting: Straw, Shatter,j00

Straw basically hasn't existed at all (see Pokemon mafia), but Shatter was just existing and I'm kinda annoyed he hasn't dropped in to at least vote. Currently, SB has the most votes with 4. We need 8 votes on someone to lynch them. Now, there's a post that I'm not quite sure I like.

Well it's 8/5 or 8/4/1 right now. If we mislynch, there still needs to be two or three kills in order to end this game. Unless mafia gets two shots somehow (which I doubt) there needs to be some vig shooting a townie in order to end the game. So either way there's def a vig.

Would you rather lynch SB or JB?

Two things: We've discussed the fact that there's possibly a SK. Now, why are you so suddenly sure that there needs to be a vig? I dunno, just seems odd to me.

Second, why all of a sudden are you narrowing they lynch down to just JB/SB? I'm the only person voting JB, we still have something like 21 hours, and there are other people with multiple votes. Seems strange to me that you're suddenly reducing the field to just two.

[Bluedoom]

Uh, Helios. If you insist there IS a vig in his setup then we can actually AFFORD a mislynch. What I mean to say is lynching CR isn't even a bad idea because she screams SK and even if it ends up in a mislynch the vig can just idle and we'll be at LYLO. Either ways I'm pretty sure there's a very good chance the scumreads I've state will flip scum.

My preference is JB> SB but we need majority for a lynch and at the current rate if I voted JB we'll probably never gonna lynch anyone. And reasons for JB being scum is pretty much whatever Scorri says(I believe she has a few more points than me I think which I never noticed)

[Bluedoom]

Anyway Prims I'm not sure why you voted Iris/Baldrick because the reasoning for that vote can be used on many others too. Iris hasn't really existed in any case. What are your thoughts on Baldrick's new content?

[MancerNecro]

I don't see how CR screams SK? Bluedoom, you seem more and more like scum that is just dying to push a mislynch off onto anyone to help your faction win.

If you want to use words like "CR screams SK", might I ask that you bring out some of your own reads and evidence rather than echoing others' points.

##Smite: Bluedoom[/red] (I've already voted him, so I'm using "##Smite" to emphasise that I just found him even scummier)

You are trying to push easy mislynches onto players by echoing on others' reasons and egging all the players into jumping on wagons without any worthwhile reasoning. Your votehopping from Helios to SB to CR to JB to CR this phase proves it as you've literally jumped onto all of the wagons this phase by echoing others' reasons or with a "I don't want Universal Loss to happen" excuse.

[MancerNecro]

I don't see how CR screams SK? Bluedoom, you seem more and more like scum that is just dying to push a mislynch off onto anyone to help your faction win.

If you want to use words like "CR screams SK", might I ask that you bring out some of your own reads and evidence rather than echoing others' points.

##Smite: Bluedoom (I've already voted him, so I'm using "##Smite" to emphasise that I just found him even scummier)

You are trying to push easy mislynches onto players by echoing on others' reasons and egging all the players into jumping on wagons without any worthwhile reasoning. Your votehopping from Helios to SB to CR to JB to CR this phase proves it as you've literally jumped onto all of the wagons this phase by echoing others' reasons or with a "I don't want Universal Loss to happen" excuse.

Reposting this because I messed up my formatting in there.

[Bluedoom]

Yeah if you want a universal loss I have many options I could use to do that. rofl

My hop from Helios to JB was reasonable because no one was agreeing with my read on Helios(bar Obviam) so it feels like a lost cause. JB was next on my scumdar list so I voted him. But then I saw scorri's point about CR and I felt lynching a more probable SK was a better idea. And my hop to SB was because I thought phase ended today and we needed a majority otherwise universal loss would occur( or if not, because I'm unsure if D1 was an exception, then we'd have a tie).

I'm echoing others? Oh please, anything but that, because this word is being used against me annoyingly. If I recall correctly, other than Bizz, I was one of the first to get wary of CR saying she got 'SK vibes form Shin' (hence I immediately revised my noobtown opinion on her to noob!SK('She mentioned SK I'm wary of her') even if it was a bit unclear but people dislike re-reading now don't they?) I in fact voted CR late D1 because of that reasoning and you tell me I'm echoing? lolwhat? I haven't been egging anyone to lynch people and if I've slightly done that, it would be against CR(and that is because pulling the SK card out of nowhere IS real scummy.) Helios is an obvious argument though, I won't deny it.

If you're going to accuse me of echoing and doing it in a scummy manner, provide instances.

[Helios]

It's happened before.

Straw basically hasn't existed at all (see Pokemon mafia), but Shatter was just existing and I'm kinda annoyed he hasn't dropped in to at least vote. Currently, SB has the most votes with 4. We need 8 votes on someone to lynch them. Now, there's a post that I'm not quite sure I like.

Two things: We've discussed the fact that there's possibly a SK. Now, why are you so suddenly sure that there needs to be a vig? I dunno, just seems odd to me.

Second, why all of a sudden are you narrowing they lynch down to just JB/SB? I'm the only person voting JB, we still have something like 21 hours, and there are other people with multiple votes. Seems strange to me that you're suddenly reducing the field to just two.

I have this feeling that if there was a PGO in this game, town or mafia, they would have claimed D1 like they always do. I doubt that's the reason why we're in potential MYLO right now.

Straw is getting by because of Bizz looking extremely townie, and he hasn't existed for like 2 days anyway. Agree that it's dumb JB didn't vote someone though.

It's not odd at all if you do the math, it's actually pretty clear. I'll even walk you through it. Whether it's 8/5 or 8/4/1, if we mislynch it is then 7/5 or 7/4/1. The mafia kill by itself will make it 6/5 or 6/4/1. If there's an SK and he kills a townie, it is then 5/4/1. As you can probably tell, this means that we'd have a D3, which means it's not MYLO at all. But how can that be if the mod announced MYLO? That means there must be a vig.

Who ever said I narrowed it down to SB and JB simply because I asked Marth who he'd prefer to lynch out of his two main scumspecs (which are JB and SB) since his vote hop from JB to SB was really bad.

Getting some bad vibes out of this post from you scorri since you're trying to twist a normal post into looking scummy. Not to mention you had this weird scumvibe from me D1 and then after you read through the thread you all of a sudden dropped it. Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but it's like you just want me to be lynched for no reason.

Uh, Helios. If you insist there IS a vig in his setup then we can actually AFFORD a mislynch. What I mean to say is lynching CR isn't even a bad idea because she screams SK and even if it ends up in a mislynch the vig can just idle and we'll be at LYLO. Either ways I'm pretty sure there's a very good chance the scumreads I've state will flip scum.

My preference is JB> SB but we need majority for a lynch and at the current rate if I voted JB we'll probably never gonna lynch anyone. And reasons for JB being scum is pretty much whatever Scorri says(I believe she has a few more points than me I think which I never noticed)

It's not really that I'm insisting there must be one, there MUST be one otherwise we wouldn't be in potential MYLO. And you're pretty much just slipping that you know this is going to be a mislynch lol. Just because we can afford a mislynch technically doesn't mean that we should actually mislynch.

Except not really because if you kept your vote on JB there'd be two votes and then there'd only be 3 votes on SB, with about 20 hours left in the phase. That's why I agree with Mancer that this votehop is bad.

@Mancer: I don't think Marth actually voted CR this phase, but he just thinks that she's going to flip SK and we should lynch a possible SK instead probable scum.

[scorri]

Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but it's like you just want me to be lynched for no reason.

.. Yes, I'm totally trying to get you lynched. Which is why my vote is on you right now. ... Oh, wait, that's odd. My vote *isn't* on you. And in fact I never said I wanted you lynched. Or that I found you scummy. Instead, I said that I found a post you made odd. There's a difference. Nice little twisting of my words right there. And please. If I wanted you lynched, it wouldn't be for no reason and it wouldn't be based off of just one post. But, instead, all I've really said about you is that I got a gut odd reading from you after skimming the thread but then when I went back and reread I didn't see it as much so I dropped it. Seems like you're being awfully paranoid right now.

[scorri]

I don't think Marth actually voted CR this phase

Marth: Helios-->Shatter-->CR-->SB

Just saying.

[Bluedoom]

Guys we lynch who we think is scum not who we think is a third party. Unless there's SOLID EVIDENCE that CR is an SK, we should lynch who we actually think is town. This actually looks more scummy than protown because of how much more of a threat SK is to scum than town since an accidental shot on a buddy hurts lowers the chances of mafia winning the game. So yeah I'm agreeing with Prims and Obviam here and reiterating what they said. Lynch who you think is scum.

Bold implies that she could flip town and I was arguing keeping in mind your train of thought as to what we could do if that did happen. Don't twist my statements into "You KNOW she will flip town" when you could very well imply the same.

Btw I don't understand how wanting to lynch an anti-town member is anti-town in anyway. Yeah sure they can hit scum but you want to play Russian Roulette?

Btw Helios if you dislike my votehop so bad why aren't you voting me? It'd just make SB and I tie for votes at this point but I don't see you doing that. I mean if you think 2 cs 3 is ok, surely 3 vs 3 is?

[Bluedoom]

Ftr you will never have SOLID EVIDENCE on anyone for them being anti-town unless its a cop report(and even then you need to ascertain if its legit or not). So honestly I see no difference between lynching SK or Scum because we're STILL lynching anti-town.

[Helios]

.. Yes, I'm totally trying to get you lynched. Which is why my vote is on you right now. ... Oh, wait, that's odd. My vote *isn't* on you. And in fact I never said I wanted you lynched. Or that I found you scummy. Instead, I said that I found a post you made odd. There's a difference. Nice little twisting of my words right there. And please. If I wanted you lynched, it wouldn't be for no reason and it wouldn't be based off of just one post. But, instead, all I've really said about you is that I got a gut odd reading from you after skimming the thread but then when I went back and reread I didn't see it as much so I dropped it. Seems like you're being awfully paranoid right now.

It's not even that I'm being paranoid, it's just an observation I made. You don't have to vote someone to find them scummy, and you don't necessarily need to spell out "I think you're scummy" to say you think someone is scummy. Implying is still a thing. It's more like starting a basis for a read that you'll work on later. Again, I said that I might be looking into it too much, and that it was just an observation. Take it as you will.

Just saying.

Oh yeah he voted CR after you voted her and then jumped onto SB when it looked like CR wasn't going to be lynched. I remember now.

Bold implies that she could flip town and I was arguing keeping in mind your train of thought as to what we could do if that did happen. Don't twist my statements into "You KNOW she will flip town" when you could very well imply the same.

Btw I don't understand how wanting to lynch an anti-town member is anti-town in anyway. Yeah sure they can hit scum but you want to play Russian Roulette?

Btw Helios if you dislike my votehop so bad why aren't you voting me? It'd just make SB and I tie for votes at this point but I don't see you doing that. I mean if you think 2 cs 3 is ok, surely 3 vs 3 is?

Well you said it like "we can afford a mislynch SO we should do this" and I didn't really like how it sounded. Your wording was weird to me.

You're lynching a theoretical SK. If we had solid proof she was third party, THEN it would be different (see Schoolteacher Mafia). But it's not like that. You sound so sure that CR is the SK but there's just as much proof for that as there is for any of our scumreads right now. Unless you're a cop and scanned her last night, but I'm sure you would have said something if you did by now. So it's still like playing Russian Roulette don't you think?

Well I was voting you before for a billion other reasons and no one but Mancer seemed to agree, so I didn't feel like wasting my time with it. The difference is that it seems like more people seem to find JB scummy than finding you scummy.

[Bluedoom]

My argument is: You're lynching a 'probable scum' too. Mentioning that someone gives you SK vibes out of nowhere is real scummy for a newbie and you have no 100% proof that SB is scum either so on the chance SB is lynched and he flips town its the same result as lynching a possible town! CR. If this was 7/4/1 I would've agreed that lynching SK screws us up but its 8/4/1 so trying to kill the SK(who looks obvious to me anyway) is not a bad idea as long as the vig doesn't act like a troll(or if the mafia have an extra kill but you keep insisting otherwise)

Uh, when I was voting JB I had no idea there'd be others who wanted him lynched(bar Obviam or Scorri and the activity stinks) and Scorri like, voted later so I was in the same boat as you are.

[MancerNecro]

CR is not even a theoretical SK. She's only an SK if a hypothetical situation that you guys have speculated and devised is true. There's something about a hypothesis, and that it's weaker than actually accusing CR of being an SK because of theoretical scum tells or a theoretical situation. Theoretical situations/scumtells actually have some backing and are substantiated while hypothetical ones are not. Hypothetical ones either have not happened before or might turn up as both true or false.

So, I do not want to see about any more lynching CR stuffs unless you can actually come up with a better reason for it, Bluedoom.

Also, it is very apparent that you are indeed egging people on to lynch players. What you are doing is stacking votes on other players based off of another player's vote and reasoning, hence echoing. You are making and trying to push "easy" wagons by adding extra votes on other players' scumreads that might make or influence others to jump on that wagon as well.

All in all, I'm very unsatisfied with your performance for the last two Days, Bluedoom.

ALERT!!! ##PLEASE LYNCH: BLUEDOOM He is most definitely scum trying to mislead town.

[MancerNecro]

My argument is: You're lynching a 'probable scum' too. Mentioning that someone gives you SK vibes out of nowhere is real scummy for a newbie and you have no 100% proof that SB is scum either so on the chance SB is lynched and he flips town its the same result as lynching a possible town! CR. If this was 7/4/1 I would've agreed that lynching SK screws us up but its 8/4/1 so trying to kill the SK(who looks obvious to me anyway) is not a bad idea as long as the vig doesn't act like a troll(or if the mafia have an extra kill but you keep insisting otherwise)

Uh, when I was voting JB I had no idea there'd be others who wanted him lynched(bar Obviam or Scorri and the activity stinks) and Scorri like, voted later so I was in the same boat as you are.

You admitted that CR can flip town as well, so why are you so insistent and indignant that she is an SK and want to push her lynch all the way? Is there a major difference between voting for CR and SB that makes CR a much more confirmed anti-town than SB is?

[Helios]

My argument is: You're lynching a 'probable scum' too. Mentioning that someone gives you SK vibes out of nowhere is real scummy for a newbie and you have no 100% proof that SB is scum either so on the chance SB is lynched and he flips town its the same result as lynching a possible town! CR. If this was 7/4/1 I would've agreed that lynching SK screws us up but its 8/4/1 so trying to kill the SK(who looks obvious to me anyway) is not a bad idea as long as the vig doesn't act like a troll(or if the mafia have an extra kill but you keep insisting otherwise)

Uh, when I was voting JB I had no idea there'd be others who wanted him lynched(bar Obviam or Scorri and the activity stinks) and Scorri like, voted later so I was in the same boat as you are.

I'd rather it be 8/3/1 than 8/4 because at least then it has the potential to become 7/2/1 or even 7/1/1 if the vig hits scum. It's a lot more favorable for town to lynch scum in this situation than to lynch a hypothetical maybe SK. I don't know how else to put this man it's just not good play.

Your votehops were bad man you literally just jumped onto CR again because scorri voted and then later you jumped to SB who had the most votes on him. It just looks scummy man.

[Bluedoom]

Helios you keep using hypothetical ' vig shoots scum' or 'SK shoots scum' like you think the positives are going to happen everytime. It reminds me of your scumplay in .hack, where you claimed vig at massclaim time and then said you didn't shoot me because you thought I was so obvious scum that town would lynch me the next D phase. I think you do a lot of assuming as scum, don't you?

Idc if this is another vote hop, but you've been passive aggressive against me even after you switched to SB.

Your contribution throughout this phase has been mainly attacking me and agreeing with points against me instead of actual scumhunting.

The little that you did includes assuming that Baldrick is distancing( which again, is more assumptions and isn't even the SOLID EVIDENCE you want in scumhunting) and thinking Scorri wanted you lynched for no reason when she simply had a gut read on you. I agree her questioning you talking about only JB and SB wasn't great like she wasn't reading the thread properly but you made some weird speculation out of her gut read which is misrepping at its worst. This is like the second time you've made some weird-ass spec and told people not to take it srsly, that is called distancing yourself from theories and mislynches.

My CR votehop might be horrible that is arguable, but I don't like that you pull my SB vote out of context. You keep missing the part where I say that I thought phase ended today and I wanted to consolidate a lynch. You're misrepresenting the details in a scummy manner.

##Unvote ##Vote: Helios

[MancerNecro]

You admitted that CR can flip town as well, so why are you so insistent and indignant that she is an SK and want to push her lynch all the way? Is there a major difference between voting for CR and SB that makes CR a much more confirmed anti-town than SB is?

I like how Bluedoom dodges my post where I have posed a question that he would no doubt find it hard to answer.

[Baldrick]

Re: mylospec, what about the possibility of a bomb? It could provide the third kill in the case of 8/4/1 and isn't something anyone would claim. I don't think we should assume that any roles definitely exist or don't exist, because acting on a false assumption could backfire easily.

Marth says he just voted SB to get a lynch with no time left, but he hasn't removed his SB vote (pedit: he has now) and he seemed to focus a lot on CR. JB was the highest suspect of the three, and unlike CR he doesn't seem to have much support, so I think it would've made the most sense to push the JB lynch.

I'd like to see Mancer talk about someone else. Who are your other suspects if, for example, Marth makes a reasonable claim?

Helios' argument about scorri wanting to start a basis for a case against him could be applied to him as well. He went about it slightly worse because he said it was just an observation, so he could go either way depending on what happens later on.

Shinori, are any of the inactives close to being modkilled? If we really can't agree on a lynch it may be best to target one of them; if they're scum, great, if they're town, it sucks but it's better than them getting MK'd after a mislynch.

[Bluedoom]

Wrt CR vs SB, SB is at least trying to contribute even if I dislike his "I'm not sure what to think of him" while CR is basically just sitting back and voting me for 'trying to lynch anyone' which really just looks to me like its an OMGUS. And then reasons from before.

[Baldrick]

Aleph's attitude makes it difficult to tell when he's being serious and when he's not. He's also quite aggressive when defending, which may be meant to discourage people from attacking him.

I don't know his history with Levity, but it's interesting that he was so adamant about her being scum yesterday, but now she's subbed out strawman isn't in his top four lynches. So I don't believe that it was nothing personal.

He thought CR's SK spec suggested she knew something, and as recently as post #354 considered her play screwy. But he thought the notion was flimsy based on the fact there was only one kill, if she is SK it'd be a phenomenally bad idea to kill N1 since it would all but announce there's an SK and suspicion would surely go to her.

A minor point but he advocated letting people edit posts to bold votes, but wanted Shinori to come down hard on Shin for OC even though AFAICT he didn't say anything significant then on the basis of having respect for the rules.

People need to update their thoughts for the lynch that's happening about 15 hours from now. The last thing we need is a panic-driven random lynch.

[MancerNecro]

I think that CR's vote for you is more of she finds you scummy but she doesn't know how to express it well. This can be seen in her votes that heavily sheeps off mine. That how CR looks like to me.

I don't see how CR talking about the SK makes her immediately an SK. If that's the truth then scorri's comment about Helios claiming Bodyguard must mean that she is a Bodyguard by that same logic? See how flawed your logic for finding CR an SK is?

I might support an SB lynch because I see that he is just popping in and out commenting and voting occasionally then disappearing. This is a typical scum coasting behaviour.