[NOC] Volcanic Anonymafia - Game Over

[Estelle]

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with Invisible's posts beyond his arrogant "Good luck lynching me" one liner?

[Refakitty³]

Okay screw the quirk, I'm doing this the hard way.

I am not quite liking Invisible right now. He seems to be making a big deal out of acting as if he's not bothered by votes on him.

Ahahahahahahaha yeah okay. Is that literally the only reason you don't like me? If so, then lol

Here's a question: Do you think there is scum intent behind me not caring too much about votes on me? At some point as scum, I'm bound to break, right? Scum don't want to be lynched, and while yes, neither does town, I'm pretty sure that looking at wagons on the flipped is still useful, regardless of whether it is a mislynch, and even if it's me.

Are you scum, trying to act overly town by not making a big deal over getting votes?

Ask yourself a question, "Do you think I am scum acting as such?" Because I'm town lol

It's a question that I can't actually answer productively and the logic behind it is weak. Try harder when trying to find suspicions kthnx

Furthermore, the accusation in post #61 that Bored is being hypocritical does put Invisible on a higher placement then Bored! Accusing someone of doing the same scummy tactic you have committed only causes both of you to gain a lower standing among town!

Back your shit up properly. What exactly have I done that is similar to Bored (ie: how have I been hypocritical)? Explain yo shit and then I'll answer.

Furthermore taking the "Because I'm Town" defense does not fly with Moeblobs! Being apathetic over votes on you makes you look scummy, rather then defending them! Mafia is a game of interactions! You should address points made at you regardless of how early the game is ongoing, or else there will be no progress made towards interacting and finding scum!

This is better though, and it is a valid point against me. That said though does that make me scum? Is there scum intent behind it?

So now to everyone: How opportunistic does the wagon turn from Bored to me feel to each one of you?

I need to reread some shit and reassess suspicions so yeah

[Refakitty³]

Moeblobs With Hats is bothered by how quickly the wagon on Bored has formed! Moeblobs can sense opportunistic scum on Bored's wagon!

Let's turn this on you: How bothered are you by the wagon that has formed on me, which encompasses more votes and has formed almost as quickly, if not quicker than the wagon on Bored? Make up your mind, and explain in detail why my wagon is different?

[Refakitty³]

Let's turn this on you: How bothered are you by the wagon that has formed on me, which encompasses more votes and has formed almost as quickly, if not quicker than the wagon on Bored? Make up your mind, and explain in detail why my wagon is different?

failed tags lol

[Refakitty³]

okay maybe I can't numbers with the votes point, but yeah I've gained about the same number of votes, but my point still does stand

[Shiki Ryougi]

Ahahahahahahaha yeah okay. Is that literally the only reason you don't like me? If so, then lol

Considering that about half the game hasn't even shown up outside of RVS, my reads are on the people who are actually present. You seem overly flippant of votes on you, and it catches my attention. It's a minor thing and a minor read, but ignoring it when it gets my attention isn't going to progress anything.

Here's a question: Do you think there is scum intent behind me not caring too much about votes on me? At some point as scum, I'm bound to break, right? Scum don't want to be lynched, and while yes, neither does town, I'm pretty sure that looking at wagons on the flipped is still useful, regardless of whether it is a mislynch, and even if it's me.

It's one thing to not care too much about votes on you. What I do not like is the fact that you need to point it out (and not just once, but at least twice if I am not remembering wrong). It feels like you're making a big show about "see how I'm totally not scum because I'm not freaking out over votes and laughing them off".

Ask yourself a question, "Do you think I am scum acting as such?" Because I'm town lol

It's a question that I can't actually answer productively and the logic behind it is weak. Try harder when trying to find suspicions kthnx

Saying "I'm town" doesn't mean anything. Only scum know who each other are. It serves no point and actually makes you look less town.

Are you saying that if I find something suspicious then I should not point it out? I don't know if you're scum or if you're town. Maybe my "suspicion" is really stupid and means nothing. But I am not going to sit back and ignore it just because it might mean nothing because we don't get anywhere if we do that. Any amount of reaction, any reads I can get on anyone is good enough.

[Refakitty³]

Suspicion wise Pasa is pinging me for blowing out my comment about me getting votes without actually thinking about possible scum intent behind it, just throwing stuff out weakly that doesn't actually achieve much

extending on, they have too many generalizations to the point where it's misrepping people which is scummy

Moeblobs was also a slight hypocrite with the wagon comment as already noted/implied (and then also with the point about me being a hypocrite while still managed to do it themselves, good one)

Bored I'm not feeling as much now, because I can understand that it's unlikely scum would draw so much attention o themselves with the RVS problem (that said WIFOM exists but I'm rolling with what I think)

##Unvote

##Vote: Pasadena

See above.

[C. C.]

Back your shit up properly. What exactly have I done that is similar to Bored (ie: how have I been hypocritical)? Explain yo shit and then I'll answer.

Moeblobs would like to formally retract this statement, on account of being confused by the wording, also being that Moeblobs is slightly drowsy! Hoerver, Moeblobs does not give up so easily when presented that an argument is in fact false!

This is better though, and it is a valid point against me. That said though does that make me scum? Is there scum intent behind it?

Moeblobs thinks that not responding to votes against you stifles discussion against you, which makes it harder to read you! A town player would be more open in their dealings with others! Moeblobs cannot comment if your showy behavior in general is scummy or not, as Moeblobs perceives such actions as neutral in terms of views of character!

Let's turn this on you: How bothered are you by the wagon that has formed on me, which encompasses more votes and has formed almost as quickly, if not quicker than the wagon on Bored? Make up your mind, and explain in detail why my wagon is different?

Moeblobs did not see a wagon proper formed on Invisible until the vote by Pasadena! Your perception that you had a "fast wagon" is quite incorrect! If you look at the votecounts you will see that Bored had five votes to your two, until Pasadena switched and Moeblobs evened the score!

Moeblobs also notes, in light of this, that Pasadena's switch also was very opportunistic! Moeblobs will be keeping several adorable eyes on him! Moeblobs does not discriminate when trying to find scum on wagons, even it if is also a wagon Moeblobs is on the case for!

[Refakitty³]

Are you saying that if I find something suspicious then I should not point it out?

Quote exactly where I implied such a thing.

I don't know if you're scum or if you're town.

And your vote is on me, and that implies you want me lynched, at least at this point. You must think I might be a little scummy, no?

[Refakitty³]

Moeblobs thinks that not responding to votes against you stifles discussion against you, which makes it harder to read you! A town player would be more open in their dealings with others! Moeblobs cannot comment if your showy behavior in general is scummy or not, as Moeblobs perceives such actions as neutral in terms of views of character!

First point taken, however the second part I'm confused about. You're saying that's neutral, so why are you voting me, exactly? From what I'm taken from your posts, that's mostly the reason you're voting me iirc.

Moeblobs did not see a wagon proper formed on Invisible until the vote by Pasadena! Your perception that you had a "fast wagon" is quite incorrect! If you look at the votecounts you will see that Bored had five votes to your two, until Pasadena switched and Moeblobs evened the score!

Yeah I addressed that I failed numbers, but yeah.

[C. C.]

Elaborating on the differences in wagons more....

Furthermore Moeblobs notes that many of the votes on Bored were over a perceived lack of offense, which was rectified, whereas many points on you were for a perceived lack of defense, which still shows slightly!

[Refakitty³]

whereas many points on you were for a perceived lack of defense, which still shows slightly!

And like all of my recent posts bar one have been mostly defending myself, with a spice of offense. Right.

[Refakitty³]

btw if you think I'm misrepping you at all PLEASE call me out on it thanks and i will discuss it with you.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Ivisible, you are also ignoring what I say. (No, I will not correct the typo in your name.) You're saying that my points are weak, but you're not acknowledging anything I say or even trying to see it from my point of view. My thoughts, whether they be right or wrong, are don't work like yours. I voted you because I had a minor suspicion on you that I'd like sorted out sooner rather than later. You pretty much just laughed in my face and called my case weak. Are you even trying to understand my explanation for my thoughts? You don't have to agree with it, but your making a big deal over a minor thing is not making me feel any better about you.

Also, seriously, you sounded like a complete asshat the way you guys laughed off at my posts. "Ahahahahahahaha yeah okay"? Would you like it if I did the same thing to you? Your play reminds me of something that one player did in a recent game, and then whined and cried and subbed out when called out on it. Stop it. This is not okay. Do you see me or anyone else purposely laughing off another player's posts, making them feel like an absolute joke? What makes you think this is decent behavior? I will not turn it around on you, because I am a better person than that, but I will do everything in my power to get you lynched if I think you're scum if this continues.

[C. C.]

^{(Moeblobs With Hats needs to read posts made during post typing more)}

First point taken, however the second part I'm confused about. You're saying that's neutral, so why are you voting me, exactly? From what I'm taken from your posts, that's mostly the reason you're voting me iirc.

Moeblobs is bothered by the actions, not by the way they are presented! Openly ignoring votes on yourself is bad, however your flagrant and attention-grabbing posts are not. Moeblobs has not made an effort to criticize your activity.

And like all of my recent posts bar one have been mostly defending myself, with a spice of offense. Right.

Moeblobs notes that up until very recently you still gave off the perception that you didn't care about the votes on yourself, hence why you have all these votes on you now. Backtracking to save yourself is not bad, however it will not totally fix your situation, naturally, at least in the opinion of Moeblobs.

btw if you think I'm misrepping you at all PLEASE call me out on it thanks and i will discuss it with you.

Moeblobs appreciates your concern but is so far not worried about misrepresentation! Moeblobs enjoys the debate-laden challenge you have presented! In fact Moeblobs should really try to focus less on you and look more at Pasadena!

[Refakitty³]

Ivisible, you are also ignoring what I say. (No, I will not correct the typo in your name.) You're saying that my points are weak, but you're not acknowledging anything I say or even trying to see it from my point of view. My thoughts, whether they be right or wrong, are don't work like yours.

Okay, let's work through this. I thought your case on me was weak because I thought you were misrepresenting my position and using a small point related to one statement I made. However, I think it is fair for you to argue that I'm intending something else behind my words. I'm obviously going to argue against it, so it's more you need to convince the others of it.

Are you even trying to understand my explanation for my thoughts?

I am trying, but then I don't agree with it is the thing. Which then might make it seem like a big deal, at least in your eyes. I honestly don't think my argument against your argument against my statement is a big deal, but people see things differently.

Also, seriously, you sounded like a complete asshat the way you guys laughed off at my posts. "Ahahahahahahaha yeah okay"? Would you like it if I did the same thing to you? Your play reminds me of something that one player did in a recent game, and then whined and cried and subbed out when called out on it. Stop it. This is not okay. Do you see me or anyone else purposely laughing off another player's posts, making them feel like an absolute joke? What makes you think this is decent behavior? I will not turn it around on you, because I am a better person than that, but I will do everything in my power to get you lynched if I think you're scum if this continues.

I apologize for this. I admit what I did was disrespectful to you. I will try and avoid doing that in the future.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Quote exactly where I implied such a thing.

You didn't say it explicitly. But the way you laughed at me definitely implied it.

And your vote is on me, and that implies you want me lynched, at least at this point. You must think I might be a little scummy, no?

How can I KNOW with 100% certainty whether you're town or scum before you flip? I may think you're scummy, but that doesn't mean I absolutely know which way you'll flip.

Okay, let's work through this. I thought your case on me was weak because I thought you were misrepresenting my position and using a small point related to one statement I made. However, I think it is fair for you to argue that I'm intending something else behind my words. I'm obviously going to argue against it, so it's more you need to convince the others of it.

This is fair enough, and yes, I do expect you to argue against it if it's not true. It would have helped a lot more if you had explained your stance like this in your first post. I don't expect you to agree with me or what I may think, especially if it's not true or you feel differently. But the way you phrased yourself sounded more like you were just brushing me off and not explaining why you thought my case was weak.

I mean, if I want someone lynched then I had better make a strong case against a person. But if you want a person to get their vote off you because you're not scum, then you best explain yourself well so that person is inclined to move their vote. I admitted my case on you was weak. What I wanted was a reaction more than anything else, a reason to keep my vote on you or move it.

I am trying, but then I don't agree with it is the thing. Which then might make it seem like a big deal, at least in your eyes. I honestly don't think my argument against your argument against my statement is a big deal, but people see things differently.

I don't have a problem with this.

I apologize for this. I admit what I did was disrespectful to you. I will try and avoid doing that in the future.

And that's all I really need.

##Unvote

This last post was more satisfactory and what I wanted to hear in the first place, but a part of me is still hurt. And that side will more than likely cloud my judgement. I'm going to sleep and hopefully be of clearer mind to continue this tomorrow.

I know that this is a game of mafia and that nothing said here should be taken so seriously, but we are people and we have lives. We have bad days, things that are getting us down, and stuff that just may set us off. We do NOT need to laugh in each other's faces and be douches to one another. We can still play mafia and build proper cases while being civil about it. And honestly, I should NOT have to be giving a lecture on how to treat people right now. This should be common sense.

[C. C.]

I still find it odd the way you need to show how "cool" you are with votes on you. Are you scum, trying to act overly town by not making a big deal over getting votes?

Moeblobs thinks this is a very weak vote! Furthermore, The first textblob in Pasadena's #81 makes the vote look slightly like a votepark.

Considering that about half the game hasn't even shown up outside of RVS, my reads are on the people who are actually present. You seem overly flippant of votes on you, and it catches my attention. It's a minor thing and a minor read, but ignoring it when it gets my attention isn't going to progress anything.

This reasoning belies that Pasadena voting Invisible for weak reasons because he cannot read many other players.

However, despite this, Invisible's posts directed at Pasadena do not help to worsen the position of Pasadena's vote, but in fact only aggravate the vote. The initial mocking responses that were given by Invisible hark back to my point that ignoring or brushing off votes gives the perception of arrogant scum who do not want to be read or interact.

Therefore both of you are bad in this situation.Moeblobs still thinks one of you could be scum, however Moeblobs suspects that one must be town due to the interactions between the two of you. They do not look fabricated.

EDIT: Now that you have unvoted, Pasadena, where will your vote go next?

[Shiki Ryougi]

I AM GOING TO SLEEP AND NOT GOING TO THINK ABOUT THIS GAME UNTIL I AM OF RATIONAL MIND. WHICH MEANS THE VOTE IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE UNTIL I WAKE UP.

[Violet Evergarden]

I make a post, poking at one person in response to a vote they made on me. It was clearly not going to be much of a defense as the reasons for the vote were simply random. Thus, I felt no real reason to defend myself. After all, if I had, it would have simply been empty words for an empty case.

But you did, and they were. Your whole post was empty, and consisted of flavor and faint attempts at deflection. At the time of my voting the fact that you were being objectively worse than Invisible (who merely had two someones RVS him, instead of one) was a perfectly decent reason to make a stand. Your post was actively worse than if you had simply not posted. With "Interesting, I shall be keeping an eye on this one." you single out the player who had voted you as deserving of more scrutiny compared to the rest of the playerbase, when there was absolutely nothing legitimate to warrant that. This is worse than just showing up and going, "lol, I got votes on me. eh, fuck it, I don't know who to vote, I'll come back when RVS is done."

Thankfully, you've cleaned up your act a lot since then. Did you enlist in boot camp, son, because something sure straightened you out right quick.

Now, I ask you this. What is the point of putting down an empty vote when there are plenty of votes out there already?

Because if you make a wagon look tempting, it's certainly possible for scum to jump on with weak reasons. Then if someone with a sharp eye notices, they can get nailed to the wall, just like how, for example, Marlowe was in Presidential. The more options there are for interaction, the more ways scum can back themselves into a corner. Laying as much groundwork as possible, is always the right answer, and more than anything else, putting a vote down on the table is a great way to make things proceed.

Two people come in and vote me 6 minutes. 5 minutes later, Invisible comes in and says that he's content leaving his vote where it is. For this case, we can count that as being a third vote on me, since it essentially is due to his first vote being completely random. Invisible then says that I threatened him (please, I wouldn't waste my time. Saying that I'm going to keep an eye on you isn't a threat when I'm going to keep an eye on everyone) but then essentially says that I'm useless and need to go. Now, how is that any less of a threat than what I said? Hmm? And then the kicker, Fail there comes in and says that since I have no vote down, I have no sense and no place in this game.

It's pretty much a guaranteed fact that my post and Pasadena's posts were being typed up at the exact same time. I was honestly a bit surprised when I saw that he'd weighed in in such close succession, but hey, it's early in the game, it's got that shiny fresh "new mafia" smell to it, and nobody's grown weary or anything, so it makes sense people tend to keep at least a reasonable eye on the developments. You see something that sticks out to you, why not jump? That said, by the time you hit the half-lynch threshold, it's definitely time to question the speed of a wagon, I'll certainly grant you that.

Now, what can we learn from this? Well, I actually find it unlikely that Fail is scum. Instead, I find it likely that one of the first two people to vote me are scum.

I'm especially interested to hear your reason why Fail is unlikely to be scum. Do expound on this.

As such, I'm going to

##Vote:Space Marine

You vote me for a weak reason which you then weaken even further by saying that you could easily switch your vote to Invisible.

Your vote has been acknowledged. I will deal with it more after hearing the results of your elaboration on the previous point, if necessary.

For instance, did anyone else notice that after I voted for him, Space Marines was reading the thread and then disappeared without defending himself? I find that a bit suspicious.

This is news to me. I came back from a 3DS break to refresh on page 3 only to find we had now made it to page 5. It is quite possible that I'd been reading the topic a little bit before you posted, and the bottom of the screen being on a 15 minute or so counter would have made it look like I was still currently viewing. In the future hover over it to get a more precise time, I find that helps.

I'll be rereading the other developments while I wait to hear back clarification from Bored on his Fail opinion.

PreviewEdit: seeing a lot of new Moeblob, Invisible, and Pasadena, but I doubt it to be relevant to my post, so I will proceed to post, then read.

Also, holy hell, rich text editor is a piece of shit, I need to get that turned off pronto.

[Prims]

Also, holy hell, rich text editor is a piece of shit, I need to get that turned off pronto.

yeah i cannot fathom what the flying fuck ipb3 was thinking there. at first i thought it was just working poorly in opera but it's awful in other browsers too (and i use chrome now)

Edited March 1, 2013 by Priam

[C. C.]

I forgot to mention that it is bedtime for Moeblobs With Hats!

Moeblobs With Hats looks forward to new nights with which to find scum, and new days with which to wear hats!

[Rain Nijika]

Ah, yes, Fail. Well, at that point in time, I had three votes on me, all in fairly quick succession. However, at that point in time it still would not be likely to be considered a wagon. Fail, while he may have had very weak reasoning, was what pushed it over the edge into a band wagon. Now, typically, scum will enjoy hoping onto potential band wagons early but also later after the band wagon has created steam. If, instead, they are hoping on right in the middle, they are far more likely to become the object of suspicion then if they add to the vote to allow for a lynch or start off the voting on people. Thus, if scum is playing smart, they will try to avoid the area that is viewed as being the start of the bandwagon. Thus, at least for now, I do not view Fail with large suspicion.

[Violet Evergarden]

Ah, yes, Fail. Well, at that point in time, I had three votes on me, all in fairly quick succession. However, at that point in time it still would not be likely to be considered a wagon. Fail, while he may have had very weak reasoning, was what pushed it over the edge into a band wagon. Now, typically, scum will enjoy hoping onto potential band wagons early but also later after the band wagon has created steam. If, instead, they are hoping on right in the middle, they are far more likely to become the object of suspicion then if they add to the vote to allow for a lynch or start off the voting on people. Thus, if scum is playing smart, they will try to avoid the area that is viewed as being the start of the bandwagon. Thus, at least for now, I do not view Fail with large suspicion.

Reasons acknowledged. I must say that I highly disagree, as a matter of principle, with assuming that scum is playing optimally. Not to mention that where to draw the line between early/middle/late wagon voting is always going to be nebulous. Still, your chain of reasoning was not wholly without merit.

Someone seems to know how not to bring progress in a game. Most ludacris. I wouldn't come near you unless you had those cute skinny jeans on. Your plan of not participating in.RVS stages by firmly abstaining from it have albeit made you look like a baboon's red shiny rear.

Honestly, if you're trying to press things forward, do you think you will be successful by adamantly doing nothing?

##Unvote

##Vote Bored

Hell you reacted to every random point against you like there were legit cases formed within the mere handful of hours that this game has existed on.

Between utter defensiveness, overreaction, and a lack of vote-worthy reads after that verbal explosion of flaming hot nonsense, I'm satisfied with my vote right here.

This vote came after Bored had shined his shoes, and made his bed so tight you could bounce a quarter off of it. While I might not see eye to eye with his reasons, he certainly had upped his game and begun to take things seriously. He put down a vote, he made an actual defense, and yet still we get another weak vote on the Bored wagon?

Not to mention, there's absolutely no acknowledgement that up until just awhile ago, Flaming Hot had himself been the leading contender for "Most likely to be fitted for a noose". I think I want to see how you actually react to pressure, instead of what it looks like when you slip out of it like a greased pig.

While this might take some doing, because if I read things right you are back down to one vote, I feel like I won't be served wrong by

##Unvote:

##Vote: Flaming Hot

[Olivier]

I'm going to attempt to read past the page few pages of content, but I'd like to mention that just based off the first page, I find Pasadena odd and scummy for asking for consolidated votes so early on ED1. Not sure if this has been mentioned before cause I haven't read past the second page yet.

##Unvote: Invisible

Gonna spend a while reading before I place my vote down again.