Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 i feel like this has been asked somewhere, but if we theoretically assume that two units can (mutually exclusive to each other, or perhaps they fill the same role or something like that) shave the same number of turns off of a chapter (such that the turncount is higher if and only if both units were absent), then how is that handled? is it that neither gets the turnshaved credit? both? I'd like to say that, if both fill the same role, then they both get an equal amount of credit. If we had 100 Haars, it seems hard for me to believe that all of them would go into bottom tier simply because they aren't unique. They're all top tiers. It's just that they aren't unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Aight, that makes sense. How are things being assumed with usage of characters? If there was a character A and B whom, if both deployed, can shave off X turns from a chapter (but if only one is deployed then they shave zero), how is that handled? I'm not referring to any double-counting deals, but more are they both always assumed to be in play for the purpose of counting "turns shaved"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Aight, that makes sense. How are things being assumed with usage of characters? If there was a character A and B whom, if both deployed, can shave off X turns from a chapter (but if only one is deployed then they shave zero), how is that handled? I'm not referring to any double-counting deals, but more are they both always assumed to be in play for the purpose of counting "turns shaved"? I suppose I could give each 50% of the credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Ilyana for just below Titania(2 below Haar Her item transfer is super helpful to turn count reduction Go ahead, prove me wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Cool, that clears a lot up in my mind I'll be following this, the concept intrigues me (i'm not knowledgable enough about FE10 to participate in this particular discussion but you know what i mean) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Ilyana for just below Titania(2 below Haar Her item transfer is super helpful to turn count reduction Go ahead, prove me wrong Even if one gives Ilyana credit for giving Haar a Speedwing, it isn't like that contribution saves plenty of turns... I give Ilyana credit for actually participating in a chapter. She does not. Therefore I don't give her credit for cutting turns. Edited May 2, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haar Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Elincia and Kieran both have subpar stats and availability in common. Though I can definitely agree with the former two.Well, Kieran can become stronger and more durable than Titania with the right training (or just let him solo 3-9), but Elincia I think could be up there because mobile staff users are invaluable (and she's far superior to mist), she can ORKO almost anyone thanks to Amiti. The only real problem with her (and Kieran even moreso) is poor availability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Even if one gives Ilyana credit for giving Haar a Speedwing, it isn't like that contribution saves plenty of turns... I give Ilyana credit for actually participating in a chapter. She does not. Therefore I don't give her credit for cutting turns. So her transfer of the blue gem (funds for forges) among other things, don't promote reliability in future chapters? Edited May 2, 2013 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 So her transfer of the blue gem (funds for forges) among other things, don't promote reliability in future chapters? Turns saved: A unit saves turns if and only if the highest possible turncount for a chapter is higher without their presence. Reliability: the chance that a unit will perform an action reliably. These definitions are in the direct sense. It is not true by definition that Ilyana should receive credit for what she does in a chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) These definitions are in the direct sense. It is not true by definition that Ilyana should receive credit for what she does in a chapter.So "her presence" means her being deployed? Because her presence matters if "she isn't dead".If she's been killed in 1-anywhere, GMs lose out on quite a bit. If presence pertains to deployment on this experimental tier list, please clarify. Edited May 2, 2013 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 So "her presence" means her being deployed? Because her presence matters if "she isn't dead". If she's been killed in 1-anywhere, GMs lose out on quite a bit. If presence pertains to deployment on this experimental tier list, please clarify. I don't have to clarify because everyone except you understands that it obviously involves deployment. It cannot be more obvious than saying "a unit will perform an action" or "without their presence in a chapter." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I don't have to clarify because everyone except you understands that it obviously involves deployment. It cannot be more obvious than saying "a unit will perform an action" or "without their presence in a chapter." if it was so obvious, I wouldn't have considered it ok nevermind then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 I updated the tier list with Red Fox's suggestions, and the top tier. Top Tier Titania [T - Spd] Jill [T - Str, Spd, Def] Titania Sothe Jill Ike [T - HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Def, Res] Rafiel Ike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Marcia should be second highest tier. I'm not seeing that, She has poor durability and doesn't actually save that many turns. Edited May 2, 2013 by bearclaw13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Marcia and Tanith will go into high tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Marcia does have a lot of contributions though. You want a good marcia for 3-9 3 turn and shes actually got some pretty nice bases with transfers. Her durability isnt bad at all. Str is a bigger worry for Marcia, but theres forges. She can be a solid contributor in any of the Part 4 routes. Tanith has the edge in combat, but imo, Marcia is better overall. Edited May 2, 2013 by Peekayell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 As you said, though, it's only 3-9 and 4-2 (that's where I put my Marcia). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 And what is Tanith doing? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Tanith is really reliable--at least with transfers. She's a very solid candidate to bring to the final chapter just like Marcia. Marcia will likely be above Tanith though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Marcia and Tanith will go into high tier. I can see maybe see Tanith there but Marcia just isn't making sense to me. 2-3 She doesn't help that much because Geoffrey reaches the seize on turn 4 or 5 (I can't remember) regardless of her contribution. 2-E She contributes nothing. 3-9 She needs the MC to save one (I think) turn. 3-11 Tanith outperforms her unless investment has been put into her (and she hasn't helped before here). Part 4 I guess she's useful but you have a lot of characters doing exactly what she's doing and she's not doing much better than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 She reliably saves 2 turns from 3-9. And after that point she is a better version of Tanith with superior stats (not to mention she's already promoted, so obviously she's better than Tanith). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Marcia can contribute to 2-E by dropping Brom for a reliable 2 turn with the Hammer. It's not the fastest option but it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Probably not on hard mode. And probably not reliably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 not sold on jill > haar first, everything jill can do in part 4, haar can also do so it's really just a matter of a couple of part 3 maps for jill vs. 2-E and a few part 3 maps for haar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 As Jill is most certainly getting the Boots (there's just no one else to make use of it), she has 2 move over Haar. This means that she can reach various corners in 4-3 and E-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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