BK-201 Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Locket becomes one of the most efficient items in a team fight which is where Sejuani shines. The nerfs changed it from overpowered to strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Rod of Ages is the best item in the game, every champion should build 6 of them. Especially Zed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Locket becomes one of the most efficient items in a team fight which is where Sejuani shines. The nerfs changed it from overpowered to strong. Locket is good when you have allies nearby and enemy aoe damage, specifically magic damage. Usually, the enemy team does not go double AP at least when I play Sejuani, and second of all, the defensive stats are really shit for a tank. It's good on support since they aren't trying to be an unmovable wall, but for the amount of gold, it's not that great on a tank. SV costs 250 more gold more than Locket, and gives 175 HP, 25 MR, and 10% CDR. For a tank like Sejuani who wants to put out more CC and slows to help peel for a carry (since that's best at what Sejuani does), it makes much more sense to get SV than Locket. Unless the enemy team has like Karthus, Maokai, Support Zyra, or just runs so AP heavy where it's a necessity, then it's not really a great idea. Mikeal's is also in a really good spot, and I would usually buy it over Locket as support anyway, since the heal and CC removal is better for your carry than a simple shield. It does have a harder buy since the combine cost is more expensive, I will give you that. If they gave the locket like 10 more MR and armor and maybe moved the armor to the aura then maybe it would be a better item, bu right now it's better buy build defense selfishly and get tankier or try and avoid getting caught out and bursted as a carry than trying to survive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Locket is good when you have allies nearby and enemy aoe damage, specifically magic damage. Usually, the enemy team does not go double AP at least when I play Sejuani, and second of all, the defensive stats are really shit for a tank. It's good on support since they aren't trying to be an unmovable wall, but for the amount of gold, it's not that great on a tank. SV costs 250 more gold more than Locket, and gives 175 HP, 25 MR, and 10% CDR. For a tank like Sejuani who wants to put out more CC and slows to help peel for a carry (since that's best at what Sejuani does), it makes much more sense to get SV than Locket. Unless the enemy team has like Karthus, Maokai, Support Zyra, or just runs so AP heavy where it's a necessity, then it's not really a great idea. Mikeal's is also in a really good spot, and I would usually buy it over Locket as support anyway, since the heal and CC removal is better for your carry than a simple shield. It does have a harder buy since the combine cost is more expensive, I will give you that. If they gave the locket like 10 more MR and armor and maybe moved the armor to the aura then maybe it would be a better item, bu right now it's better buy build defense selfishly and get tankier or try and avoid getting caught out and bursted as a carry than trying to survive it. Right because a support has access to that amount of gold. If you can make your team significantly tankier at the slight cost of being less tanky yourself, it is still a worthwhile investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 20 MR is not going to make your support survive any longer. 20 MR is not going to save your ADC from getting killed by a fed Kass or DFG Ahri, unless they have some second source of MR like a Merc Scimitar. And it's really not going save anyone from a Zed or Yi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 20 MR is not going to make your support survive any longer. 20 MR is not going to save your ADC from getting killed by a fed Kass or DFG Ahri, unless they have some second source of MR like a Merc Scimitar. And it's really not going save anyone from a Zed or Yi. 20 MR is a 20% health increase based off base health and in addition the active. It helps immensely versus AoE and improves your mid power. Spirit Visage is going to save your team far less also. Also if their carries are getting fed you have a problem already. The reason Locket is such a popular pickup for junglers competitively is it enables you to win midgame teamfights and force objectives off of that. Rather than view items in a vacuum you need to see what they offer to you based off time. Let me offer a more obvious example since the mid game is a little bit intricate in comparison when talking about it since it obviously requires a hypothetical laning phase to pan out which increases the variance on the mid game. Early game before the minions have even spawned, one of the most popular item pickups for ADC is Doran's Blade. Rather than start with items that become big, they start with something more gold efficient and more powerful early on, this is similar to Locket. It's aura's value to teammates early on is immense because it is a significant boost in durability relative to the time. It gives you a power spike at the point of purchase and while it might not be the most tanky item in existence, it's mid game power allows you to control the game tempo from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Rod of Ages is the best item in the game, every champion should build 6 of them. Especially Zed. SivHD agrees. 20 MR is not going to make your support survive any longer. 20 MR is not going to save your ADC from getting killed by a fed Kass or DFG Ahri, unless they have some second source of MR like a Merc Scimitar. And it's really not going save anyone from a Zed or Yi. It still makes quite the difference. The fact you only need to build one for your team (and the activated shield is nice too) is why it's such an efficient item to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 TIMES WHEN THORNMAIL IS NOT A TERRIBLE ITEM ON SEJUANI IN ARAM: The enemy team is Ezreal/Vayne/Ashe/Pantheon/Alistar. They had to use abilities to take me down, which gave the rest of my team time to make them pay for it. Got Randuin's second, and was working towards Spirit Visage (as Ezreal went AP), but the game ended before I could do that. It also helps if my team is awesome (which they were). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raivix Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Well then thing about tanks is you don't aim for what you scale with. You aim for what makes you tankier which lets you fulfill your role better. Like Malphite, stacking armor is silly unless it's appropriate but his scaling with armor isn't what guides your itemization. What? Seriously? 40% CDR is mandatory in any serious build on just about anyone who's not an ADC or an energy user. This is especially true on champions that provide more utility than anything else for their team. Having a Sejuani ult every 70 seconds instead of 120 is _massive_. Especially on SR coming out of the jungle. Just being unkillable will not win you fights as a tank, I mean, it's great and all that you don't die, but if you dont have the damage or utility throughout the fight consistently (ie. not waiting on cooldowns 10s out of every 12), you're much more useless than the guy built full tanky CDR with magic pen. Being a tank is great and all, but if you can't give the enemy team a reason to attack your 4.5k hp, 250 armor, 200 mr self, you're useless to your team. Whether that's from damage or 1 second stuns every 5 seconds or a combination of the 2, just building pure tank is generally more detrimental than building tanky damage in most cases. Oh, and items to stay away from in the jungle unless you're massively ahead due to cost: Trinity Force, Sunfire Cape, Rod of Ages, ADC-type items, Needlessly Large Rod items. If you're an AP jungler sorc shoes, haunting guise and abyssal scepter (in other words, magic pen) are your best bets for damage If you're AD, Brutalizer and Hexdrinker makes for a lot of damage while you build tank items the rest of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 What? Seriously? 40% CDR is mandatory in any serious build on just about anyone who's not an ADC or an energy user. This is especially true on champions that provide more utility than anything else for their team. Having a Sejuani ult every 70 seconds instead of 120 is _massive_. Especially on SR coming out of the jungle. Just being unkillable will not win you fights as a tank, I mean, it's great and all that you don't die, but if you dont have the damage or utility throughout the fight consistently (ie. not waiting on cooldowns 10s out of every 12), you're much more useless than the guy built full tanky CDR with magic pen. Being a tank is great and all, but if you can't give the enemy team a reason to attack your 4.5k hp, 250 armor, 200 mr self, you're useless to your team. Whether that's from damage or 1 second stuns every 5 seconds or a combination of the 2, just building pure tank is generally more detrimental than building tanky damage in most cases. Oh, and items to stay away from in the jungle unless you're massively ahead due to cost: Trinity Force, Sunfire Cape, Rod of Ages, ADC-type items, Needlessly Large Rod items. If you're an AP jungler sorc shoes, haunting guise and abyssal scepter (in other words, magic pen) are your best bets for damage If you're AD, Brutalizer and Hexdrinker makes for a lot of damage while you build tank items the rest of the time. Disagree in the sense that the goal isn't a rush to 40% CDR otherwise you would see Ionian boots more. Item actives provide utility, you have to weigh the increased uptime on certain skills versus the actives and utility provided by your new tank items. They have an incentive to kill you because you're heavily mitigating their AoE damage in the midgame if you pick up Locket on Sejuani. Also using your ult is a bad example for Sejuani, it isn't likely to come up twice in a fight unless the fight goes on for a ridiculously long time and in addition, I'm not advocating a 0% CDR build, I'm arguing for a build that optimizes tankily with those stats as a secondary priority. Right because a Sejuani with SV/Golem/Tabi/Randuin is a major threat in comparison to a Sejuani with Locket/Golem/Tabi/Randuin. Both are similarly tanky, the only difference being the overall utility of Locket wins out in mid game skirmishes. Also note that I always advocated for things that allowed you to fulfill the role better as a tank, if CDR makes you a better tank, then build it. I just believe the utility of locket is superior to the CDR of Spirit Visage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0GLLZPFl_A#t=1921 QF guys STARTS NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Rooting for C9, apple pie and freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 i have gym class right at the time c9 vs fnatic starts :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Disagree in the sense that the goal isn't a rush to 40% CDR otherwise you would see Ionian boots more. Item actives provide utility, you have to weigh the increased uptime on certain skills versus the actives and utility provided by your new tank items. They have an incentive to kill you because you're heavily mitigating their AoE damage in the midgame if you pick up Locket on Sejuani. Boots of Lucidity are really...strange. 15% CDR is a severe mismatch of CDR values. I will, however, say that 40% CDR definitely isn't the primary objective. Typically you'll get around 20% CDR in a standard Sej build (and apparently Abyssal >= Banshee >= SV for pure MR choices). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULTRA PRODIGY NUXL Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Hey guys, I just downloaded this a few weeks ago(but then I took a week and a half hiatus) and I love this. My ign is Nuxl and I usually main Singed, but I sometimes play Master Yi and I will play Rammus when I get enough IR to get him back. So yeah, give me a shout when you want to play, I'd be happy to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Hey guys, I just downloaded this a few weeks ago(but then I took a week and a half hiatus) and I love this. My ign is Nuxl and I usually main Singed, but I sometimes play Master Yi and I will play Rammus when I get enough IR to get him back. So yeah, give me a shout when you want to play, I'd be happy to. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=36590 Fill out your application there, and feel free to add me if you're on NA~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) Hey guys, I just downloaded this a few weeks ago(but then I took a week and a half hiatus) and I love this. My ign is Nuxl and I usually main Singed, but I sometimes play Master Yi and I will play Rammus when I get enough IR to get him back. So yeah, give me a shout when you want to play, I'd be happy to. Adding you (assuming you're on NA). Why not? I main Singed too...also Nasus...and Gangplank...and Dunkmaster Yi...and Zac...and horse....and (soon to be) Sejuani...and a bunch of other stupid crap. http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/47279896 <<<< This you? Level 6? ;o Edited September 24, 2013 by Interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 There is also a Nuxl on EUNE server. Same person? Regardless, I main EUW. I abandoned my NA account like 8 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 i am the master of the league of throws we were 51/26 at their nexus, and lost four teamfights in a row (one of which we had baron for!) got us aced and they just pushed through it was ranked, too god dammit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Play Jax, acquire wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Play Triforce Bruisers anythings, acquire wins. Fixed for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULTRA PRODIGY NUXL Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) There is also a Nuxl on EUNE server. Same person? Regardless, I main EUW. I abandoned my NA account like 8 months ago. Probably not, I'm at NA @Interest Yeah, probably Edited September 24, 2013 by Rift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Fixed for you. Jax is still better than other triforce wielders IMO. He can use Botrk really well and is a hyper carry. His two primary damage items are overbuffed atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 (edited) It's funny because Bruisers still kinda blow overall in terms of level of influence. Nasus is so OP now to the point if you get enough kills and farm you can steamroll teams all day. Edited September 25, 2013 by Interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 If he's so OP obviously not all bruisers blow ;p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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