League of Legends

[Solanum Tuberosum]

Hey Shaun, do you play on EUW or NA servers?

looks like NA lol

http://www.lolking.net/search?name=vanguardraven&x=0&y=0

ps all you NA players should totally add me because i too lazy to look back in thread. summoner is same as sf name.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Piemanmj

[Ether]

Yo. So I started rather recently, and to be honest, I`m not very good(I`ve been told I`m improving, we`ll see). Still, may as well let you guys know I exist. Ethereal Saber, NA server.

[Constable Reggie]

Oh god I hate this game. Solid and fun core gameplay makes me come back, but the idiots in this game are aughhh.

Why is such a thing allowed to exist.

username: Davinatorman

[Kiriane]

That's what you use the /ignore for. Or just play premades.

SFers should come online more often so we can do full premades.

[Constable Reggie]

Why would you even think of not banning Kass if you're gonna first pick Anivia

Just destroyed an Anivia ranked as Kass, oh god the easiness.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

FP anivia is OP.

[Kiriane]

because froggen beats kass using anivia

[Silvercrow]

Anivia vs. Kass is hardly a stomp in either direction

realistically Anivia can annihilate Kass before level 6, if a gank goes off even moderately successfully and delays Kass's level 6 then even better. By that point Anivia should probably have Chalice and can shrug off Kass's damage while shoving the lane out with her ultimate which makes trading hard and prevents him from roaming lest he miss a ton of exp/gold. Once she gets Catalyst on top of the Chalice she is simply not going to be pushed out by Kassadin unless she's messed up badly already. All you have to do is survive until that point (which isn't that hard if you're not camped, as you have egg)

I mean, yea it's not Anivia's best matchup in the world, but it's hardly an automatic loss for Anivia. It's ridiculous how much people overestimate Kassadin

Edited July 31, 2012 by Silvercrow

[Silver Walrus]

I'm thinking I should get back into ranked again some day soon, I've been doing nothing but winning in solo queue with ad carries lately. Once I brush up on the other roles that I haven't played in ages I might actually go for it. Haven't played a jungler in about a year.

[Constable Reggie]

Anivia vs. Kass is hardly a stomp in either direction

realistically Anivia can annihilate Kass before level 6, if a gank goes off even moderately successfully and delays Kass's level 6 then even better. By that point Anivia should probably have Chalice and can shrug off Kass's damage while shoving the lane out with her ultimate which makes trading hard and prevents him from roaming lest he miss a ton of exp/gold. Once she gets Catalyst on top of the Chalice she is simply not going to be pushed out by Kassadin unless she's messed up badly already. All you have to do is survive until that point (which isn't that hard if you're not camped, as you have egg)

I mean, yea it's not Anivia's best matchup in the world, but it's hardly an automatic loss for Anivia. It's ridiculous how much people overestimate Kassadin

I disagree with this. Assuming both have full ap runes, Kass' null sphere is great harass and can also be used to farm. Yes, before 6 Kass isn't so great, but as long as one plays safe (ie dodging niv's slow as shit skillshot), Kass can survive lane phase easily. Anivia relies a lot on blue, so if she doesn't get it, Kass can destroy her. After 6, it's not even a challenge. Ganks against a kass are impossible once he gets his ult. Also, Kass' roaming potential is hilariously good.

The kass game I brought up had Maokai ganking me twice before 6, making me 0/2 while Anivia was doing fine. Once I turned 6, I asked for a gank from my jungler, and once Anivia died, I started to steamroll extremely hard (great roaming helps Kass a lot too) even with the bad start. If you've got competent ap runes, Kass can easily go Negatron -> abyssal -> mercury treads -> maybe chalice, along with his passive, to easily shrug off any ap damage and do a bunch of damage himself.

It's easily possible for a great Niv player to stomp a mediocre Kass player, but on terms of raw statistics, skills and whatnot, Kass stomps Anivia. (Almost) 3 second silence does wonders. There's a reason why silencer is so lul against other intelligence heroes.

By the way, the majority of LoL players agree with me. http://championselect.net/champ/Anivia

edit: teamfights are a different story though: Kass' single champion assasination vs Anivia's huge aoe damage + terrain control

Edited August 1, 2012 by Davinatorman

[Silvercrow]

Beating Kassadin in lane as Anivia has nothing to do with killing him, it's about outfarming (or even going equal) and having superior utility later. That's the whole point, you're not going to outdamage him (unless it's before level 6), but he's not going to kill you by jumping with his combo unless you're out of position and the jungler shows up to kill you as well.

It doesn't take a transcendent Anivia player to realize that Anivia is all about battlefield control--she has good nuke damage, but does not need to build for it to highlight her strengths--letting her build tank items if the lane goes sour, or possibly taking exhaust over ignite if you're desperate. So all you do is control the flow of your lane and the creep positioning, something Kassadin is fairly weak against because he doesn't want to be using his E charges on pushing waves. Controlling her blue definitely defeats her, though, but that's not a weakness specific to Kassadin (coincidentally, controlling Kassadin's blue hurts him very badly as well). And ignoring random people's opinions, this indicates that at the very best Kass is sporting a ~52% win rate against Anivia. I feel like the only reason Kassadin is mentioned there is because there are so few casters that counter Anivia in and of themselves (i.e. without ganks or without controlling blue) in any capacity that he bears mentioning. That and there was a period where people were really crazy about him

Not to say that there aren't situations where Kassadin will just walk all over Anivia because of a million different factors and make her useless in short order (the matchup is still more based on skill than anything else, after all), and it's probably a lot more likely than the reverse happening, but it's far from GG SURRENDER AT 20 if you get him laning against Anivia

As for Silencer, well, it's pretty difficult to compare him to Kassadin because their silences and overall kits work so differently... and Silencer, for what I've seen, isn't even considered particularly good, just annoying. But I've played a lot less of that game than league, so I can't really make any well educated comments there

[Constable Reggie]

The link you brought up isn't really credible (I'm assuming all it's doing is counting games where a Kass was on one side and an Anivia was on the other), because if it was I could argue amumu counters riven, poppy and malphite counter ziggs, singed counters anivia, amumu counters nasus, and so forth. A (large) general consensus of champion counters is more reliable than raw stats that generalize.

As I've said before, Kassadin doesn't need to rely on as much gold as someone like Anivia does, since his damage bases are very high. Yes, he'll probably lose to Anivia in terms of cs, but since he should be roaming anyway, the gold difference is lessened. Kassadin seldom runs out of mana (unless you're some idiot who likes to spam riftwalk for some reason) for a number of reasons, blue is just icing on his dominant post-6 phase. He doesn't rely on blue nearly as much as Anivia, who is probably the most mana reliant champ in the game. Add to the fact that Anivia is one of the squishiest characters in the game, her flash frost can be easily dodged by riftwalk, and that Kass has free 15% reduced damage, and it adds up to Kassadin being a a great counter choice to Anivia. Take it from someone who's played more than 20 ranked games.

I only brought up Silencer for his e and ult, which completely shut down intelligence heroes for the (very long) duration. Kassadin's silence is relatively long in terms of LoL cc. Silencer isn't doing shit against people like Sniper, but he's able to completely shut down caster heroes. Similarly, Kassadin isn't doing shit against ad champs, but put him against an ap mid and he won't disappoint. He's been nerfed down to a sort of niche status though, you won't do much against tanky, defensive mids like Morde, Galio, Rumble, etc, but he is still great against squishy ap mids. Hence he counters champs like Anivia, Karthus, Veigar, etc.

But this isn't really that important of a topic to debate over, so this is going to be my last post on Niv vs Kass.

[Silvercrow]

He's been nerfed down to a sort of niche status though, you won't do much against tanky, defensive mids like Morde, Galio, Rumble, etc, but he is still great against squishy ap mids. Hence he counters champs like Anivia, Karthus, Veigar, etc.

This is exactly what I'm saying. Played, runed, and built properly, Anivia is a tanky, defensive mid. Maybe not at absolute base stats, but Kassadin isn't going to kill you that early, so you have time to adjust.

Take it from someone who's played more than 20 ranked games.

And really? Since when did this mean anything?

[BK-201]

The link you brought up isn't really credible (I'm assuming all it's doing is counting games where a Kass was on one side and an Anivia was on the other), because if it was I could argue amumu counters riven, poppy and malphite counter ziggs, singed counters anivia, amumu counters nasus, and so forth. A (large) general consensus of champion counters is more reliable than raw stats that generalize.

As I've said before, Kassadin doesn't need to rely on as much gold as someone like Anivia does, since his damage bases are very high. Yes, he'll probably lose to Anivia in terms of cs, but since he should be roaming anyway, the gold difference is lessened. Kassadin seldom runs out of mana (unless you're some idiot who likes to spam riftwalk for some reason) for a number of reasons, blue is just icing on his dominant post-6 phase. He doesn't rely on blue nearly as much as Anivia, who is probably the most mana reliant champ in the game. Add to the fact that Anivia is one of the squishiest characters in the game, her flash frost can be easily dodged by riftwalk, and that Kass has free 15% reduced damage, and it adds up to Kassadin being a a great counter choice to Anivia. Take it from someone who's played more than 20 ranked games.

I only brought up Silencer for his e and ult, which completely shut down intelligence heroes for the (very long) duration. Kassadin's silence is relatively long in terms of LoL cc. Silencer isn't doing shit against people like Sniper, but he's able to completely shut down caster heroes. Similarly, Kassadin isn't doing shit against ad champs, but put him against an ap mid and he won't disappoint. He's been nerfed down to a sort of niche status though, you won't do much against tanky, defensive mids like Morde, Galio, Rumble, etc, but he is still great against squishy ap mids. Hence he counters champs like Anivia, Karthus, Veigar, etc.

But this isn't really that important of a topic to debate over, so this is going to be my last post on Niv vs Kass.

Yeah and your link isn't credible either. A bunch of players lack fundamental understanding of this game and that allows input from anyone without credentials. Also, reliance on consensus is a logical fallacy anyways. I'm not going to argue Kassadin will win the lane (he can win in CS against Anivia), but whether Anivia gets dominated is different.

This part is flawed. Anivia has to rely less on gold than Kassadin (she has higher base damages, derp). Given chalice's new build path, reliance on mana is diminished. Kassadin will win lane phase, but Anivia will still carry viability. 20 ranked games is a joke.

Yeah, you're in a different game when you talk. Aside from 'Sniper', the problem is to silence Anivia can require him to get out of position, a highly risky move. Anivia builds tanky mage AFAIK.

[Silvercrow]

20 ranked games is a joke.

The 20 ranked games thing was a jab at me, since I haven't played more than 20 ranked games in Season 2, going only 11-3 in wins-losses (I played more in season 1, but I was bad then anyway so whatever) because I don't care about playing ranked personally. For what it's worth though, I still beat his top elo before it decayed (and was still doing well in that bracket), so it's still a stupid thing to bring up.

However, it ignores the 600 normal wins I have over him, and probably 70% of all my games are me playing mid lane anyway. Even if it's not ranked, I'm still in a pretty decent normal game bracket and I should think I understand the matchups at least decently well at this point.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Silvercrow

[Kiriane]

I'll attest to that. I've gamed with Silvercrow a couple of times, and his mid lane is really boss. Along with that thing he said about his top elo, because it's true.

That site, by the way, lists Vladimir as a counter to Malphite. As a sustained DPS mage, yes, he's a general counter. But he's pretty much never going to beat Malphite in lane, and can in fact lose the lane very, very easily.

[BK-201]

I'll attest to that. I've gamed with Silvercrow a couple of times, and his mid lane is really boss. Along with that thing he said about his top elo, because it's true.

That site, by the way, lists Vladimir as a counter to Malphite. As a sustained DPS mage, yes, he's a general counter. But he's pretty much never going to beat Malphite in lane, and can in fact lose the lane very, very easily.

Ranked games is not the greatest indicator ever especially given how Ego Ignaxio didn't bother in S1 and when he did hit Platinum fairly easily.

I think Vlad is capable of pushing Malph out though.

Edited August 2, 2012 by BK-201

[_____]

Silencer isn't doing shit against people like Sniper, but he's able to completely shut down caster heroes.

Actually, if Silencer wasn't so under-powered right now, he'd be pretty great against Sniper. Forcing Sniper to waste his first skill in lane or take a ton of harass damage is one of the many, many counters to Sniper and would allow for easy gank set-ups to allow his intelligence to scale harder. By the time Sniper is actually a credible threat, Silencer's Glaives should provide enough power to make him not worthless. It's one of the few match-ups I think Silencer would actually do fairly well in.

But that's a bit off-topic.

[Constable Reggie]

The 20 ranked games thing was a jab at me, since I haven't played more than 20 ranked games in Season 2, going only 11-3 in wins-losses (I played more in season 1, but I was bad then anyway so whatever) because I don't care about playing ranked personally. For what it's worth though, I still beat his top elo before it decayed (and was still doing well in that bracket), so it's still a stupid thing to bring up.

However, it ignores the 600 normal wins I have over him, and probably 70% of all my games are me playing mid lane anyway. Even if it's not ranked, I'm still in a pretty decent normal game bracket and I should think I understand the matchups at least decently well at this point.

I brought it up because ranked games show a great deal of what the general population consider op, and for good reasons. For a very, very, very long time, Kassadin was permabanned (I was around 1400-1500 elo, yeah yeah not the best but I gave up), almost to the degree of Morgana. It wasn't until after constant nerfs he got unbanned.

Also, elo is a joke. I can win my first 3 games and go up to like 1550 instantly, which I assume is what you were able to do. The amount of elo the first few games give are ridiculous, so you're unlucky, it will take a hell of a long time to get back up. I quit playing ranked a couple months back (few ranked games here and there), so my elo has decayed a bit.

Also, I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit pretentious, I just strongly believe Kassadin is very powerful (against typical mid champs, lol against Galio or ad mids), since I use him time to time to dominate mid derps, like the game I brought up originally. I'd be happy to play some games with you if you ever want to.

As for Dota, well, I'm not that great at Dota (mostly just played lan with friends), but I used to use Silencer at times to trololol my friends who went heavy caster champs, so I guess it's just personal experience talking.

edit: goddamnit why did they change the queue setup to Dota 2's, Dota 2's queue sucks.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Davinatorman

[Silvercrow]

I brought it up because ranked games show a great deal of what the general population consider op, and for good reasons. For a very, very, very long time, Kassadin was permabanned (I was around 1400-1500 elo, yeah yeah not the best but I gave up), almost to the degree of Morgana. It wasn't until after constant nerfs he got unbanned.

If there's anything this game has taught me, it's that popular opinion and reality are often quite different. Kassadin is permabanned in ranked because he's a pubstar, not because he's overbearingly strong or anything though. Same reason Shaco was banned for a long time.

Also, elo is a joke. I can win my first 3 games and go up to like 1550 instantly, which I assume is what you were able to do. The amount of elo the first few games give are ridiculous, so you're unlucky, it will take a hell of a long time to get back up. I quit playing ranked a couple months back (few ranked games here and there), so my elo has decayed a bit.

I agree, and that's why I said the comment about not having played ranked games was stupid. Elo is a number, and if you haven't played enough ranked games it doesn't represent your actual skill.

Also, I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit pretentious, I just strongly believe Kassadin is very powerful (against typical mid champs, lol against Galio or ad mids), since I use him time to time to dominate mid derps, like the game I brought up originally. I'd be happy to play some games with you if you ever want to.

I understand, since I'm a Leblanc player myself and they're quite similar, but I'm not going to argue that Leblanc is winning every lane for the same reasons I'm not gonna argue Kassadin wins every lane, it's simply not realistic because they both have heavily exploitable weaknesses that experienced players will take advantage of, a big one being a lack of wave clear which means they don't actually control the lane by themselves unless they're in super pubstar mode or they're against someone like Karthus. I think Leblanc is a stronger pick against Anivia than Kassadin is, but I wouldn't assume I would automatically win because I got that pick against Anivia. There are simply too many factors and they are not hard counters.

[Constable Reggie]

If there's anything this game has taught me, it's that popular opinion and reality are often quite different. Kassadin is permabanned in ranked because he's a pubstar, not because he's overbearingly strong or anything though. Same reason Shaco was banned for a long time.

Kassadin *was* permabanned in ranked, and it was because he countered most mids, not pubstomp, like Darius or Graves. He's not banned anymore because the nerfs took their toll, especially the riftwalk one, so he's more managable.

I agree, and that's why I said the comment about not having played ranked games was stupid. Elo is a number, and if you haven't played enough ranked games it doesn't represent your actual skill.

Regardless of the useless elo number, ranked games are usually more competitive, that's why I brought it up.

As for Leblanc, she can beat most common mids, but she falls off very hard, which is why she isn't so great.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Davinatorman

[BK-201]

Kassadin *was* permabanned in ranked, and it was because he countered most mids, not pubstomp, like Darius or Graves. He's not banned anymore because the nerfs took their toll, especially the riftwalk one, so he's more managable.

Regardless of the useless elo number, ranked games are usually more competitive, that's why I brought it up.

As for Leblanc, she can beat most common mids, but she falls off very hard, which is why she isn't so great.

He's pubstomp. Overbearingly strong pick and we'd see him banned in competitive play.

I've gotten better normals than ranked often, at such a small sample size this is heavily subject to random events.

This is actually one of the more misinformed opinions. She maintains one of the highest single target burst rates. Just the LoL community being stupid again.

[Constable Reggie]

He's really not anymore. He's a niche counterpick now. Over the last few months in my ranked games he wasn't banned at all.

I thought it was the general consensus that ranked is taken more seriously than normals. Hence, ranked.

It's really not. By mid-late game every smart person should have some magic resist, and since LB is mostly single target (w is really risky, as it's also your escape and forces you to go right up to them), she's not doing much. She has the least aoe damage out of all the typical ap mids.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Davinatorman

[Silvercrow]

It's really not. By mid-late game every smart person should have some magic resist, and since LB is mostly single target (w is really risky, as it's also your escape and forces you to go right up to them), she's not doing much. She has the least aoe damage out of all the typical ap mids.

At that point and onwards you don't actually have to full to zero anyone anymore, just deal 70%+ of their HP and silence them for 4 seconds while your team does anything at all. If you're trying to combo without W, you are obviously not going to do any of your damage because it's an integral part of your combo I guess, but otherwise she has like a 4.0 total ratio on her spells, it's actually really really high

That aside though, she still oneshots people with little MR or people lower level than she is. i.e. bottom lane and probably jungle.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Silvercrow

[Constable Reggie]

She can take out a big chunk of one person's health sure, but then what? All her cooldowns except q are long (doesnt' help that a portion of q's damage needs another skill either), and she's only done damage to one person. All other ap champs can contribute some aoe damage, but Leblanc can't, which is what makes her fall off.

Her roaming is just as strong as Kass' though.

edit: I read somewhere that Riot was testing out passive magic pen on Leblanc's ult, not sure if they're going to implement though.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Davinatorman