Accountability of One's Self.

[NICKT™]

So someone I have added on Facebook posted up a picture, I found her attire in the picture to be immensely distasteful so I commented on the photo saying this:

"There are no words for how skanky this looks."

I live in a very, very low standards town, unfortunately. The typical person here is one who most likely would not have passed even secondary education to the fullest**. To have fun here, the routine is just to get drunk and party, which barely ever ends in good, formal taste. Girls as young as twelve are hanging around the train station, smoking, drinking and being an all-around nuisance. Despite even being eighteen and classified as adults by law, many of these people still have very undeveloped minds, as such are very weak minded and have very poor taste in life styles and habits. The sad thing is, because it is so prevalent in just not my town, but essentially across the board it has very fast become the norm and if you attempt to have any self worth or dignity, be prepared to find yourself at the receiving end of a lot of hate and prejudice.

Either way, back to my previous point of conversation, this girl, she deleted the photo. To her credit, it was a valiant attempt at diffusing a situation, though it were never one, I'm sure her and her friends would have had a field day being bitches, but I digress. I paid it no mind from there on, she had seen my thought, whether she liked it or not was irrelevant, when you express something, anything, immediately you are allowing yourself to criticism. I'm not saying that it's okay just to go and call someone something that isn't true or at least have some thought and reasoning, so don't think that I'm giving everyone the golden ticket to be an unwarranted douche-canoe to civilization and society, but if someone is acting skanky, looks skanky and is generally being an all-around skank, then I personally feel that I'm not out of place making the comment.

However, to my dismay I scrolled through my feed and came across this later post by the same girl:

Wish people would leave me the hell alone and stop putting hate on me..

Honestly yeah sometimes I don't care what ya think of me...

But seriously keep your opinions to yourself for god sakes..

Im my own person I don't need thousands of people telling me who to be don't like me simple get out of my life.. but if your gonna be my mate then do so and let me be the person I am..!

Hate me all you want!!vvvvvv

If I may say as such, at what point are we as people going to start being accountable for how we live our lives? Why is it that people can do anything they want and we are not allowed in the slightest to call them out on it? Are we not becoming enablers at that point? Allowing society itself to just fall apart due to the code of conduct that we imposed. I find the funniest part in all this is that people who themselves would get upset at being criticized and proclaim things like, "If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all", would then in turn feel right as rain talk smack behind someone's back. (I can assure you, this girl, as matter of fact: majority of girls in my town, have a knack for talking a lot of shit behind the backs of others, though will often smile and be friendly when face to face.)

I feel that there is a point where you can't do whatever you want and then complain about the 'hate' that gets put on you, if this girl honestly didn't care what people thought then why is she uploading the photo? Why did she delete the picture instead of just my comment? Why did she continue on to then write a status about it? Because to her it's a big deal, and that's my point, she is offended. Though, this causes me to then ponder as to why she would be offended, if she doesn't care what I think then why be upset over it? So first off, her spiel about not caring comes down to no more than a mere ruse to perhaps just try and make herself feel better about it, but that's a different case in point and I'm not here to discuss people's psychological subconscious defenses.

So we can agree that it mattered to her, well, my next point then is as follows, if you are offended, then wouldn't that imply that the remark hit a nerve and is essentially in part true? Personally, if someone called me a skank, I'd laugh and would pay it no mind because I know(well, as far as,) that I am not one, so why would the remark offend me? Imagine going up to a white person and calling them a nigger, can you imagine just the sheer impossibility that the white person would be offended? Yet, to a black person I'm sure the word would have more of an effect, because it struck a chord. Take a second to allow your brain to register that these two scenarios express a point that if the point is unreasoned then you can pass it as nothing but if it offends you then it has ground.

Why is it that we're entering into a point in society where we can be whoever we want to be, do whatever we want to do and yet be free from all scrutiny? Why do we have this word of mouth conduct that we cannot belittle someone for doing something stupid? We're so needlessly holding everyone's hand that we're enabling the wrong behaviours to seep through the cracks and as a whole, the younger society suffers for it.

To just make this all seem entirely more ridiculous, her friend comments proclaiming that whoever said bad things was 'just jealous'. I've heard this argument many a time with the youth of today, you can barely comment at all that Justin Bieber sounds like a girl and has really shit music without a preteen stating that you're just jealous. It's akin to the whole, "If you don't like it then let's see you do better" kind of attitude and it's not productive at all. Do you, reader, really think that the person's comment here as any validity at all? That I'm actually jealous of this girl, who goes out clubbing at 12pm in a sleazy town on a Thursday night? No, I spent the night in playing a video game, I was having a blast playing it with my girlfriend.

I suppose, now looking in retrospect, I am kind of offended, which is as to why I'm posting this when according to my own logic. In all actuality, I am, I am offended, not by what was said in particular by either party, but because I feel slightly as if I am in the wrong for expressing an opinion that I had reasoned. When I look back through my own life, I've been a complete retard on many an occasion, even online and maybe even on this very site, as I'm sure someone would attest to that. I've been open to criticism on several fronts and looking back, I truly owe my life to that criticism.

I wouldn't be who I am now if it wasn't for the fact that when I did something stupid, someone told me I was stupid. If it wasn't for the fact someone called me pathetic, I'd still be doing pathetic things, and if I may say so, I might not be the greatest person, but I believe I'm the best person I can be, and I truly am grateful that I've come as far as that I have, I truly do hope that people who once knew me well will agree that I used to be nothing more than a pathetic kid, if only by nature, I do hope they can see me in a better light now, because I've taken those criticisms in and attempted to better myself because of them. I never felt that I was above that, I tried to ignore it in the past, but that's the thing, once it's there you really can't ignore it. You have to either accept it or hide from it, you can't ignore it, you run and hope it ignores you.

With that, I picture the youth of today, not all of them, for sure, but a lot of them I can say with confidence, that they do whatever they want, and when it comes to the time where they are due consequence, they run and hope that everything will ignore them. They don't want to face consequence, criticism, they just want to do whatever they want. It's why now we have shows like '16 and Pregnant', there's no accountability, if someone says something about you that you don't like, then it's on the person saying those things that the fault falls. Why is that so? If a girl just gave a blowjob to the entire football team at the back of the bus, is it not our prerogative to proclaim her a slut?

There's fair call in that you can't call someone whatever you want, but why is it that instead of hoping for logic and reason in what we say we instead just force society to smile and keep our opinions to ourselves? Why is it that we can't just tell someone we don't like them? And have it left at that? Why do we as people seek for everyone's approval and attention? I'd give anything for the capability to just tell someone that I didn't like them, and for them to just turn to me and smile, saying no more than an "ok" and leaving it at that. Sometimes you have to hurt people's feelings, it's not fun being sad, but should that really stop us from saying the things we should say to people?

You can't hide from opinions. Just because you don't like what the person says doesn't mean they shouldn't have said it, just because you don't like someone's opinion doesn't mean they can't have it or express it, stop being a pussy and hiding from it, I believe that society should be where the onus is on the person to leave if they're feeling offended, don't like it? Then fuck off.

Mm, sorry for the long read, just had a lot on my mind.

(**I live in Australia, so here's the rundown of our education system, you start at Prep and then Grade 1 through 6, this is Primary School. From then on, you do Year 7 through 10, from that point you can do VCE which is the level more suited for pen-pushing kind of jobs, where as VCAL is what you'll find for more hands on education, for jobs like plumbing, building and cooking. Both VCE and VCAL are Year 11 and Year 12, so that's it. The typical point of which people would drop out is at the end of Year 10, meaning that these people won't have finished Secondary Educations, leading to them having to work a McDonalds level jobs for the rest of their life.)

[Agro]

you must be from the northern suburbs

[Rehab]

What exactly was it you disliked about the way she was dressed, and why does it matter?

[deleted35362]

why did you add her as a friend? lol

[Redwall]

Accountability matters.

The problem is that dressing "like a skank" isn't immoral per se. If she has any real moral problems, then she should work to rectify those, and accept criticism accordingly. It sounds like she simply doesn't appreciate the criticism of her dress, while still believing that how she dresses is fine.

[NICKT™]

you must be from the northern suburbs

Nah, part of the Peninsula or whatever it's called.

She was wearing short shorts and sleeveless shirt that was cropped just below her breasts.

Mind you, we're just out of Winter and I the town sits right on the edge of the water, so we do get cold winds, so at that late of night to be wearing something like that? You can't claim you want to be comfortable or had nothing else, she was definitely doing it to show off or advertise herself or whatever.

It doesn't really matter, it's just it was there. I'm the kind of person who comments on almost everything that pops up on my feed. Mind you, it's not all criticism like this, I just like interacting with people.

As for why I have her added, she actually added me and I accept the request because I've known her for around five years. I don't really consider myself to have any friends, if I have any I'm not sure how I'd tell or how I'd even qualify people to be my friend, but she considers me hers I guess.

[Chiki]

I don't think dressing like a slut is wrong, but I also think you have the right to speak your mind and tell her the truth.

I also think that being a slut is wrong and stupid due to spreading STDs and unwanted pregnancies and such, all for the sake of trivial pleasure.

[Nobody]

Sorry, my post might sound a bit too rash, but it's HER life, she can dress however she wants and post whichever picture she likes on her facebook. If you don't like it you can just delete her, or hide her from your news feed.

You're the one who first offended her, why do you feel offended? It doesn't make any sense.

BTW, people have always said: "the youth nowadays is doomed". Yet, the human race has survived for over 30000 years. By your post, it also sounds like you're not exactly close to her. If someone should "teach" her or tell her she acts wrong, it should be someone with whom she has some affinity, not some acquaintance whose life won't be changed by the way she acts.

You complain about people from your city having prejudice against you because you're educated and nice, yet your post is full of prejudice against them. That's a bit hypocrite.

Tl;dr: The way she acts or dresses is none of your business and you shouldn't worry about it.

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Just read your other post. So she was basically dressing like it was summer on a winter day? Today it was 10 degrees Celsius here and I dressed with shorts and sleeveless shirts, because i felt like it! some people are more resistant to cold weather than others.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Nobody

[Ansem]

Personally I think she should have shrugged her comment off, unless there were more people calling her a skank which I highly doubt (people are stupid and girls with no clothing on are considered "beautiful" so I would imagine more "ur beatiful" comments over your comment) she shouldnt have taken her photo down. If the latter is the case, its clear she is merely an attentionwhore. The whole "fuck what everyone else says I'm going to do what I want to do" is cliche, and like most cliches, is fucking stupid.

So basically, you shouldnt be offended over something as small as that. You seem like a decent person, and there is no reason to stoop to her level (which'd probably be on your knees HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE)

Edited September 6, 2013 by Bacteriophage

[Esau of Isaac]

If I were hot as fuck instead of being covered in hair I would wear little clothing as well to show of my bodaliciousness.

In all seriousness, tangentially related, the repressed behavior of many Western and I suppose most worldwide societies as well regarding anything sex-related is dissatisfactory to me. Everyone should have the free speech to say what is on their mind, and in that regard I would not lay blame on anyone calling someone dressing provocatively a skank. People judge others for the most minor of physical cues or lack thereof, so it's not like someone's wardrobe should be above criticism. I just personally wish people didn't find dressing provocatively instantly disgusting and worthy of hate. Physical beauty is nice, in my eyes if a woman wants to show off what she's got then I'm all for it.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Esau of Isaac

[Phoenix Wright]

I don't find extremely revealing clothing tactful, but I'm not gonna call anyone out on it. It's their own business.

Also, people that post things like, "imma do whatever i damn well please," or things similar are usually taken off of my wall updates permanently or are unfriended (if I don't like the person at all this is what's done). So, I pretty much never run into this problem anymore. I suggest you do the same if it bothers you so much.

On a broader note, what Esau said, basically.

[Randa]

Sorry, I don't want to sound like too rash, but it's HER life, she can dress however she wants and post whichever picture she likes on her facebook. If you don't like it you can just delete her, or hide her from your news feed.

And to be honest, if you're so bothered by the picture that you feel the need to complain direct there, it DOES sound like you're jealous.

You're the one who first offended her, why do you feel offended? It doesn't make any sense.

And, BTW, people have always said: "the youth nowadays is doomed". Yet, the human race has survived for over 30000 years. By your post, it also sounds like you're not exactly close to her. If someone should "teach" her or tell her she acts wrong, it should be someone with whom she has some affinity, not some acquaintance whose life won't be changed by the way she acts.

Tl;dr: The way she acts or dresses is none of your business and you shouldn't worry about it.

--------

Just read your other post. So she was basically dressing like it was summer on winter? Today it was 10 degrees Celsius here and I dressed with shorts and sleeveless shirts, because i felt like it! some people are more resistant to cold weather than others.

I'd just like a couple quick things about the bolded statement. The human has existed for between 50,000-200,000 years dependant on your perspective. Advanced civilization originally appeared about 5,000 years ago. And technically speaking the youth is doomed. Many great empire and kingdoms and democracies have fallen because of the rash nature of the youth. If we consider the Roman Empire it feel due to the greed and corruption and over all immoral nature of the people at the time. The part that can make a society great is the compilation of hundreds to millions of people all trying to better the nation. This requires people who actually can think for themselves and accept criticism for their betterment. And at this rate the youth will be doomed. Will it be our generation maybe, probably not. But if we continue to lower our moral standards then the next generation will be even worse and eventually society may very well collapse.

Just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree.

[Bluedoom]

a) I personally think one who spends time complaining too much has way too many flaws in them.

I'm pretty sure our parents and grandparents think the younger generation is going downhill. I talk to my classmates, and, guess what, they think the juniors (lol and I mean by a year, 2 years, lolol) are worse than our batch. I mean, wtf? The hypocrisy is amusing to say the least. Guess when people get older, their ego grows as well. Not sure where people get the idea that generations have certain qualities in them/ get stereotyped.

b) If you have a problem with her, remove her. Really, if you don't like her remove her. Or even better, if you don't like most of your friends on fb, never use fb.

[Rehab]

I'd just like a couple quick things about the bolded statement. The human has existed for between 50,000-200,000 years dependant on your perspective. Advanced civilization originally appeared about 5,000 years ago. And technically speaking the youth is doomed. Many great empire and kingdoms and democracies have fallen because of the rash nature of the youth. If we consider the Roman Empire it feel due to the greed and corruption and over all immoral nature of the people at the time. The part that can make a society great is the compilation of hundreds to millions of people all trying to better the nation. This requires people who actually can think for themselves and accept criticism for their betterment. And at this rate the youth will be doomed. Will it be our generation maybe, probably not. But if we continue to lower our moral standards then the next generation will be even worse and eventually society may very well collapse.

Just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree.

As opposed to, what, over-expansion, crumbling infrastructure, poor foreign relations, and the rising power of however many other regional powers, like the Franks, Goths, Vandals, and Huns?

[eclipse]

I don't think dressing like a slut is wrong, but I also think you have the right to speak your mind and tell her the truth.

Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from the consequences of your speech. If you feel it's so important to be truthful, be prepared for the other person's reaction. Depending on how you express yourself, it may NOT be pleasant, and may come back to bite you. Man up and take responsibility (this includes not whining when people get negative), or keep your views to yourself.

Now, back to the topic at hand. . .both sides share a responsibility for this - you for making that comment, and her reaction to it (which I'll get to in a bit). There's nothing stopping you from speaking your mind, but you now have to live with the consequences of your actions. In this case, you hurt someone's feelings over a selfie. If you are willing to accept this responsibility, march on - the ball's now in her court. If not, I suggest apologizing to her, and watching your mouth from here on out - just because you CAN say it doesn't mean that you SHOULD say it. I remember you mentioned that your life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. . .imagine if someone went out of their way to say things that hit your unhappy triggers.

Her reaction could be anything from silent to a loud drama-fest. According to your account of the events, the photo came down first, then the post appeared. Depending on how much time passed between the two events, I'm inclined to think that she told her friends about it, and they suggested that she put up that post. This tells me that she's not the most secure about herself, and that you may have pissed off her friends, too. Granted, she could've taken that better, but I think it could've ended up MUCH worse. . .or maybe this isn't the end. We'll see. Unfortunately, all I have is your account of the events (and your not-too-kind opinions of these girls), so I can't really draw much else about her.

My take on this, as a woman, is that you shouldn't have said that, on the basis that it offers nothing constructive. Women are more appearance-based than men (source: the composition of clothing stores in the mall I just ate dinner at), which means that someone offering a point-blank, uninvited criticism is extremely threatening. If you were well and truly distressed about her attire, I suggest finding a more neutral way to address the photo. First impressions are important, and if she feels she can trust you, she's more likely to listen to your advice.

So, if you feel that your definition of honesty trumps other people's feelings, then feel free to ignore me. However, you WILL get people angry with you, simply because you didn't bother to ask yourself how you're impacting them. There's a difference between being honest and being an honest-to-goodness ass, and it's empathy. What you want to be is up to you - all I ask is that you accept the consequences, no matter what path you choose.

[mewyeon]

Now, back to the topic at hand. . .both sides share a responsibility for this - you for making that comment, and her reaction to it (which I'll get to in a bit). There's nothing stopping you from speaking your mind, but you now have to live with the consequences of your actions. In this case, you hurt someone's feelings over a selfie. If you are willing to accept this responsibility, march on - the ball's now in her court. If not, I suggest apologizing to her, and watching your mouth from here on out - just because you CAN say it doesn't mean that you SHOULD say it.

This tells me that she's not the most secure about herself, and that you may have pissed off her friends, too.

However, you WILL get people angry with you, simply because you didn't bother to ask yourself how you're impacting them. There's a difference between being honest and being an honest-to-goodness ass, and it's empathy. What you want to be is up to you - all I ask is that you accept the consequences, no matter what path you choose.

Really agree with the boldest statements here. However, I also have an issue of being judgmental of this particular type of girl, so I can sympathize with OP greatly. Like...I REALLY CAN. Don't get me started. Anyway, I wouldn't have chosen to publicly portray my sentiment, and like eclipse said, I think it would've been a better idea to bring it up a different way in a one-on-one kind of thing. I think it would've been more considerate of this girl and might help her actually rethink her actions in a meaningful way.

Just read your other post. So she was basically dressing like it was summer on a winter day? Today it was 10 degrees Celsius here and I dressed with shorts and sleeveless shirts, because i felt like it! some people are more resistant to cold weather than others.

...I can understand wearing that sort of stuff in the house if you've got the heater on. But I can't justify wearing a cropped top like the one OP described out in public either way.

The whole "fuck what everyone else says I'm going to do what I want to do" is cliche, and like most cliches, is fucking stupid.

there is no reason to stoop to her level (which'd probably be on your knees HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE)

True. If she's all like 'i don't care what other people think' I don't know why she'd delete the photo.

[NICKT™]

Sorry, my post might sound a bit too rash, but it's HER life, she can dress however she wants and post whichever picture she likes on her facebook. If you don't like it you can just delete her, or hide her from your news feed.

You're the one who first offended her, why do you feel offended? It doesn't make any sense.

BTW, people have always said: "the youth nowadays is doomed". Yet, the human race has survived for over 30000 years. By your post, it also sounds like you're not exactly close to her. If someone should "teach" her or tell her she acts wrong, it should be someone with whom she has some affinity, not some acquaintance whose life won't be changed by the way she acts.

You complain about people from your city having prejudice against you because you're educated and nice, yet your post is full of prejudice against them. That's a bit hypocrite.

Tl;dr: The way she acts or dresses is none of your business and you shouldn't worry about it.

Just read your other post. So she was basically dressing like it was summer on a winter day? Today it was 10 degrees Celsius here and I dressed with shorts and sleeveless shirts, because i felt like it! some people are more resistant to cold weather than others.

I was offended by how other people can express themselves in any way they want and yet when they meet any backlash they instantly go into whine mode.
Also, I couldn't care less if people carried prejudice against anyone, it's just that a lot of the time when directed at me it was just insanely unjustifiable. People didn't like me and they felt that was a good enough reason to call me whatever they wanted, I went through a year of school with everything thinking I was a homosexual, with absolutely no provocation, it was other people who would steal my workbooks when I went to the bathroom during class and would draw penises all over the pages. Stupid kiddy shit like that, I don't like. People have criticized me over the years and I've never had a bad way about it, it's helped my development a lot.

And it was like, as minimal as you could get without it being the same size as her undergarments, I assume, so for her to be wearing that when even I wouldn't be that stupid, and I love the Winter.

Personally I think she should have shrugged her comment off, unless there were more people calling her a skank which I highly doubt (people are stupid and girls with no clothing on are considered "beautiful" so I would imagine more "ur beatiful" comments over your comment) she shouldnt have taken her photo down. If the latter is the case, its clear she is merely an attentionwhore. The whole "fuck what everyone else says I'm going to do what I want to do" is cliche, and like most cliches, is fucking stupid.

So basically, you shouldnt be offended over something as small as that. You seem like a decent person, and there is no reason to stoop to her level (which'd probably be on your knees HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE)

It was literally a span of 10, maybe 15 minutes that all of this happened over. It's not just this though either, a few months back, for almost half a year she's been complaining about the things people say about her, when I moved back into the state and caught up with people I used to know, she spent an hour complaining about how people always say shit about her, and then a day later she's going on about how she's bathing with a chick and then posts a photo of them kissing when she was just moments before complaining about a guy in her life. She's an attention seeker.

If I were hot as fuck instead of being covered in hair I would wear little clothing as well to show of my bodaliciousness.

In all seriousness, tangentially related, the repressed behavior of many Western and I suppose most worldwide societies as well regarding anything sex-related is dissatisfactory to me. Everyone should have the free speech to say what is on their mind, and in that regard I would not lay blame on anyone calling someone dressing provocatively a skank. People judge others for the most minor of physical cues or lack thereof, so it's not like someone's wardrobe should be above criticism. I just personally wish people didn't find dressing provocatively instantly disgusting and worthy of hate. Physical beauty is nice, in my eyes if a woman wants to show off what she's got then I'm all for it.

It's not that I don't mind people expressing themselves, it's just that I find it truly appalling that people feel they've got nothing better to show to the world than their bodies. I don't buy into the whole idea that if someone has a body that they should show it off, if that's the case then why don't they walk around naked? It's essentially the same thing, it's a tease, an advertisement, showing what you've got by putting a lure out.
'Sides, it's not just what she was wearing, it's also where you are. If you went to a business meeting wearing flip-flops, you'd be laughed at in most situations, it's unprofessional. The situation does have a play in to how people interprete and approach what you're wearing. A person wearing a suit at a business would be fine, at a death metal concert? A few weird looks and giggles, for sure. Wearing minimal clothing on a hot day at the beach? I don't like it, personally, but it's at least appropriate according to the situation, wearing next to nothing whilst going to a pub/club nearing midnight on a Thursday night? Yeah, just screams skank.

I don't find extremely revealing clothing tactful, but I'm not gonna call anyone out on it. It's their own business.

Also, people that post things like, "imma do whatever i damn well please," or things similar are usually taken off of my wall updates permanently or are unfriended (if I don't like the person at all this is what's done). So, I pretty much never run into this problem anymore. I suggest you do the same if it bothers you so much.

On a broader note, what Esau said, basically.

Point made. I deleted her from my Facebook because she uploaded more things earlier tonight that just really made me bow my head in pity.

a) I personally think one who spends time complaining too much has way too many flaws in them.

I'm pretty sure our parents and grandparents think the younger generation is going downhill. I talk to my classmates, and, guess what, they think the juniors (lol and I mean by a year, 2 years, lolol) are worse than our batch. I mean, wtf? The hypocrisy is amusing to say the least. Guess when people get older, their ego grows as well. Not sure where people get the idea that generations have certain qualities in them/ get stereotyped.

b) If you have a problem with her, remove her. Really, if you don't like her remove her. Or even better, if you don't like most of your friends on fb, never use fb.

So you honestly see no qualm with society's acceptance of such things like '16 and Pregnant'? This will slowly become the norm. We're being forced to be tolerant of behaviour that is essentially just animalistic. Party all night, get drunk and fuck bitches, that's essentially how a lot of teenage males are thinking these days, yeah, youth might not be all that bad these days, only a little worse than how it used to or whatever, but over time, a little bit each generation will add up. Pray tell that if I live to see a futuristic age, that it's something the human race can be proud off.

I personally wouldn't have an FB, it's just that it's the only way to keep in touch with my girlfriend due to the fact I don't have a phone.

Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from the consequences of your speech. If you feel it's so important to be truthful, be prepared for the other person's reaction. Depending on how you express yourself, it may NOT be pleasant, and may come back to bite you. Man up and take responsibility (this includes not whining when people get negative), or keep your views to yourself.

I'm not against a response, I like having a healthy argument once in a while, I like having to actually think instead of just being like a zombie all day. My problem rests however with her attitude more than what she did.
She didn't even address me directly with her remark, she instead didn't direct it at anyone and left it open ended, for all I know, that status may not have been about me at all. It's like my nan who posted on my mom's memorial FB page, saying that she was the only one who cared about my mom cause none of us but her visited the grave, mind you she died over 3 years ago, I messaged her saying that just because we didn't devote our lives to the memory that we didn't care about it, she then said that it wasn't meant for my brothers and I but rather for my grandfather. It's like, why not just tell him that directly instead of being a pussy about it?

Now, back to the topic at hand. . .both sides share a responsibility for this - you for making that comment, and her reaction to it (which I'll get to in a bit). There's nothing stopping you from speaking your mind, but you now have to live with the consequences of your actions. In this case, you hurt someone's feelings over a selfie. If you are willing to accept this responsibility, march on - the ball's now in her court. If not, I suggest apologizing to her, and watching your mouth from here on out - just because you CAN say it doesn't mean that you SHOULD say it. I remember you mentioned that your life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. . .imagine if someone went out of their way to say things that hit your unhappy triggers.

Hey, I'm not saying that I don't share a responsibility in this, I accept that I was on the provoking end. I suppose I'm a lot more used to having bad things said about me to the point where it won't get to me as much, I'll approach things more trying to understand it on a reasoning and logical path rather than how it effects me emotionally. The reason I tend to have a bit of a loose lip is because I don't filter my thoughts, I say what I think and feel. I hear the idea that you should only say nice things to people and I just think, why can't I be a critic? So that's what I do. It's not to say that I'm just an irrational jerk to people, by far I hope I'm nothing like that, I may be a bit rough, a bit jaded and cold in my approach, though my front is always that people are to take away the words of others and use it to better themselves.

Mm, well, if you haven't figured already, I spent a lot of my life being bullied, so I've gone a long time with a lot of people trying to push my buttons, even my brothers and parents. For example, my mom all the time used to say I was just like my father, who would physically abuse her and I, raped her once and would just do whatever he could to make our lives hell, so when she said that it really struck me hard. I never acted upon it, all of my emotion I directed inward. After she died, about a week or so, someone I had never even met, someone I didn't know at all commented on my FB, making fun of me cause I didn't have a mom anymore. I laughed, and in turn told him that if he wanted to act like a baby he should go and suck on his mom's tits. (The funny thing is, he actually threatened to burn my house down in retaliation to my comment, weird how people feel that other people can't do what they do, right?) Other than that one comment, I said nothing, I did nothing, I left it. It's the internet, you can just walk away from it, it was an unprovoked, pointless and empty comment from a prick.

Though, on the turn to that, I was in a relationship for two years with this one girl, who whenever we argued would always say the same thing my mom did, after I had confided in her how I didn't like it. I would always try to ignore it but I lived with her and there wasn't much I could go. I used to just put on my headphones and listen to music but she'd just come up and slap them off me, constantly. After a year and a half of this, her hitting me and just being controlling, I just snapped and slapped her hard across the face. The relationship never really picked back up and I moved back to my home state because of that. So I know what it's like to have someone push your buttons, but when you can just walk away or turn your computer off if it gets to be too much? Seems silly, in my opinion.

Her reaction could be anything from silent to a loud drama-fest. According to your account of the events, the photo came down first, then the post appeared. Depending on how much time passed between the two events, I'm inclined to think that she told her friends about it, and they suggested that she put up that post. This tells me that she's not the most secure about herself, and that you may have pissed off her friends, too. Granted, she could've taken that better, but I think it could've ended up MUCH worse. . .or maybe this isn't the end. We'll see. Unfortunately, all I have is your account of the events (and your not-too-kind opinions of these girls), so I can't really draw much else about her.

Due to the time that the posts occurred, I'm doubtful anything happened between her and anyone else, though I won't dismiss it. Either way, she's had issues with a lot of people in the past, even earlier today she was going on about how a girl choked her, her friends then all chimed in how she should "Bash the c*nt", she'll complain one minute and then next minute be happy. I've offered to be there if she needed someone to talk to but she never took me up on that, would just complain whenever I ran into her about all the crap going on in her life, yet she'd never do anything about it. Like, she said to me that her ex kept contacting her to hook up for 'break-up sex', when he called whilst I was there I answered her phone and told him to leave her alone, she thanked me for that, though the next day I find out she met up with it and they actually had sex, she was complaining about how she regretted it. It's like, at which point do you have to get to before you accept that you're fucking up and you need to do something about it?

My take on this, as a woman, is that you shouldn't have said that, on the basis that it offers nothing constructive. Women are more appearance-based than men (source: the composition of clothing stores in the mall I just ate dinner at), which means that someone offering a point-blank, uninvited criticism is extremely threatening. If you were well and truly distressed about her attire, I suggest finding a more neutral way to address the photo. First impressions are important, and if she feels she can trust you, she's more likely to listen to your advice.

She said I was a good friend, I've spoken to her on several occasions but it seriously just goes in one ear and out the other. I suppose that in hindsight, there could have been better ways to approach the situation, though at that point I really didn't care to factor that into my mind due to that she was like this so often, yet would complain about the shit that happens to her.

So, if you feel that your definition of honesty trumps other people's feelings, then feel free to ignore me. However, you WILL get people angry with you, simply because you didn't bother to ask yourself how you're impacting them. There's a difference between being honest and being an honest-to-goodness ass, and it's empathy. What you want to be is up to you - all I ask is that you accept the consequences, no matter what path you choose.

I've never been against having people been angry at me. I still remember one time I was arguing with someone on this very forum, in one topic we were at each others throats, yet the reason I can remember this is that in a separate topic, I was laughing and making jokes with the same guy. Hm, think his name was Seph or something, not really sure anymore.

My point being is just that, I tend to disconnect myself from my emotions a lot when I deal with people, so you can really interact with me twice within a short period of time and have completely different results based on the situation and circumstances. I shall accept all consequences, I have done so all my life, it's why I don't complain about my crappy life like I used to, a lot of my life was of my own choices, all the way down to the bullying, it was of my own actions, that much I will not deny. Honesty should never be smeared by someone's feelings, whether it be in delivery or interpretation.

Really agree with the boldest statements here. However, I also have an issue of being judgmental of this particular type of girl, so I can sympathize with OP greatly. Like...I REALLY CAN. Don't get me started. Anyway, I wouldn't have chosen to publicly portray my sentiment, and like eclipse said, I think it would've been a better idea to bring it up a different way in a one-on-one kind of thing. I think it would've been more considerate of this girl and might help her actually rethink her actions in a meaningful way.

Like I said earlier in this post, she repeats certain behavior and then will complain about events that occur based upon her behavior. I can accept people hating me for having my opinions, people don't like me because I have a certain way of life, I can live with that. Whatever problems occur due to the choices I make, I don't complain about, I live with them. That's probably the reason why this irks me more than it should, it's because she's repeating her actions and hoping for different results every time.

True. If she's all like 'i don't care what other people think' I don't know why she'd delete the photo.

I know right?

[Bluedoom]

So you honestly see no qualm with society's acceptance of such things like '16 and Pregnant'? This will slowly become the norm. We're being forced to be tolerant of behaviour that is essentially just animalistic. Party all night, get drunk and fuck bitches, that's essentially how a lot of teenage males are thinking these days, yeah, youth might not be all that bad these days, only a little worse than how it used to or whatever, but over time, a little bit each generation will add up. Pray tell that if I live to see a futuristic age, that it's something the human race can be proud off.

I personally wouldn't have an FB, it's just that it's the only way to keep in touch with my girlfriend due to the fact I don't have a phone.

First off I live in a country where '16 and pregnant' isn't seen as normal, but even if it is, the thing is , as long as I'm not the one taking part in this 'animalistic behaviour' I shouldn't care so much about it. That's how a lot of teenagers might be but that doesn't mean there aren't any who wouldn't get into such things. Like, if people are willing to risk and pay for the consequences, why not?

Hmm, maybe you should use skype instead. Its just easier to avoid the attention-seeking stuff you see on fb. :3

[eclipse]

For the sake of my temper/sanity, I'm only going to respond to the stuff that was addressed to me. Otherwise, I'd go into Unhappy Teacher mode, which is bad because I don't like being unhappy, and I'm technically not a teacher.

I'm not against a response, I like having a healthy argument once in a while, I like having to actually think instead of just being like a zombie all day. My problem rests however with her attitude more than what she did.

She didn't even address me directly with her remark, she instead didn't direct it at anyone and left it open ended, for all I know, that status may not have been about me at all. It's like my nan who posted on my mom's memorial FB page, saying that she was the only one who cared about my mom cause none of us but her visited the grave, mind you she died over 3 years ago, I messaged her saying that just because we didn't devote our lives to the memory that we didn't care about it, she then said that it wasn't meant for my brothers and I but rather for my grandfather. It's like, why not just tell him that directly instead of being a pussy about it?

1. Depending on what you posted, you're not going to get an argument. Instead, you'll get an insult. This, too is part of taking responsibility, because you felt that opening your mouth was worth whatever repercussions would ensue.

2. Her attitude? If you told her she wore nice clothes, and she insulted you, I'd believe you. You said something unpleasant and unprovoked about her appearance, and she responded in a way that I didn't think was particularly bizarre. Some people aren't the confrontational type; welcome to humanity.

3. Maybe your mother did, and your grandfather didn't take the hint, and this was her way of publicly humiliating him. I don't agree with that method, but I'm not your mother.

Hey, I'm not saying that I don't share a responsibility in this, I accept that I was on the provoking end. I suppose I'm a lot more used to having bad things said about me to the point where it won't get to me as much, I'll approach things more trying to understand it on a reasoning and logical path rather than how it effects me emotionally. The reason I tend to have a bit of a loose lip is because I don't filter my thoughts, I say what I think and feel. I hear the idea that you should only say nice things to people and I just think, why can't I be a critic? So that's what I do. It's not to say that I'm just an irrational jerk to people, by far I hope I'm nothing like that, I may be a bit rough, a bit jaded and cold in my approach, though my front is always that people are to take away the words of others and use it to better themselves.

We judge ourselves by intent and others by their actions. There's ways of diplomatically breaching sensitive subjects to people, and they're more likely to listen to that than unwarranted criticism. Are you interested in helping them or boosting your own ego?

Mm, well, if you haven't figured already, I spent a lot of my life being bullied, so I've gone a long time with a lot of people trying to push my buttons, even my brothers and parents. For example, my mom all the time used to say I was just like my father, who would physically abuse her and I, raped her once and would just do whatever he could to make our lives hell, so when she said that it really struck me hard. I never acted upon it, all of my emotion I directed inward. After she died, about a week or so, someone I had never even met, someone I didn't know at all commented on my FB, making fun of me cause I didn't have a mom anymore. I laughed, and in turn told him that if he wanted to act like a baby he should go and suck on his mom's tits. (The funny thing is, he actually threatened to burn my house down in retaliation to my comment, weird how people feel that other people can't do what they do, right?) Other than that one comment, I said nothing, I did nothing, I left it. It's the internet, you can just walk away from it, it was an unprovoked, pointless and empty comment from a prick.

Okay, you were bullied. That sucked, right? Those emotions stay with you. . .so, do you want anyone else to feel like they're in your position, ever? You'll have to find the answer to that on your own. . .in the meantime, here's mine:

My elementary years were spent mostly in the library and computer room. The other kids didn't understand me, and I felt the same way about them. I remember how my classmates treated me, and I didn't like it. Thus, I do my best NOT to replicate what my classmates did. I figured that if I used my experiences as an excuse to treat other people like that, then I was no better than them.

Though, on the turn to that, I was in a relationship for two years with this one girl, who whenever we argued would always say the same thing my mom did, after I had confided in her how I didn't like it. I would always try to ignore it but I lived with her and there wasn't much I could go. I used to just put on my headphones and listen to music but she'd just come up and slap them off me, constantly. After a year and a half of this, her hitting me and just being controlling, I just snapped and slapped her hard across the face. The relationship never really picked back up and I moved back to my home state because of that. So I know what it's like to have someone push your buttons, but when you can just walk away or turn your computer off if it gets to be too much? Seems silly, in my opinion.

It's not about walking away and "turning off a computer", it's the fact that someone made that kind of comment in the first place. You've been in that place before (as your former girlfriend ignored your feelings and did what she wanted). . .do you think it's worth being honest, if they'll be just as badly hurt as you were when your feelings were ignored?

Due to the time that the posts occurred, I'm doubtful anything happened between her and anyone else, though I won't dismiss it. Either way, she's had issues with a lot of people in the past, even earlier today she was going on about how a girl choked her, her friends then all chimed in how she should "Bash the c*nt", she'll complain one minute and then next minute be happy. I've offered to be there if she needed someone to talk to but she never took me up on that, would just complain whenever I ran into her about all the crap going on in her life, yet she'd never do anything about it. Like, she said to me that her ex kept contacting her to hook up for 'break-up sex', when he called whilst I was there I answered her phone and told him to leave her alone, she thanked me for that, though the next day I find out she met up with it and they actually had sex, she was complaining about how she regretted it. It's like, at which point do you have to get to before you accept that you're fucking up and you need to do something about it?

That's her call to make, not yours. You have absolute control over your own life, and that's it. Whether she changes is up to her, BUT IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO FORCE THAT CHANGE. (the exception to this is if she's actively suicidal/doing something really illegal that's a serious danger to herself and/or others)

She said I was a good friend, I've spoken to her on several occasions but it seriously just goes in one ear and out the other. I suppose that in hindsight, there could have been better ways to approach the situation, though at that point I really didn't care to factor that into my mind due to that she was like this so often, yet would complain about the shit that happens to her.

Again, this is out of your control.

I've never been against having people been angry at me. I still remember one time I was arguing with someone on this very forum, in one topic we were at each others throats, yet the reason I can remember this is that in a separate topic, I was laughing and making jokes with the same guy. Hm, think his name was Seph or something, not really sure anymore.

My point being is just that, I tend to disconnect myself from my emotions a lot when I deal with people, so you can really interact with me twice within a short period of time and have completely different results based on the situation and circumstances. I shall accept all consequences, I have done so all my life, it's why I don't complain about my crappy life like I used to, a lot of my life was of my own choices, all the way down to the bullying, it was of my own actions, that much I will not deny. Honesty should never be smeared by someone's feelings, whether it be in delivery or interpretation.

Seph's still around.

Honesty is also about "is this a good fucking idea right now?" Let's take the following phrase:

"That's one less worry in your life!"

If you said that to someone who just found out that they've kicked cancer's ass, it would probably be seen in a positive light. If you said that to a mother who just delivered a stillborn baby (which she and the father were eagerly expecting), it would be seen in a negative light. In the latter case, it may be your honest opinion, but it fails to take into account the mother's feelings. You've been in situations where people's words hurt you. Do you want others to feel like how you did in your darker times, even if it is your honest opinion?

If you truly have other people's best intentions at heart, then I KNOW you'll find a way to get your honest opinion across, without hurting them. If not, then all I can do is wish you luck in the future.

[Blademaster!]

Couldn't you just play this off as a joke? I don't know what kind of person this girl is, or the full extent of the relationship you have with, but "www" is kinda like saying "lol" in Japanese internet slang. I don't know why someone would add that at the end of a sentence or phrase otherwise.

[peener weener]

*tips fedora* :^)

[Original Alear]

If we consider the Roman Empire it feel due to the greed and corruption and over all immoral nature of the people at the time.

I'm pretty sure the Roman Empire was what we'd consider greedy, corrupt and immoral for nearly all of it's existence based on what I've read about it in A History of Private Life: Chapter One (that's the name of the source I remember). There was slavery, crowds who watched men fight to the death (a particular highlight of slavery), men got into office by currying favor with other powerful people, and there are probably a bunch of things I'm missing that went on for most of the duration of the empire. However, if I'm not wrong the Empire existed for a longer span of time than the US has so far (I'm really too lazy to go check that one out, so sorry). Pretty sure it was mostly due to military and diplomacy. See what Rehab said.

If it matters though, I'm fairly sure your opinion is shared by others with better credentials than mine.

Nickt, as far as I'm concerned your comment was rude, regardless of how seriously you meant it, and you were in the wrong (a very minor wrong though) even if her mode of dress was rude. It's not like I've never been rude on here so I don't think poorly of you, I just think you should rethink your defensiveness over this interaction. There's no point in causing trouble, and I don't think that getting someone angry necessarily means you've struck a nerve. Some people are just self-righteous.

Party all night, get drunk and fuck bitches, that's essentially how a lot of teenage males are thinking these days, yeah, youth might not be all that bad these days, only a little worse than how it used to or whatever, but over time, a little bit each generation will add up.

I get the feeling that young guys were interested in having sex with younger women in the olden days too. Hell, I think even old guys were.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Static Shock

[BK-201]

Speaking of accountability, it seems you were far more "bitchy" that these girls who would have had "a field day being bitches". You have no obligation to view the image and inserting a negative opinion in such a way puts you in the wrong. While making a Facebook post to follow up regarding people being rude was a passive aggressive act, I'm sure most observers would put you at fault.

You're accountable for entering into this scenario. While the way she lives her life might not be desirable to you, that doesn't mean her lifestyle is necessarily wrong unless she reaches some point where she hurts others, at least for now that's the line I'll draw in terms of acceptable behavior but that's subject to modification based on context. No matter how distasteful you perceive her lifestyle to be, making a rude comment is something you're accountable for.

While you criticize the girl for her potential field day of bitchiness, you aren't putting yourself at account for your own actions and I think while it's easy to criticize others for their improper behavior (perceived or otherwise), we neglect to look at ourselves and what we do negatively. It's quite ironic that while you write off the girl as someone pretentious and weak based off her claims to not care, you make this giant post as if you're much better when you're the one publicly insulting others and then making a huge post on SF.

So we can agree that it mattered to her, well, my next point then is as follows, if you are offended, then wouldn't that imply that the remark hit a nerve and is essentially in part true? Personally, if someone called me a skank, I'd laugh and would pay it no mind because I know(well, as far as,) that I am not one, so why would the remark offend me? Imagine going up to a white person and calling them a nigger, can you imagine just the sheer impossibility that the white person would be offended? Yet, to a black person I'm sure the word would have more of an effect, because it struck a chord. Take a second to allow your brain to register that these two scenarios express a point that if the point is unreasoned then you can pass it as nothing but if it offends you then it has ground.

The problem with your analogy is you are using objective labels that people can clearly eliminate themselves from, what if I called you stupid or whatever in a serious tone? Using some parameter you can't objectively evaluate or have no good way of evaluating, you can make insults that people won't always be capable of laughing off.

Why is it that we're entering into a point in society where we can be whoever we want to be, do whatever we want to do and yet be free from all scrutiny? Why do we have this word of mouth conduct that we cannot belittle someone for doing something stupid? We're so needlessly holding everyone's hand that we're enabling the wrong behaviours to seep through the cracks and as a whole, the younger society suffers for it.

Do I have the right to belittle you for going to such lengths to defend a rude comment? Probably not, it'd be a breach of acceptable social conduct, while we can get away with the occasional comment like that, it doesn't justify it as socially acceptable. It just means it's not so out of line you will get criticized heavily for it.

To just make this all seem entirely more ridiculous, her friend comments proclaiming that whoever said bad things was 'just jealous'. I've heard this argument many a time with the youth of today, you can barely comment at all that Justin Bieber sounds like a girl and has really shit music without a preteen stating that you're just jealous. It's akin to the whole, "If you don't like it then let's see you do better" kind of attitude and it's not productive at all. Do you, reader, really think that the person's comment here as any validity at all? That I'm actually jealous of this girl, who goes out clubbing at 12pm in a sleazy town on a Thursday night? No, I spent the night in playing a video game, I was having a blast playing it with my girlfriend.

Why do you have some compulsive need to dictate what behavior is acceptable and what isn't acceptable? Just because it's fun to jump on the Justin Beiber hate train doesn't mean today's youth is screwed up simply because of their musical preferences. I mean look back at every single generation, there's always been some behavior that was disproved of that would become acceptable later. You're trying to dictate things to your preferences which presents an inherent bias and resistance to change.

I suppose, now looking in retrospect, I am kind of offended, which is as to why I'm posting this when according to my own logic. In all actuality, I am, I am offended, not by what was said in particular by either party, but because I feel slightly as if I am in the wrong for expressing an opinion that I had reasoned. When I look back through my own life, I've been a complete retard on many an occasion, even online and maybe even on this very site, as I'm sure someone would attest to that. I've been open to criticism on several fronts and looking back, I truly owe my life to that criticism.

I wouldn't be who I am now if it wasn't for the fact that when I did something stupid, someone told me I was stupid. If it wasn't for the fact someone called me pathetic, I'd still be doing pathetic things, and if I may say so, I might not be the greatest person, but I believe I'm the best person I can be, and I truly am grateful that I've come as far as that I have, I truly do hope that people who once knew me well will agree that I used to be nothing more than a pathetic kid, if only by nature, I do hope they can see me in a better light now, because I've taken those criticisms in and attempted to better myself because of them. I never felt that I was above that, I tried to ignore it in the past, but that's the thing, once it's there you really can't ignore it. You have to either accept it or hide from it, you can't ignore it, you run and hope it ignores you.

Right, you are doing something stupid by trying to force others to adhere to your standards. At the risk of sounding rude, I think raising this topic was stupid because you truly are just as offended as the girl was by your words. It's not a matter of what you're doing is stupid or wrong but the fact you're labeling her lifestyle as completely messed up despite having a limited context. Am I defending her lifestyle as correct? No, but I am saying people have a right to themselves and shouldn't have standards enforced onto them.

With that, I picture the youth of today, not all of them, for sure, but a lot of them I can say with confidence, that they do whatever they want, and when it comes to the time where they are due consequence, they run and hope that everything will ignore them. They don't want to face consequence, criticism, they just want to do whatever they want. It's why now we have shows like '16 and Pregnant', there's no accountability, if someone says something about you that you don't like, then it's on the person saying those things that the fault falls. Why is that so? If a girl just gave a blowjob to the entire football team at the back of the bus, is it not our prerogative to proclaim her a slut?

Right... There's totally less accountability when teenage pregnancy is going down (http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/reproductive-health/teen-pregnancy/trends.html). It's just about what you see rather than necessarily what is true. e.g. if the only Asian you ever see is mentally retarded (but you don't know this) and acts as such, your perception is warped into what isn't necessarily true. To pretend this generation is a runaway of idiocy and whatever is foolishness and a criticism that has passed generation to generation without meaning.

There's fair call in that you can't call someone whatever you want, but why is it that instead of hoping for logic and reason in what we say we instead just force society to smile and keep our opinions to ourselves? Why is it that we can't just tell someone we don't like them? And have it left at that? Why do we as people seek for everyone's approval and attention? I'd give anything for the capability to just tell someone that I didn't like them, and for them to just turn to me and smile, saying no more than an "ok" and leaving it at that. Sometimes you have to hurt people's feelings, it's not fun being sad, but should that really stop us from saying the things we should say to people?

My interpretation of this paragraph runs opposite of your arguments so I'd like some clarity. You say there's a drop in accountability but people still seek approval? The fact they don't have any accountability would suggest they don't care about approval right? Why do you need to say these things to people? What betterment do you suppose will result from this.

[BluBlaDe]

You care too much dude. It's like that everywhere and you can't change it. It also doesn't affect you so you should not care about it.