NFL 2013-2014 Season!

[Narga_Rocks]

How often do guys get suspended for dirty hits in the nfl? I know it happens in the NHL, but I don't pay enough attention to the nfl. Like, all I know is that if you wreck a guy's career you get a 15 yard penalty for a personal foul, and only if the ref is paying attention.

[Skynstein]

I'm amazed that, with all the countermeasures to prevent mistakes, there are still referee mistakes in the NFL. European soccer could learn a thing or two from the American football (and other sports while we're at it), but it seems the falibility never ceases.

[Anacybele]

Hey, the refs are human too. They're not perfect and never will be. There will continue to be mistakes, though hopefully not many.

And the Steelers have gotten fines and shit handed to them. James Harrison was fined multiple times for some of his hard hits. Mike Tomlin just got fined this season for the stunt he pulled against the Ravens! And Ben was suspended for four games a couple years ago because of that whole rape case fiasco. And I still don't believe Ben really tried to rape anyone. Not to say that the victim was lying, there could've just been a major misunderstanding. And whether he did anything wrong or not, the guy's still come far in redeeming himself and being on a good behavior.

[Narga_Rocks]

Chud may or may not have been a mistake, but I wouldn't worry about Pettine as much as Chud. Pettine managed to improve last years Bills defense from something like 27th to 4th in DVOA this year. He's done ridiculous things with that Bills D, at this point you better hope for a QB at #4 (probably not Bridgewater or Manziel at that point, considering the Texans and Jaguars will have snatched them and the Rams don't need to draft an early QB) and a good OC hiring. One of those two is pretty likely.

And even though I have Ana ignored I assume that she said something about SB40 being won fairly. No, that is bullshit, and we all know it's bullshit because a ref literally said that he will take that games officiating to his grave because of how awful it was. That Steelers team also had a dirty road to the playoffs because they blew up Carson's knee (tore three ligaments with a late hit if I recall) in those playoffs, not that I'd want a Bengals/Steelers dominated division (which wouldn't last long once 2008 spins around, or even 2007 if Billick gets fired a year earlier) but an incredibly late hit more or less fucked up his career. Also in turn caused the perception that some of the new QB benefitting rules were on Tom Brady but really it was on Carson Palmer, also lead to the Raiders losing a bunch of draft picks for Palmer and then a turn of events that lead to this ridiculous cap space that the Raiders have and the Cardinals actually having a good QB for once.

@bold: unless they paid off the refs or the refs were biased for some other reason, they won it fair and square. Whatever mistakes were made, fairness shouldn't be called into question. Legitimacy on the other hand...

But regardless, the first allegedly blown call was in the first quarter. Something about offensive pass interference that people didn't like getting it called. Let's say it shouldn't have been called. If the officials made every call perfectly, that moment changes the game completely.

Also, the Seahawks were robbed of one Super Bowl by the refs. At least that's what every Seahawks fan on the internet has been saying for years, and I'm inclined to agree for obvious reasons.

The only way a team can be "robbed" is if it's something similar to 21-20 and a blown field goal call in the final seconds. Then you can say they were robbed because there is no way the call affects the game after that moment. As the final seconds, there's no ambiguity when asking "what if". Now, if a similarly blown call on a field goal happens at the end of the first half, or whenever with enough time left, you can't say that the losing team was "robbed" because of that missed field goal. Yes, with 3 more points they "win" 23-21, but do you honestly think the second half goes the EXACT SAME WAY if the calls are made differently? Who is to say the steelers wouldn't have won super bowl XL anyway if there weren't calls that the ref states he blew when he looks back on it? Fact is, the game is in the books as a Steeler's win, and unless you can prove the refs intentionally blew the calls, that's the way it goes down.

[Da Bear]

I don't see the point of arguing the legitimacy of past games. The Steelers won SB40 and tthere's nothing that can change that.

For this Super Bowl I don't particularly like either team but I'd rather it go to the Seahawks because I like Wilson and Sherman gave the best post game interview ever last Sunday.

[Lord Raven]

Why argue anything then? Just because we can't fix it doesn't mean we can't talk about it.

How often do guys get suspended for dirty hits in the nfl? I know it happens in the NHL, but I don't pay enough attention to the nfl. Like, all I know is that if you wreck a guy's career you get a 15 yard penalty for a personal foul, and only if the ref is paying attention.

Back when it happened to Palmer - and here's a very good account of the way his career has gone - it wasn't a foul, and it became one as a result of the hit. Players do get fined btw. It was also a very late hit that occurred right after a 66 yard pass deep, and it stood as his only postseason pass until 2009. It's one of the reasons I'm glad Palmer's got somewhat of a resurgence in Arizona that's continuing to look up, even though he's an asshole. After Palmer threw the pass, a second or two later Kimojust dove for below his legs and killed his ACL, MCL, and PCL. Incredibly dirty hit.

And legitimacy, fair and square, it's splitting hairs. I don't believe they won it either way, and I believe that Jerome Bettis' retirement was a factor in that game in terms of the refs. I mainly believe that because McAulee said he can't sleep at night for some of those calls. I firmly believe the Seahawks were robbed of the chance at winning, if it were won by the Steelers more legitimately (I'll play w/ your words) then I wouldn't be complaining. I also recall Hasselbeck throwing a pick and he, after tackling the ballcarrier, got an illegal block in the back penalty. On a tackle. Leading to a 15 yard penalty. More stuff here. But huge calls always went against Seattle in that game. Was also pretty mad about Arizona, but it was Warner's fault for throwing that pick six then somehow Pittsburgh had a beautiful pass-and-catch that lead to a game winner. Still mad, for many reasons, but I actually hate the Steelers.

Still want the Broncos to win, there's a few years before they have to throw out big contracts to Sherman and Thomas, whereas Peyton's window is running out and he's playing excellently in the playoffs so far. If only Wayne, Harrison, and Clark were on this team lol, no way in hell would I be seeing all these damned dropped passes all the time, and they'd be more likely to fight for catches which Denver receivers seem to be allergic to.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

Still mad, for many reasons, but I actually hate the Steelers.

And this, my friends, is why I always said Raven's biased against the Steelers and that that's why he keeps making them look evil. Maybe not entirely, but still.

Also, that season was Bill Cowher's retirement too. The Steelers earned it and so did he. He finally forged a Super Bowl-winning team.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Anacybele

[Narga_Rocks]

And legitimacy, fair and square, it's splitting hairs. I don't believe they won it either way, and I believe that Jerome Bettis' retirement was a factor in that game in terms of the refs. I mainly believe that because McAulee said he can't sleep at night for some of those calls. I firmly believe the Seahawks were robbed of the chance at winning, if it were won by the Steelers more legitimately (I'll play w/ your words) then I wouldn't be complaining. I also recall Hasselbeck throwing a pick and he, after tackling the ballcarrier, got an illegal block in the back penalty. On a tackle. Leading to a 15 yard penalty. More stuff here. But huge calls always went against Seattle in that game. Was also pretty mad about Arizona, but it was Warner's fault for throwing that pick six then somehow Pittsburgh had a beautiful pass-and-catch that lead to a game winner. Still mad, for many reasons, but I actually hate the Steelers.

See, saying they were "robbed of the chance at winning" is better than saying outright they were robbed. Even if the refs were "against them" or whatever words you'd use, stating that they unequivocally would have won in a "fair" game, which you pretty much implied earlier, is off-base.

Also, I'm pretty sure the umpire who blew the perfect game on the 27th out sometimes can't sleep at night, either. That kind of guilt doesn't have to be from intent. A screw-up is actually more likely to cause guilt than intent. If the guy intentionally blew a bunch of calls because he wanted Jerome Bettis to win a super bowl, the only way he'd lose sleep over it is if he changed his mind later about wanting the guy to get a super bowl. In any case, losing sleep is not proof that the refs gave the game to the steelers. You can believe what you want, though. If you want to believe non-proof is proof, have fun with that.

"I know that I did my best at that time, but it wasn't good enough,"

Edited January 24, 2014 by Narga_Rocks

[Skynstein]

Well, there's no proof the referees favored the Steelers, is there? By favoring I mean deliberately acting in favor of a team, not making mistakes.

Though no one likes when mistakes happen. I follow soccer and soccer history is tainted with many mistakes and match fixing scandals...

Edited January 24, 2014 by Malebolganone

[Anacybele]

We also don't know if the Steelers would've actually lost had the right calls been made. For all we know, they could have very well still ended up the victors. And I think they would have, for Bettis and Cowher.

[Lord Raven]

Seems like there's a chance that he followed an order from a higher-up, and not necessarily the refs being in favor of it. Steelers are a very lucrative team through their history due to 4 Super Bowls, Seahawks have had single digit playoff appearances (something to that extent - spending most of your NFL life in the same division as the Broncos, Raiders, and Chargers is rough as hell) and by the time of this Super Bowl and are a small demography of fans. I think the only Seahawks player in the hall of fame was Steve Largent, whereas the Steelers had more or less the whole 70s roster. A Steelers win would make more money throughout the whole NFL than a Seattle win, especially since Jerome Bettis is more loved than Shaun Alexander, Ben was just coming off an OROY season, compared to Matt Hasselbeck who was a castoff ffrom the Packers. Seattle was also shifted from one conference to the other when the Texans entered the league, which kinda shows that the NFL may not care too much about them...

There's no proof, and I highly doubt that the refs would make it so blatant. But blatant incompetence is generally an awful thing and it's either fishy at worst or a legitimate complaint at best. They won it, that's what matters now, but their whole playoff run was dirty and the super bowl was impure, but it's not like we'd be arguing about this if Ana shut up about the Steelers for once, which I can still see in every post i see ignored by her

I'm amazed that, with all the countermeasures to prevent mistakes, there are still referee mistakes in the NFL. European soccer could learn a thing or two from the American football (and other sports while we're at it), but it seems the falibility never ceases.

That's not true. Automatic replays are only for turnovers that are called on the field and scoring plays. If it's not called as such, no automatic review. It's the reason why the Bowman fumble recovery wasn't called as such in the Niners-Seahawks game, because it was called down by contact or something similar and they can't review a fumble call that wasn't made. I don't even think that could be challenged, and the fact that there was a pile involved really makes it hard on a ref.

Stuff like Holding, PI, etc are calls that are not challengable and stay put unless the penalty is declined by the "victim." Catches can be booth reviewed after the 2 minute warning, things like that. But a lot of the calls that are erroneous were stuff like Holding, PI, etc which tend to swing games heavily cannot be challenged. That won't be fixed anytime soon, unless you want 5 hour games that consist of reviewing every single penalty or play.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Narga_Rocks]

Seems like there's a chance that he followed an order from a higher-up, and not necessarily the refs being in favor of it. Steelers are a very lucrative team through their history due to 4 Super Bowls, Seahawks have had single digit playoff appearances (something to that extent - spending most of your NFL life in the same division as the Broncos, Raiders, and Chargers is rough as hell) and by the time of this Super Bowl and are a small demography of fans. I think the only Seahawks player in the hall of fame was Steve Largent, whereas the Steelers had more or less the whole 70s roster. A Steelers win would make more money throughout the whole NFL than a Seattle win, especially since Jerome Bettis is more loved than Shaun Alexander, Ben was just coming off an OROY season, compared to Matt Hasselbeck who was a castoff ffrom the Packers. Seattle was also shifted from one conference to the other when the Texans entered the league, which kinda shows that the NFL may not care too much about them...

There's no proof, and I highly doubt that the refs would make it so blatant. But blatant incompetence is generally an awful thing and it's either fishy at worst or a legitimate complaint at best. They won it, that's what matters now, but their whole playoff run was dirty and the super bowl was impure, but it's not like we'd be arguing about this if Ana shut up about the Steelers for once

Cleveland Steve started it this time, dude. "If Ana shut up about the Steelers for once" it would mean she lay down and took a punch to the face from him. Would you take a punch to the face and not say anything? Show me some instances.

[swordherociege]

So this weekend will debut the most exciting game of the NFL season. I'm happy to see five Chicagoans playing in it.

As for the Pro Bowl itself, I like the idea of it, as NFL stars are allowed to be selected from the However, it is a complete joke of an event, as there is only offense with next to no defense (my favorite part of the game).

As for bad calls in football games, I say get over it. I hate the NFL referees, as Sharon Rodgers can't be sacked unless it somehow results in a Packers gain. It also doesn't help that certain calls seem scripted towards one team in a matchup. Perhaps that happened with the Steelers, I can't remember that Super Bowl well unfortunately. And while it is easy to blame the refs for a game, the team still technically has a chance to win- if they completely outplay their opponent, no amount of horrible calls can sway that game. Best example that I can remember was the Giants-Packers playoff game a few years back.

[Lord Raven]

Hard to do that when they outplayed the Steelers for a half then kinda lost it when a bunch of their big plays kept getting turned back... Ben was 9/21 for an int and a rushing TD and hasselbeck was significantly better yet they couldn't get anything going. Very easy for morale to get you down when you're dealing with refs like that.

Aaron Rodgers getting sacked results in a Packers gain? I remember him getting killed in the Ravens game this year (the only Packers game I watched aside from the playoff game and the Cowboys games) and there wasn't a single call. I haven't seen Rodgers get called a lot either, and he's been in the Top 5 in sacks the past 2-3 years or some shit... Roughing the passer is called like once a game (although it's always irritating when it's called) so I wouldn't put too much stock on that. I do hate the most random holding calls and a ton of DPI calls, though.

Cleveland Steve started it this time, dude. "If Ana shut up about the Steelers for once" it would mean she lay down and took a punch to the face from him. Would you take a punch to the face and not say anything? Show me some instances.

It's hard to remember these things when it's happened every other time in this thread...

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Narga_Rocks]

Hard to do that when they outplayed for a half... Ben was 9/21 for an int and a rushing TD and hasselbeck was significantly better yet they couldn't get anything going

It's hard to remember these things when it's happened every other time in this thread...

It's not hard to go back and check. But yes, a lot of times Ana brings up the Steelers' occasional bouts of awesomeness out of nowhere. I think I'll do that about Eli and the Patriots now. Remember when Eli stopped a perfect season? That was awesome. Let's talk about that for a page and a half.

[Lord Raven]

I don't feel like it too much, but a few pages ago I brought up Kurt Warner and she brought up the Harrison pick-six. Nothing to do with my point. Also, trying to argue Antonio Brown is more athletic than Megatron because Megatron's size holds him back. Then backing away because I used gifs I googled and she didnt have gif software (once again bringing up Brown out of nowhere, hyping him up a week or so after the Steelers were eliminated)

Anyways, fuck Eli Manning, remember the Kerry Collins era in New York? It was a good time for us over here, even if we only saw it for a game. For the record, I think the biggest missed opportunity that year is the fact that the Greatest Show on Turf didn't make the Super Bowl. I was 8 so it was exciting no matter what, but in retrospect it would've been a lot closer to what we will probably see in a week and a half. Can you imagine Warner, Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, Marshall Faulk, Az-Zahir Hakim against Rod Woodson, Ray Lewis, Tony Siragusa, Adalius Thomas, Chris McAllister, Jamie Sharper, and Duane Starks who were all coached by Marvin Lewis (and the dline was coached by Rex Ryan)?

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lord Raven

[swordherociege]

About Rodgers, mainly referring to the Bears-Packers game at the end of the season. He got "sacked" twice (though they didn't count as sacks), and on both personal fouls were called while being tackled in the torso area. And the Packer gain was the fumble recovery touchdown. While it was a fumble, it does end the era of the Brady rule for QBs, which might be an interesting topic

[Lord Raven]

What's the Brady rule? Afaik that was the add-on to the Carson Palmer rule

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lord Raven

[nflchamp]

See, saying they were "robbed of the chance at winning" is better than saying outright they were robbed. Even if the refs were "against them" or whatever words you'd use, stating that they unequivocally would have won in a "fair" game, which you pretty much implied earlier, is off-base.

Also, I'm pretty sure the umpire who blew the perfect game on the 27th out sometimes can't sleep at night, either. That kind of guilt doesn't have to be from intent. A screw-up is actually more likely to cause guilt than intent. If the guy intentionally blew a bunch of calls because he wanted Jerome Bettis to win a super bowl, the only way he'd lose sleep over it is if he changed his mind later about wanting the guy to get a super bowl. In any case, losing sleep is not proof that the refs gave the game to the steelers. You can believe what you want, though. If you want to believe non-proof is proof, have fun with that.

"I know that I did my best at that time, but it wasn't good enough,"

I don't think that the ump that "blew" the 27th out on Detroit's perfect game was wrong to make the call nor do I think a big deal should have been made out of it. Yes, with video evidence it was an out. Watch it in real time and you realize it's a lot closer than you might think from slow-mo replay. In fact, it is a call that gets blown on a regular basis. MLB didn't change the call, nor should they.

On that note, I don't care how "robbed" of a Super Bowl the Seahawks (or anyone else) was.

Edit: @Raven - The "tuck rule" as it was commonly called was abolished. I'm pretty sure that is what is being referred to as the Brady rule here. It wouldn't have effected the Rodgers fumble in the Bears-Packers game though.

Edited January 24, 2014 by nflchamp

[Jiac]

Seahawks vs Broncos...

I'm going to be biased,Manning should stick to Papa Johns commercials and not win his next Super Bowl.And Russel Wilson being a quarterback who can run and pass really well...Still waiting for Manning or Wilson to have a torn ACL and still play

And this, my friends, is why I always said Raven's biased against the Steelers and that that's why he keeps making them look evil. Maybe not entirely, but still.

Also, that season was Bill Cowher's retirement too. The Steelers earned it and so did he. He finally forged a Super Bowl-winning team.

Many teams are biased against the Steelers,namely the Raiders and Browns,but the rivalry isn't as big as with the Ravens. Mainly because the team has a lot of credit for being better than how they really perform,like they're the invincible team according to their fanbase.They are a good team consisting of Ben Rapistberger Roethlisberger and Troy Polamalu,but when they don't make it to the playoffs,they become exaggeratedly outraged and find a way to give a reason why they should've made the playoffs,the Steelers are human too,they make mistakes.

They did earn the Super Bowl trophy,but it's just the bad calls that made the game unenjoyable.

[Lord Raven]

Edit: @Raven - The "tuck rule" as it was commonly called was abolished. I'm pretty sure that is what is being referred to as the Brady rule here. It wouldn't have effected the Rodgers fumble in the Bears-Packers game though.

That was a rule before Brady was in the league. It went uncalled against Drew Bledsoe a few years prior to the Raiders game, or something to that extent.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

I don't feel like it too much, but a few pages ago I brought up Kurt Warner and she brought up the Harrison pick-six. Nothing to do with my point.

Raven is correct here, this did have nothing to do with his point. But that doesn't matter, I felt like mentioning the Harrison pick-six, that's all. It wasn't really directed at anyone in particular, I was reminded of it simply because Raven brought up Kurt Warner.

How this makes me such a bad person that shouldn't be posting here anymore baffles me. Maybe I do bring up the Steelers a lot, but I don't know nearly as much about any other team, now do I?

[Phoenix Wright]

And this, my friends, is why I always said Raven's biased against the Steelers and that that's why he keeps making them look evil. Maybe not entirely, but still.

Also, that season was Bill Cowher's retirement too. The Steelers earned it and so did he. He finally forged a Super Bowl-winning team.

In my area (Cali), it's hard to find anyone that doesn't "hate" the Steelers (and gives two shits about the NFL). People don't like teams that aren't theirs. People have pride in their teams because of geographic location and that's completely fine--it's how we work. I also dislike the Steelers. I dislike/hate/don't care about ~70% of NFL teams.

How this makes me such a bad person that shouldn't be posting here anymore baffles me. Maybe I do bring up the Steelers a lot, but I don't know nearly as much about any other team, now do I?

This is a fair point, as I also don't know very much about most teams in the NFL. I've got like 6 or 7 teams under my belt. Because of this, though, I pretty much lurk and remain quiet until I have the time to post AND contribute to the discussion (though, my posts in this topic basically boil down to rooting for the team I want to win, because analyzing properly takes too much work :P). Perhaps the solution is not to stop posting here, but maybe just post less? People don't always want to talk about the Steelers or vaguely tie a different discussion to the Steelers somehow. Or perhaps you can lurk/read up more on other teams so you can particpate in non-Steeler discussion?

[Anacybele]

This is a fair point, as I also don't know very much about most teams in the NFL. I've got like 6 or 7 teams under my belt. Because of this, though, I pretty much lurk and remain quiet until I have the time to post AND contribute to the discussion (though, my posts in this topic basically boil down to rooting for the team I want to win, because analyzing properly takes too much work :P). Perhaps the solution is not to stop posting here, but maybe just post less? People don't always want to talk about the Steelers or vaguely tie a different discussion to the Steelers somehow. Or perhaps you can lurk/read up more on other teams so you can particpate in non-Steeler discussion?

Okay, that's a good idea. I'll do more research once the next season rolls around. There isn't really a whole lot to talk about at this point since all that's left of 2013-2014 is the Super Bowl.

[nflchamp]

That was a rule before Brady was in the league. It went uncalled against Drew Bledsoe a few years prior to the Raiders game, or something to that extent.

And the only reason anyone knows of it is because it got Brady a win against the Raiders in 2002 and eventually a title.