The Lunatic Club

[Frenzify]

I finished chapter 9, and I'm currently on paralogue 4. I beat the game on lunatic once, by grinding the hell out of the dlc, but since I don't want to do that this time, as hard as the game initially was in the first few chapters, I'm enjoying the game far more than on my first lunatic run. Some of my more frustrating moments so far aren't even the difficulty of the game and resetting; for example, trying to complete chapter 4 without Frederick, and when getting close, finding it virtually impossible to defeat "Marth", so having to just cave and use him, and also thinking that I may have over-relied on him too much, earlier on, and finding some chapters impossible, before realising I just needed to be more strategic in an srpg (go figure), consequently finding it much easier after some trial and error, and figuring out the best strategy.

I'm probably just a scrub in this thread, especially considering I play the game more to how "canon" and fitting things seem, rather than to create the best units, but it's still more satisfying playing without grinding. Hell, I even grinded to max stats on my first normal run, because I liked being so OP... Won't be doing that anymore.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Chapters 8-11 have a difficulty lull so you can safely train up the team you'll be using later. Keep that in mind and make the most of it.

[Ebony]

I remember a few pairings I used for my first Lunatic run. Chrom x Maribelle I think was the strangest one but it surprisingly worked.

[Zog58]

I'm doing a nogrind vanilla lunatic run, and I was planning to have Laurent be a nostank sorcerer. I have read that Gregor is probably the best dad for this role, but is Miriel!Gregor unrealistic on a nogrind? I know Stahl, Lon'qu and Gaius all give vantage as well, plus they all have a chapter lead on Gregor. In addition to that, I have never actually used Gregor before, so I have no way to gauge how good he'll perform. So to finish my question, is this pairing efficient and useful enough to work in a nogrind?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

IIRC, Gregor!Laurent carried a decent portion of Interceptor's mid-late game in his no-grind Lunatic+, so it should be more than feasible in vanilla.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Gregor isn't for Vantage, he's for Sol or AT. He gives pretty nice pairup boosts as a prepromote if you give him an instant MS and Miriel is really good early on, so as long as you don't need the parents lategame he'll work fine.

[Zog58]

Just curious before I get into my nogrind lunatic, what is the realistic maximum for units that I can train throughout the story? I have heard about 4 pairs, so 8 units, but could I realistically fit more? I do plan to take this file into postgame and probably Apotheosis, but I will certainly play the DLC and do necessary grinding before that point.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Depends who those pairs are, how many of them are staff users, exactly how much you're training each one, what part of the game you're in and mostly how good you are at the game. I'd stick to 3 if you haven't done Lunatic before, 4-5 if you have.

[Jeheza]

So, Been a while since I updated my progresso here and yeah, gotta say a lot of stuff happened.

First of all, I got tired of chapter 5. I completed it once with my previous ”Hardcore” rules, but somehow I messed up with the enemy range in the very end of the chap and let both of my healers, Lissa and Maribelle to die, so I didn’t save my progress. After that failure, I stopped playing for like two weeks. Then, I Thought of starting over the whole game again with different base strategy (Using F!Robin instead etc.), but RNG prevented me for getting past the prologue.( I got ctritted by a mage 3 times in a row thus, died 3 times in a row and gave up for the plan…).

After all my struggles, I decided to continue my existing save file by lightening my rules. I’m doing now a Lunatic+ [No DLC & No Avatar Logbook] Run. I’ll be using Renown awards up to Gradivus (Renown 10000). I’m doing this change mostly because I want to play L+ fairly while at the same time, enjoying it. The game got a lot more easier and comfortable for me now that I have access to Bonus team shops. (Managed to clear chapters 6,8,par2 and 9 on first try.)

Now that I’ve listed some info above, It’s time for some questions:

• I’m now going to chapter 10 and my Robin is LV 20, – Dark Mage. Should I promote him to Sorcerer or Dark Knight? Would vengance/Nosferatu be better than Lifetaker/extra mobility?
• My Sumia is now LV 2,35 Dark Flier. My goal is to get her to level 15 at the end of the chapter 13 to give her and Lucina gale force. Am I doing good, or is her experience pace lacking behind?
• My Cordelia (Which is going to be my Robins future breeding machine for ultimate Morgan & Severa), is now at LV11,0. Should I train her in the paralogues 3 and 4 or should I save the extra chapters for Lucina/Morgan/Severa?

That’s it for now, I guess. Thanks for the replies beforehand.

[Czar_Yoshi]

If you're going for a quad GF passdown, you've probably overleveled Robin. You really want to stop around 10 in your second base class to focus on giving the pegs all the exp, otherwise you'll never make 20/15 on both of them (and if you promote them too early, especially Cord, there's a big risk of falling off right before getting GF and having to delay Morgan and Severa).

Do use the earlygame Paralogues for the pegs, as long as you get GF the kids will do just fine on their own.

It's a bit of a shame you have to promote Robin now, as the flexibility of choosing your promote on the spot can be a pretty handy trump during the child paralogues. I'd probably go for DK though; Cord could really use the +1 Mov to make up for that early, early promote. You might want to focus a little less on her and more on Sumia for now as well, then get her the last bit to 15 during Cynthia's Paralogue (and any other kids you happened to pick up, it's a good idea to grab a few boys for Morgan and Severa to marry) once you have the extra power from Lucina and Cynthia's GF.

[Jeheza]

I see. Well, I went for the DK with my Robin.

I'll try to get at least Henry!Inigo and Owain from the boys. That said, Who would be better father for Owain considering my current situation, Frederick or Gregor. Frederick already has C support with Lissa and his Support growth with her is faster than it is with greg, who hasn't no support level atm. Though with Gregor, I could pass Owain Armsthrift. I'm thinking of going with Fred but I'm still not completely sure.

[Zog58]

Well, my nogrind vanilla lunatic run has been scrapped in lieu of my beating Chapter 2 in about a half hour total on Luna +.... so that's what I am doing now! Anyway I plan to do the following pairings on a nogrind luna +, and wanted some advice.

Chrom@Sniper/Bow Knight -> Lucina@Paladin/Sniper, pass Aether and Galeforce

Sumia@Dark Flier/Falcon Knight (Depends on if her mag grows well)-> Cynthia@Dark Flier/Falcon Knight, pass Aether and Galeforce

MMU (+spd -def)@Grandmaster-> Morgan@Valkyrie/Sage, pass Armsthrift/Veteran and Galeforce

Lissa@Sage/Valkyrie-> Owain@Grandmaster, pass Armsthrift and Galeforce

Miriel@Sage/Valkyrie-> Laurent@Sorceror, pass Tomefaire/DSup+ and Luna/Armsthrift

Stahl/Gregor@Great Knight/Hero

Miriel and her husband will be dropped right after I get Laurent

Olivia@Dancer-> Inigo@Hero, pass Galeforce/Luck +4, Luna/DG+

Frederick@Doesn't matter. He's pair up stats and strikes for MU, Sumia, and others when needed

Is this team enough to effectively clear the campaign? I will grind postgame for Apo prep, which I plan to challenge. In that instance I will recruit Severa and Gerome and use the DLC as needed. I didn't put the reclass pahs of the units down, but I felt that with the classes and inheritence it would be obvious as to who goes where, at least somewhat. Any thoughts?

[Jeheza]

This is just my view of the above, but I see it very unlikely for you have a chance to efficiently train so many characters with so diverse class paths in no grind L+. Chrom is more than likely to become a support-only unit in the late game so I would use him as that all the time. I'd probably just make him Great Lord.

I'm not sure How effective (+Spd -Def) is but I see (+Spd -Skill) or (+def -Skl) more effective myself. The latter is very good at early game. Also If your MMU's Spouse is Lissa you probably want to pass at least the other of the children (Morgan/Owain) veteran; Maybe for both. Though, If you make a sorcerer of either of them, Armsthrift would allow them to be an useful mire bomber. I still feel like Gregor!Laurent will do the job better at that.

I'm also not entirely sure how you're going to get galeforce for Mogran/Owain since you won't have enough time to train a good Lissa in Pegasus class path, since it would draw focus off and waste some seals from other units you are training. I'm also arguing against the Grandmaster ending class little bit. I feel like there's better ones available (Sorcerer, Sniper, Bow Knight etc.). I don't know the pros & cons of the GM that well though, so won't judge that any further.

[Zog58]

Yeah to clarify, MU is main when Lissa isn't Dark Flier, Sumia is main, Miriel is main UNTIL Sage (She gets exp through staff abuse), Olivia is main only as dark flier (will do a lvl 30 dancer reclass in ch11, so no exp wasted there), which is optional if needed, and the kids will probably develop themselves well with GForce and Veteran on Morg and Owain. This gives me an effective 5 pair combat team, which is not only around the recommended amount (I've seen a suggested 4-6), but all pairs will have Gforce. Also, to establish in case I didn't make it clear, Freddy will not be fighting past Ch.5 unles he is paired in the back; he will not be hogging exp, and same to Stahl/Gregor to a necessary extent (Stahl just needs GK 5, and Greg is good to go). Also Owain will be a Dread Fighter past DLC, and my brothers handy Streetpass team will give me infinite seals/stat boosters as long as I have cash. I hope that cleared some things up?

[Czar_Yoshi]

I'll try to get at least Henry!Inigo and Owain from the boys. That said, Who would be better father for Owain considering my current situation, Frederick or Gregor. Frederick already has C support with Lissa and his Support growth with her is faster than it is with greg, who hasn't no support level atm. Though with Gregor, I could pass Owain Armsthrift. I'm thinking of going with Fred but I'm still not completely sure.

Fred!Owain works pretty well and is low-impact to get, provided you give him enough exp to promote early.

Well, my nogrind vanilla lunatic run has been scrapped in lieu of my beating Chapter 2 in about a half hour total on Luna +.... so that's what I am doing now! Anyway I plan to do the following pairings on a nogrind luna +, and wanted some advice.

It's a nice team, but there's not enough exp in the game to get Lissa to pass down GF, so you'll have to have Morgan get it herself and either not recruit Owain or give up on it on him. You could shave off a bit of the overhead by having Lissa go through Peg instead of Sage on her way to DF, but she really wants to go Troub/Valk anyway, and Peg Lissa sounds terrible in Lunatic+. Quad GF is already really tight with Sumia/Cordelia, but switching to Lissa (and adding Miriel on top of that) just isn't happening.

[Mujuju]

I would just drop Inigo since he is arguably the worst child unit for the main game and really should not be used outside of post game. Olivia's terrible bases coupled with an untrained Fred (which usually happens in Luna+) will result in Inigo having terrible bases. In addition, Olivia comes fairly late, and you need, like, 8-10 chapters to build an S support (considering nogrind). Also his Paralogue is extremely difficult when available and if you recruit him later, he will not be able to scratch the enemies mid-late game when recruited due to enemies being in promotion/tank-heavy classes. Too many resources will need to be poured into him, which will not even render him useful and....well, you get the point.

As stated before, I don't realistically see everyone getting Galeforce as exp is spread too thin with so many units. I have never been successful in doing it outside of a female Robin, but if you can, I would love to know your strategies.

[Zog58]

It's a nice team, but there's not enough exp in the game to get Lissa to pass down GF, so you'll have to have Morgan get it herself and either not recruit Owain or give up on it on him. You could shave off a bit of the overhead by having Lissa go through Peg instead of Sage on her way to DF, but she really wants to go Troub/Valk anyway, and Peg Lissa sounds terrible in Lunatic+. Quad GF is already really tight with Sumia/Cordelia, but switching to Lissa (and adding Miriel on top of that) just isn't happening.

Hmm ok I will keep that in mind. Yeah I was going to go peg with Lissa as soon as Miriel is a Sage, and she is getting my first seal asap. If i go Stahl he will be paired with Miriel in the blink of an eye, so support points at least will not be an issue there. If I think Lissa will be a DF or at least 10 Peg by the end of 8 (I will make the most of exp decay by abusing all the bosses I can, I'll probably go for it. Otherwise, troubadour it is. Thank you two for your feedback, especially you Czar. You've been dealing with my incessant questions for days haha

I would just drop Inigo since he is arguably the worst child unit for the main game and really should not be used outside of post game. Olivia's terrible bases coupled with an untrained Fred (which usually happens in Luna+) will result in Inigo having terrible bases. In addition, Olivia comes fairly late, and you need, like, 8-10 chapters to build an S support (considering nogrind). Also his Paralogue is extremely difficult when available and if you recruit him later, he will not be able to scratch the enemies mid-late game when recruited due to enemies being in promotion/tank-heavy classes. Too many resources will need to be poured into him, which will not even render him useful and....well, you get the point.

As stated before, I don't realistically see everyone getting Galeforce as exp is spread too thin with so many units. I have never been successful in doing it outside of a female Robin, but if you can, I would love to know your strategies.

Realistically, I COULD avoid Inigo till lategame/postgame. If someone drops, he's the best one due to Olivia waiting for Gforce till then. In the meantime, Freddy can just act as backup and give Olivia extra move to keep dancing the rest of the main story, which will give me support points. Not a bad call, I may just do that. Thanks!

Edited December 10, 2015 by Zog58

[Czar_Yoshi]

I would just drop Inigo since he is arguably the worst child unit for the main game and really should not be used outside of post game. Olivia's terrible bases coupled with an untrained Fred (which usually happens in Luna+) will result in Inigo having terrible bases. In addition, Olivia comes fairly late, and you need, like, 8-10 chapters to build an S support (considering nogrind). Also his Paralogue is extremely difficult when available and if you recruit him later, he will not be able to scratch the enemies mid-late game when recruited due to enemies being in promotion/tank-heavy classes. Too many resources will need to be poured into him, which will not even render him useful and....well, you get the point.

As stated before, I don't realistically see everyone getting Galeforce as exp is spread too thin with so many units. I have never been successful in doing it outside of a female Robin, but if you can, I would love to know your strategies.

Here's the thing about Lunatic+ high deployment: units don't necessarily have to be high leveled to be useful. Enemies bring more than just stats to the table, so you should too: while it's certainly important to have some sweepers with high stats for taking EPs and securing important kills, they're not the only thing that matters.

Inigo can contribute nicely as a hard support. He won't have the damage output to ORKO stuff by himself, but he will have the output to help out through DSes. He won't have the stats to last against multiple enemies, but he can provide pairup boosts that will allow someone else to. And even though his bases are bad, his fast exp gain and a promotion after two base classes will make that up pretty fast, if you can spare exp to train him. Skill-wise, he can also be helpful, with AT to conserve money and Anathema from Henry (don't use anyone other than Chrom/Henry!Inigo for Lunatic+ ingame, other supports build too slowly for him to be useful) for more Hit/Crit.

So it's not like you'll miss him if you don't get him, but I think he has enough stuff to be a net positive to the team, especially considering that Olivia can build support without fighting or taking exp so he's very low-impact to get.

As for quad GF passdown, you need to give Sumia as many chip kills as you can early on while doing the bulk of the fighting with Robin, get her to S with Chrom around Cht.6, and then retire Robin to the back after Cht.7 and use only Sumia and Cord up until Cht.13 or so (it gets a little hard for them around Cht.11 if they aren't both promoted, so I let Valk Lissa do a bit of fighting as a distraction and tank to make things easier). Sumia needs to take the lead at the end because Cord can get her final level in Cynthia's Paralogue, you'll want to give them all the earlygame Paralogues (saving 2 for when Cord shows up is a good idea though), and picking up Owain is very useful for getting more Cord exp too. It's very tight and I don't think you can train much more without sacrificing 20/15 on both of them, and getting Peg 20 is really important so they can keep helping after the children show up (some chapters, especially 18, four GF users just isn't enough for). Robin will be fairly weak for a while doing this as he gets essentially no exp after Cht.7, but mine was still strong enough to come back in at Cynthia's Paralogue, promote to Hero after a few kills (around Lv.15) and start helping again.

Yeah I was going to go peg with Lissa as soon as Miriel is a Sage, and she is getting my first seal asap. If i go Stahl he will be paired with Miriel in the blink of an eye, so support points at least will not be an issue there. If I think Lissa will be a DF or at least 10 Peg by the end of 8 (I will make the most of exp decay by abusing all the bosses I can, I'll probably go for it.

Not enough exp. You'd have to promote both Pegs at 10 to have a chance, and Lissa is already too weak to duo- even if you somehow get her to Peg 10 by Cht.8 (which won't happen, as Cht.8 is the first place you can feed the Pegs kills that aren't set up, and Sumia already needs 100% of those), your run will sink due to not enough power. You can try to transition back into Robin carrying to get through Plegia, but then you won't have GF for later.

Sending Lissa through Troub -> Valk with a lot of staff spam will work, though. You'll have to heavily favor Sumia to make sure she stays on track (try for a mid-late Cht.9 promotion at 20, without Paralogues), but you'll have enough EXP to train another low-impact unit as well. Not sure who that would be, as getting Miriel going usually requires the kills Sumia needs- probably Robin, I guess. You could also give Chrom a bit more exp, though I haven't had problems with mine when using both Sumia and Cordelia.

[Mujuju]

Fair enough. Though personally, I think putting in that all that work to get inigo is not worth the trouble when I could just get someone such as Laurent or Owain to do just that with far less effort.

I think you still need 6 (7?) chapters to still build support. Chapter 14 and 16 may not be feasible. Children paralogues obviously help.

[Czar_Yoshi]

All that work? He's one of the easiest children in the game to get, resource-wise, and in terms of player effort you really shouldn't be playing Lunatic+ if you don't want to put in effort. Owain is a little easier, yes (Laurent isn't), but you have four G2 girls, and aren't really short of spots to put them.

With the fastest support growth, it takes between five and seven chapters, depending how lucky you get with Event Tiles.

[Mujuju]

I was comparing Inigo vs. Owain/Laurent. Yes, I can see Inigo is useful and recruitment conditions aren't too bad If you're looking for a full S support team, go for it. However, if i had a choice, I would not use him above Owain or Laurent.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the effort as a comparison, as I don't mind putting in the effort, but there is no need for snide remarks.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Sorry, I wasn't intending to be snide. I meant that as a general remark; Lunatic+ really isn't a place for cutting corners.

Owain is definitely very useful, but Laurent's 10 levels on Miriel is still a very high price to pay in a quad GF run.

[Mujuju]

All good. She does come early, and if you don't really care about bases or getting Armsthrift, you could probably pair her up w/ one of the early chapter meatshields and milk support levels.

[Jeheza]

Questions of promotion/Class paths.

I'm currently in the end of chapter 11 (L+) grinding Olivia to LV30 with dancing. When should I promote:

Lissa LV12,6 Trubadour.

Chrom LV 11,55 Lord (Supportive unit only)

What class path would work well with fred!Owain?

My Sumia is now LV10,73 Dark Flier and she's getting at least one level from the remaining (7) foes. Cordelia is LV18,22 Peg Knight. How are their EXP pace holding up?

[Czar_Yoshi]

LV 11,55

LV10,73

Huh?

I'm not really following your level formatting here. I thought you were using the levels you reclassed/promoted at, followed by your current level, but that's not the case?

Edited December 12, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi