Favorite DS FE?

[TheBigDipper]

12 by a large margin. The plot felt a lot more cohesive than its disjointed predecessor. It was refreshing to be able to unlock sidequests based on turn-count rather than killing your units. Battles were more enjoyable thanks to greater enemy variety. MU was a great feature that made the game stand out as more then just a remake and increased the replay value in my opinion. That's basically the gist of why I prefer 12 over 11.

*than

And btw, killing off your units actually make more sense, because you are sacrificing units to get (probably) better units, not just rushing through the stupid map in some few turns and get extra dudes to boost your army even more. Admittedly, MU is a nice option, but it offers way less than what FE12 ruined from 11: no creativity in map designs, repetition in multiple chapters (like getting chased by the group of heroes from chapter 7 to 9, then after that are a bunch of desert-themed maps with nearly nothing but dragons and wyverns, then you go into a cave and get to see even more dragons, you don't get to see a new creative map until like chapter 16), assed support convos (it would be nice if it was done better, because I don't feel like they're support convos, but rather "training reports" and MU's stupid "I will be by your side forever lol") and overall ease due to the free items you get from How's Everyone and the overloads of Vulneraries.

EDIT: lol first time I tried to prove something with a long paragraph

Edited September 30, 2013 by Epic Otaku

[RJWalker]

FE11 is very underrated.

It has this certain charm to it. Admittedly, a lot of the characters don't get any development but the ones that do get just enough to make me interested in them. The story is pretty basic but I'd rather have basic than painfully bad like FE13. Marth gets a surprising amount of character development and is a genuinely well written character from start to beginning. He isn't the wuss that everyone makes him out to be (doesn't help that FE12 regresses him back to his naive self from the old games) but is pragmatic character, who does make the hard decisions. Like when he says to Nyna that he'll try to talk to Camus but flat out says he won't make any promises. His father's last words and his sister's message to him via Malledus have a large impact on him. Back when he's first forced to flee Altea and leave his sister and his people behind, he deeply ashamed but never whiny:

Jagen:
Look, sire. See how Altea shrinks on the horizon...

Marth:
..aven...

Jagen:
I beg your pardon?

Marth:
I am a craven. Powerless to save my sister, to staunch my kingdom's wounds; to ease my people's fears...

Jagen:
This...was your only recourse, sire. But surely, one day, you will be able to set things right...

Marth:
"Surely"? Why do words of such conviction smack so much of uncertainty when spoken? Not surely, Jagen/Draug. Assuredly. Gra will pay for their acts. Today, though, allow me to wallow in this pain, to feel every awful twist of it. I never want to forget.

Jagen:
Sire...

Marth:
I will return, Altea! Your prince will return to you one day!

This dialogue expresses it beautifully. After he's reclaimed Altea but found out that his mother is dead and is sister is missing, he could have grieved for them and no one would have criticized him for it. Nyna suggests that he send someone out in his stead to greet the people of Altea but Marth's response is awesome.

Marth: No, that would not do. Today is a momentous day for my kingdom and my people. I must celebrate with them now, not later. Anything else would be a disservice to those who died to save Altea. I am a prince before I am a son or a brother.

Don't believe anyone who says Marth is a dull character. It's a real shame that FE12 did away with this character development and brought back idiot Marth from FE3.

Then there are the other characters. I admit I may be looking too deeply in some cases but whatever. First we have Caeda. She loves Marth but she's far from your typical love interest. One line of hers that I like was in her coversation with Ogma: "He's important to the world. But mostly to me." She knows she's got the looks and doesn't shy away from using them to wrap men around her finger, just to aide Marth's quest. I dare you to find a better female 'major' character in any other FE game. None can even compare.

Then there's Cain. Would you believe me if I said that Cain has a sole survivor story that's leagues ahead of Cordelia's similar story? All he needs are two pieces of dialogue to express it.

Cain:
...Sire, I...I cannot bear this! Failing to protect His Majesty...then leaving my brothers to die, slinking away like some coward...This indignity is too much to bear! One day I will repay them in kind. I will avenge the fallen...I swear it!

And this is further expressed in his death quote.

Cain:
Prince Marth... Tell them... I did not run...

Just beautiful. A character gets development right down to their death quote.

We have other great characters like Hardin, Ogma, Camus, Gharnef(who's one the best villains the series btw), etc. They don't exactly have tons of dialogue explaining their backstories and motives and goals but a lot of it is told through the gameplay itself and it just enough to get me invested enough to make my own headcanon. There's other stuff like how Knorda Market is such a hell hole even before Archanea fell to Medeus despite being right on the outskirts of Archanea's capital, implying that Archanea's King was not a very good king long before Camus spells it out in BSFE/Chronicles.

The gameplay is also fun. I' not going to say that it's perfect since most of the enemies are either Knights or Cavaliers and it allows Caeda's Wing Spear and Marth's Rapier to break the game. The map design is amazing. A lot of them can be Warp Skipped if you so desire but that robs of you of experience. Some really standout maps include 'Knorda Market', 'An Oasis of Magic', 'The Battle for Altea', 'The Sable Order', 'Camus the Sable', 'A Knight-filled Sky', 'Dark Pontifex' and 'Chosen by Fate'. All these maps are mostly unchanged from FE1 but the fact that they still hold is quite a feat. People don't like Avoid works in this game but it just means that you need to use the passive support bonuses to your advantage instead of them being just optional.

Reclassing is a great feature that adds a lot of variety. Switching between classes to better suit the next chapter as well as doing so for personal and less gameplay-oriented reasons is fun. Merging weapons means you're no longer stuck with that 1 use Steel Sword that's worthless. A minor feature but still important.

So what does this have to do with FE12? Here's the thing. FE12 is just as good but is some ways, ever-so-slightly inferior in many ways. Marth's regression is just one example. I can forgive reusing maps in FE3 since that was clearly a storage issue but they really should have innovated more in FE12. Many maps are identical. Some feature twists but for the most part, their the exact same.

Also, FE11 has the best localisation in the series. It takes the mimimum plot and makes it work! Now that isn't a negative against FE12. In fact, FE12 is the finest fan translation I've seen isnce they went beyond just another translation that most projects seemed to do and tried to emulate FE11's localisation. And succeeded too, aside from a few awkward hiccups, mostly in the prologue.

I don't know man, I just wanted to write sort of a love letter to FE11.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Ranger Jack Walker

[TheBigDipper]

^
Wow bro, that's so deep Adele would roll in it.

[Icon of Sin]

FE12 is the lesser of two evils I guess.

[eclipse]

Wall o' text

I managed the story-runs I did using nothing but the character death quotes in FE11 (and the prologue). I think it gives me just enough insight where I can see a character, but not so much that it shoves it down my throat.

[Gregosa]

*than

And btw, killing off your units actually make more sense, because you are sacrificing units to get (probably) better units, not just rushing through the stupid map in some few turns and get extra dudes to boost your army even more. Admittedly, MU is a nice option, but it offers way less than what FE12 ruined from 11: no creativity in map designs, repetition in multiple chapters (like getting chased by the group of heroes from chapter 7 to 9, then after that are a bunch of desert-themed maps with nearly nothing but dragons and wyverns, then you go into a cave and get to see even more dragons, you don't get to see a new creative map until like chapter 16), assed support convos (it would be nice if it was done better, because I don't feel like they're support convos, but rather "training reports" and MU's stupid "I will be by your side forever lol") and overall ease due to the free items you get from How's Everyone and the overloads of Vulneraries.

EDIT: lol first time I tried to prove something with a long paragraph

Thanks for the grammar check I usually get those two mixed up :)

I think you do raise some good points about 12's faults. I can agree with you that the middle segment of the game was kinda dull and formulaic. One part I really liked about the chase chapters was you could get some of the awesome weapons early if you wanted to take the risk. Are you sure there was no creativity in the map design? That one ice map with the zig-zaggy rivers felt very unorthodox and a lot side quest chapters didn't involve seizing thrones/gates. Lastly I agree with your sentiment on support conversations. They felt like a mixed bag, but at least I got a goodie at the end.

[Dark Sage]

FE12's supports were ok, the cast just didn't get enough of them, which is forgivable since the game was clearly made with a strict deadline.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

FE3 Chase Chapter is one of the best thing to ever happen to a map design. They limit where you can move while trying to complete a task under a time limit, and all 3 of them are presented in a different situation, which is open field + chasing thief + rescuing 2 new units(6), super closed up map with choke points(7), and desert map + seize the village(9)

The fact that Astram squad is a big joke that can be defeated by base level pegasus knight Yumina is an entirely different matter

[bookofholsety]

FE12 is the superior game by a long shot in almost every way, but FE11 just inches ahead for me solely on the basis of the difference between their interface skins. FE11's is absolutely lovely, whereas FE12... i GUESS it's nice they didn't pull a FE7 and tried to do a different one but that's about the only positive thing i can say about it

also everything ranger jack walker said, albeit less enthusiastic on most points. i do adore its localisation job, though

[Garnef]

While FE12 is my favorite entry in the entire series, I can still say that FE11 is a solid entry in the series. I mean sure, I don't like it as much as other games in the series, but it was still fun.

[PKL]

In what alternate dimension is FE12's map design bad?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I see your arguments and bring up Chapter 10

[PKL]

I see your arguments and bring up Chapter 10

Aside from Chapter 10, which is boring as hell (but not poorly designed anyway imo). Tell me, what other chapter is poorly designed? I find almost all of them to have genius stuff in them. And cleverly positioned enemies and side objectives.

[RJWalker]

Well, there's Chapter 3 which is a long and boring crawl if you want to recruit Matthis. And there's Marth Syndrome where he somehow always ends up one tile short of seizing or visting a village.

But I think FE12 has amazing map desig overall.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

correction, Julian as well

[PKL]

2 or 3 instances of it vs a plethora of other awesome things >_>

[RJWalker]

Yeah well, I said FE12's overall map design is amazing, didn't I? :P

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

FE12 map is a good example of "How can we fix those annoying aspect of a 10 years old map design"

It feels coincidental, in a weird way.

"Hey, remember how terrible CH11 was in the original? Lets tweak the system a bit!"

And we get the current CH11, which is not even half as tedious as the original(althought its still a joke, but thats for another time)

the re-design(kind of) of CH10, and Hardin not moving is on a grey zone, but overall its a good change.

Not sure about the later though, stalling those General reinforcement is possible >_>

Also the fact that the Sniper and Hero AI is chaned depending on diff. mode is quite a nice touch

[PKL]

FE12 map is a good example of "How can we fix those annoying aspect of a 10 years old map design"

It feels coincidental, in a weird way.

"Hey, remember how terrible CH11 was in the original? Lets tweak the system a bit!"

And we get the current CH11, which is not even half as tedious as the original(althought its still a joke, but thats for another time)

the re-design(kind of) of CH10, and Hardin not moving is on a grey zone, but overall its a good change.

Not sure about the later though, stalling those General reinforcement is possible >_>

Also the fact that the Sniper and Hero AI is chaned depending on diff. mode is quite a nice touch

Hi, Mister I CANT BEAT CHAPTER 11 :p

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Hi, Mister I CANT BEAT CHAPTER 11 :p

FUCK VIP CARD AND RICKARD

Siriusly

sirius sucks btw

[RJWalker]

FE12 map is a good example of "How can we fix those annoying aspect of a 10 years old map design"

It feels coincidental, in a weird way.

"Hey, remember how terrible CH11 was in the original? Lets tweak the system a bit!"

And we get the current CH11, which is not even half as tedious as the original(althought its still a joke, but thats for another time)

the re-design(kind of) of CH10, and Hardin not moving is on a grey zone, but overall its a good change.

Not sure about the later though, stalling those General reinforcement is possible >_>

Also the fact that the Sniper and Hero AI is chaned depending on diff. mode is quite a nice touch

How were those chapter changed? I'm not too familiar with FE3 to know in detail. I know that wyvern breath no longer pierces defence. And I know that the enemies start moving a couple of turns later in CH10. Also how different is the Sniper and Hero Ai in different difficulties.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

No reclass and non thief not having 100% treasure dig chance

Yeah, imagine that for a second

Chapter 10 - in the original recruiting Elearan result in every enemy escaping. Obviously in fe12 this kind of design is not plausible

Lunatic Astram and George instantly chases after you when you entered their attack range(not sure if this is always the case with Astram though, I have not played H1 in a long time)

Which ironically make George somehwat easier to route

[TheBigDipper]

Thanks for the grammar check I usually get those two mixed up :)

I think you do raise some good points about 12's faults. I can agree with you that the middle segment of the game was kinda dull and formulaic. One part I really liked about the chase chapters was you could get some of the awesome weapons early if you wanted to take the risk. Are you sure there was no creativity in the map design? That one ice map with the zig-zaggy rivers felt very unorthodox and a lot side quest chapters didn't involve seizing thrones/gates. Lastly I agree with your sentiment on support conversations. They felt like a mixed bag, but at least I got a goodie at the end.

Map creativity? Heh, I felt like the game makers ran outta ideas, then saw the FE11's old map designs in dust, then add something like a few forests, different enemies and call that a new chapter.

Side quests that need something that's not sacrificing, imo, are bad. You only spend some lil' time doing something, then you get a chance to beef up your units, and probably get more units. You don't lose that much to get extra stuffs.

[RJWalker]

Jeorge doesn't move on H1. Astram does, I think.