Elieson Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Let's work on the base units required to recruit first, and with that, establish means of measuring usefulness in combat (value of durability, availability, offensive output, pairUp endowment and performance reliability) as well as utility et al. After than, kids can be be argued for and placed in by sorting on a parent-by-parent basis. The problem with kids is varied recruitment time. Owain, for instance, can easily be recruited in a hurry if Lissa ends up marrying a unit like Donnel or Avatar, but will be waiting to even appear if marrying Henry. By that point, we need to establish more criterium, such as: When paralogues 5-? will be unlocked/attempted. Expected base stats of said child by Paralogue completion Expected skill inheritance of said child by Paralogue completion After that, we can place children according to the base tier list standard. And even after that, it'll still be fuzzy as to exact parent!child placement in some cases (Cherche, Henry and Tharja's children come to mind) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 How will we handle the breeding? I know it has some effect on the child, but should Lucina (Avatar) be ranked differently than Lucina (Sumia) on the list? Or would it be all one generalized Lucina? Sumia!Lucina have some problem because she did not come with immediate sibling C support, and in an extremely slow Hard playthrough, having GF inherrited by Sumia is unrealistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAttSTER Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I can't believe there's a discussion for this. Tier list goes: Use: Avatar (F) Avatar (M) Chrom Don't Use: Everyone else You can beat Hard Mode in under an hour by abusing Veteran. This is the most efficient and quickest method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 -Low Kjelle (Lolk) I don't know, I find kjelle pretty good compared to other children. Her mother has a lot of speed, so even as a knight her speed will be pretty good. You can also instantly promote her to GK, one of the best classes of the game and her bases are actually pretty good.. I think she should be in middle tier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I can't believe there's a discussion for this. Tier list goes: Use: Avatar (F) Avatar (M) Chrom Don't Use: Everyone else You can beat Hard Mode in under an hour by abusing Veteran. This is the most efficient and quickest method. Regarding Miriel: I'm not convinced she should be above Tharja. Her defences are pretty crap, which means she's at risk of dying if she's attack by low HP enemies and she costs a Second Seal to reach Dark Mage - Second Seals being pretty rare and valuable earlygame, and there's other good candidates for them such as Avatar, Chrom, Panne, maybe a few I've missed. I'm not saying all of them are better candidates than her just that there's a big oppertunity cost involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Maybe it's not the most optimal usage, but how good is she with it? Is Miriel with the SS better than, say, Donnel with a SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) I don't know, I find kjelle pretty good compared to other children. Her mother has a lot of speed, so even as a knight her speed will be pretty good. You can also instantly promote her to GK, one of the best classes of the game and her bases are actually pretty good.. I think she should be in middle tier Did you notice I titled that sub-tier list "...Nosferatu kids..."?Kjelle isn't exactly a stellar Dark Mage Edited September 13, 2013 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I think things would be better off if there was a base list and people would then work out any flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Maybe it's not the most optimal usage, but how good is she with it? Is Miriel with the SS better than, say, Donnel with a SS? Donny's still not gonna be very good, I think. Okay, he can get trained easier because we don't care about turns, but he still needs to take a SS, then likely go Merc which gives him good stats, but still only 1 range. After promoting to Hero he'll be amazing, but that's like, midgame or later, and he'll still have taken reasonable amounts of resources early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Donny's still not gonna be very good, I think. Okay, he can get trained easier because we don't care about turns, but he still needs to take a SS, then likely go Merc which gives him good stats, but still only 1 range. After promoting to Hero he'll be amazing, but that's like, midgame or later, and he'll still have taken reasonable amounts of resources early. That's nothing compared to raising Olivia outside of dancer, considering her bases are worse and doesn't even have Donnel's stupid-high Aptitude-boosted growths to make up for said poor bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) This is idiotic. Kellam for top because Generals have high STR and DEF. Oh and Donnelol for top because turn counts dont matter and dem growths. Edited September 13, 2013 by Hawk King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Henry speed is also a problem. Being able to recover some hp with nosferatu is worthless when he's being doubled anyway. Um...doubled? Enemies are hardly breaking 13 AS at Ch.15, where he can be rather useful. Tonics can stop him from getting doubled, and he only requires 1-2 AS and a Dark Flier!Sumia support to double and 1RKO consistently...unpromoted. I've had him gain 1-2 levels in my run and early-promoted him and he took out most of the center of the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaprong Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Donnel top tier? Wtf Donnel has low caps and won't kill on lunatic/LateHard Also Stahl speed growths are bullshit and luck based, like Eliwood. He shouldn't be top tier, C or B Max Sumia can double anything on Lunatic if paired up. Gaius can be really good if he is put on a column on Chapter 6 and paired up with Decent defense. Sully can be B tier since her speed is usable. Tho a little fragile on Lunatic Edited September 13, 2013 by RPGamerVX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 This is on Hard Mode Turns don't matter here, but is grinding considered here, or is it just played like the other FEs with no regards to turns? I have a feeling it's the latter, but would be nice to clear it up all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 This is on Hard Mode Turns don't matter here, but is grinding considered here, or is it just played like the other FEs with no regards to turns? I have a feeling it's the latter, but would be nice to clear it up all the same. The fact that Donnel is discussed for top tier should explain how we're working this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaprong Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Yeah but donnel is still bad for lategame. And when I Mean low caps I mean that His Max stats are horrible except for Luck Edited September 13, 2013 by RPGamerVX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I have a feeling Aeine made this thread to troll nonLTC players. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) You can beat Hard Mode in under an hour by abusing Veteran. This is the most efficient and quickest method. Topic title: Turnless tier list Anyways I'm surprised we're not seeing more discussion of Sol, or Manaketes. Also, given how gamebreaking (and therefore somewhat controversial) Nosferatu is, would it be reasonable to rate the Dark Magic-capable characters twice, once with Nosferatu, and once where it's forbidden? I know I've seen something like that WRT Galeforce. EDITed for ninjas EDIT2: I have a feeling Aeine made this thread to troll nonLTC players. :/ Even if that's the case, it doesn't mean we can't attempt to co-opt the thread for its stated purpose. Edited September 13, 2013 by Euklyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yeah but donnel is still bad for lategame. And when I Mean low caps I mean that His Max stats are horrible except for Luck This isn't postgame. I doubt a lot of people will be hitttkng their caps. I have a feeling Aeine made this thread to troll nonLTC players. :/ I was getting the same feeling but meh. Still think something as base would > doing this from scratch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 This isn't postgame. I doubt a lot of people will be hitttkng their caps. I don't think I've ever used Donnel seriously, but would Aptitude allow him to hit his caps? He is a bit of a special case, right? Also he has access to Sol, so I guess he's got that going for him. I still don't like him, or using him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yeah but donnel is still bad for lategame. And when I Mean low caps I mean that His Max stats are horrible except for Luck did not mean jack GK!Sumia can solo Lunatic, so Donnel definitely can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The only good unit is Cynthia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The only good unit is Cynthia. But only Henry!Cynthia or Avatar!Cynthia, since obviously Nosferatu is all that matters. I mean Gaius!Cynthia could get Sol, which is basically a poor-man's Nosferatu, but meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I don't think I've ever used Donnel seriously, but would Aptitude allow him to hit his caps? He is a bit of a special case, right? Also he has access to Sol, so I guess he's got that going for him. I still don't like him, or using him He can cap on his first time through a class. Not liking him is fine. did not mean jack GK!Sumia can solo Lunatic, so Donnel definitely can Speaking as someone who has tried... no he can't. Endgame is just too much. The only good unit is Cynthia. Nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Turnless does not even require a tier list, can't we just say "people like who they like" they use them and be done with it? Honestly I don't really see the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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