Serge's Pairing Polls Part 2: Elincia!

[Anacybele]

fire emblem: even when it's not incest somebody will be mad enough to accuse it of being incest

do you actually understand what a milk-sibling is or did your mind just register the word sibling and go for it since it's geoffrey and therefore must be morally repugnant

1. I said BORDERLINE incest, not that it absolutely WAS incest. Meaning, it's not incest exactly, but it's very close and way too close for my tastes.

2. Yes, I know what a milk sibling is. It's like a foster/step sibling. And I have stepbrothers close in age to me, but I feel it would be very awkward if I were to marry one of them.

I'd very much like it if you took those words back NOW. Who are you to decide that I like GeoffxElincia because I like milk siblings going after one another.

That's just throwing everyone in one large group, and 90 % of everyone probably doesn't belong in that group.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that everyone who does like it is immediately into incest!

First off, chill. Second, if you notice, I was GENERALIZING and not talking about you in particular. I've simply noticed that a lot of members here like incest and homosexual pairings. That is all. I never said YOU liked them.

I don't know why I bother with this thread. Ike and Elincia seriously need more votes though. I guess most of the many the fans I've found on the net either aren't members here or haven't voted/seen this thread yet. Oh well.

[Vicious Sal]

1. I said BORDERLINE incest, not that it absolutely WAS incest. Meaning, it's not incest exactly, but it's very close and way too close for my tastes.

2. Yes, I know what a milk sibling is. It's like a foster/step sibling. And I have stepbrothers close in age to me, but I feel it would be very awkward if I were to marry one of them.

First off, chill. Second, if you notice, I was GENERALIZING and not talking about you in particular. I've simply noticed that a lot of members here like incest and homosexual pairings. That is all. I never said YOU liked them.

I don't know why I bother with this thread. Ike and Elincia seriously need more votes though. I guess most of the many the fans I've found on the net either aren't members here or haven't voted/seen this thread yet. Oh well.

If you were generalizing, that means you were counting an entire group as one with the same tastes [=Liking incest] If you are generalizing, you included me, and everyone else who doesn't fit into this group. So far I have seen ZERO comments about seriously liking ElinciaxGeoff for the "incest" and one possibly joking vote. Anacybele, I DARE you to count the amount of comments that like GeoffxElincia for incest and the ones that like it for being the knight in shining armour. So you can't say "That is all" since it clearl is far from "all", actually, looking at the entire topic, it is pretty much negligible. For the record, generalizing means you say everyone like/dislikes a certain thing, not specifically stating I like something does not mean that you never said it.

Also I'm willing to bet a million dollars that if Elinxike fans would dominate this thread you'd be bothering with it a great deal

The topic Isn't favoring you opinion so the topic is bad. Way to go, clearly showing you aren't biased in any way (that was a reference to an earlier thread post you made fyi)

Point in case, take back what you said, be grown up enough to be able to swallow your own words.

[Anacybele]

If you were generalizing, that means you were counting an entire group as one with the same tastes [=Liking incest] If you are generalizing, you included me, and everyone else who doesn't fit into this group. So far I have seen ZERO comments about seriously liking ElinciaxGeoff for the "incest" and one possibly joking vote. Anacybele, I DARE you to count the amount of comments that like GeoffxElincia for incest and the ones that like it for being the knight in shining armour. So you can't say "That is all" since it clearl is far from "all", actually, looking at the entire topic, it is pretty much negligible. For the record, generalizing means you say everyone like/dislikes a certain thing, not specifically stating I like something does not mean that you never said it.

No, by generalizing, I mean I'm saying a majority of members here seem to like incest and homosexual pairings. I wasn't trying to rat out any one individual.

Also I'm willing to bet a million dollars that if Elinxike fans would dominate this thread you'd be bothering with it a great deal

Actually, I wouldn't. It's so I'd avoid a huge debate on the subject. Because to be honest, I hate debating about it.

The topic Isn't favoring you opinion so the topic is bad. Way to go, clearly showing you aren't biased in any way (that was a reference to an earlier thread post you made fyi)

lol. And you're clearly showing that you're not making way too big a deal out of this.

Point in case, take back what you said, be grown up enough to be able to swallow your own words.

Excuse me, but you have no right to tell me what and what not to say.

[CT075]

i was going to leave the thread well alone but some of the things said are amusing enough to make me vote elincia/geoff out of spite

[Integrity]

i like the implication that homosexuality is as morally repugnant as incest

2. Yes, I know what a milk sibling is. It's like a foster/step sibling. And I have stepbrothers close in age to me, but I feel it would be very awkward if I were to marry one of them.

not quite. There's no reason that Geoffrey and Elincia had to be raised either to consider each other as family or even in especially close proximity. The only thing milk-sibling implies is that they were fed by the same wet nurse and brought up as companions.

EDIT: In fact, there would be evidence to suggest that Geoffrey and Elincia WEREN'T brought up together, since he would be learning to be a STRONG BRAVE MAN and she'd be cloistered off (with her milk-sister) learning the manners of the court.

Incidentally, I know Lucia is Elincia's milk-sister, but does it ever state explicitly that Geoffrey is her milk-brother? It's quite possible to have one without the other.

EDIT: And before I forget the official part of this post: Sal, Anacybele, apologize to each other and then subsequently chill the hell out pls.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Integrity

[Xinnidy]

I was expecting some FE13!Cherche Tellius crack pairings

I'm mildly disappointed~

Then I remembered I already voted on this somehow, I think somebody linked the poll to me and I forgot.

Anyways my reasons are pretty much:

If RD wasn't a thing I could see IkeElincia purely on PoR, but Ike's ending in RD pretty much debunks that hard. So yeah. The pairing where both parties are mutually interested in each other is good.

Whenever I played FE10, I felt as if Ike's relationship with Elincia... sorta downgraded. The trust and things I felt present in FE9 were no longer as screaming, they were more like... only acquaintances. So yeah, blame FE10 for that. :/

i like the implication that homosexuality is as morally repugnant as incest

I can see it being an Unintentional Implication™ myself, from what I read.

doop.

[Anacybele]

EDIT: In fact, there would be evidence to suggest that Geoffrey and Elincia WEREN'T brought up together, since he would be learning to be a STRONG BRAVE MAN and she'd be cloistered off (with her milk-sister) learning the manners of the court.

Except Elincia was not "cloistered off" to learn the ways of the court and how to rule a kingdom. She was raised alongside Lucia and Geoffrey, whom she considered sibling figures. These words aren't stated exactly, but they're implied.

Incidentally, I know Lucia is Elincia's milk-sister, but does it ever state explicitly that Geoffrey is her milk-brother? It's quite possible to have one without the other.

Geoffrey's support conversation with Callil in PoR implies that he and Lucia had known Elincia since they were pretty young and that they were all very close. I think it's safe to assume that both Geoffrey AND Lucia were Elincia's milk/foster/step siblings. RD's description of Geoffrey might actually state this as well. I don't remember.

EDIT: And before I forget the official part of this post: Sal, Anacybele, apologize to each other and then subsequently chill the hell out pls.

Fine. xP I'm sorry, for both the argument and it starting in the first place.

Also, I never mentioned this, but I do like GeoffreyxElincia as a very close sibling relationship. I think they'd look very cute in a scene such as young Geoffrey giving little Elincia a piggyback ride or something. x3

Edited April 4, 2013 by Anacybele

[Shotguner159]

Also, I never mentioned this, but I do like GeoffreyxElincia as a very close sibling relationship. I think they'd look very cute in a scene such as young Geoffrey giving little Elincia a piggyback ride or something. x3

Geoffrey's younger than Elincia. Unless you mean Geoffrey was bigger when they were kids.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Shotguner159

[PresidentEden]

well this thread went downhill faster than Ike x Elincia after FE9

[Anacybele]

Geoffrey's younger than Elincia. Unless you mean Geoffrey was bigger when they were kids.

Who says? This isn't stated anywhere in the games. And Geoffrey looks way older than her. He can't possibly be younger. :/

EDIT: Oh, I find it funny how the votes for GeoffreyxElincia only shot up AFTER that little argument.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Anacybele

[Narga_Rocks]

i like the implication that homosexuality is as morally repugnant as incest

Where do you read that?

"I mean I'm saying a majority of members here seem to like incest and homosexual pairings."

First off, she's stating what seems to be an opinion on the readerbase. She's a little off, since my topic in SD seemed to show 50/50 for incest on this board. But let's say she was right and a majority of the members did like incest and homosexual pairings. I see no judgment call on the moral repugnantness of either.

That aside, how dare you call two people loving each other morally repugnant! Who cares if they share blood!

Doesn't feel so good to be called out for your opinions, does it?

[PresidentEden]

The use of the term "rat out" -- as though having relatively more favorable views on gay or lesbian or incestuous pairings is some dirty thing over which one would be ratted out -- in description of both incestuous and gay/lesbian pairings, in the same clause, during a discussion about how one of them is bad and horrible and blahblahblah, would at least imply what Integrity was referencing. It's quite a stretch to act as though the implication isn't there and even more of one to try to run interference and pretend it isn't there.

In any case, the discussion is moot because Geoffrey x Elincia isn't incestuous in the least. "Milk siblings" means you had the same wet nurse. They aren't biologically related at all. They may have been raised as friends growing up, but I'm sure everyone has at least heard of, if not met, a couple that's been "friends since they were little" and who developed romantic feelings as they entered adulthood. It's a classic American trope. One would have to have some kind of significant pre-inquiry bias and zero intention of addressing it to conclude incest.

That of course doesn't mean one has to back Geoffrey x Elincia, but trying to dismiss it as incest is stupid.

[Vicious Sal]

No, by generalizing, I mean I'm saying a majority of members here seem to like incest and homosexual pairings. I wasn't trying to rat out any one individual.

Actually, I wouldn't. It's so I'd avoid a huge debate on the subject. Because to be honest, I hate debating about it.

lol. And you're clearly showing that you're not making way too big a deal out of this.

Excuse me, but you have no right to tell me what and what not to say.

The entire point of the concept "generalizing" means that you take a broad group and fit them all into the same box. Which is what you did, my entire point was that you had fit me into a box which I don't want to belong to. I know you didn't rat me out, because you were taking a broad grasp and thus not singling out individuals. Instead of saying Person 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc all like incest, You just said "those people like incest", which still includes me, which I find offensive.

No comments on the second point because it'd start an entire new argument.

i'll apologize for losing my temper which wasn't needed.

I'd still like it if you would take back those words, would you like it if I said that you like something that is considered not done by society? By saying the GxE voter liked incest you potentially offended a lot of people.

It'd be the same as saying "There's people voting IxE because they're all druggies after all." <Unserious

[Shotguner159]

Who says? This isn't stated anywhere in the games. And Geoffrey looks way older than her. He can't possibly be younger. :/

Lucia is Geoffrey's older sibling. Lucia is unquestionably Elincia's Milk Sibling, while we're unsure whether or not Geoffrey is her Milk Brother. Therefore, Elincia and Lucia must be about the same age, which makes Elincia older than Geoffrey.

[Integrity]

Where do you read that?

The use of the term "rat out" -- as though having relatively more favorable views on gay or lesbian or incestuous pairings is some dirty thing over which one would be ratted out -- in description of both incestuous and gay/lesbian pairings, in the same clause, during a discussion about how one of them is bad and horrible and blahblahblah, would at least imply what Integrity was referencing. It's quite a stretch to act as though the implication isn't there and even more of one to try to run interference and pretend it isn't there.

In any case, the discussion is moot because Geoffrey x Elincia isn't incestuous in the least. "Milk siblings" means you had the same wet nurse. They aren't biologically related at all. They may have been raised as friends growing up, but I'm sure everyone has at least heard of, if not met, a couple that's been "friends since they were little" and who developed romantic feelings as they entered adulthood. It's a classic American trope. One would have to have some kind of significant pre-inquiry bias and zero intention of addressing it to conclude incest.

That of course doesn't mean one has to back Geoffrey x Elincia, but trying to dismiss it as incest is stupid.

Heaven knows I don't always agree with this guy, but he nailed it pretty hard.

[Narga_Rocks]

The use of the term "rat out" -- as though having relatively more favorable views on gay or lesbian or incestuous pairings is some dirty thing over which one would be ratted out -- in description of both incestuous and gay/lesbian pairings, in the same clause, during a discussion about how one of them is bad and horrible and blahblahblah, would at least imply what Integrity was referencing. It's quite a stretch to act as though the implication isn't there and even more of one to try to run interference and pretend it isn't there.

In any case, the discussion is moot because Geoffrey x Elincia isn't incestuous in the least. "Milk siblings" means you had the same wet nurse. They aren't biologically related at all. They may have been raised as friends growing up, but I'm sure everyone has at least heard of, if not met, a couple that's been "friends since they were little" and who developed romantic feelings as they entered adulthood. It's a classic American trope. One would have to have some kind of significant pre-inquiry bias and zero intention of addressing it to conclude incest.

That of course doesn't mean one has to back Geoffrey x Elincia, but trying to dismiss it as incest is stupid.

Still a stretch on your part, not mine. She said she wasn't trying to rat anyone out. And really she was just carrying the theme of Sal's posts.

Anyway, here's the trail of this topic

Ana made a post about how she feels this board likes their pairings. The more incestual or homosexual the better. Right or wrong, that's her belief. Still no judgment call. Vicious Sal gets pissed because even though she was implying a large number of people on the board and not everyone, he decided to interpret as a personal statement about him and got all pissy. She was trying to tell him that she wasn't saying that about everyone. Is her choice of words bad? Maybe. Is it an automatic unassailable implication that she believes homosexuality is "as morally repugnant as incest?" I believe no. You believe yes. She hasn't stood up for herself about this one way or another so maybe you are right, but can you consider that it is possible you aren't?

As for G and E, they weren't raised as siblings, fine, however they were apparently all raised in the same house or whatever. At least it seems that way. In fe9 Elincia appears to think of Geoffrey and Lucia more as siblings. Any romantic inclinations came out of nowhere in fe10. Geoffrey's was obvious in fe9, but Elincia's was not. The first romantic indication of Elinicia's feelings are basically when they get married (assuming we ignore the potential political reasons of the marriage), though if they had real support convos in fe10 they could have fixed that. Half of this board has a fascination with incest pairings so Ana isn't surprised at all that anything even close to incest is popular. Maybe you aren't even consciously aware that you like Geoffrey and Elincia because it's similar to incest. Did someone say Geoffrey is younger? He always seemed older to me, and Elincia perfectly fits the adoring little sister trope. Maybe that's part of why some people like it?

Also, I'm serious about my so-called interference. Integ pretty clearly implied that incest is morally repugnant. How come HE gets to decide which pairing of people loving each other is good and which pairing of consensual adults loving each other is bad? Let's say for the sake of argument that Ana is saying she doesn't like either homosexuality or incest, as I'll admit that is one possible interpretation of her statements. Is that so wrong? Frankly I applaud her consistency and bravery in stating such opinion when it is so looked down on here and disapprove of Integ's double-standard, but that's just me.

[Integrity]

what in the fuck

nope. I'm just gonna nope right out of here. This isn't even worth it. Have your fucking victory, Narga.

[Jedi]

Also, I'm serious about my so-called interference. Integ pretty clearly implied that incest is morally repugnant. How come HE gets to decide which pairing of people loving each other is good and which pairing of consensual adults loving each other is bad? Let's say for the sake of argument that Ana is saying she doesn't like either homosexuality or incest, as I'll admit that is one possible interpretation of her statements. Is that so wrong? Frankly I applaud her consistency and bravery in stating such opinion when it is so looked down on here and disapprove of Integ's double-standard, but that's just me.

What makes you any more able to decide it? just looks like you are getting on some moral highhorse and looking down on those who DARE, DARE I say defend why GeoxElincia isn't incest but no, you are like "I'm superior to everyone on this board, I have every single statistic of what they like, what to defend and how to defend it, you cannot be right because I am the only one ever right"

[Narga_Rocks]

Sorry? It's too bad you (integ) aren't responding, because I honestly want to know why it's "bad" to disapprove of homosexuality and "good" to disapprove of incest. That's one of the things I was trying to figure out in my SD topic. I've always looked at it as a double-standard. Why don't people just say "If it makes you both happy" or "as long as you are both choosing this and capable of choosing this".

Some people give a slippery slope argument about bestiality and necrofilia, but I don't see that working. It can't be consensual. An animal can't make a choice nor can a dead person. It's similar to why a pedofilic incest relationship would be wrong. A child also can't really "choose" knowing all the implications and understand what they are doing and everything. But two twenty year old siblings/cousins? Or, ick because I don't like intergenerational pairings incest or otherwise, (sorry that might be wrong of me to disapprove) a parent/grown child that's like 45 and 22 or something? Or how about one guy/woman and two other women/guys? If all three love each other equally and choose to be in that situation?

I get how society can say "straight one-on-one pairings only". I understand that it comes from centuries of belief and so stepping out from that into the "abnormal" was a very hard thing for many people to do and it started in the US only like 20 to 50 years ago or something. Even interracial was a very hard thing for some people to accept for some odd reason. But once you break the original barrier of "straight one-on-one same race pairings" why is it so hard to go a couple steps further and accept other consenting relationships?

Oh, and Jedi, what do you think I'm saying, anyway? Tell me in your own words so I actually have a place to respond from.

[Shin]

Ana is fully entitled to like or dislike what she wants. However, there comes a problem when she vocalises them in a way which offends people. Ana should be able to support IkexElincia if she wishes, I have no problems with it. However, to go and call the entire population of SF incest supporting deviants isn't. It doesn't really matter whether the pairing is incestuous or not. I, and a great deal of other people, believe it isn't but hey.

Also, to put homosexuality on par with incest is rather unpleasant for a good number of people. Again, Ana can think what she wants, but again, to voice such an opinion without expecting outcry isn't reasonable.

Narga, Integrity doesn't decide what's good or bad. He happens to have opinions which are well within most people's normal moral compass. I don't see that he's implied that his opinion is fact anywhere, it's just that his opinion is very similar to a lot of people's, I see no double standard here.

[Fruity Insanity]

I find it extremely intriguing how almost every single paring poll ends up on a discussion on homosexuality and incest in Fire Emblem.

lol :P

[Narga_Rocks]

Ana is fully entitled to like or dislike what she wants. However, there comes a problem when she vocalises them in a way which offends people. Ana should be able to support IkexElincia if she wishes, I have no problems with it. However, to go and call the entire population of SF incest supporting deviants isn't. It doesn't really matter whether the pairing is incestuous or not. I, and a great deal of other people, believe it isn't but hey.

deviants?

Also, to put homosexuality on par with incest is rather unpleasant for a good number of people. Again, Ana can think what she wants, but again, to voice such an opinion without expecting outcry isn't reasonable.

Granted she should expect outcry. I've told her before that if she wants to avoid arguments there are certain things she should hold back. I'm just commenting on this fact that pairing homosexuality with incest is unpleasant for a good number of people. I suspect this fact to be unpleasant to anyone who has dabbled in incest or further someone that is currently in an incestual relationship. "They can do what they want but when we do what we want it's bad."

Narga, Integrity doesn't decide what's good or bad. He happens to have opinions which are well within most people's normal moral compass. I don't see that he's implied that his opinion is fact anywhere, it's just that his opinion is very similar to a lot of people's, I see no double standard here.

The double standard I see is to allow one consensual relationship but disallow another. I agree that his opinion "homosexuality okay, incest and polygamy are bad" is very very common. (Although "polygamy is okay" is more common here than "incest is okay" so maybe I shouldn't lump those two together) I however see that as a double standard.

Anyway, Integ is entitled to his opinion just like he is entitled to his opinion of Ana's opinion. Similarly, I am entitled to my opinion of his opinion and apparently yours, and my opinion is that there is a double standard. And you are entitled to your opinion of my opinion of your opinion. etc. We are all entitled to our opinions, and if person A is entitled to state that person B is a ninny for their opinion, then person C should be entitled to say the same of person A.

[Freohr Datia]

I wouldn't go making these assumptions until you know why he doesn't support incest... I don't know either though so I can't say much more than that...

And as for which pairing I prefer... I've never really given much thought about that at all. I honestly think both pairings have sounded pretty cute~ Although it kinda looks like the second game shifted toward GeoffreyxElincia, but I guess I can't let the game decide for me which I prefer, anyway...

[Narga_Rocks]

I wouldn't go making these assumptions until you know why he doesn't support incest... I don't know either though so I can't say much more than that...

And as for which pairing I prefer... I've never really given much thought about that at all. I honestly think both pairings have sounded pretty cute~ Although it kinda looks like the second game shifted toward GeoffreyxElincia, but I guess I can't let the game decide for me which I prefer, anyway...

Granted, there may be some deep abiding reason for it that trumps all other arguments. If that's the case and he has something beyond "incest is ikky" then I apologize profusely. And if it's a private matter, he obviously doesn't need to tell us... nor does he really need me to tell him he doesn't need to tell us, I suppose.

As for Elincia, you are right the second game shifted greatly toward GxE. And Ana and I have tended to do what you said at the end, not let the game decide for us.

[Murdok Dracul]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Elincia x Bastian.

Personally I think Elincia x Volke has a little going for it even though they only have like one conversation ever. Wouldn't it be fun to pair a princess with an assassin?

But anyway, I voted Elincia x Geoffrey because it's obvious, and canonical.

You know, I can only fathom that this thread was actually made in order to discretely draw Anacybele into an argument. Which, personally, I would find pretty hilarious.

Elincia perfectly fits the adoring little sister trope. Maybe that's part of why some people like it?

Ewewewewewewewewewewewewewewewewewewewew. I'm so glad I don't have a little sister.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Murdok Dracul