redturtle806 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 It's been labeled a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League and The Southern Poverty Law Center, and has repeatedly targeted groups based purely on race, sexual orientation or religion. Its members picket funerals, stalk local organizers, and spread intolerance wherever they go.So why is the Westboro Baptist Church still not considered a hate group? Days after Westboro announced plans to picked the funerals of the children killed in Newtown, over 250,000 Americans signed a White House petition demanding they be designated as a hate group, with their tax-exempt status immediately revoked. That petition remains unanswered -- so we're adding our voice to the fray. For decades, the Phelps family and their Westboro followers have crashed the funerals of veterans with signs saying they're burning in hell, disrupted gay rights rallies with slogans like "God Hates Fags," and claimed the Holocaust cleansed Germany because Jews were "the real Nazis." Their stated purpose is exactly how a hate group is defined: to advocate hate, hostility and violence towards minorities. Please, join us in calling on the FBI to recognize the SPLC's designation of Westboro as a hate group, and to push the IRS to revoke its tax-exempt status immediately! SIGN THE FUCKING FORM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 It would be bad to go and sign a petition uninformed. One shouldn't really go and trust something they read on a forum about a topic like this without more to back it up with. So, once I am back more educated I'll give it consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redturtle806 Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) ^ That's a great idea. I kinda assumed most people knew about them. If your into documentaries, Louis Theroux did a great one on them. http://topdocumentar...ily-in-america/ The thing that really pisses me off about them is when they go to the funerals of dead soldiers and praise god for their deaths by picketing. It's completely disrespectful for the families of those brave men and women. They also say stuff like 9/11 was caused by god's anger at gay people. Edited January 12, 2013 by redturtle806 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 your appeal would be more effective if the topic title were spelt correctly ;-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If not a single one of their protests has lead to their arrest and downfall yet, then an online petition won't achieve that either. Clearly, the responsible people are interested in them remaining publicly active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redturtle806 Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 If not a single one of their protests has lead to their arrest and downfall yet, then an online petition won't achieve that either. Clearly, the responsible people are interested in them remaining publicly active. The point is to get them legally declared as a hate group, so that their federal tax exemptions will be nullified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The point is to get them legally declared as a hate group, so that their federal tax exemptions will be nullified. I understand that; I'm arguing that knowing how quickly people are caught with the least noticeable crimes in Western societies, it can be no coincidence that these folks are still enjoying their freedom. You can bet that even with the taxes taken out they're having more than one other source of income for doing what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Can we just stop talking about them? Even something like this is still just granting them the attention they so desperately seek and don't deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Yes, let us just ignore a problem and hope it will just go away on its own. That's brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If not a single one of their protests has lead to their arrest and downfall yet, then an online petition won't achieve that either. Clearly, the responsible people are interested in them remaining publicly active. This is because America has this strange notion of "freedom of speech", whereby people have the inalienable right to express their beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Ostrich Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I don't know whether or not the WBC has broken any local/state/federal laws in their crusade for media attention, but if so they should be held accountable. If not, then there's unfortunately nothing that can be done. What they say is outrageous and offensive, but it is their right and it is my right to be outrageous and offensive! Still, I'd love to end tax exemption for all religious institutions. It's one thing for the state to tolerate any (and most) schools of religious belief, and I consider myself a pretty tolerant guy, but any organization that takes up as much real estate as America's churches should at least pay a modest property tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Ugh I can't stand those guys from the Westboro Church. Really is there anyone who even likes those guys? I'm all for freedom of speech, but I don't think that it should extend to everything. In class we recently talked about a guy called Karl Popper and this quote from him is how I view the situation. “Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society... then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them... We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 They're a group of lawyers, so good luck making them break the law. I haven't figured out whether or not they're the ultimate trolls or crazy, but apparently they're pretty rational outside of these events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I'm almost surprised about how much people are hesitating at signing this, but then again I have a pretty good idea about what kind of people these guys are. Idk if they're trolls or just ignorant arrogant bastards, but one thing for certain is that I don't agree with the message they try to preach. Signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 OK these are some of the things I do not understand I would like to: -Does the white house normally designate organizations as hate groups? -Is there something wrong with the SPLC's list of hate groups? Why wouldn't use that? -What is the importance of designating the Westboro Baptist Church a hate group? ->If the importance is its status as being tax-exempt (because it's a church), then I would say that revoking its tax exempt status is not particularly a revocation of its freedom of speech. However, it does need to be clear (IMO) why, if an institution can be tax exempt, why its tax exempt status should be revoked. Personally, I don't like the idea that tax exempt status on religions is a way of making them the manipulable political tool of the government and people that grant them that status. Westboro church does appear to suck donkey dong though. I might not mind if a politician or group of politicians went on the record saying that. Not sure yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I'm almost surprised about how much people are hesitating at signing this, but then again I have a pretty good idea about what kind of people these guys are. Idk if they're trolls or just ignorant arrogant bastards, but one thing for certain is that I don't agree with the message they try to preach. Signed. So if I don't agree with the message you try to preach, can I designate you to be a hate group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) So if I don't agree with the message you try to preach, can I designate you to be a hate group? ...On SF, there's a decent chance you can, yes. But on a national level, the best you can do is probably make or sign a petition! (omg narga is billionaire lobbyist or president obama or the pope of broadway or something) (ACtually, you probably can't, because I figure Helios could at best be designated a hate individual rather than a hate group, but seriously that is stretching hate pretty far AFAICT.) Edited January 12, 2013 by Mouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 So if I don't agree with the message you try to preach, can I designate you to be a hate group? tee hee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redturtle806 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 OK these are some of the things I do not understand I would like to: -Does the white house normally designate organizations as hate groups? -Is there something wrong with the SPLC's list of hate groups? Why wouldn't use that? -What is the importance of designating the Westboro Baptist Church a hate group? ->If the importance is its status as being tax-exempt (because it's a church), then I would say that revoking its tax exempt status is not particularly a revocation of its freedom of speech. However, it does need to be clear (IMO) why, if an institution can be tax exempt, why its tax exempt status should be revoked. Personally, I don't like the idea that tax exempt status on religions is a way of making them the manipulable political tool of the government and people that grant them that status. Westboro church does appear to suck donkey dong though. I might not mind if a politician or group of politicians went on the record saying that. Not sure yet... The main reason for getting the tax exemption revoked is to cost them money. If they have less money, they can't travel to as many events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I'd rather focus on the Church of Scientology first than this group. WBC may have controversial views, but at least they're not a fucking despicable cult. Edited January 13, 2013 by Constable Reggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redturtle806 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I'd rather focus on the Church of Scientology first than this group. WBC may have controversial views, but at least they're not a fucking despicable cult. Ummm yes they are. I don't know of any christian group that advocates hate and suffering the way they do. Speaking of Westboro, they are also protesting the Connecticut shooting victim funerals. However, an old school biker gang showed up, and linked arms to block them from the funerals. Freaking awesome, way to go bikers. http://www.thegatewa...-westboro-cult/ Edited January 13, 2013 by redturtle806 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It's true that WBC seems to receive more criticism on the internet, probably because the users are more sensitive. I don't think they're being taken very seriously otherwise, perhaps that's why they're still around? This is because America has this strange notion of "freedom of speech", whereby people have the inalienable right to express their beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are. You'll have all those other people persecuted for saying far meeker things than what Fred and Co express though. Their status as lawyers might indeed have something to do with it, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Hell with it, signed (even if it's just a kick in the shins, they deserve to be kicked in the shins) Edited January 13, 2013 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Ummm yes they are. I don't know of any christian group that advocates hate and suffering the way they do. You seriously think that WBC is as bad as Scientology. A group that stole secure government papers, that kidnaps former members, that requires its members to pay obscene amounts of money and waive their legal rights, and has a policy of "bury anyone and everyone who looks at us funny with our legal power". Oh yes, picketing funerals is just as bad. Edited January 13, 2013 by Constable Reggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 If you have a petition handy, I'll donate my foot to kicking their shins as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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