BrightBow Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Fake difficulty is more like if FE10 gave mastery skills to the "3rd tier" enemies - no matter how good your characters are their survival would depend on luck because most masteries can kill anything. Or the gate/throne bonuses in FE6 that make killing bosses a gamble instead of making them actually hard to kill (like FE5 does!). While I definitely would prefer if the Mastery skills were absent rather then be included the way they are, there shouldn't be any luck involved in dealing with the few third tier bosses since there is plenty of Nihil's to go around. Ike even gets one for free during promotion. Not only that, but the only non-mage (since mage masteries suck anyway) enemies with Masteries are: -Levail, who doesn't move and is defenseless against Sanaki and Micaiah, the former who is forced to survive. -The Black Knight (Hence Ike's free Nihil) -And Deghinsea. (Who famously won't move. And man, does it not matter that he won't attack Kurthnaga and Ena.) So that's nothing that Nihil and maybe Parity can't handle. There should be no luck involved unless you sell Ike's Nihil or something. Well...FE5 thrones aren't exactly a good example of how to make bosses difficult imo. 10 def is way too over the top. I bet lowstr characters will be useless against them. Actually, most of them can deal with them without too much trouble. For one thing, the game has critical hits which double attack power instead of tripping damage. Therefore, getting critical hits allow them to bypass high defense. But the game also has the PCC, which allows tons of units to have a massive chance of a critical hit on the second strike. Sure, you have less options early one. But those options included stuff like the Light Sword, the Fire Sword, Pugi and Wrath among others. And all of them are available from the very first chapter. Edited November 21, 2013 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axie Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Well...FE5 thrones aren't exactly a good example of how to make bosses difficult imo. 10 def is way too over the top. I bet lowstr characters will be useless against them. If you do have the strength, though, you will defeat the boss, no doubt about it. And most of the time you do (as BrightBow explained). In FE6 you can have a super strong character that should be able to defeat the boss easily and still spend turns and turns there because you keep missing. I don't mind the lower hit rates of FE6 in general, but they should have realized the hit rates were already frustrating enough before giving 30 Avoid to bosses - in fact, that Avoid bonus often pushes your Hit rate below 50% and that adds another layer of fake difficulty because of true hit (which in this case hurts you instead of helping you). While I definitely would prefer if the Mastery skills were absent rather then be included the way they are, there shouldn't be any luck involved in dealing with the few third tier bosses since there is plenty of Nihil's to go around. Which is why I was not talking about bosses but rather the "3rd tier" enemies - you know, the ones that are 2nd tier but actually with 3rd tier stats just so they wouldn't have the mastery skills. If they did have the masteries, you would never have enough Nihils and finishing chapters with everyone alive would become luck-based - which is fake difficulty. Edited November 21, 2013 by Axie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Which is why I was not talking about bosses but rather the "3rd tier" enemies - you know, the ones that are 2nd tier but actually with 3rd tier stats just so they wouldn't have the mastery skills. If they did have the masteries, you would never have enough Nihils and finishing chapters with everyone alive would become luck-based - which is fake difficulty. My apologies. I didn't realize you were talking about a hypothetical scenario. My English is of course pretty bad, but I have no idea how I managed to overlook something like a simple "if" among other things. Edited November 21, 2013 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Do you have problem with boss battles in thracia? Use Asvle! Well, I haven't found any Thracia boss battle really hard. Even famous boss, which mug is actually on my avatar isn't that hard (IIRC you can simply put him to sleep by 14 magic Seiram, or by hitting him with blizzard, but I'm not sure that's the tactic which I had tried last time). Gomez can be really easy destroyed by Asvel, Gustav may can be consider as hard, but you can even disarm him( one or two build level up for Pahn and you need also Tina with two magic level up and magic ring to steal his master lance). Edited November 21, 2013 by Nicolas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Yeah I don't think any boss in Thracia is really a problem, except maybe a couple of the Zombielords in the final Reinhardt himself isn't a problem, the problem is the massive platoon that surrounds him and the potentially ridiculous amount of leadership stars you have to deal with The only other boss I'd say even comes close to difficult in Gomez, and he's still not that hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Is there a boss in any FE game that is truly hard? Maybe a handful but that's not the point. The point is that Thracia 776 is the most unforgiving game in the series to newcomers, even without untranslated stats screen and options. Edited November 21, 2013 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Is there a boss in any FE game that is truly hard? Yes, FE6 bosses. "OMG, OMG I'm sitting on throne, and you can't touch me bitch, because I have +40 to avoid, n00b! BWAHAHAHAH!!! PWND!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Oh, Ive never played FE5. But I thought in theory 10 def thrones were a bit over the top. I'll take you guy's word for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 FE's a series where it's tough to have hard bosses. it seems to be one extreme where they're pretty ridiculous (like Gel) or just ridiculously easy (almost all the other ones. One boss that's actually pretty tough is Valter, if you don't cheese him by taking his shield. He's deceptively fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) ^ Caellach too. He's a bulky mofo and I still remember that one time he crit my Gerik in a draft Good times! There are some in a few other FEs too I think: FE9 has Petrine and Bertram. FE10 has none that come to mind FE11 has those earlygame bosses rage FE12 has the first few bosses and some of the "bosses" in Anri's Way are tough because of their spd FE13's only remotely challenging boss is Gangrel imo. Because he can be very tough to double. Edited November 21, 2013 by PKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Oh, Ive never played FE5. But I thought in theory 10 def thrones were a bit over the top. I'll take you guy's word for now. Thrones doesn't negaces Asvel's efficiency against bosses. 13 Mt and 40 crit (with 3 PPC) is pretty much to deal with almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) One boss that's actually pretty tough is Valter, if you don't cheese him by taking his shield. He's deceptively fast. Man I remember when I fought him one time with Cormag, which had the conversation where he'd be so happy to kill him, he ended up missing Valter, only for him to use a Piercing critical. That was both hilarious and painful to watch. FE3 book 2's chapter 2 boss can be pretty annoying. He actually uses the full extent of his 10 movement while you're in a heavily wooded area, he has a few more Dragon Knight buddies with him and he uses a Knight Killer, which about half of your units are vulnerable to. Sure, you have two Archers and a freshly recruited Hunter, but he can be a bit of a surprise on your first run. Then again the same game gave you a ballistae boss with 20 HP, 1 Strength, 1 Defense and nothing else three chapters later. Edited November 21, 2013 by Woodshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomesticHausCat Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) From what I've seen here, it looks like people are divided into two camps here. The people that find that enemies with absurdly high stats make an FE game uber hard. And those that think strange situations, better AI and cheap tactics (like those found in FE5) that the enemies use against you make an FE game über hard. Even if the enemies are weaker. Now as for me, I simply think the hardest FE games are the ones that make you reset the most. And for me those games were 10, 11, and 13 due to the strong enemies found in those games. Fake difficulty or no, these games got me at times. Now I can see how FE5 can be a heavy resetting game seeing as it gives you a lot of crap sometimes. I think a big part as to why I did alright in this one was that I hardly ever used restore, sleep and silence staves. I only really used them in the chapters where there were sleep and silence users on the enemy side. If I had not gotten any of those staves, it would have been a very tough fight in those maps without losing units. I guess the biggest thing this game has going for it is that it can reaaaally screw you over if you overuse specific kinds of equipment. As for hard bosses, there were a few in FE4. In fact I think the hardest parts of 4 were facing the bosses with holy weapons. Also, 9 and 10 had some hard fights. Black Knight is tough to kill in 9 without resolve and wrath on Ike. And Ashnard in hard mode is quite a dick. If you didn't know he moved, he could easily kill one of your healers. And my favorite boss fight in the entire series is Ashera for sure. She's not only tough, but to me she's the only boss in the series that actually feels like a boss fight. Every other boss in the series is just a regular enemy with more stats than the norm. This is true for story important bosses too. However, Ashera had those eight shields around her that you have to take out and tons of spirits are after you too! The only other bosses that really compare are Nergal and Berdo, seeing as you need to take out the mid bosses before taking them out. Which serves a similar purpose gameplay wise to the disablement of Ashera's shields. But the difference is that Ashera is essentially fighting alone and doing some serious heavy hitting attacks every turn. Great ending fight there I gotta say! Edited November 22, 2013 by DomesticHausCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeaderR Elliot Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Thrones doesn't negaces Asvel's efficiency against bosses. 13 Mt and 40 crit (with 3 PPC) is pretty much to deal with almost everything. Sounds that most of the time you would be throwing asvel at all the bosses which is the best method. But from personal experience I must say I missed chapter 4x on my second playthrough (first one i got to a dead end...) so there were some super awesome moments like chapter 8x boss on a throne that is painfully to describe and asvel gets fatigued lots of time because low HP. You just dont assume everyone has asvel (they should) but chapter 4x is really easy to miss for first timers, and then you get a mage 'till uhh homer or salem i forgot lol Edited November 22, 2013 by LeaderR Elliot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I mean, you still have the Fire Sword and Light Sword in a pinch. Pretty sure you can take down Gomez with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 thats the thing about fe5 bosses, sure, they're near impervious to physical attacks, but the game hands so many weapons with high crit/magic swords/etc at you, that's its not an issue they handled prf's well i think (they were too overkill, yeah) but them being exceptionally useful in bosskilling was good design imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 thats the thing about fe5 bosses, sure, they're near impervious to physical attacks, but the game hands so many weapons with high crit/magic swords/etc at you, that's its not an issue they handled prf's well i think (they were too overkill, yeah) but them being exceptionally useful in bosskilling was good design imo agreed i think this is exemplified in the weissmann fight where the dude's basically unkillable with normal weapons but light brand/flame sword murders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Gomez is still a jerk, though. He is way tougher then those before or after him because he is also pretty damn fast, making it extremely hard to use PCC against him. And I am sure, he will flat out dodge the Light and Fire swords most of the time. Asvel might be able to take him down, but given that in Fire Emblem, characters are expected to die occosionally, it's still a problem when a situation can only be beaten using a very specific character, from a bonus chapter no less. Edited November 22, 2013 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 also fatigue and asvel doesn't entirely trivialize gomez either because asvel can't double the dude with his prf and he generally needs some form of M up in order to 2HKO, whereas gomez OHKOs if asvel didn't proc enough HP + def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 10/1 Asvel with holy water has 33 attack with his favourite tome. If he hit, he will deal 30 dmg(while gomze has only 46 hp). They you will probably be able to end him with some magic swords, guy with WRATH or just by moving Asvel out gomez attack range and strike again. If that's not enough, you still have 50% chance to ORKO him (crit + Leif support bonus). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 your crit caps at 25% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 ^ Caellach too. He's a bulky mofo and I still remember that one time he crit my Gerik in a draft Good times! There are some in a few other FEs too I think: FE9 has Petrine and Bertram. FE10 has none that come to mind FE11 has those earlygame bosses rage FE12 has the first few bosses and some of the "bosses" in Anri's Way are tough because of their spd FE13's only remotely challenging boss is Gangrel imo. Because he can be very tough to double. About FE9, my Soren finished her in two rounds before (I only remember this one because of the cool dialogue between them before she dies). I remember Bertram was also easy. IIRC, Oscar and Ike beat him in one turn. I count Deghinsea as a hard boss, at least. Hard Mode Ashnard is also kinda tricky because HE MOVES. And FE9's Black Knight is also tough (though the battle is more luck based than anything). The Black Fang bros were also hard to deal with, imo (the first one more than the last, since he moves). I still have no clue about how I'm supposed to take on Julius without the Book of Naga (though I only tried it on the Shin Patch), but this is optional. Ishtar is also tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 About FE9, my Soren finished her in two rounds before (I only remember this one because of the cool dialogue between them before she dies). I remember Bertram was also easy. IIRC, Oscar and Ike beat him in one turn. I count Deghinsea as a hard boss, at least. Hard Mode Ashnard is also kinda tricky because HE MOVES. And FE9's Black Knight is also tough (though the battle is more luck based than anything). The Black Fang bros were also hard to deal with, imo (the first one more than the last, since he moves). I still have no clue about how I'm supposed to take on Julius without the Book of Naga (though I only tried it on the Shin Patch), but this is optional. Ishtar is also tough. The thing about Petrine and Bertram is their super huge defense parameters. They also have super hax stats compared to other FE9 bosses, so that's why they came to mind immediately (theyre made even worse in LTC too so theres that). Ashnard in Hard Mode only takes Resolve Wrath Ike to trivialize him. Dheginsea can be Wyrmslayer'd to Oblivion or Laguz Royal pwned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomesticHausCat Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ashnard in Hard Mode only takes Resolve Wrath Ike to trivialize him. Dheginsea can be Wyrmslayer'd to Oblivion or Laguz Royal pwned. Just because they have one weakness that demolishes them, that doesn't make a boss easy. What if you gave wrath and resolve to other characters? Ashnard and BK are then insane. What if you used up all your wyrmslayers in previous chapters? What if you didn't bring any laguz royals because you like the characters you've been using better? Dheginsia is then tough. It's like saying Superman is easily killed, just throw hordes of kryptonite at him and you're good! Now this is how a few people played the games the first time, and found those dudes hard. Now I'll admit this logic can work against my opinion of thracia. If I had wasted all of my staves early on in the game I would have been fucked royally when the sleepers/silencers/berserkers came into play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 even if you dont put wrath resolve on ike beating ashnard and bk is really just a matter of hoping for aether and deghinseas pretty easy no matter what you do unless he gets lucky with ire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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