SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Alertcircuit]

Captain Toad would be badass. Since he can't jump he could borrow a pair of ZSS's Rocket Boots!

I wasn't aware Daisy had lots of fans. That's cool though, maybe they should do something with her like the koopalings. I always just thought people tossed her in the "extra" mario characters pile with Waluigi.

[kingddd]

To be fair, after reading the first few pages, about 90% of the comments are positive, and negative comments aren't even always about Rosalina. Every character gets some complaints.

Eh. I've never played a game with Lightning, but these don't sound like the same thing. Being in the party games (Smash aside) doesn't mean a lot when characters like Daisy, Waluigi, and Toadette make it to all of those as well, and the only mainline games she's in are the ones that are at least partially based on her (Galaxy) and 3D World.

well the best term is basically the creator's favoritism over what the fans like essentially. Rosalina being Nintendo's lightning is basically being labeled because of her numerous appearances in Mario games over a character that has been in the series longer but is unplayable.

[Jave]

To be fair, after reading the first few pages, about 90% of the comments are positive, and negative comments aren't even always about Rosalina. Every character gets some complaints.

I am aware of that, which is what I was trying to point out to Ana. Sometimes I feel that people use the "Well nobody complained about this and that" far too lightly in order to justify other people complaining about things they like.

Ana's original mention of Rosalina getting no complaints was in comparison to the Koopalings getting too much attention, but if you look around, there probably isn't any more people complaining about the Koopalings than there are people complaining about Rosalina. As you said, every character gets SOME complaints.

[Nova]

Also @Daisy conversation; Daisy, like Waluigi, should not make it into Smash Bros. until she starts being used in more than just party games. One old mainline appearance is not enough to be worth a spot on Smash's roster.

...King Wart for Smash.

[Raven]

One old mainline appearance is not enough to be worth a spot on Smash's roster.

You could say the same thing about DH Dog (which is why I was initially skeptical of his inclusion), but then again he (they?) have been involved of 100% of the game series they've been in, unlike Rosalina.

[IceBrand]

I wonder, do you guys think Sakurai plays 3DS Smash online when he's bored? Probably kicking everyone's asses.

[Alertcircuit]

I wonder, do you guys think Sakurai plays 3DS Smash online when he's bored? Probably kicking everyone's asses.

He's been playing it for like two years as a job, so I'm not sure, but that would be a fun job.

[Mighty Kamina]

He's been playing it for like two years as a job, so I'm not sure, but that would be a fun job.

Maybe he plays it sometimes during his spare time, but it seems each Smash Bros game's development takes a very heavy toll on Sakurai. I wouldn't be surprised that when everything is done he doesn't want anything to do with Smash Bros for a long time. (I wouldn't be surprised if there would be another Smash Bros game with him leading it again in like 5-8 years though)

Edited September 16, 2014 by Shulk

[Anacybele]

To me, she's in the same boat as Waluigi, being an unnecessary copy of an already existing character, so that Luigi has his own set of princess/nemesis.

Except Daisy was created as the princess of a kingdom entirely separate from Peach's and was meant to be her own character and another love interest for Mario, not Luigi. Waluigi was literally made only so Wario would have a partner in spinoff games like Mario Kart: Double Dash, with the gag of "Luigi's rival" being slapped on him. Waluigi was literally just filler, much like Baby Daisy and Baby Rosalina. Daisy was not. Plus she has been around for a LOT longer. Hell, Waluigi has yet to even appear in a Wario game.

Daisy was never suggested to be Luigi's love interest in ANY Mario media until Mario Kart Wii where Daisy Circuit featured statues of the two dancing together (as well as their baby selves playing together). In canon, Luigi and Daisy have never even interacted.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Anacybele

[Carter]

Except Daisy was created as the princess of a kingdom entirely separate from Peach's and was meant to be her own character. Waluigi was literally made only so Wario would have a partner in spinoff games like Mario Kart: Double Dash, with the gag of "Luigi's rival" being slapped on him. Waluigi was literally just filler, much like Baby Daisy and Baby Rosalina. Daisy was not. Plus she has been around for a LOT longer.

While I agree with you that she has started out that way (and I honestly liked her that way) in more modern Mario times, she's turned into something like Waluigi or Toadette.

YES, I have read your post when you said she started out different, and deserves better. And I agree with you on that part. But face structure, dress, she's very similar to Peach in terms of looks, she might as well just be an alternate costume. Daisy deserves better, but there are many things that liken her to Peach. After a long while, Daisy became just Peach's partner, in Mario Kart, Mario Sports games, etc.

When was the last time she had a starring role, anyways? (I seriously don't know, that was not meant to be sass).

Daisy is different from Peach, I'll give you that. But over the years... wouldn't you agree she's been (in a way) ..."demoted" from what she began as? And now that we have a different princess, who differs more from Peach than Daisy did, she's popping up everywhere. Nintendo doesn't have much starring female roles, do they?

[Anacybele]

Actually, I'd say that Daisy has gone the opposite route and become more different from Peach in a similar way to Luigi having been differentiated from Mario, but to a much lesser extent. Her original design had her looking exactly like Peach aside from the color scheme. She now has a somewhat different dress and a completely different face and hair. She just needs to appear in mainstream games again. She doesn't even need to be playable, she can be a major supporting character or something like I have her in my writing.

Also, fun fact: Rosalina was originally intended to be a relative of Peach. I also think she resembles Peach more than Daisy ever did aside from the dress.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Anacybele

[Elieson]

They should've put a Daisy alt for peach that looks like her Super Mario Bros live-action character. You know, the archaeologist...

And @Ana, didn't someone present a reasonable theory that Peach + Luigi = Rosalina's parents until Nintendo said NO I WILL NOT ANNOUNCE ANYTHING ON THE MATTER ANYMORE YOU SMELLY AMERICANS CAN STEW IN YOUR CURIOSITY

[Jave]

Daisy was never suggested to be Luigi's love interest in ANY Mario media until Mario Kart Wii where Daisy Circuit featured statues of the two dancing together (as well as their baby selves playing together). In canon, Luigi and Daisy have never even interacted.

Yeah, about that...

[Anacybele]

I don't count that instance, as who else would've been Luigi's caddy in a golf game back then? Toad? xP

I'm surprised that Luigi didn't get those colors in Smash since Mario did though.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jave]

I don't count that instance, as who else would've been Luigi's caddy in a golf game back then? Toad? xP

Why wouldn't it count? It happened, so it's canonical. You can't just come up with arbitrary reasons to sweep something under the rug.

[Carter]

Actually, I'd say that Daisy has gone the opposite route and become more different from Peach in a similar way to Luigi having been differentiated from Mario, but to a much lesser extent. Her original design had her looking exactly like Peach aside from the color scheme. She now has a somewhat different dress and a completely different face and hair. She just needs to appear in mainstream games again. She doesn't even need to be playable, she can be a major supporting character or something like I have her in my writing.

Also, fun fact: Rosalina was originally intended to be a relative of Peach. I also think she resembles Peach more than Daisy ever did aside from the dress.

Mmhmm.

On the subject on who looks more like Peach, I don't want to be the main reason of post, so I'll just put that in a spoiler.

So, would you agree that all three princesses have at least similar faces?

Daisy's dress is very similar to Peach's dress. Differences being, it's yellow (or orange) and has two flaps at the bottom instead of one. Daisy has flower gems in the EXACT same places as Peach's blue gems. They're also the same height are they not? They also strikingly similar crown patterns, just, once again, Daisy has flowers.

Now Rosalina. Her dress, does not have the round bumps at her hips. Not only that, but the entire dress pattern is just... different! It doesn't cover her shoulder's either. However, Rosalina does have gems in the same places as Peach. Her crown is also silver, not golden. And as Smash 4 depicts her, the gems on the crown are a LOT smaller.

Now about Daisy going the opposite route of what I said... is that true?

Never would've known! Daisy is great, and I love her. But on the topic of Smash, now that we have 7 Mario characters, with Rosalina, Bowser Jr., and Dr. Mario, I think we won't be seeing a new Mario one in SSB5. Not only that, but I've seen many people compare her to Peach, and that saddens me.

It might be hard to pull Daisy out of the water, but if Nintendo wants to pull her back to mainstream, they can definitely try.

[Anacybele]

Arbitrary reasons? I'm stating fact. I read that Daisy kisses Mario at the end of Super Mario Land. Therefore, she was intended to be another love interest for him.

Carter: I did say "aside from the dress" after all. But I agree that Rosalina and Peach have very similar faces. Daisy though. not so much.

I just don't at all see why Daisy couldn't at least have been an alternate model for Peach. She already had a model in Brawl since she got a Striker trophy, why not use that as the base and modify it? Or modify one of her other recent models?

Edited September 16, 2014 by Anacybele

[IceBrand]

Arbitrary reasons? I'm stating fact. I read that Daisy kisses Mario at the end of Super Mario Land. Therefore, she was intended to be another love interest for him.

Carter: I did say "aside from the dress" after all. But I agree that Rosalina and Peach have very similar faces. Daisy though. not so much.

Mario moustache attracts all the women. That's a given. Also technical Rosalina is Peaches daughter.

[Jave]

Arbitrary reasons? I'm stating fact. I read that Daisy kisses Mario at the end of Super Mario Land. Therefore, she was intended to be another love interest for him.

Eeehhh... I don't think you're catching my point here. You claim that Luigi and Daisy have never interacted in the series prior to MKWii, and I point out their interaction (or the game's title screen no less) in NES Open Tournament, but to you that doesn't count for reasons that only you consider valid.

Whether she was intended to be a love interest for Mario originally is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making.

[Anacybele]

I said IN CANON they never interacted. Meaning the main series. Not spinoffs. When I brought up MKWii, I brought it up as the only instance where they were ever portrayed as love interests at all. And it's non-canon because it's a spinoff.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Anacybele

[Elieson]

Yeah, about that...

I don't count that instance, as who else would've been Luigi's caddy in a golf game back then? Toad? xP

I'm surprised that Luigi didn't get those colors in Smash since Mario did though.

Have you watched the Super Mario Bros movie? That aint' no spinoff

Edited September 16, 2014 by Sara.

[Jave]

Well, a lot of the Mario pairings are based on instances in the spinoff games because it's were the characters get to interact the most. I do consider every Mario game to be part of a big canon, with the mainline games (and the RPGs too, I guess) being the ones where "important" stuff happens and the spinoffs to be more like gatherings where everyone gets together for friendly competitions. I mean, it's not like these are different characters.

But if you REALLY want to dive into what's canon and what isn't, then you find out that Daisy doesn't even exist in the canon Mario universe. Shigeru Miyamoto does not consider Super Mario Land (and SML2) to be mainline, so if you're going to limit Mario canon to only the mainline games, then Super Mario Land is non-canon. Which likely explains why Daisy never shows up in mainline Mario games. She's not a part of that universe.

[Carter]

I just don't at all see why Daisy couldn't at least have been an alternate model for Peach. She already had a model in Brawl since she got a Striker trophy, why not use that as the base and modify it? Or modify one of her other recent models?

She definitely should've.

I mean, they did it for Olimar being Alph. And, Bowser Jr. didn't even get recolors. All his palette swaps are the Koopalings. Daisy could've been added with Peach.

[Florete]

So even though I didn't care too much, a friend of mine was eligible for demo codes and since he has no friends other than myself and my brother, he gave us both codes, so now I'm about to be smashing.

[Kon]

Except it WAS much of an exaggeration, because nowhere was I implying that Sakurai was horrible and that he should die. In fact, I can't believe you would use such wording.

Also, maybe I didn't know Sakurai did more than he intended. Geez.

Oh, that's what you were on about? That was a really sarcastic hyperbole to further illustrate the ridiculousness of this, although I have seen many people who have actually said things along this line due to the announcement.

Then you didn't read his entire post ~o3o~

Except Daisy was created as the princess of a kingdom entirely separate from Peach's and was meant to be her own character and another love interest for Mario, not Luigi. Waluigi was literally made only so Wario would have a partner in spinoff games like Mario Kart: Double Dash, with the gag of "Luigi's rival" being slapped on him. Waluigi was literally just filler, much like Baby Daisy and Baby Rosalina. Daisy was not. Plus she has been around for a LOT longer. Hell, Waluigi has yet to even appear in a Wario game.

Daisy was never suggested to be Luigi's love interest in ANY Mario media until Mario Kart Wii where Daisy Circuit featured statues of the two dancing together (as well as their baby selves playing together). In canon, Luigi and Daisy have never even interacted.

She was only created to fill that damsel-in-distress role so Mario could save someone not named Peach in not Mushroom Kingdom

Nevermind that she hasn't been in a single main series game since 1989

Arbitrary reasons? I'm stating fact. I read that Daisy kisses Mario at the end of Super Mario Land. Therefore, she was intended to be another love interest for him.

Carter: I did say "aside from the dress" after all. But I agree that Rosalina and Peach have very similar faces. Daisy though. not so much.

I just don't at all see why Daisy couldn't at least have been an alternate model for Peach. She already had a model in Brawl since she got a Striker trophy, why not use that as the base and modify it? Or modify one of her other recent models?

Because all kisses are romantic amirite?

Daisy was really only changed so she wouldn't be such an obvious palette swap of Peach when she started popping up in the Party/Sports games ~o3o~

I can agree with the alt costume, at least