SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Tsunami922]

Who else is in the top 5?

[DodgeDusk]

Well, tier lists aren't really much to go by right now, since the scene is too early. People are saying Diddy, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina, Robin, and Sheik are up there, however

Not sure if it warrants a double post, so I'll just post it here

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/12/uk_retailer_game_cashes_in_on_intense_amiibo_demand_by_hiking_price

UK's specialist gaming store, GAME, have recent increased prices for Amiibos from £11.99 to £14.99, after seeing the high demand for them. Over here, that's give-or-take £5 more than Skylanders NFC figurines. That's nuts

Edited December 5, 2014 by DodgeDusk

[Elieson]

Robin is top five?

[Jotari]

Yeah that surprises me too. S/He's kind of slow and Nosferatu isn't all that great an attack. Elwind is a good recovery but it leaves you super open for attacks. Smashes and specials will eventually loose strength for a while even if you don't spam them. I like Robin but s/he just doesn't strike me as the kind of characters the pros would favor.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Jotari

[Anacybele]

Yeah, Robin can't possibly be top five. Or even top ten. He's too slow and lacks power. And Elwind is decent for recovery, but as Jotari stated it leaves Robin a sitting duck. His smash attacks suck range-wise (I find them missing a LOT) too. He has a good jab, Arcfire, and thunder tomes. That's about it.

Surprisngly (and yet unsurprisingly), Ike is most likely the best FE character, given his recent buffs and the nerfs Marth got. Lucina is nearly the same as Marth, obviously.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jave]

Marth got nerfed? I remember reading he (and Lucina) were nearly the same after the patch.

[Elieson]

Yeah, Robin can't possibly be top five. Or even top ten. He's too slow and lacks power. And Elwind is decent for recovery, but as Jotari stated it leaves Robin a sitting duck. His smash attacks suck range-wise (I find them missing a LOT) too. He has a good jab, Arcfire, and thunder tomes. That's about it.

Surprisngly (and yet unsurprisingly), Ike is most likely the best FE character, given his recent buffs and the nerfs Marth got. Lucina is nearly the same as Marth, obviously.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Robin has solid power with the Levin sword, and his Thunder versatility is extremely hard on shields. Thorons are a nightmare for far-knockbacked offstage recovery in Glory matches. (Plus, preNerf he had the triple jump, though i'm 99% sure that's been removed). While I wouldn't consider him Top5 material, I think he's only really lacking in long-term damage due to Levin/Tome breaks, and because his Downspecial is about as crappy as they come. Personally, I think Elwind is one of the best recovery moves out there as it's a recovery that can effectively punish ledgeguarders if used right. It's not a willy-nilly use-on-the-ground special move like say, Luigi or Ike have, but i think it serves a purpose quite well regardless.

Still, maybe Top10 in my book, but not Top5.

Marth is over Lucina if only because tipper smashes kill FAR earlier with Marth's tippers rather than Lucina's. Lucina's like a practice Marth IMO, and while I enjoy using her, a player with more skill would get far more out of Marth than they would get out of Lucina.

[Jotari]

Marth got nerfed? I remember reading he (and Lucina) were nearly the same after the patch.

I think she might have meant nerfed since Brawl.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Jotari

[Chloe Neo]

Robin seems like a good character for top 10.

[Jave]

Well, here's the current tier list for the Wii U version according to Eventhubs. Bear in mind this is very subject to change due to the game's recency, but it does seem to give a general idea of which characters are the best and which are just plain bad. Funny how everything begins and ends with DK.

As for the FE characters, well... see for yourselves, their placement may surprise you. Or not.

[Elieson]

Holy Crap Olimar isn't bottom of the bottom! That IS the surprise!

Kinda surprised that Zelda is so low, but i don't know where I'd put her otherwise, maybe around Peach. Other than that I'm pretty accepting of that list. Maybe switch Lucario and Yoshi though? They're close as hell regardless

[Chloe Neo]

Yeah people like peach are bound to be at the bottom plus Zelda.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Serah

[Jave]

Peach is far from the best, but she's definitely not bottom tier material.

[Ema Skye]

This is what the Japanese tier list looks like right now. Their list is only based off of tournament results, and so characters that are near the bottom aren't winning tournaments in Japan while characters towards the top are.

[Jedi]

I like how the majority of my best characters are near the bottom in the Japan one. ;/

[Samias]

A lot of characters in the bottom tier have won in North American tournaments. Charizard, Ike, Robin and Shulk all do quite well in the NA scene. Surprised to see Marth so low, though. He might be nerfed in range and can't SH double fair anymore but he's one of the few characters who is really solid at KOing before 100% due to his tipper hitting like a heavy character.

Not surprised to see Mii Brawler be reevaluated by many players. The up B options of Brawler are all insanely good. Gunner is also being reevaluated for having some interesting movement options propelled by aerials. Dark Pit and regular Pit having that huge gulf of characters between them is pretty funny, considering the only difference is that Dark Pit's arrows are garbage and his side B takes longer to KO due to its knockback angle. Pit also has a better ftilt. Turns out that is enough to matter a ton!

Poor Samus. She's better than bottom, but no one plays her, hence the extremely low placement. Somehow I suspect the FE cast is in the same boat, judging by tournament placements all over NA.

Edit: Someone copied a statement by one of the bigger people in the Japanese scene responsible for the list:

I can see people outside Japan being astonished at the TIER LIST of JAPAN. But this is not just scored from a tournament result. Our SHI-G crew, 11 people including 9B, Abadango, Umiushi(biggest Wifi TO), JUN(also a Wifi TO tagging with Umiushi), Shimitake, Yui have scored each character individually and took the average. (In Japan, tournament rules are usually customs off and use only omega stages, or plus Battlefield at most. 2 stock 7 min.) Many Japanese players agree with this ratings, and actually we can't understand why the US scene regard Rosalina so strong (9B and Rain used to main Rosalina but they gave up). I watch foreign videos so I know how low tier Japanese characters can be played, though. Like Mario and Shulk. But this difference in view must be saying that the newest Smash game is way more balanced than the former ones ! (We've even written in the article that a D tier character can win tournaments.)

No wonder Little Mac isn't low tier! This explains a lot about certain placements. Certain characters who do well in NA really enjoy the counterpick stages and Smashville is our most popular stage thanks to the dynamic platform. After that, in NA we prefer Battlefield as our most neutral stage and FD is never a first-pick stage.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Samias

[Elieson]

A lot of characters in the bottom tier have won in North American tournaments. Charizard, Ike, Robin and Shulk all do quite well in the NA scene. Surprised to see Marth so low, though. He might be nerfed in range and can't SH double fair anymore but he's one of the few characters who is really solid at KOing before 100% due to his tipper hitting like a heavy character.

Not surprised to see Mii Brawler be reevaluated by many players. The up B options of Brawler are all insanely good. Gunner is also being reevaluated for having some interesting movement options propelled by aerials. Dark Pit and regular Pit having that huge gulf of characters between them is pretty funny, considering the only difference is that Dark Pit's arrows are garbage and his side B takes longer to KO due to its knockback angle. Pit also has a better ftilt. Turns out that is enough to matter a ton!

Poor Samus. She's better than bottom, but no one plays her, hence the extremely low placement. Somehow I suspect the FE cast is in the same boat, judging by tournament placements all over NA.

Fun fact, I've yet to see a Japanese Samus player. I saw one japanese ZSS though, and I showed her that a suit of armor really does make the Chozo Bounty Hunter what she deserves to be with a bomb meteor for the 2nd KO.

I didn't expect Miis to be allowed in J!Tourneys though, since they're essentially banned from NA stuff.

[Chloe Neo]

What's a tourney ? On SSB4 I mean, is it like the one on brawl.

[Anacybele]

I think she might have meant nerfed since Brawl.

Yeah, this is what I meant.

That Japanese list is crap. Ike is certainly not that low anymore due to the buffs he got in the 3DS update.

As for the Wii U list. Raising Ike as much as they did was smart. Though I still think he should be a little higher than the Prime Meridian of the list (24 out of 48 is literally the halfway mark. :P). Luigi got raised too, which I'm glad of. But I still think he's better than that placing. I've wrecked a lot with him. The Japanese list has a more accurate placing of Luigi, imo. But it's still crap because tournament results are clearly not the way to go due to what I just mentioned about Ike.

[Samias]

That Japanese list is crap. Ike is certainly not that low anymore due to the buffs he got in the 3DS update.

I wouldn't call it a crap list, but once you get to about C tier it's VERY hard to make judgments about a character's worth in this game. The people who made the list have gone to say that the difference between tiers is pretty negligible. That said, the characters in the top tiers are very accurate and also reflect the Japanese scene's playstyle, which is more rushdown play rather than careful spacing. Hence why Marth, Ike, Samus, and Zelda are so low, even compared to North America, as NA prefers spacing. Their stage selection is also completely different from NA and focuses on FD/omega stages while North America has the Wii U version of the game and greatly prefers Smashville and Battlefield. Ike and Shulk really want to play Battlefield so they can focus on making use of the huge arcs on their aerials.

[Anacybele]

Seriously? The Japanese need a good lesson in competitive play. FD and Omega stages greatly favor characters with projectiles due to the lack of platforms. I can guarantee a lot of people agree with this too.

[Chloe Neo]

What's the difference between the Japanese brawler list and the NA and EU ones ?

[Anacybele]

Read what Samias just said. He pretty much explains it.

[Elieson]

Read what Samias just said. He pretty much explains it.

*She*

---

NA players prefer different maps, which favor different characters. In general, the same top 5 brawlers are the same top 5 across the world.

[Generic General]

But it's still crap because tournament results are clearly not the way to go due to what I just mentioned about Ike.

From SmashWiki:

"In gaming, a tier list is a list that ranks all characters in order of their potential to win under tournament conditions, assuming equal skill on the part of each player. A tier list is decided based on the analysis of the following:

• The metagame and the effectiveness of the characters' strategies
• Each character's moveset and statistics
• Each character's matchup spread
• Each character's tournament results"

Edited December 5, 2014 by Smogon'sLawnMower