Super C9++ - Game over, Town Wins!

[scorri]

So D1, Blitz comes in and is focusing pretty much solely on Prims except when asked questions. He then disappears (ok, strikes are a thing, I'm not saying this is scummy or not scummy, I'm just saying it). When he reappears, he's basically dropped everything on Prims, claims he doesn't like the BBM wagon because of the hard push by people and meta, calls Rein scummy for inactivity while completely ignoring the cop fake claim (tell me, why would scum do that?) and doesn't actually even attempt to build a case for it. He makes more of Kay talking about the killer (which he completely misreps) than he does his case. He even says that he thinks that Prims has good points on Rapier but that he's more interested in the person who he thinks is scum because of inactivity. Is inactivity scummy? Is that really all you're basing your cases off? What about other people who have been active? Are they not scummy because they've been active? Is Rein your only scum read?

Now, moving past Blitz, I'm going to jump to SB. I also want to hear why you think these past few posts have been cementing BBM as a town read because I'm not so sure I agree, tbh. Posting a weak defense of someone like that doesn't really look good for you. It honestly almost looks like you're trying to make yourself look better if BBM were to eventually flip town. There was also this:

Not too happy with Strege's content on a whole. Vote sticks on Rein for now but I'd be happy to switch if needs be.

This came at a time when it wasn't quite clear who was getting lynched, but Strege was a high contender and Rein wasn't. He didn't go into why he didn't like Strege beyond the fact that Strege was talking about activity and using it for town/scum tells. I'm not sure if this was a "Oh, I'll do this if needed, look I think he's scummy, I'm totally not his teammate" thing or not, but I'm going to keep that possibility open in my mind.

Ok, finally, BBM. You're way all over the place. This overreaction is honestly like nothing I've ever seen before. I don't really know what to think of you right now. It does seems to me like you're severely misrepping Boron and Manix both in an attempt to defend yourself. Your vote on Boron was seemingly based off a complete misrep. If you really are town, take a couple steps back, figure out what's making you overreact like this, and find a way to not do that.

Finally,

##Unvote

##Vote:Essbee

for now.

[charlie_]

I'm still feeling that BBM's frustration is genuine, because it reminds me of what I felt in Villains anonymafia when everyone thought I was SK when I was the vig. His play feels just like how he normally plays, and I don't think his Strege interactions were a bus either.

This doesn't change my town read on Manix, either (although I'm not particularly fond of that last LYNCH ME outburst, it's mostly a town read). I'm less sure on you, but I guess I'm leaning town there. I'm glad Rein did something finally with his reaction test, but when he says he was happy with the reactions he got, I'd like him to say why he was happy with them, and what they are. Not too happy with all of the spammy shit Prims has been posting, and the labelling Kay as the SK isn't great either, considering that there's been no nightkill. Not sure on Shin.

About my vote last phase, I'm pretty sure that I expressed that I thought Strege was gonna flip scum. Why would I not keep my vote off of him if I was scum, if I wanted to get towncred from his lynch?

[scorri]

Not too happy with Strege's content on a whole. Vote sticks on Rein for now but I'd be happy to switch if needs be.

Rapier's #191 unvote irks me, since Strege is probably scum at this point.

Literally the only mentions of Strege in your posts. If Rapier's unvote irked you, why didn't you vote for Strege? Especially if you were so sure Strege was scum, why weren't you voting him?

[charlie_]

There was no reason for me to switch votes, considering he was going to be lynched anyway.

[BBM]

Okay, I made a typo there. I meant to say "if it's POSSIBLE to scumhunt without moving your vote, why did you unvote?"

And I don't understand what you and Manix are trying to say. Yes, I'm trying to find what's bad in your posts. That's called scumhunting. How is it scummy for me to attack your posts? As for the "context" of your unvote, do you really think a vote that's basically just "get in here" is going to do anything? I think that at least Scorri's SB vote is better in that

And my apologies again, I thought Kay claimed 1-shot Vig. She just claimed Vig. I guess I mixed it together with Rein's 1-shot Cop fakeclaim. My point still stands though. The SK is given a bunch of info about the setup and using it to just claim Vig, which is so easily compared to SK, is sort of lame.

Upon a bit of a reread, SB's content doesn't please me, but I don't think that as scum he'd lurk so blatantly and unashamedly.

[scorri]

Then why were you so upset at Rapier switching his vote? If Strege was getting lynched anyways, why shouldn't Rapier put his vote somewhere else he found scummy? He found BBM to be a safer lynch, so he switched. Strege then claimed Jailkeeper and then Rapier didn't post after SSG cc'd him. Especially seeing as how your post came after SSG had cc'd and his post came from before SSG cc'd, I don't really see a problem with his switch. Especially since at the time of his switch, I don't know if it was sure that Strege would get lynched or was scum for sure. That unvote made it so that Strege had 4 votes and BBM had 3. I'm not sure I see the problem here.

[Tables]

Fixed the last votal. Wasn't counting the top row (which was Rapier, since he currently has the most votes)

[Sunwoo]

Okay, I made a typo there. I meant to say "if it's POSSIBLE to scumhunt without moving your vote, why did you unvote?"

That makes more sense. And in answer to your question, the reason I unvoted was because I wanted to make my vote productive. I think you're scum, but was my vote on you really doing anything there? Was I getting any new information? Yes, it affirms that I think you're scum, but I could use my vote to do more than that ... like voting for someone I want to see more from. Votes scare people. And again, if I still think you are the scummiest by the time we need to consolidate a lynch, I can move my vote back there again. I really don't see why you're making this such a big deal.

And I don't understand what you and Manix are trying to say. Yes, I'm trying to find what's bad in your posts. That's called scumhunting. How is it scummy for me to attack your posts? As for the "context" of your unvote, do you really think a vote that's basically just "get in here" is going to do anything? I think that at least Scorri's SB vote is better in that

You're being hypocritical, is the problem, and NOT READING THE CONTEXT. You were so quick to point out after I unvoted you that you thought it was scummy that I wasn't voting my biggest scum read when I explicitly said, "I think I'm tunneling, I need to look at and pressure other people because this isn't going anywhere." Is the sentiment itself scummy? And then when I tried to explain it to you, you simply seized upon the part where I'm "turning it against you" (by the way, pull up that part in quotes because where am I doing it?) and ranted a paragraph about it before voting me.

As for whether a "get in here" vote is going to accomplish anything, are you implying that I should have done nothing? That I shouldn't have even tried that? Your comparing scorri's SB vote to my pressure vote strikes me as odd because my vote WAS for pressure to get him to talk while scorri thinks he's scum. Of course hers is stronger than mine. How is this relevant?

Also, WHY DO YOU THINK I AM SCUM. Did you answer this?

Upon a bit of a reread, SB's content doesn't please me, but I don't think that as scum he'd lurk so blatantly and unashamedly.

Meta meta meta. You don't know that for sure. It bothers me that you're saying "his content doesn't please me but I don't think as scum he would be such a lurker."

SB defending BBM because "it reminds me of my frustration in an earlier game" doesn't seem like a good reason to believe he's town, although the Strege interactions I can understand. And BBM saying "I don't like SB's content but I don't think he'd be lurky as scum" also pings me as well. BBM, do you think SB is scum?

[Prims]

Still want to lynch Rapier. Will actively refuse to support a BBM lynch until somebody posts a case on him that doesn't handwave his Strege interactions for no reason, because right now that wagon is entirely slapfights.

[Shinori]

Still want to lynch Rapier. Will actively refuse to support a BBM lynch until somebody posts a case on him that doesn't handwave his Strege interactions for no reason, because right now that wagon is entirely slapfights.

Pmuch this.

[Prims]

Prims, can you do something useful other than making scattered 1-line remarks? What are your reads on stuff that's been happening since your last content post?

The BBM arguments are really, really dumb because Manix has yet to explain why BBM was bussing on D1. In fact Manix still seems to be ignoring the scum flip in general which is ugh. Don't care how confident he is on scum!BBM, he's basically ignoring the rest of the game which is not good.

That said I think BBM's reactions today are looking increasingly like frustrated scum compared to frustrated town and I don't agree with or understand the rationale behind his switch to you at all.

I don't know why more people aren't wagoning Rapier; he has the most blatantly scummy interaction with the D1 wagon in the game. For fuck's sake, he hasn't even done anything today. That said, I'd switch to SB. Don't have any real issues with scorri's contentpost but she seems to be ignoring Rapier just because as well?

I'm alright with SB's Blitz case but I think the issues with Blitz's Rein vote are due to Blitz not wording it very well, which is why I was asking him questions. Would like him to get back here and elaborate more + address what SB had to say.

Inversely, Shinori could really stand to talk about people who aren't Rapier, and I wish the more inactive players like Shin would engage in discussion. Non-voters should vote and Kay should exist.

[Shinori]

Also I forgot blitz was in the game but I assume something may have happened irl for him.

[scorri]

Unlike Rapier, he actually posted today.

Prims: I didn't talk about Rapier largely because I forgot about him tbh. I'll go look over both your case for him and also his ISO now.

[scorri]

Hmm, actually, on a quick readthrough, I think I see what you're saying Prims. I'd probably be down for Rapier lynch.

Question @Mod How much time is left in the day?

[Sunwoo]

Okay, I'm actually rereading the thread now and I did read through the BBM/Strege interactions to some degree. From what I can see, BBM voted Strege after Prims pointed out that Strege's vote on SSG looked like a votepark. (Speaking of SSG, where did you go? Just because you counterclaimed Strege to get scum lynched does not give you a free pass to disappear for the rest of the game.)

Strege's reads on BBM were rather waffly. On BBM's part, he asked me in early D1 why single out Strege's post on Shinori's "ambiguity" when others did the same. He also mentioned that he didn't like Shinori's Strege vote. Doesn't really talk about Strege much until Prims votes Strege first with the SSG vote reasoning, and THEN votes him.

I can see why it doesn't look like scum bussing scum to you, Prims, but I'm not sure if I'm 100% convinced. The later parts of their interaction near the end of the phase look convincing. However, and perhaps this is hindsight, I am slightly concerned about the two earlier D1 Strege interactions where he asks me why I singled out Strege and that he doesn't like Shinori's vote. I'll have to read through the thread again and think on it more before I can make up my mind.

His content in D2 is also pinging me heavily. I feel that there is quite a bit of emotion appeal going on (saying to Manix "you were my first town read") and he's not looking at the context of some of the things he is talking about. The amount of overreaction is not helping. (And BBM, I of all people can understand overreacting as either alignment in mafia, as I've done it myself plenty of times. And no one likes it when I do it, me least of all. I feel that your emotions are getting in the way of your scum hunting.)

As for, uh, Rapier ... I do agree that the last minute switch away from Strege, even before Strege claimed jailkeeper looks bad. He also didn't seem to have serious suspicions on anyone other than Shin and BBM. I wish he would post at least ONCE this phase, but I wouldn't be adverse to lynching him. That said, if Rapier does flip scum, I will need to seriously rethink my read on BBM.

[Tables]

Hmm, actually, on a quick readthrough, I think I see what you're saying Prims. I'd probably be down for Rapier lynch.

Question @Mod How much time is left in the day?

A little under 2 days

[Violet_Rain3]

(Speaking of SSG, where did you go? Just because you counterclaimed Strege to get scum lynched does not give you a free pass to disappear for the rest of the game.)

Yeah, sorry about that. I've been keeping up with the thread, reading through and such, but never really have had enough time to post. I fell asleep before the hours of many posting and just came back from a doctors appointement. Give me a bit while as I begin to articulate a post.

[Grace]

i'm awake

Will actively refuse to support a BBM lynch until somebody posts a case on him that doesn't handwave his Strege interactions for no reason

it's like you missed when i posted about those interactions, which didn't handwave them "for no reason". damn straight there's a reason

(also sidenote: I did mention that I would possibly lynch Rapier, but BBM is priority number 1 right now (to all those people who do complain about me tunneling))

[Grace]

also don't have time for rereading/content post, i have no time before i have to leave

[Prims]

By "interactions" I mean "BBM was the second vote on Strege at a time where only one person wanted to lynch him, why'd he bus?"

[Grace]

By "interactions" I mean "BBM was the second vote on Strege at a time where only one person wanted to lynch him, why'd he bus?"

(just going on what you're saying, will reread context later) well just exactly that, at that point there wasn't support for a wagon on him so he could get away with pushing on Strege. presumably it didn't go great because the wagon DID form but it still made him look better on the flip, so it wasn't a waste

also i need to look at the timestamps around claims when i get the chance

[Prims]

Fair enough.

I might sheep the BBM wagon; depends on interest near deadline. We still need votes from SSG / Rapier / Rein.

[Violet_Rain3]

Rapier- The thing that doesn't sit well with me is this.

Jailkeeper? Fine, I'll give you the chance to prove your role this night.

Prove your role this night? How would you be able to know that's his role for sure? This seems scummy to me. The fact that you haven't posted at all this day seems a bit more suspicious.

BBM- Your reactions to Manix look pretty scummy to me.

Kind of disappointed you're so sure I'm scum that you're not looking at other options at all, because a) I don't think there's enough support for a lynch on me today, b) If I do get lynched at some point, you'll be left with nothing (which is why tunneling is bad even if you do it on scum), and c) You were my first townread

This seems like you're grasping for reasons to get Manix off your tail and on your good side.

And c) is there because I'm disappointed that someone I've been townreading the entire game has been scumreading me the entire game.

This has probably happened to you before. And if not, these things could happen. There's no need to get too upset/disapointed about it.

Geez stop overanalyzing everything. >_>

Do you have another way to catch scums during the day aside from analyzing everyone's posts? Telling people to stop analyzing is like telling people to not play. Surely there is a better way to say this than stop overanalyzing, because this is making it seem like you have something to hide and that will be discovered once your posts are thoroughly analyzed.

And so...

##Vote: BBM - for all those odd response/reactions. Your continual flusteredness throughout about 8 days (1 and a half game days) comes off as quite scummy to me.

[Grace]

reading bbm's iso for his claim post and happened upon this

Strege basically claimed scum there.

i can understand the sentiment, but it was 7 minutes after he selfvoted

The tradition holds strong.

for timestamps

now i'd understand if you actually had waited a little and brought up this:

I know we're supposed to be consolidating but I'm obviously not going to vote myself and I don't like the Prims wagon either

(bolded mine)

but you didn't, and jumped to the conclusion without much to back it up (i didn't assume and i asked for reads on the chance he was town selfhammering again)

i almost feel like pushing this as a slip due to the speed of the response there but i'm not going to, but regardless it's still weird as heck

[Grace]

more scattered thoughts

Rein has no reason to fake a cop report after a scum lynch D1, so ##Vote: Kay

Not that pleased with Rein's gambit. All he accomplished with it is pulling out a claim. If Rein actually did it to draw reactions from people, why isn't he looking at those reactions? All he did was say "yeah there were reactions".

backpedal harder btw, you were so willing to sheep it without questioning it, and then you take a 180 about to the entire thing when he retracted

Seeing as I'll be kind of busy today I should probably claim now. I'm a town jailkeeper.

I'm just going to claim because I'll be gone for a while (though I should be back well before phase end). I'm vanilla.

okay so about 2 hours apart, but the thing that's pinging me is the bolded (reads as "hey i'm going to be helpful to the town by putting my claim out there even though i might be back later")