Yen'Fey's morality

[Rewjeo]

Who is Yen'fay?

That boss in the lava chapter that Avatar solos.

Edit: So as to be more on topic, that kind of is how I view Yen'fay. I was disappointed by everything involving him, considering that this series is bursting at the seams with tragic villains that are generally well executed, and pretty much chalk up everything regarding him to bad writing.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Rewjeo

[CT075]

imo yen'fay was fe13's attempt to recreate eltosian (eldigan, is that his new name?), but they did it really poorly

[Airship Canon]

imo yen'fay was fe13's attempt to recreate eltosian (eldigan, is that his new name?), but they did it really poorly

That's like the TL;DR version of my posts right there.

They're both dumb and exemplify why pride is a sin- and the deadliest of them all. But Eldigan had lead up, and they did go the distance to show this web of relations to the mains.... and when you do fight Eldigan- he's damn powerful (partially because he's got a HW, and HWs are crazy OP. (hi, 30 MT.))

Yen'fay was a case of "tell" over "show", and he really didn't deliver the feels. He's supposed to be powerful- and all he really felt like was a generic SM with a 1-2 sword. Big whoop. Amatsu might have been notable if it were stronger, but it isn't, so it ain't. And he wasn't a threat like a major boss should be-- hell he felt a pushover even on Lunatic+ (He got Hawkeye/Luna+ when I fought him, too...) This makes you look past him as a boss and more as a character- which was poor, undeveloped and shoddy.

[amadeuscho]

Can't say his original decision in the altered timeline makes him a terrible king and general. Sure Walhart is brutal, and a tyrant, but at the same time- he was faced with annihilation. Opposing Walhart at the time of his decision only delays the inevitable, and gets his sister killed. By instead, allying with Walhart for the time being, he saves the lives of his sister, his people, and his army. Face it, your actual life matters a lot more than your way of life. And those actual lives were protected by his alliance.

On the other hand what does make him terrible on all three accounts, is that when he was faced with this elite group that has won consecutive battles against the empire- including taking down the entire central army, he kept his alliance to the empire instead of changing his allegiance.

Walhart himself is a good one. >_>;; (In case you didn't notice the fact that he had the whole "honorable opponent" thing written all over him, and his intent on annihilating a much more potent threat (I.E. Grima and the Grimleal) justifies a lot of his actions. (Hell, had he not targeted Ferox (over say Plegia), I'd have supported him.))

Yen'fay just came off as a stupider Eldigan, with less lead up.

I think it's the fact that he values his sister above all else that make him a terrible general. He made his calculations mainly with his sister in mind from the way I look at it.

[blah the Prussian]

It is implied that Yenfey was a large reason that Walhart was doing so well. If he hadnt sided with Walhart, Walhart wouldve been left with clods like Cervantes leading his army. Also, yenfey was the only thing keeping the southern dynasts from rebelling. Between that and his tactical prowess, it would seem that the chonsin guys had at least a chance.( just cut off cervantes mustache)

[Airship Canon]

It is implied that Yenfey was a large reason that Walhart was doing so well. If he hadnt sided with Walhart, Walhart wouldve been left with clods like Cervantes leading his army. Also, yenfey was the only thing keeping the southern dynasts from rebelling. Between that and his tactical prowess, it would seem that the chonsin guys had at least a chance.( just cut off cervantes mustache)

I think it's the fact that he values his sister above all else that make him a terrible general. He made his calculations mainly with his sister in mind from the way I look at it.

Standing his ground only serves to get his sister and his people killed. The Chon'sin had something of a chance- yes, but all they could do at best was delay the inevitable- and by that, that means "die slowly, but die none the less". Their stand may last a few years but it wouldn't have prevented Walhart's victory in Valm. Judging by the slight differences, Yen'fay was very on the edge with either decision-- and frankly, it's quite obvious that in the original timeline, he made the wrong one (standing his ground against Walhart). This could only end in a brutal slaughter in an extended war against a foe that they could delay, but not stop.

It hardly matters what the main factor was, when you're faced with the choice between pride and certain death, the wisest course is to surrender. Living to fight another day is not cowardice.

[blah the Prussian]

Standing his ground only serves to get his sister and his people killed. The Chon'sin had something of a chance- yes, but all they could do at best was delay the inevitable- and by that, that means "die slowly, but die none the less". Their stand may last a few years but it wouldn't have prevented Walhart's victory in Valm. Judging by the slight differences, Yen'fay was very on the edge with either decision-- and frankly, it's quite obvious that in the original timeline, he made the wrong one (standing his ground against Walhart). This could only end in a brutal slaughter in an extended war against a foe that they could delay, but not stop.

It hardly matters what the main factor was, when you're faced with the choice between pride and certain death, the wisest course is to surrender. Living to fight another day is not cowardice.

Except he joined with Walhart, making Chroms job harder, and his people were still technically conquered, just peacefully.

[Revan97]

He was a poor ruler who put the love of his sister above his duty to his people. It just never made sense to me that he wouldn't turn on Walhart once he's seen Chrome and friends are capable of fighting back against the empire. You could make the argument that he stayed out of the fighting and surrendered to save his people but that kind of falls apart if you think about it. He still sent his army against the resistence and was slaughtered. The only was that makes sense to me is if he thought he could crush the resistance but keep his sister alive thus saving his people and his sister. I don't know that arc rubbed me the wrong was to be honest.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

He was a poor ruler who put the love of his sister above his duty to his people.

This sounds like someone with Blue Hair AND a Falchion

Hmmmm

[Airship Canon]

Except he joined with Walhart, making Chroms job harder, and his people were still technically conquered, just peacefully.

He made the decision to join Walhart quite a while before Chrom got involved, and it's still better to not die.

The wrong decision in that scenario was to oppose the Conqueror directly: That's only getting your people killed.

His error came when he was faced with Chrom. His vanguard (and that's what it was at the volcano, a vanguard, most likely comprised of his more "elite" forces) was getting obliterated-- when Chrom reached him, he should've realized at that point that, even if he didn't know that Steiger had fallen (which may be reasonable, a few lies from Excellus could spin the situation) that Chrom's force was enough to keep Say'ri safe, and turn the tables on Walhart. When Chrom's force broke that line and reached him, he should've backed down from his ruse.

[amadeuscho]

The fact he loves his sister so much is what makes his actions so compelling. He stayed with Walhart to protect his sister. Even after his sister is saved by Chrom, he is compelled by his part of deal to keep us his word and still fight with Walhart. He follows his orders and sends his part of the army against Chrom, fully prepared to die (and let his army die) because he can't kill his sister. That is what makes him a poor general.

[Revan97]

The fact he loves his sister so much is what makes his actions so compelling. He stayed with Walhart to protect his sister. Even after his sister is saved by Chrom, he is compelled by his part of deal to keep us his word and still fight with Walhart. He follows his orders and sends his part of the army against Chrom, fully prepared to die (and let his army die) because he can't kill his sister. That is what makes him a poor general.

See my problem with this is he is keeping to his part of the deal. If he's so honorable he shouldn't he shouldn't be honoring a deal that was made under duress.

It's like if someone held a hostage and then said they would spare them if you kill someone. If a police officer came along and freed the hostage no one would honor that deal. Not a perfect comparison but the point I'm trying to make is IMO his honor is not a redeeming trait but stupidity.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

See my problem with this is he is keeping to his part of the deal. If he's so honorable he shouldn't he shouldn't be honoring a deal that was made under duress.

It's like if someone held a hostage and then said they would spare them if you kill someone. If a police officer came along and freed the hostage no one would honor that deal. Not a perfect comparison but the point I'm trying to make is IMO his honor is not a redeeming trait but stupidity.

Honor is always a stupidity when its potrayed in that situation

See: Eltshan

[amadeuscho]

See my problem with this is he is keeping to his part of the deal. If he's so honorable he shouldn't he shouldn't be honoring a deal that was made under duress.

It's like if someone held a hostage and then said they would spare them if you kill someone. If a police officer came along and freed the hostage no one would honor that deal. Not a perfect comparison but the point I'm trying to make is IMO his honor is not a redeeming trait but stupidity.

Yeah, I have a problem with that to, but I think that makes his honor his tragic flaw. After it all, it leads to his death.

[Airship Canon]

The fact he loves his sister so much is what makes his actions so compelling. He stayed with Walhart to protect his sister. Even after his sister is saved by Chrom, he is compelled by his part of deal to keep us his word and still fight with Walhart. He follows his orders and sends his part of the army against Chrom, fully prepared to die (and let his army die) because he can't kill his sister. That is what makes him a poor general.

That's his problem right there. Nothing else.

Once he was reached by Chrom, he shouldn't have stayed silent- and should've joined forces with him. Has nothing to do with Say'ri.

Really, Yen'fay comes off as pretty indecisive. He goes from making one really good tactical decision (Surrendering against a force that was -going- to annihilate him, his sister, and his people), to making a really stupid one (choosing to fight outright against Chrom. (The initial fight makes sense. The Chon'sin were the Elites in Valm. If Chrom's force had trouble against Yen'fay's vanguard, well... yeah, it wouldn't make sense to join him, but seeing as how Chrom manages to reach him directly...))

But hey, pride begets only a fall.

[Acacia Sgt]

After seeing how Excellus can just warp in and out, as it happened in both Chapters 17 and 18, I think Yen'Fay probably thought it didn't mattered that Say'Ri was with Chrom, Excellus could just easily warp nearby and BAM, dead sister.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Acacia Sgt

[Airship Canon]

After seeing how Excellus can just warp in and out, as it happened in both Chapters 17 and 18, I think Yen'Fay probably thought it didn't mattered that Say'Ri was with Chrom, Excellus could just easily warp nearby and BAM, dead sister.

Explain his not-vs. Chrom death quotes and the fact that Excellus doesn't warp in and kill Say'ri, Chrom or any other important person in your army then.

The fact of the matter is, it wasn't exactly Excellus himself that Yen'fay was afraid of- Excellus couldn't kill Say'ri himself- no it was his troops that could, and on Excellus's orders would and will, that Yen'fay was afraid of.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Airship Canon

[Revan97]

Explain his not-vs. Chrom death quotes and the fact that Excellus doesn't warp in and kill Say'ri, Chrom or any other important person in your army then.

The fact of the matter is, it wasn't exactly Excellus himself that Yen'fay was afraid of- Excellus couldn't kill Say'ri himself- no it was his troops that could, and on Excellus's orders would and will, that Yen'fay was afraid of.

The death quote bit I think could be explained by Say'Ri thinking that since he completed his side of the deal Excellus would not touch his sister. Naive and stupid as it is. As for not warping in and killing the others I think the reason for that would be excellus knowns he can beat his sister but Chrom and the others he may be uncertain about and since he's shown to be a craven man he might not take the chance.

Playing devil's advocate here. Still not sold on Say'Ri myself.

[Airship Canon]

The death quote bit I think could be explained by Say'Ri thinking that since he completed his side of the deal Excellus would not touch his sister. Naive and stupid as it is. As for not warping in and killing the others I think the reason for that would be excellus knowns he can beat his sister but Chrom and the others he may be uncertain about and since he's shown to be a craven man he might not take the chance.

Playing devil's advocate here. Still not sold on Say'Ri myself.

Can't be, considering he specifically mentions her having found strong allies.

[Acacia Sgt]

Probably it's him thinking that having seen their strength first-hand, he no longer fears that his sister is in any danger, from Excellus or otherwise.

[Airship Canon]

Probably it's him thinking that having seen their strength first-hand, he no longer fears that his sister is in any danger, from Excellus or otherwise.

That contradicts the whole he's afraid Excellus will "warp in and gank her" thing though.

The initial fight- with the vanguard makes sense... why he fights to the death and doesn't stop, and join with Chrom instead on the other hand doesn't.

[Acacia Sgt]

That contradicts the whole he's afraid Excellus will "warp in and gank her" thing though.

The initial fight- with the vanguard makes sense... why he fights to the death and doesn't stop, and join with Chrom instead on the other hand doesn't.

He fears that he will do it if he starts to fight against Walhart, so it's irrelevant after dying since the threat is now empty. Joining Chrom means that Excellus can follow up on his threat.

[Airship Canon]

He fears that he will do it if he starts to fight against Walhart, so it's irrelevant after dying since the threat is now empty. Joining Chrom means that Excellus can follow up on his threat.

That doesn't make any sense though.

Why doesn't he fear that Excellus, who he should know is a lying, deceiving SOB, isn't going to warp in and gank Say'ri after his death to make a point to Chrom's force? He's almost certain she'll be fine once she's with them.

[Acacia Sgt]

That doesn't make any sense though.

Why doesn't he fear that Excellus, who he should know is a lying, deceiving SOB, isn't going to warp in and gank Say'ri after his death to make a point to Chrom's force? He's almost certain she'll be fine once she's with them.

Because Excellus only ever brought up killing Say'Ri to keep Yen'Fay on a leash. There never really was a reason to kill her. It brought no value in the grand scheme of things. So with Yen'Fay gone, Excellus has no reason to go after Say'Ri's life now, at least on the personal level. And after seeing Chrom and co.'s strength, then he knows she'll be fine since they're capable of taking care of Walhart's forces, and probably also knows the southern dynasts will now aid them.

[Aquakat]

Isn't it also that Excellus was hoping that revealing the truth to Say'ri would break her? Seems like a guy that would love to watch someone shatter before going for the easy kill.