SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[BANRYU]

Today's pic of the day is of the recently announced Newcomer: Greninja.

On Sakurai's miiverse page, he confirmed that Greninja's side special will be the move Shadow Sneak. It can be charged to move a greater distance and can be charged while Greninja moves. No clue if it has damaging properties or if is only a slip move.

Oh sick, I was wondering what that move could have been.

Yeah, it seems like it DOES do damage, it can be seen in the trailer when Greninja is attacking WFT on the Wii Fit stage. In light of that, it looks like this move is very similar to Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape, although it's possible that it may be a horizontal/groundbound-only move much like Ike's Quickdraw given it seems to have similar charging properties. Too soon to say for sure, but it looks interesting.

Well, at least now we know all of Greninja's Specials. That's pretty cool.

I live in Vegas.

Ever hear of the horse races and sports book?

I've seen lives ruined by following someone's "predictions" just because they get the first few wins.

Not to devalue the seriousness of actual gambling and the problems that come with it, but... From where I'm standing, what we're discussing in this thread is something completely different. :0 Aside from the fact that no one's betting quantifiable currency, I'd venture to say that SSB roster predictions are more based on intellectualism and reasoning than pure chance.

Also yeah, the Snake stuff is exactly what I was talking about lol.

But anyway yeah like I said, they can always just fix that stuff in the next game if he IS coming back. A lot of Snake mains that were used to his exploitative hitboxes are going to have to adapt to that anyway if he returns behehe.

Edited April 14, 2014 by BANRYU

[Jedi]

Sonic also had issues with his attacks. But they were negative, odd lag/hit boxes that weren't beneficial at all but I'd say that's more on the fact in Brawl he was made completely in a mere 6 weeks

[Guy Starwind]

Snake was my main in Brawl. I'm sure he won't return but one can hope.

[kingddd]

if he was removed, it would be neat if an Advance/Battalion Wars character to replaced him for the moveset.

[Anacybele]

lol, kingddd, it looks like Ike and Marth are box surfing in your sig. XD

[PKL]

It's believed by people that have fiddled with Brawl to make mods etc., that at one point, Snake was bigger, whether he had a bigger/taller model or he was in giant brawl eludes me. But they forgot to change is hitboxes back to normal in ftilt and utilt.

[BANRYU]

An (un)fortunate mistake (depending on whether or not you're a Snake main that likes to abuse that lol) on their part. I wish we could hope for no such mistakes in Smash 3U, but stuff like that always ends up leaking through one way or another-- no one's perfect, after all.

Still, I wonder if like they'll release patches for that stuff to gradually fix the metagame.

It doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd do (since that's more of a hardcore competitive thing and Sakurai is very adamant about Brawl being for fun for the most part), but it'd be nice at least.

[PKL]

An (un)fortunate mistake (depending on whether or not you're a Snake main that likes to abuse that lol) on their part. I wish we could hope for no such mistakes in Smash 3U, but stuff like that always ends up leaking through one way or another-- no one's perfect, after all.

Still, I wonder if like they'll release patches for that stuff to gradually fix the metagame.

It doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd do (since that's more of a hardcore competitive thing and Sakurai is very adamant about Brawl being for fun for the most part), but it'd be nice at least.

Well, he's a lot more open these days about competition it seems. Lots of stuff he's done lead me to believe this as well as his words on it in that one article. If something is broken once again, i have no doubt he would take action.

On other stuff, I have this feeling that the guys that think mewtwo isnt in due to greninja are in for a surprise. ;) He isnt an assist nor a pokeball pokemon as of now.

[Djing]

I guess that means no "RULES OF NATURE!" in Smash 4. Shame.

[BANRYU]

Well, he's a lot more open these days about competition it seems. Lots of stuff he's done lead me to believe this as well as his words on it in that one article. If something is broken once again, i have no doubt he would take action.

On other stuff, I have this feeling that the guys that think mewtwo isnt in due to greninja are in for a surprise. ;) He isnt an assist nor a pokeball pokemon as of now.

Yeah, I think it's great that Sakurai is doing his best to cater to the more competitive Smash players, though I'd wager he's still on the 'For Fun' side of the spectrum if sides had to be taken lol. (There's nothing wrong with that of course.)

That's true, but it doesn't necessarily mean Mewtwo will make a return, either. I don't think there will be too many more newcomers past what's been announced... In both of the previous two titles, the rosters increased by 13-14, so logic WOULD dictate the same for this one; however I have my doubts that we'll be getting that many, seeing as the roster is already so large assuming most characters come back (even if you rule out guys like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and possible non-returners like Ike and Snake), that doesn't leave room for a lot of characters to be added and still be very well-balanced and stuff. It seems like Sakurai is focusing more on fine-tuning the old characters this time around than he is adding a bunch of new ones-- and, assuming I'm right in guessing this, I'm perfectly fine with that. I'd guess that we get somewhere in the vicinity of 10+ newcomers total.

EDIT @ Craig: 'Rules of Nature'? :0

Edited April 14, 2014 by BANRYU

[IceBrand]

Going from the videos, are characters stun longer in the air?

[Nanami Touko]

EDIT @ Craig: 'Rules of Nature'? :0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTQIogLBFBs

:V

[IceBrand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTQIogLBFBs

:V

Thank you.

[Ema Skye]

I figured this would be a good thing to post here for anyone interested in the game's physics compared to Melee and Brawl.

To the left is Brawl. Smash Bros. Wii U is in the middle, then Melee on the right. As you can see, Smash Bros. Wii U is floatier than Melee but not as floaty as Brawl.

Game physics play a huge role in determining the viability of some characters (it can be credited for most of the nerfs of Ganondorf, C. Falcon and Jigglypuff).

In case you can't see them totally in sync, here's frame data:

Total frames (brackets indicate amount of frames right before landing animation):
Brawl = 53 (50)
Smash 4 = 45 (43)
Melee = 39 (37)

Frame that second jump starts:
Brawl = 16
Smash 4 = 16
Melee = 13

Another thing to note. They all start falling at the 23rd/24th frame (Melee seems more like 22nd/23rd frame).

All 0.03 seconds per frame (30ms/frame)

Edited April 15, 2014 by Harmonie

[PKL]

Awesome, he seems to be staying true to his promise of inbetween melee and brawl so far. Where did u get the frame data though, Lucina?

[FrostyFireMage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTQIogLBFBs

:V

Sounds like Shadow the Hedgehog's new theme music.

[Anacybele]

Of course Sakurai keeps his promises! He's a great guy like that. I never expected any less of him. :)

I know I was still disappointed in that direct, but nobody's perfect, not even him. He's not always gonna do something I like. I just gotta roll with it. Who knows, I may even like playing Greninja if I have to use him in an event match or some such. And I definitely would like to take a crack at Mega Zard X. :3

[Ema Skye]

Awesome, he seems to be staying true to his promise of inbetween melee and brawl so far. Where did u get the frame data though, Lucina?

Someone posted it on NeoGAF which came to SmashBoards for me to C/P.

[BANRYU]

Thanks for the info, Harmonie. Dunno about the rest of you, but I'm pretty pleased at the prospect of riding the fence between Melee and Brawl's mechanics.

New SSotD is up, by the way. It's the Final Destination version of Gerudo Valley-- not much more to say than that.

[Jedi]

While I admire the balance between Brawl and Melee physics thing I'm still gonna be skeptical of its balance compared to Melees and Project M's sense of balance till the game comes out

Edited April 15, 2014 by Jedisupersorry

[BANRYU]

Naturally it's not going to be perfect, that's a given with any corporately-produced game like this due to time/budget constraints (Awakening says hello).

I don't think that's really a valid criticism though, JSS. The fans will always spend more time than the companies can literally afford to in order to tweak the balance of these games; you should compare the game to Melee and Brawl, not Project M or other hacks.

So... yeah, comparing it to Melee is fine.

Personally, my issue with Melee is that only a very small fraction of the cast is considered playable in a competitive environment, despite its obviously-superior physics. At least Brawl made more characters more fun to play.

[Ema Skye]

The more characters in a game, the harder it is to balance. But I think Sakurai's trying. He's buffed Link, Zelda, Samus and Bowser, four of Brawl's bottom tiers, already..

[Refa]

Didn't he buff Zero Suit Samus? The one who wasn't in bottom tier?

[PKL]

What Reef said and add Diddy Kong and Lucario...

[BANRYU]

I think the approach Sakurai's trying to take is the one that the creators of the Brawl Minus project did-- buffing EVERYONE and making them all strong as a means of balancing them out. If everyone is broken, then technically, no one is. That's the theory, anyway, and I like it; more powerful characters are more fun and gratifying to play as (goes back to the issue I had with Melee-- many characters, like Kirby, my fave Mewtwo, and a lot of other low-tier characters don't feel remotely gratifying).

Actually though, I haven't heard anything about normal Samus being buffed for this game. :0 All we've heard Sakurai talk about is her new look; her moves look largely the same. I certainly HOPE she gets considerably buffed; IMO it's pretty criminal how better ZSS is than Samus.