Why is LTC hated?

[Da Bear]

Why does it matter if Donnel is unusable? He is an unusable piece of trash and anyone should be glad not to use him.

This is terrible. You completely ignored the point of my post just so you could hate on Donnel. Donnel has several purposes, none of which are realistically used in LTC.

Allow me to reiterate my point since you didn't seem to understand, If a unit is unusable in HM of Awakening than you're doing it wrong.

[Hawk King]

Chiki my boy, they dont hate LTC, they hate you.

Come on over to the drafting community. We will accept you there.

[Da Bear]

Chiki my boy, they dont hate LTC, they hate you.

Constable Reggie is the only one like that... I don't hate Olwen at all.

[ZemZem]

All of Constable Reggie's posts about LTC are sarcastic.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I'm not a fan of it because 2 or 3 posters (I won't specify) talk about it like it's the best way to play. I wouldn't even mind that but these posters will occasionally seem to assume that because it fits their views, LTC is the best way to play for everyone.

I bet its DemiseEnd and Im_Marcus

[RJWalker]

All of Constable Reggie's posts about LTC are sarcastic.

He hasn't posted in th8is thread.

[ZemZem]

He hasn't posted in this thread.

Constable Reggie is the only one like that... I don't hate Olwen at all.

That's why I mentioned Reggie in my post.

[SRC]

My feeling is that LTC runs are actually pretty cool, worth discussing even, but are kind of a drag for character discussions. Only so many characters can really do anything in an optimal LTC run, making them extremely hit or miss. Interesting characters easily become chumps if they can't find a niche in such a playthrough.

Meanwhile, something like drafts is a lot more flexible. You get to appreciate champs like Sumia for what they are, but you're also trying to make low picks like Virion actually do something productive.

[Shin]

There's nothing wrong with LTC. My main problem is with those consider it the only way, criticising and even mocking those who play differently. However, the people who hate LTC because they think it's stupid and a way for egomaniacs to brag about themselves are pretty much as bad. Pure LTC and "alternate" tier lists are just as bad. LTC lists define who is the most useful in saving turns, not who is overall the "best" unit. Likewise, alternate lists giving credit to units for their wonderful supports and the fact they have good 20/20 stats are silly too.

Horace for bottom tier.

[Chiki]

I think it's clear that people here just don't understand what LTC is. And I think that's the reason it isn't liked.

LTC lists define who is the most useful in saving turns, not who is overall the "best" unit.

LTC tier lists don't even deal with only saving turns.

Usain Bolt is the fastest runner in the world, and so he is considered the best. But why can't we apply the same logic to Fire Emblem?

[Shin]

Usain Bolt is the fastest runner in the world, and so he is considered the best. But why can't we apply the same logic to Fire Emblem?

Because in a race, the goal is to get to the end fastest, silly. There are a tonne of ways to complete FE games, LTC, casual, efficiency, TAS, no one is the "right" way. People arguing too strongly for or against a certain playstyle don't seem to grasp that for some reason.

[mai]

It's generally harder (assuming you're consistent about achieving lowest turns and not just minimalistically moving Seth from one part of the map to another with a Javelin) and keeps you busy thinking, planning and rehearsing strategies, in comparison to taking your time.

Yeah, basically this. I don't often play LTC, but IMO it's much more fun to think of ways to 1-turn a chapter (whenever possible) than just go ahead and throw your units at the enemy and overpower them.

Some chapters are so easy they're just mindnumbingly boring, but they get a lot more challenging and exciting when you're trying to figure out how to beat it in the least possible amount of turns.

[Scarlet]

It's not LTC that is hated, or any other playstyle for that matter.

It's the people behind it that are.

Nobody likes arrogant, elitist people who quickly become outright insulting and twist anything they read into what they want to read. That these certain few individuals happen to be LTCers around here is really just coincidence.

[Chiki]

No LTC player has told anyone here that they are inferior, unintelligent or anything like that. I think the people here just take video games too seriously.

[dondon151]

No LTC player has told anyone here that they are inferior, unintelligent or anything like that. I think the people here just take video games too seriously.

the irony is palpable

[The Fush]

When certain game modes to play that seem new and challenging pop up in a community of said game, it is very likely that 90% of all the hipsters within the realm will start hurling insults and stones at this game mode exactly 3 months after it was first discovered because they think it's a completely appropriate way to act and be cool about it and they get a retarded feel of satisfaction and supposed superiority that seems to imply that they're the new Lv20 Great Lords here while the rest of us are all villagers

All it really does is show that they're a bunch of nicompoopian trogdolytes

[RJWalker]

We can't compare Usain Bolt and Fire Emblem because Fire Emblem isn't a race. It's a video game. It's one and only purpose is to be fun. Now if you find LTC fun, so be it, I have no problems with that. But if anyone claims that it is the only way to play, well we've got a problem.

As someone who plays Pokemon competitively, I've seen both: Players who say that those who play competitively are taking the fun out of it and people who claims that competitive battling is the only way to play and main game is a waste of time.

Let me tell you a fact: Both sides are idiots.

[Constable Reggie]

All of Constable Reggie's posts about LTC are sarcastic.

I bet you don't even galeforce, bro.

No LTC player has told anyone here that they are inferior, unintelligent or anything like that. I think the people here just take video games too seriously.

dude stop

my sides

ltc is fine, its generally the people behind it that is irritating. Go make your ltc tier list or ltc-worshipping threads or whatever, thats great, but don't forcefully impose it on the majority of people who don't care for ltc. Most importantly, don't insult the mentality of non-ltc players just because you think it's the "best" way to play the game.

[Sunwoo]

I don't think LTC is hated. Or, at least, it shouldn't be. It's not how I play the game most of the time, but so what? It's a perfectly valid play style.

What I DO take issue with is when people who are elitist about LTC look down upon players who don't play for LTC and act as if people who don't play for LTC are "doing it wrong" and try to impose their play style on anyone. (I'd also take issues with non-LTCers who acted elitist and as if people who played for LTC were "doing it wrong".) And stuff like this DOES happen and I have seen it.

[Snowy_One]

Too make it worst, LTC players are the ones who debate in tier-lists the most. I've come to accept that measuring turn-counts is one of the best ways to measure how good a unit it, but when LTC becomes the focus of a tier-list it becomes exclusive. It assumes that the player will play for a very specific goal and utilize units in such a way as to achieve that goal, which not every player does. IMO, a tier-list is for measuring how good units are. It's impossible to represent every style, but we also shouldn't be pointing to one style and method of gameplay and saying 'this is how to play and how to rank them'. Especially if it has some huge caveats (assuming the player will be smiting/rescue-dropping, rushing to the end, always deploying Reyson for his refresh and taking advantage of the canto's. Not saying that these things shouldn't be counted, but to make them assumed/required is a whole different story. Like the difference between 'should be quite because you haven't read the arguments' and 'must be quiet because you haven't read the arguments').

[Chiki]

Okay Snowy, how would you tier units?

[Snowy_One]

I'd try to keep things generalized and applicable to as many different playstyles as possible. I'd make the following assumptions.

1) The player is not an idiot, but doesn't know or care about turncounts. He wants to complete the chapter, not get a lower number.

2) He desires reliable units and units who can be utilized without needing specific set-ups over ones who are only good under certain conditions.

3) He wants to form a solid team as early as possible/for as many chapters as possible, but is not unwilling to use later units/units with lesser deployment.

4) No unit besides forced units are guarenteed a slot, but the player will tend towards units who have supports if giving a choice.

As for measuring quality, turn-count is indeed one way, but it should not be the only. Instead I'd try to focus on the team trying to keep the way clear for the lord without rescue/shove/refreshing him as that is applicable to more playstyles than LTC (since everyone will try to clear the chapter, but not everyone will use mounted units, rescue/smite chains, or always refresh the lord if possible).

[Chiki]

If people just want to complete a chapter, how does that measure how good a unit is? I can solo any given chapter in FE13 with Archer/Sniper Virion, but we know he's total crap.

[Junkhead]

I think it's because of the elitist and kind of arrogant image LTC and LTC players have.

I agree, actually. And I apologize on their behalf. We don't tend to come off the nicest way possible...or at least as far as I've seen at SF.

According to a scientific study conducted by Prof. B.F. Skinner, LTC players live longer lives on average, have higher IQs, and mostly have PhDs

That's actual study?

I don't exactly HATE LTC, but I do find it to be an incredibly boring and dumb way to play the game. What's the point of rushing through chapters like a madman, besides bragging rights?

I don't exactly HATE casual play, but I do find it to be an incredibly boring and dumb way to play the game. What's the point of spending tons of hours leveling weak/er units like a madman, besides bragging rights?

Sorry if that sounded mockingly, but the point I'm trying to get across is that some people that do that (hours of griding) proceed to call the game "really easy" because they've solo'd it with their all-capped Donnels or Morgans.

[47948201]

(At the end of the game, one of the main things that gets recorded is turn count. Going for a low turn count in FE is like going for a high score in any other game, and who here actually hates people who try to get points?)