Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[scorri]

Maybe could've been a cursed word or something that was put into effect at night but the result happened during the day? I dunno, role spec, etc.

[BBM]

;/ DO WE HAVE SOME SORT OF DAY KILLER LIKE FFM? I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY A TOWN-ALIGNED KILLER WOULD TARGET NNR AFTER HIS CLAIM. I GUESS IT'S POSSIBLE THAT NECKTIE WAS KILLED BY HIM TOO, IN THAT CASE, IDK. ALSO YEAH, HOW DID THAT GO THROUGH AFTER SHINORI'S HOOK CARD? I CAN ONLY GUESS THAT THE KILLER IS STRONG-WILLED OR SOMETHING. MAYBE THEY WERE TRYING TO SETUP SHINORI?

[scorri]

Hi Elie! Sure, I can do that.

-Weird vote switch off of Proto for little to no reasons

-Jumped to Manix for what was pointed out by Manix to be a misrep and were weak reasons even without it being a misrep

-General lack of reads

-Partially gut feeling

[Elieson]

The majority of what I have as far as notes go point to Manix's claim being done strangely, but I'll hafta read and catch up for myself to see if that's true or if Kay was just being a Derp.

Though, thanks for the gut scumread on me :3

##Unvote

Because I have no reason to view Manix as scummy due to me only really reading D1.

[Elieson]

Oh! To save time? Is there a sort of organized claims list that someone who types in NON-UBER BOLD RED FONT could throw down for me, plz?

[scorri]

Uh... from what I can remember:

Objection: redirector

Manix: ascetic who also gets what the visitors would have done

Shinori: Potions dude (can give potions and send a message with them)

Marth: his card can swap cards and also is a 1-shot mass janitor or something like that. no role claim I don't think.

uhh... that's all I can remember.

[Prims]

Fera, Rein and Zeem have been prodded.

[BBM]

STREGE, I THINK YOUR CRITICISM OF XINNY'S 474 IS GOOD, BUT I DON'T REALLY GET THE POINT ABOUT 687. IT MAKES SENSE TO ME THAT IF SHE WAS BACKING OFF SB DUE TO HIS CLAIM, SHE WOULD TALK ABOUT HIM LESS THAN SHE WOULD IF SHE WAS STILL SCUMREADING HIM.

ELIE I'M HURT WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY ALL CAPS BOLDED MAX SIZE RED FONT POSTS??? JUST FOR THAT I'M GOING TO POST A CLAIMS LIST; AT LEAST YOU'LL NEVER MISS IT.

PAPERBLADE- DIDN'T REALLY CLAIM BUT SAID HE WAS IN SOME SORT OF NEIGHBOUR GROUP WITH PROTO, FERA, AND POSSIBLY OTHERS.

SB- DIDN'T CLAIM FULLY BUT SAID HIS ROLE IMPLIED MULTIPLE REDIRECTS

MARTH- TOWN NINJA; HE DOESN'T HAVE A ROLE PAST THAT, BUT IT APPLIES TO HIS SPELLCARDS, WHICH ARE A CARD TRADER AND A MASS-JANITOR

XINNY- TOWN NINJA; DIDN'T CLARIFY PAST THAT

OBJECTION- ALTERNATE NIGHT REDIRECTOR

MANIX- ASCETIC; GETS THE ROLES OF WHOMEVER VISITS HIM

SHINORI- GIVES POTIONS AT DAY/NIGHT TO PEOPLE ALONG WITH SMALL MESSAGES

I THINK THAT'S IT.

[BBM]

FUCK IDK WHY THE FONT AND SIZE WORE OFF PART WAY THROUGH, DON'T MODKILL ME FOR THAT.

[Prims]

BBM has been modkilled.

BBM has been modrevived.

this is not a modscene

[BBM]

WELL SOMETHING WE LEARNT FROM MY DERP- BLITZ MIGHT HAVE BEEN RIGHT ABOUT THE FAKE MODSCENE THING. WHEN PRIMS MODKILLED/MODREVIVED ME JUST NOW AS A JOKE, HE SPECIFICALLY DECLARED IT NOT A MODSCENE, WHEREAS MANIX'S "JOKE" MODKILL/MODREVIVE WAS DECLARED A MODSCENE.

[scorri]

Also, Elie, I'm voting you because you have yet to do postgame for me and BBM. Clearly this is a serious reason to lynch you here. *serious face*

[Prims]

Need another sub. First person to PM me/Kaoz/Conq gets it, though I'll be out in a bit.

[Xinnidy]

ran ran ruu

Did shinori just mass day hook wha-

and then death wha-

Something quite grand happened while I collapsed, didn't it?

Lots of important interactions, they at least help busy me to read people faster.

[spoiler=I need to stop watching children's card games and post]

Now that it's not actually hammer, I'm going provide some reasons why I voted Blitz:

- I find it hard to believe that your 2 identical mistakes is a coincidence

Something that slipped my mind outright: what were his 2 identical mistakes again?

However, I have a major issue with you coming from day 1 still: you're still going with the flow for reasons I find conspicuous.

No matter how I look at this post, your wording on your first sentence gives a terrible implication. Why wait for it not actually being a hammer to bother with giving reasons? That in itself seems like a very weak way to make up for something sudden that almost took town by surprise. Even with your explanation here, I don't think there's any purpose in voting a player without any well explained reasoning especially when people aren't agreed upon having day end earlier.

@Boron it wasn't a random panic action, since I figured, I'd be claiming sooner or later. Why not save the trouble and claim right away?

Why claim right away and let this information out in the open? You risk being locked-down by anti-town now that they know your role, so they have a better idea of what to do and how to handle you. What if your role was more important? To me it just seems more of a way to handwave a claim that town people don't have a good idea how it can contribute now that it's proven to not help you gain credibility.

There's a lot you could get away by playing the newbie card, so it's quite frustrating to judge you, but I think there's enough you could be answering right away.

##Vote: Objection!!

I agree with everyone that pointed out that Blues's role is very scummy, but that has nothing to do with his alignment. To quote from Prims,

Furthermore, if Blues was actually scum, I very much doubt he would openly claim to have a Mass-Janitor card. He would have just faked some other spell card. In fact, considering that a Card Swapper could be detrimental to the Town in certain circumstances, with the Ninja effect making it even worse (Tracker is confirmed to be Town, not Mafia), I would have expected him to prepare a fakeclaim as scum. I actually found his D1 Ninja claim to be very Townish because Mafia non-Ninjas would be in deep trouble if they're ever seen, and Mafia Ninjas wouldn't be able to benefit from the Ninja effect of concealing murders if they just announced it to the world.

I disagree with this.

Openly claiming you're a ninja, sans from attention, doesn't affect you much --people can't see what you're doing or what your true role is without a cop anyways. And secondly, there is still the factor that claiming such an absurd spellcard can serve as this exact kind of WIFOM. Marth did claim card swapper and had his role proven enough by virtue of Objection, though, which I find a more significant reason to step down. I was more worried that, at best, marth just handed his spellcard in a silver platter to a speculated role that could mess with cards (as Baldrick's rolequote implied), though I'm starting to bring his role into the balance, and that just sounds overwhelming now. Still, it's back to not considering roles when reading, like I should be.

Naturally, since I also have the ninja modifier, what I've said about Marth comes right back at me. I'm personally more frustrated after these voyeur plans too, but I digress.

I would also like opinions from Xin'dy -- particularly, quantified reads on Objection and Bluedoom, and Shinori if she wants.

Bluedoom and Objection are literally the two people I've talked the most and held the most suspicion about overall. I refuse to provide something I've been providing consistently enough.

I suggest you read my ISO again (or this post, even!).

In her recent posts she's spent some time been poking holes in Bluedoom's logic, which she does by defending herself and reiterating her opinions. This is mostly an issue because of its quantity versus the quantity of other content.

By in my recent posts, you mean all of one (this) post.

I do that because he's essentially been kept himself on this point alone against me for the longest time, and has never bothered elaborating.

In my opinion, the quantity of my other content is fine and much larger than that defense in general, just not in that post. If you think I spent more content defending myself than I do reading people, you're wrong. If you're speaking solely for D3, you're right, however, and I see no problem with it, I take my time, I have no life, and it's just instinctively easier to generate content when I'm being addressed.

In post 474 she says SB didn't elaborate on his Proto read but apparently I was the only person who read the second half of post 276 in which he did. The criticism is then either a weak semantic one about "Baldrick has basically no reads" or a misrep, and it wasn't a clear position on the SB wagon in the first place.

There was an SB wagon? When?

I confirm that I haven't read post 276 ever before.

I didn't find SB's proto vote conclusive as a misrep, true, and I found him suspect aside from his role, I opted to wait for content while pushing scummier people.

If you're talking about my criticism on Baldrick there, you're also misrepping me awfully.

I don't like that she then talks about backing off in her read of SB due to his claim in post 687 since the only other time she mentions him is later in that post about his understanding of the rules -- which seems like rolefishing, actually (where she says "Is it information you gained?"). I'll reread her ISO again when I get back in like 8 hours but she looks pretty scummy to me and I don't see a reread changing that a lot.

Correction: The last time I mention SB is here, though I don't outright mention his name, I do mention I find his crumb to be very pro-town.

Sure, you can use the role =/= allignment against that stance, sure. But I would consider it a dumb way to keep uncertainty in the air.

It is never explicit that all players have a spellcard, I wouldn't call it crazy to assume that, if he said with such certainty, he's got the info from somewhere akin to BBM's early D1 info. I wanted to confirm that.

...That took forever more than it needed to.

[Zkirsche]

I'm the insomniac.

Paper is a redirector as he claimed to be the one to redirect SB.

Rapier is supposedly some guy that dies N1 and gets brought back to life when he chooses. The last part of that has yet to happen.

Also not that the card swapping thing Marth has is not one use like most spell card actions are.

And Scorri I mentioned in my reply to Proto why I voted Marth and I have already said those things before so I assumed people would understand why I voted him.

[Sunwoo]

What just happened.

Also, I'm sort of here. I'm not feeling very well, though, so I probably won't be saying much today.

Boron, can you explain what's so odd about that reasoning? Town has absolutely nothing to gain by rushing through and having an early lynch. It prevents us from discussing further until the next day. There's no reason for me to fear committing to a lynch unless I thought Blitzy was a bomb or something like that broken role in PMDMafia where everyone who gets voted becomes unprotectable or something like that.

My problem with you was mostly this post here. It kind of sounded to me as if you were trying to distance yourself from the lynch. It sounded as if whether you personally wanted the lynch was dependent on how Blitz answered, but you doubted he would give a satisfactory answer, and it felt like to me that you were trying to avoid giving a definitive opinion.

My vote and anything else I'd want to address will need to wait until I'm not feeling terrible, sorry.

[scorri]

Kirsche: That's not what I asked... I asked why you think I'm scummy.

[Prims]

Okay I need like 2 subs at once. Ugh.

[Paperblade]

I think that Marth is town simply because I don't think that scum would hold onto a Janitor use just so they can go "NO THIS IS MY ROLE I AM TOWN PLEASE DON'T LYNCH ME" and it's similar to roles we have previously seen as town (Psych in anonymafia and Mancer in Void).

Also I thought it was established that the modscene thing is scum because no one stepped up to claim they tried to kill Blitz.

[Shinori]

And no my card didn't stop anything factional or strong-willed. I found this out. Which means it could be like some sort of factional kill for a sk or something that can only do it in the day.

[Kriemhild]

My problem with you was mostly this post here. It kind of sounded to me as if you were trying to distance yourself from the lynch. It sounded as if whether you personally wanted the lynch was dependent on how Blitz answered, but you doubted he would give a satisfactory answer, and it felt like to me that you were trying to avoid giving a definitive opinion.

Like I said, I couldn't imagine Town!Blitzy doing something so stupid, nor could I imagine Scum!Blitzy doing anything like that either. But I also know that whenever Blitzy does stupid stuff, he justifies it with his own reasoning. That's why I was so insistent on him answering "What would you do if everything worked out exactly as you planned?" If he was able to provide a scenario in which there would be some benefit to "acting scummy intentionally to claim", then I could accept that Blitzy would be crazy enough to try pulling that off. But if he couldn't present any possible situation in which his plan might have helped him, then it implies that "acting scummy intentionally to claim" wasn't Blitzy's original plan in the first place and that he made that up when he was being attacked, which would convince me that he's scum.

Shinori, does your card block off character actions AND spellcards?

I'm not sure what to think of the Day Vig. Paper, the Day Vig probably didn't step forward after Blitzy died because they still had shots remaining and didn't want to be exposed until it was necessary. But killing NekoRex is clearly scummy, because he just claimed to have a really good ability and didn't get to use it yet.

[Shinori]

It only blocks role abilities. Any factional or strong will abilities still go off. Or alternatively if someone had a way around a roleblock.

[Shinori]

##Give Paperblade Green

[Grace]

the

fuck

happened

goddamn i missed a lot while i was asleep

[Shinori]

Also if someone hasn't I'm requesting that cop scan one of proto, fera, and paper.

And that's part of my paranoid thoughts.