Baldrick Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 (edited) It's a philosphy. A unit is worth more than the amount of turns they save. I know he's a broken record but you aren't going to win that way. Snowy wasn't hypothesising a law of the universe (G=>T,T=/>G) Edited October 13, 2013 by Huck Finn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 (edited) snowy please don't try to group yourself with other people who don't like LTC-centric lists, we don't want you either on topic: does anyone actually care about tiers anymore? Edited October 13, 2013 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Besides the people who argue them in the first place? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 on topic: does anyone actually care about tiers anymore? nope not even the people who argue in them care they just need to abnegate their existence for a few minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What would happen if, whenever a strategy or set-up for a character was brought up, people asked 'what if that doesn't happen?' Ergo, instead of getting characters who can be great when optimized, have multiple redundencies/ways they can be good as opposed to one way to be great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What would happen if, whenever a strategy or set-up for a character was brought up, people asked 'what if that doesn't happen?' Ergo, instead of getting characters who can be great when optimized, have multiple redundencies/ways they can be good as opposed to one way to be great? the word ergo is only ever used by people who have no idea what theyre talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 *sigh* You know what? You guys have made it blatantly clear over the years that anyone not part of your tiering group is unwelcome, doubly so for me. I've put up with all the jeers and mockery for years because I believed that, somehow, things could get better and, at the least, people would stop being so exclusive regarding tiers. But you know what? I'm done. Congrats. You're free of the 'evil troll Snowy'. Have fun bickering over one turn reductions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 It's like Red Fox said; people are happy with the tiering standards they have already. Your problem Snowy, is that you try and force people to look at it your way. That only leads to confrontation and hurt feelings all around. Just make your own tier list, though it might not get much attention apart from those looking to put it down. That's the state tiering is in ATM. The lesson we can derive from all this is let people do what they want, and that ergo and abnegate are fun to say, even more so together in quick succession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 *sigh* You know what? You guys have made it blatantly clear over the years that anyone not part of your tiering group is unwelcome, doubly so for me. I've put up with all the jeers and mockery for years because I believed that, somehow, things could get better and, at the least, people would stop being so exclusive regarding tiers. But you know what? I'm done. Congrats. You're free of the 'evil troll Snowy'. Have fun bickering over one turn reductions. its funny because im ostracized from "the tiering group" as well i just take out my frustration on you because youre the only person they dislike more than me it makes me feel socially included Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What would happen if, whenever a strategy or set-up for a character was brought up, people asked 'what if that doesn't happen?' Ergo, instead of getting characters who can be great when optimized, have multiple redundencies/ways they can be good as opposed to one way to be great? We shouldn't have to ask for the odds of something happening if the likelihood of the event is not governed by the in-game RNG. It is preferable in my opinion to simply assume perfect play for any given team composition without necessarily assuming that the same team composition will always be used; by doing things this way, characters will receive less credit for certain action(s) if a specific team composition is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickster Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Forgive me if I'm wrong as I've never attempted to tier anything, but wouldn't a good way be to: 1) separate units by classes/weapon types 2) rank them by use in combat/supportive abilities 3) How their stats play out in comparison to the rest of the people in the same Not sure if that works, but it seems solid to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Forgive me if I'm wrong as I've never attempted to tier anything, but wouldn't a good way be to: 1) separate units by classes/weapon types why? 80-90% of a fire emblem cast fill the combat niche, regardless of their class or weapon type. a hero does the same thing as a halberdier does the same thing as a paladin does the same thing as a wyvern lord: they kill stuff. (paladins and wyvern lords are good at a couple of other things too but that's not a reason to separate units by class.) Edited October 23, 2013 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Some tier lists have gone the route of sticking utility units in their own tier, but this seems like a rather lazy solution to me, especially since some utility is more or less useful than some combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) There actually is some merit to splitting the according to classes. Certain classes function in different ways that can appeal to players differently. A player may prefer soldiers, for example, so the only question in their mind is 'how does Nephenee stack up, as a soldier, to Devdan' not 'how does Nephenee stack up to Oscar' as they've already decided that they're using a soldier regardless of how good Oscar is/isn't. Of course, the problem is that this flies in the face of current tiering philosophies and the focus on LTC since the prime question is 'who saves us the most turns' not 'is Oscar better than Kieran as a paladin'. At best such a tier-list would be 'casual' which is looked down upon immensely in the tiering community. Edit: Though it could potentially go a long-way to reducing issues for resource competition. EX: Who cares how good Marcia is with the Chapter 9 BEXP dump? This is a comparison between Soren and Ilyana. Not saying it would resolve the issue in any way, but it might be a step in the 'right' direction. Edited October 23, 2013 by Snowy_One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 geitz is more directly comparable in use and function to harken than to either bartre or dorcas class based tiering would mean nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Due to my recent discovery that there is no tier list for FE13, I decided to bring it up here. I don't feel anywhere near qualified enough to start the topic on my own, especially since I have no idea what sort of standards would be used (and especially since I doubt anyone would take it seriously). So I'm hoping that, maybe, standards can be discussed here? 1) I am going to assume that 'efficiency' is in play. Seems fairly obvious, but how it will be measured when we can have potential monster fights, I'm not sure unless we skip them all together. 2) I would like to suggest that the MU, due to their extreme flexibility, get discounted or given their own, separate, tier. 3) For other units, there should be two standards. Firstly if they never class-changed and only promoted, and secondly if they class-changed to their 'ideal' class. 4) Child characters get their ideal parent(s) regardless of who said parent is or how practical said pairing is. Which parent is ideal can be discussed elsewhere. 5) All side-missions are to be completed as soon as they appear and are to be treated as normal story-mode missions. 6) DLC is to be ignored unless being specifically talked about. 7) Pairing up, due to how whacked out it makes the games balance, is prohibited. Just some suggestions on possible standards if such a list were to take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40676&page=5 http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40004 http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38539 We have three if you wanna use those as a basis, and I'm pretty sure there's one more I'm forgetting. Edited February 23, 2014 by Randa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Odd. When I searched last night I didn't see any of them come up. Must have accidentally typoed or something and not noticed. Anyways, okay. I was operating under the assumption that there was none/none close to a standard. If there is, my comment can be entirely ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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