Fixed weapon ranks in Fire Emblem.

[The Void]

Of all the FE games, Genealogy of the Holy War is the only FE game where weapon ranks can only be raised by promoting.

Now, are you against a future FE bringing back fixed weapon ranks? Especially if there were Arms Scrolls here and there?

Edited June 27, 2013 by The Void

[Narga_Rocks]

Of all the FE games, Genealogy of the Holy War is the only FE game where weapon ranks can only be raised by promoting.

Now, are you against a future FE bringing back fixed weapon ranks? Especially if there were Arms Scrolls here and there?

I'm only for it if there are Master Knights that can use nearly every non-holy weapon in the game.

[cyron]

I like the concept, it gives differentiation between the classes, and prevents mounted units from accessing op weaponry

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Need to be ballanced a bit but its fine I guess

Edited June 27, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[Rehab]

Cyron, are you aware that that a bunch of the units to whom the best weapons in the game are locked in fe4 are mounted units? "Weapon rank only changes with promotion" is not the whole story of fe4's weapon rank system.

I don't think I understand what the fe4 weapon rank system, removed from the holy blood system, is supposed to be going for. I don't remember if weapon rank is supposed to be related to class by default, but with all the instances of holy blood in fe4 it might as well not have been, at least for the player.

As for a game that actually did have fe4's weapon rank system divorced from holy blood, I guess I just don't see how it would be preferable to gameplay have that particular limitation. It also kinda strains my suspension of disbelief to be told to imagine that somebody can't ever practice with a kind of weapon enough to eventually be able to wield better but less wieldy versions of that weapon.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Rehab

[shadykid]

I like the concept, it gives differentiation between the classes, and prevents mounted units from accessing op weaponry

so what do you think of FE4 Master Knights

Edited June 27, 2013 by shadykid

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I like the concept, it gives differentiation between the classes, and prevents mounted units from accessing op weaponry

Sigurd, Seliph, Cuan, Altenna, Ares, and Levin!Arthur would like to have a word with you

In all fairness, though, it does suck when weaker units can't use better weapons unless you gave them good parents/promoted them. Let's face it, people like Patty are not getting promoted most of the time. Even if she's Holyn's kid or someone like that. That's my one major issue with weapon ranks. Weak units get weak weapons.

[Tables]

Cyron, are you aware that that a bunch of the units to whom the best weapons in the game are locked in fe4 are mounted units? "Weapon rank only changes with promotion" is not the whole story of fe4's weapon rank system.

The Holy Weapons are kind of a different beast, characters who have those are pretty much automatically amazing. And FE4's weapon system weakens mounted units, along with lowering their stats, but of course movement is basically everything in LTC FE4, so it's easy to not realise that say Aira has better stats than Delmud at a lower level, and higher weapon ranks as well.

I don't think I understand what the fe4 weapon rank system, removed from the holy blood system, is supposed to be going for. I don't remember if weapon rank is supposed to be related to class by default, but with all the instances of holy blood in fe4 it might as well not have been, at least for the player.

Every class has weapon levels. Generally for mounted units it's B until after promotion, and for foot units is usually A from the start. If it was slightly more penalising, it would be a nice idea, but Holy Blood and the fact there's enough good weapons at C and B rank does make it kind of irrelevant.

As for a game that actually did have fe4's weapon rank system divorced from holy blood, I guess I just don't see how it would be preferable to have that limitation.

The main idea would be, if properly balanced, mounted classes could be given a legitimate penalty compared to non-mounted classes. I quite like FE4's system, it means you don't need to worry about weapon levels as much, you can either use a weapon or can't. But I don't know if I'd like ti see it return.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

HB less changes in FE4 - Off the top of my head.....

Sigurd still get lolSSS(lets face it, SSS is like almost half the reason why Siggy is freaking overpowered)

Ethlyn does not get to wield SS

Finn still get Brave Lance(which IIRC is a Mounted exclusive in FE4)

So does Fury

So does Cuan

Ayra get Silver Sword and Brave Sword(unchanged pretty much >_>)

Dew/Patty gets.... nothing. Patty get worse for obvious reason thanks to no Holy Blood

Leif is now unable to wield Silver Sword(assuming Prince are not getting A Swords here)

Eyvel loses her access to Holy Weapon

.....yeah FE4 system make it really obvious that it allows every mounted unit to access OP weapon, with and without HB

The simple solution is to make Braves into A Rank

Edited June 27, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[Rehab]

Haha I mean I played the game+know the system, but I don't really get why they did it like that, assuming they had a reason other than "we felt like it/thought it'd be a neat experiment," considering all the units with HB basically mucked up any semblance of uniformity in it

If they gave a physics-based explanation for why certain units can't wield certain weapons (axes too heavy for pegasus knights or whatever, just an example (if you argue that this point doesn't make sense based on the example I'll send you a very strongly-worded, irritated note)) then I could at least understand that, but.. weapon ranks just kinda refer to "how much better a weapon than mass-produced crap you can use." It's already kind of a stretch to say somebody who can wield an iron weapon might not be able to wield a steel weapon, going farther and saying they'll never be able to, like, I'm not sure how to explain that without just going "because we said so"

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Thats a problem sure

If you take a look on it a bit more, prepromotes are basically having a field day in FE4(Sigurd with SSS is the biggest example) and B Rank is a kind of benchmark for a lot of them

And I love how nobody bring up the joke weapon known as FE4 Bolganone and Tornado

Edited June 27, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[Baldrick]

It doesn't make any sense to arbitarily deny mounted units the best weapons, but bows being unable to shoot further than a javelin doesn't either. FE's combat has never been realistic, so fixed weapon ranks should be judged on how they affect the gameplay first and foremost.

In FE4, it wasn't really a disadvantage because several mounted units had holy blood, promoted mounted units mostly had A ranks and a B rank gave you a decent variety of weapons anyway. If you don't implement the holy blood system alongside it and change the max ranks to C/B, it could be an effective nerf.

[dondon151]

I like the concept, it gives differentiation between the classes, and prevents mounted units from accessing op weaponry

there are other ways, like locking weapons to non-mounted classes.

[NinjaMonkey]

I like the concept, it gives differentiation between the classes, and prevents mounted units from accessing op weaponry

And when was the last time that OP weapons existed? Oh yeah, FE5...

[Anouleth]

I think it's ok.

[Peppy]

I really don't want to see fixed weapon ranks appear in another FE game, to be honest.

[shadykid]

only if IS actually managed to correctly balance it, something that I have little faith in them managing to do correctly

Edited June 28, 2013 by shadykid

[Refa]

And when was the last time that OP weapons existed? Oh yeah, FE5...

FE5 didn't have fixed weapon ranks...

[Psych]

Only if Characters have fixed ranks. It would actually say hey this cav is better at lances or this one is better at swords. They could still go up with promotion and arms scrolls but I think with individual caps this would really differentiate units well.

[The Void]

If they gave a physics-based explanation for why certain units can't wield certain weapons (axes too heavy for pegasus knights or whatever, just an example (if you argue that this point doesn't make sense based on the example I'll send you a very strongly-worded, irritated note)) then I could at least understand that, but.. weapon ranks just kinda refer to "how much better a weapon than mass-produced crap you can use." It's already kind of a stretch to say somebody who can wield an iron weapon might not be able to wield a steel weapon, going farther and saying they'll never be able to, like, I'm not sure how to explain that without just going "because we said so"

Is it worse than something like Nino being able to use a Fire tome while Canas (who is a scholar) can't?

[bottlegnomes]

Only if Characters have fixed ranks. It would actually say hey this cav is better at lances or this one is better at swords. They could still go up with promotion and arms scrolls but I think with individual caps this would really differentiate units well.

This pretty much. You could have class weapon levels and individual bonuses, like personal caps in Awakening, though that would amount to pretty much the same thing as holy blood if not balanced particularly well.

Edited July 1, 2013 by bottlegnomes

[Rehab]

Is it worse than something like Nino being able to use a Fire tome while Canas (who is a scholar) can't?

They've left how magic works an open question IIRC, like we don't know whether or not you're born able to use certain types only, or whether each school of magic (or each individual spell?) require specialized training that Canas simply might not have undergone, or what. By contrast, I don't remember weapon ranks having ever been portrayed as anything but "how skillful a unit is at wielding a type of weapon," with the exception of holy blood etc. So, yeah, I think they're somewhat different things, and that it'd be necessary to explain to the audience what the in-universe logic behind the change is, after all this time.

I'm also just not sure why it'd be necessary, or better than "you start out only barely able to use a weapon type, and with use you improve and can wield more subtypes of that weapon, more skillfully." It seems like a solution in search of a problem.

[The Void]

It could differentiate playable characters more. And tone down certain characters, buff others.

[NinjaMonkey]

FE5 didn't have fixed weapon ranks...

That wasn't what I was on about.

[The Void]

You doubt that fixed weapons could deal with that?