Your Favorite and Least Favorite Lord

[CT075]

remind me what evidence there is that micaiah's sacrifice comes from her being branded

[BrightBow]

remind me what evidence there is that micaiah's sacrifice comes from her being branded

We know it's a natural ability and we know that she is branded. And we know that branded have unnatural abilities. So where else would it be coming from?

Edited March 27, 2013 by BrightBow

[Anacybele]

Plus, it's stated somewhere that Branded are sometimes born with strange powers. Soren's tactical knowledge is his ability, as the dragon laguz blood grants intelligence. Hawk and raven laguz grant speed, explaining how Zelgius is so fast in all his armor. Herons grant magic, like Micaiah's healing powers. And beast laguz grant strength, which is probably why Stefan looks so much bulkier than other male Swordmasters/Trueblades.

But Micaiah still comes off as Suish to me at times. She's not a complete Mary Sue, but still.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Anacybele

[Sublime Manic]

As for the rest of the stuff, it's better to pretend that Part 4 doesn't exist..

But Part 4 DOES exist. She doesn't live up to her hype but that doesn't take away from her list of things that make her super-special. Daein never stops adoring her either. The game ends with her becoming its ruler.

I've seen decent arguments on both sides concerning whether she's a Sue. The lack of a single concrete definition of what exactly constitutes a Sue everyone can agree on definitely doesn't help end the matter. You asked why people still considered her one, so I gave some reasons why some people who consider her one do so.

[Constable Reggie]

It still doesn't take away from the fact that she's shown not to be able to fulfill in desperate situations. Hell, she's basically mia in Part 4 because of Yune.

Daien or anyone can worship her all they want, if she's shown not be able to live up to that legacy, she's not a Sue.

[Loki Laufeyson]

So, uh, why do people keep considering Micaiah a Mary Sue. She's one of the few lords who shows the inability to live up to the standards set for her.

So uh, what part of my post said she was a Sue? Cuz i said "she toes the line" which is different from actually being a Sue.

And this is getting off topic and annoying so lets move on.

My favorite lord from a game i have not finished/played has to be Sigurd.

[PKL]

Marth is my fave ever since fe12. He's also my main in smash so im biased.

Least favorite: *raises flame shield* I h8 fe4 so sigurd. But roy is also awful

[LycopolisKing]

Favorites:

1. Marth

2. Chrom

3. Ephraim

Least Favorites:

1. Hector. <- This. A lot.

2. RD Ike.

3. Micaiah

Marth easily wins by favorite for being so darn nice all the time. I was really impressed and taken by his attitude, and I glad that he is the one that started the series, as he makes a statement about the ideals of all of the games. He's rather intelligent, but his naiveté balances him into a highly empathetic character. And he's earned my sympathy for pulling himself together throughout all the time he was biting his nails about Elice, Caeda, and his kindgom. But mostly Elice.

Second, just beating out Ephraim, is Chrom. His lighthearted side has really grown on me. He has integrity and is quick to forgive, and is a well-rounded unit as well (except for that pitiful resistance). It was during the DLC that I realized he had beat out Ephraim for second favorite... (When Elincia calls him out on his odd comments and he hastily changes the subject.) Only because he actually has a sense of humor to back up his exploits, while Ephraim, though a beast, doesn't.

Hector is by far my least favorite lord. Gameplay wise, I could never get him to be the least bit useful besides barely surviving so that he isn't massacred when I can't deselect him, he fails at all things speed, which happens to be the stat I hold in the highest regard when putting together armies, he's dumb as a post and rude to boot, and really isn't crucial to the story at all. He just feels tacked on, and if it weren't for FE6 coming before him I would see no point to his existence.

Ike was fine in POR, and I actually kind of liked him, but he just became an "Idiot Meathead" in RD. It was rather sad.

I tried to like Micaiah. Really, I did. But her whole bit about selling her soul to darkness was quite alienating, to be honest.

[Iridium]

I'm tempted to change my vote to a pity vote for Celica.

Poor girl has neither a single vote for best or worst. I kind of feel for her, now.

[Constable Reggie]

So uh, what part of my post said she was a Sue? Cuz i said "she toes the line" which is different from actually being a Sue.

And this is getting off topic and annoying so lets move on.

My favorite lord from a game i have not finished/played has to be Sigurd.

I never said you did (although I could be petty and say technically you did 3 years ago). A lot of people on this forum consider her to be a Mary Sue (queue huge Micaiah Mary Sue thread), so you bringing up the possibility just made me want to know more about it. It's not off topic because we're talking about a character who just so happens to be a lord and aspects of her that could sway popular opinion about said person.

I still personally think chapter 3-11 is the hands down the best chapter in Fe10 because of Micaiah's actions in it. What other lord would even think to try something like that? Chumps like Eliwood would have just kept believing that the power of friendship would have gotten him through that situation.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[-Cynthia-]

But Part 4 DOES exist. She doesn't live up to her hype but that doesn't take away from her list of things that make her super-special. Daein never stops adoring her either. The game ends with her becoming its ruler.

I've seen decent arguments on both sides concerning whether she's a Sue. The lack of a single concrete definition of what exactly constitutes a Sue everyone can agree on definitely doesn't help end the matter. You asked why people still considered her one, so I gave some reasons why some people who consider her one do so.

I don't see how Part 4 makes Micaiah super special- she spends most of it just being a vessel for Yune. Being the only one (for no real reason given) to be able to wield the sword to kill a goddess strikes me as more Sueish than being possessed. Fans are more fine with Ike doing tons of "heroic" things though- I'll attribute a lot of that due to Ike being a character in a previous game. Also he's a guy and culturally we're more ok with 'hero guy' having the spotlight, whereas women get the Sue label.

Edited March 28, 2013 by -Cynthia-

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I never said you did (although I could be petty and say technically you did 3 years ago). A lot of people on this forum consider her to be a Mary Sue (queue huge Micaiah Mary Sue thread), so you bringing up the possibility just made me want to know more about it. It's not off topic because we're talking about a character who just so happens to be a lord and aspects of her that could sway popular opinion about said person.

I still personally think chapter 3-11 is the hands down the best chapter in Fe10 because of Micaiah's actions in it. What other lord would even think to try something like that? Chumps like Eliwood would have just kept believing that the power of friendship would have gotten him through that situation.

I have not played FE10, but Leif in FE5 is a notorious kidnapper with a sex slave on his army, kidnapped someone to force them into his team twice, and is EXTREMELY manipulative.

He is definitely capable of doing dirty stuff

[Anacybele]

I don't see how Part 4 makes Micaiah super special- she spends most of it just being a vessel for Yune. Being the only one (for no real reason given) to be able to wield the sword to kill a goddess strikes me as more Sueish than being possessed. Fans are more fine with Ike doing tons of "heroic" things though- I'll attribute a lot of that due to Ike being a character in a previous game. Also he's a guy and culturally we're more ok with 'hero guy' having the spotlight, whereas women get the Sue label.

Correction: Ike wasn't the only one able to deal the final blow to Ashera because of Ragnell. He was only able to do it because of Yune loaning her power to him. And I'm assuming she chose him for that because he's the supreme commander of all the armies and probably has the most skill and respect of anyone else.

[NoNameAtAll]

Correction: Ike wasn't the only one able to deal the final blow to Ashera because of Ragnell. He was only able to do it because of Yune loaning her power to him. And I'm assuming she chose him for that because he's the supreme commander of all the armies and probably has the most skill and respect of anyone else.

No, it's only because he's the main character. And I dislike Micaiah almost as much as Ike actually. Ike's just as stu-ish as Micaiah's sue-ness.

[CT075]

bigass argument incoming in 3

[Anacybele]

No, it's only because he's the main character. And I dislike Micaiah almost as much as Ike actually. Ike's just as stu-ish as Micaiah's sue-ness.

Ike's not a Stu. He has plenty of flaws and makes mistakes. He's not worshipped by everyone that respects him either (and those who respect him have good reason to. Those that respect Micaiah just like her because she's the image of a hero to them), nor does he have any super special heritage (being the son of an ex-Daein Rider isn't that special) or super special powers. He's a blunt, stubborn, somewhat reckless, food-loving mercenary that is still kind and caring at the same time. He was deserted by two of his own men for awhile and has accidentally offended more than a few people.

Micaiah is loved by everyone that meets her, is worshipped by Daein, has few character flaws other than her selfishness, and she's even liked by the laguz who are theoretically supposed to hate her. Micaiah is way more Suish.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Anacybele

[RJWalker]

blunt, stubborn, somewhat reckless, food-loving

Every anime lead character stereotype ever.

[BrightBow]

Ike's not a Stu. He has plenty of flaws and makes mistakes. He's not worshipped by everyone that respects him either (and those who respect him have good reason to. Those that respect Micaiah just like her because she's the image of a hero to them), nor does he have any super special heritage (being the son of an ex-Daein Rider isn't that special) or super special powers. He's a blunt, stubborn, somewhat reckless, food-loving mercenary that is still kind and caring at the same time. He was deserted by two of his own men for awhile and has accidentally offended more than a few people.

Ike has no flaws. There was only this one time where he lost his temper towards Sanaki. But normally he is completely calm.

And there is not a trace left of this by Radiant Dawn. Ike had become legendary. Everyone is in awe of him. Even he hotheaded fool like Skrimir. The Daein are the only ones who don't like them. But only because he defeated their nation.

He is such an unbelievable badass, that he wins battles simply by stepping on the battlefield.

Tauroeno: General Ike has reached us... We've failed.

Micaiah is the only non-villain who doesn't like him. And even she learns in chapter 3-13 that Ike really is just as awesome as Sothe makes him out to be.

Micaiah is loved by everyone that meets her, is worshipped by Daein, has few character flaws other than her selfishness, and she's even liked by the laguz who are theoretically supposed to hate her. Micaiah is way more Suish.

Micaiah didn't join the rebellion for her personal fame but because she wanted to help the DAein people. Selfishness is the one flaw that she doesn't have.

She is overreliant at her powers, as best seen when she trusts Pelleas order to go to war, simply because she felt that he is doing in for the best of Daein. A technically true assumption but overlooks the fact that Pelleas' perspective might be clouded.

It also leads her to emphasized too with the Daein people. Because she saw them from her best side, she not only overlooks their rascism but also adopted their hatred of Ike.

Her self sacrifice also goes far beyond what's sane, ending with her passing out during critical situations.

And keep in mind, how the story judges her abilities when compared to Ike. She is the underdog in every encounter they are in.

The only time she got a good hit in, was when she destroyed the Crimean army. But only because nobody in the Apostle's army could believe that Micaiah could be that evil. Well, she showed them.

And even that battle ended instantly when Ike showed up. She only got away because Sanaki spared her.

And the Daein people are irrational nutcases. Just look at this gem:

Goran: Followers of the false apostle! Bow down to the miracles of our savior! As long as the Maiden of Dawn watches over us, we cannot be defeated!

You think that those people are supposed to know what they are talking about?

[RNG Princess]

Ike's not a Stu. He has plenty of flaws and makes mistakes. He's not worshipped by everyone that respects him either (and those who respect him have good reason to. Those that respect Micaiah just like her because she's the image of a hero to them), nor does he have any super special heritage (being the son of an ex-Daein Rider isn't that special) or super special powers. He's a blunt, stubborn, somewhat reckless, food-loving mercenary that is still kind and caring at the same time. He was deserted by two of his own men for awhile and has accidentally offended more than a few people.

Micaiah is loved by everyone that meets her, is worshipped by Daein, has few character flaws other than her selfishness, and she's even liked by the laguz who are theoretically supposed to hate her. Micaiah is way more Suish.

Micaiah has flaws and makes many mistakes too and it's strange because she's supposed to have psychic powers. She's also not worshiped like you say she is, her own soldiers question her and can desert her like Ike's Shinnon deserted him. The difference is that she gets her screen time stolen away by Ike. The people that look up to her are those believing her from freeing their country as much as people of Crimea looked up to Ike when they learned of his doings. It's weird that he has no super special heritage or super special powers yet somehow he's the only one that can use Altina's swords when he isn't even her descendant and the only one being credited to uniting the laguz and beorc races despite Elincia's and the contributions of the others. It's also strange that Yune turns out basically worshiping Ike at the end and forgets all about Micaiah other than to utilize her to glorify Ike despite that Micaiah was the character that nurtured her in her sleep.

[Anacybele]

Ike has no flaws. There was only this one time where he lost his temper towards Sanaki. But normally he is completely calm.

And there is not a trace left of this by Radiant Dawn. Ike had become legendary. Everyone is in awe of him. Even he hotheaded fool like Skrimir. The Daein are the only ones who don't like them. But only because he defeated their nation.

Did you read a word of my post? I listed some of Ike's flaws. And Ike is respected by so many people because he worked for it. And very hard. He risked his LIFE for hundreds of others in the process. Micaiah hardly had to do anything to get Daein to worship her. They pretty much just went "Oh, silver-haired girl that has magic healing powers and fortune telling! She's our hero!"

He is such an unbelievable badass, that he wins battles simply by stepping on the battlefield.

Tauroeno: General Ike has reached us... We've failed.

I don't recall this at all. And just because ONE PERSON believes they're going to fail just because Ike is there doesn't mean everyone has that mindset.

Micaiah is the only non-villain who doesn't like him. And even she learns in chapter 3-13 that Ike really is just as awesome as Sothe makes him out to be.

Shinon says hi. And so do the other characters whom Ike had to work to earn the respect of. Reyson, Tibarn, Sanaki, Ranulf, and others.

Micaiah didn't join the rebellion for her personal fame but because she wanted to help the DAein people. Selfishness is the one flaw that she doesn't have.

Daein is the ONLY thing she cares about (and I include the DB in this statement). She didn't think at all how other countries might have suffered at the hands of her own nation during the Mad King's War. See my post on the first page.

She is overreliant at her powers, as best seen when she trusts Pelleas order to go to war, simply because she felt that he is doing in for the best of Daein. A technically true assumption but overlooks the fact that Pelleas' perspective might be clouded.

It also leads her to emphasized too with the Daein people. Because she saw them from her best side, she not only overlooks their rascism but also adopted their hatred of Ike.

Her self sacrifice also goes far beyond what's sane, ending with her passing out during critical situations.

And keep in mind, how the story judges her abilities when compared to Ike. She is the underdog in every encounter they are in.

The only time she got a good hit in, was when she destroyed the Crimean army. But only because nobody in the Apostle's army could believe that Micaiah could be that evil. Well, she showed them.

And even that battle ended instantly when Ike showed up. She only got away because Sanaki spared her.

And the Daein people are irrational nutcases. Just look at this gem:

Goran: Followers of the false apostle! Bow down to the miracles of our savior! As long as the Maiden of Dawn watches over us, we cannot be defeated!

You think that those people are supposed to know what they are talking about?

The enemy even spares her. And people blindly worship her just for the sake of it. My point exactly. She's given far too much good treatment, which made her come off as Suish to me.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Anacybele

[Constable Reggie]

I have not played FE10, but Leif in FE5 is a notorious kidnapper with a sex slave on his army, kidnapped someone to force them into his team twice, and is EXTREMELY manipulative.

He is definitely capable of doing dirty stuff

He's not manipulative, he's manipulatable. Capturing Lifis was Eyvel's (his mentor) idea, and the other two situations they were convinced to join him (assuming you're talking about Trewd and Misha) *edit: Forgot Salem too, this one's definitely ambiguous. The one time he decides to makes a big decision on his own, and he screws up royally. It's kind of the whole point that he's really not that competent to lead on his own (herpa derp lemme walk into this fort 5 feet away from manster and get captured).

I still personally think chapter 3-11 is the hands down the best chapter in Fe10

My bad, I meant 3-12.

Micaiah hardly had to do anything to get Daein to worship her. They pretty much just went "Oh, silver-haired girl that has magic healing powers and fortune telling! She's our hero!"

Uh, that's kind of the point. They're not worshipping Micaiah, they're worshipping a perfect image of her.

I don't recall this at all. And just because ONE PERSON believes they're going to fail just because Ike is there doesn't mean everyone has that mindset.

You'd think a high general who's actually sided with him before would have the most logical mindset in that situation.

She didn't think at all how other countries might have suffered at the hands of her own nation during the Mad King's War.

Kind of the point. She wants to help Daien, but fails miserably and has to resort to awful tactics just to try. She's not perfect, she just tries to be (and fails miserably).

The enemy even spares her. And people blindly worship her just for the sake of it. My point exactly. She's given far too much good treatment, which made her come off as Suish to me.

The definition of a Sue isn't being given special treatment (because this could be from anything, not just a person's superiority), it's by showing that she's superior, to the point of being perfect.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Rapier]

Ike has no flaws. There was only this one time where he lost his temper towards Sanaki. But normally he is completely calm.

And there is not a trace left of this by Radiant Dawn. Ike had become legendary. Everyone is in awe of him. Even he hotheaded fool like Skrimir. The Daein are the only ones who don't like them. But only because he defeated their nation.

Ike is recognized worldwide (except Begnion, Kilvas and Daein), and there are many reasons for this. Recall all the things he did on PoR and the trials he went through, and you'll see why Gallia praises him, and why the Hawk tribe also recognizes him. No wonder Skrimir is awed, since Ike is very well known in Gallia. And he proves that he isn't a pushover too.

Micaiah easily became the paragon of Daein, even before she got to do anything fruitful. Really, fighting for her country by fending off bandits is a very simple thing. It doesn't justify her awesome status that Pelleas and Izuka recognize right off the bat.

Just think about Robin Hood and make a comparisson. She's a Sue because she never did anything worth of praise at that point.

He is such an unbelievable badass, that he wins battles simply by stepping on the battlefield.

Tauroeno: General Ike has reached us... We've failed.

OBJECTION!

General Ike refers to the whole army, it's a hiperbole. Since he's leading an overwhelming army, one must associate "General Ike has arrived" with his army as well. Unless you mean he was supposed to solo them.

Micaiah is the only non-villain who doesn't like him. And even she learns in chapter 3-13 that Ike really is just as awesome as Sothe makes him out to be.

And what's the problem with Ike being a badass? He fought agaisnt underwhelming odds in the Mad King War, he managed to retaliate only with Begnion's help. That campaign has fleshed him out quite a lot.

She is overreliant at her powers, as best seen when she trusts Pelleas order to go to war, simply because she felt that he is doing in for the best of Daein. A technically true assumption but overlooks the fact that Pelleas' perspective might be clouded.

It also leads her to emphasized too with the Daein people. Because she saw them from her best side, she not only overlooks their rascism but also adopted their hatred of Ike.

Her self sacrifice also goes far beyond what's sane, ending with her passing out during critical situations.

She must be totally good natured and silly to believe the same thing the people does (Laguz prejudice), even after meeting with Nailah and Rafiel, and believing an obviously weak and silly king who never gave a reason for them to believe on him at all is stupid at best.

I mean, she didn't even question him. Even after the cowardly ambush, she believed blindly on his excuse, thus accepting the destruction of her own country even before knowing about the blood pact. Micaiah lacks common sense and can't use logic to save her life.

The only time she got a good hit in, was when she destroyed the Crimean army. But only because nobody in the Apostle's army could believe that Micaiah could be that evil. Well, she showed them.

And even that battle ended instantly when Ike showed up. She only got away because Sanaki spared her.

Correction: That battle ended instantly when Ike's overwhelming army of more than ten thousand men arrived. Also, she got a good hit against the Laguz Alliance in Chapter 5 (or was it 6? 7? idk), even though it was an ambush. And the only reason she had an easy time with the Laguz but a harder time with Ike is because the later's army wasn't as weakened as the former's, it wasn't an ambush, and their difference in numbers (Ike commanded an army at that point, not only 13 soldiers like the game wants us to believe).

Edited March 28, 2013 by Rapier

[Sublime Manic]

I don't see how Part 4 makes Micaiah super special- she spends most of it just being a vessel for Yune. Being the only one (for no real reason given) to be able to wield the sword to kill a goddess strikes me as more Sueish than being possessed. Fans are more fine with Ike doing tons of "heroic" things though- I'll attribute a lot of that due to Ike being a character in a previous game. Also he's a guy and culturally we're more ok with 'hero guy' having the spotlight, whereas women get the Sue label.

The only reason I mentioned part 4 at all is because Constabble Reggie said we ought pretend it doesn't exist. The revelation that Micaiah is Sanaki's older sister happens it part 4, also, revealing her super-special heritage, which is what I was referring to when I said super-special heritage in my first post talking about this at all. Of course, being the only vessel for a deity sounds rather super-special, too. You make a very good point, although Roy, who is winning the least favorite award by a substantial margin, and Seliph definitely get their share of flack.

And the Sue/Stu wars of FE10 have erupted yet again, it seems. The minute Ike got brought up in what was a discussion about just Micaiah, it was inevitable. Until people agree on a single concrete definition, it'll never end.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Sublime Manic

[Rapier]

I don't believe Micaiah to be a Sue, actually. I really like her, infact. I just think she is a poorly executed character.

Nor do I believe Ike's a Sue. I believe there is justification on him being so badass in FE10.

[Constable Reggie]

The only reason I mentioned part 4 at all is because Constabble Reggie said we ought pretend it doesn't exist.

It was a joke. Part 4 doesn't even do much for Micaiah, since Yune's taken center stage for most of the part and turning out to be royalty doesn't suddenly make her previous desperation disappear. You could be emperor of the universe for all I care, you're still not perfect if you have to sneakily (and horribly) set people on fire to keep that title.

Your image or heritage don't define you as a person, your actions do.

Just think about Robin Hood and make a comparisson. She's a Sue because she never did anything worth of praise at that point.

Why is this being held against her? Thomas Edison is considered a legend among many people, does that suddenly excuse the fact that he stole the glory from Tesla and destroyed him in the process?

Edited March 28, 2013 by Constable Reggie