FE7ifの作り手へ

[Miacis]

Kind of a personal digression, but since we're on the topic of splice contests... I wonder if it would be okay for a hack creator (totally not talking about me in the future, nope) to go around the contests, grab whatever he needs, ask all permissions to all creators, then make his game out of it?

(I find it rude, but then again, I come from a community where doing that is very frowned upon, so I dunno if people would be ok with it here, as long as I'd ask permission.)

Didn't even try to give credit.

Seems to take credit for the sprites themselves.

Let me ask this again, though: Are we certain about these two parts? Did somebody legitimately investigate on their topic(s?) and in their hack credits (both in-game and in-zip) to confirm that they, indeed, didn't credit anyone from here, and yet gave all spriting credit to themselves?

Edited September 18, 2013 by Miacis

[Thor Odinson]

Asking permission is better than not asking permission

Do keep in mind that some of the contest mugs are already in use though the nice ones get snagged up p fast

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I don't see why'd there be an issue with using the splice contest stuff with permission?

[AstraLunaSol]

There wouldn't be unless someone else already claimed it.

[Chocolate Kitty]

I do it all the time :/

[FalconVegeta1986]

Don't get me wrong, I always ask permission before using something. Actually, it'd be nice to have some way of knowing which ones are being used and which aren't. Maybe start some sort of compilation thread or something. A thread with sprites that are relatively easy to get permission for, or are already declared free to use. Would clear up alot of issues even within our own community.

@ miacis: even if they asked or gave credit, OoC just recently came out. I'm pretty sure those sprites aren't for use by anyone else, or sprites from other hacks like DoF/EN/etc. No offense, but I think that'd be pretty common sense there.

[Teapot]

As a general rule of thumb, it's just common courtesy to just fuckin' ask. Like, did your parents/teachers/peers/society not at least hint at not taking things that aren't yours? Is it really so hard a concept to understand that things that do not belong to you simply do not belong to you. Just because it exists does not mean it is open source or free to use. Most people are MORE than accommodating when you simply ask. Artists generally like sharing their works in most cases, providing they aren't very personal and thus dear to them. If you can't get permission for something, simply respect the artist's - the PERSON'S - will and leave them alone. Is it that difficult a human concept?

To further edit something is like rubbing salt on the wound. There is a difference between submitting work for a project and allowing the team to edit it - this is done of the artist's consent and knowledge. On the other hand, this is blatantly taking another artist's work and simply butchering it to suit their needs with absolutely no regard for the original creator.

I don't know how many of you consider yourselves legitimate "artists" or "creators" of any kind, but I really think it might be in your best interests to maybe try spending 6+ continuous hours on something only to have someone else profit off of it, with no credit of it to your name. It's infuriating. It's your work and care and hatred sweat and tears poured into something, and what do you see of it? Some fucking hideous vandalism of it in some foreign country's work so they can get a kick out of a shitty insert-OC in their otherwise vanilla hack. The absolute worst part is having absolutely no fucking way to even deal with it. Honestly, it's frustrating as hell.

[Thor Odinson]

Don't get me wrong, I always ask permission before using something. Actually, it'd be nice to have some way of knowing which ones are being used and which aren't. Maybe start some sort of compilation thread or something. A thread with sprites that are relatively easy to get permission for, or are already declared free to use. Would clear up alot of issues even within our own community.

That sounds like an interesting idea. Might work.

[NICKT™]

...on something only to have someone else profit off of it...

I hear what you're saying Aeo, and I agree with all of it, considering myself an artist, despite being a subpar one, I can completely understand what you're saying. Just, this little part here, irks me when it comes to this current situation, as far as my knowledge on this goes, they're not really profiting from it.

Granted, at that point you could say they profit not from money but from people looking at it with higher interest, due to it not being vanilla as you say. I suppose in turn it's how you look at it.

Either way, just that one point I wanted to say.

As for the rest, I'm surprised how this all is really still up for debate.
People continue to both confuse and amaze me, at the same time..

[Teapot]

Profit doesn't have to equate to monetary gain; it can simply be benefiting from someone's work.

[NICKT™]

Profit doesn't have to equate to monetary gain; it can simply be benefiting from someone's work.

=>

I hear what you're saying Aeo, and I agree with all of it, considering myself an artist, despite being a subpar one, I can completely understand what you're saying. Just, this little part here, irks me when it comes to this current situation, as far as my knowledge on this goes, they're not really profiting from it.

Granted, at that point you could say they profit not from money but from people looking at it with higher interest, due to it not being vanilla as you say. I suppose in turn it's how you look at it.

Either way, just that one point I wanted to say.

As for the rest, I'm surprised how this all is really still up for debate.

People continue to both confuse and amaze me, at the same time..

I'm not as stupid as you think, m'dear.

[Teapot]

It was a point of clarification, not scathing. :E

[NICKT™]

Forgive me for expecting something from one of the people who aren't essentially a fan of me to not be a subtle attack, especially considering your grand emphasis with the underline, just in case I was too illiterate to realize what you were saying.

[TheWill]

As a general rule of thumb, it's just common courtesy to just fuckin' ask. Like, did your parents/teachers/peers/society not at least hint at not taking things that aren't yours? Is it really so hard a concept to understand that things that do not belong to you simply do not belong to you. Just because it exists does not mean it is open source or free to use. Most people are MORE than accommodating when you simply ask. Artists generally like sharing their works in most cases, providing they aren't very personal and thus dear to them. If you can't get permission for something, simply respect the artist's - the PERSON'S - will and leave them alone. Is it that difficult a human concept?

Let's be real here. This is pretty much the most controversial topic here. Not whether Nintendo is fine with it, not whether the spriters are fine with it, but simply the debate going on between theft versus hypocrisy. I think everyone can agree theft is wrong, but I think it boils down to whether the community, us as users, are sympathetic for other users who have had their work stolen when that's what they're doing to Nintendo.

Personally, I think theft has basically become a given. Movies, music and games, I'd be surprised if there was a poster who hasn't downloaded at least one of the three for personal use. Did we ask Nintendo to use alter their work? Did we ask Nintendo to take their sprites and splice them into something for fun? No, we - as a community - did not. From the article Vincent posted, we can assume as long as Nintendo doesn't feel their income is threatened, they won't take action (however that doesn't mean they necessarily care).

Let's say I spliced Anna and Fiora together. Then someone took that splice and spliced some extra hair on and recoloured it. This boils down to personal views. Do I have the right to be angry even though I done the same to Nintendo? Of course, customs are a whole other ball game. But in the end, we didn't ask Nintendo. FEif didn't ask us. In my personal opinion... are they in the wrong? Yes. Are we in the wrong? Yes.

[eclipse]

Have you sent the message yet?

[Arch]

Do I have the right to be angry even though I done the same to Nintendo? Of course, customs are a whole other ball game. But in the end, we didn't ask Nintendo. FEif didn't ask us. In my personal opinion... are they in the wrong? Yes. Are we in the wrong? Yes.

brb, let me just go tell every ROM hacker to give up their hobby because it's wrong

Just because I "stole" an engine (that Nintendo profited from ten years ago; nevermind that my work is free publicity for their series) doesn't mean I'm justified in stealing from the community. People need to take this false equivalency bullshit and shove it.

Edited September 19, 2013 by The Second Archsage

[dondon151]

But in the end, we didn't ask Nintendo. FEif didn't ask us. In my personal opinion... are they in the wrong? Yes. Are we in the wrong? Yes.

it's as if you didn't even read my post!

[TheWill]

brb, let me just go tell every ROM hacker to give up their hobby because it's wrong


Just because I "stole" an engine doesn't mean I'm going to steal from the community. People need to take this false equivalency bullshit and shove it.

I never said anyone should stop. But complaining about something you're doing is hypocrisy. Which is the whole discussion.

it's as if you didn't even read my post!

Sorry, I didn't read your post. I don't feel like going through the thread for it, feel free to tell me which page however.

[NICKT™]

Let's be real here. This is pretty much the most controversial topic here. Not whether Nintendo is fine with it, not whether the spriters are fine with it, but simply the debate going on between theft versus hypocrisy. I think everyone can agree theft is wrong, but I think it boils down to whether the community, us as users, are sympathetic for other users who have had their work stolen when that's what they're doing to Nintendo.

Personally, I think theft has basically become a given. Movies, music and games, I'd be surprised if there was a poster who hasn't downloaded at least one of the three for personal use. Did we ask Nintendo to use alter their work? Did we ask Nintendo to take their sprites and splice them into something for fun? No, we - as a community - did not. From the article Vincent posted, we can assume as long as Nintendo doesn't feel their income is threatened, they won't take action (however that doesn't mean they necessarily care).

Let's say I spliced Anna and Fiora together. Then someone took that splice and spliced some extra hair on and recoloured it. This boils down to personal views. Do I have the right to be angry even though I done the same to Nintendo? Of course, customs are a whole other ball game. But in the end, we didn't ask Nintendo. FEif didn't ask us. In my personal opinion... are they in the wrong? Yes. Are we in the wrong? Yes.

Let's also point out that as far as I can tell, it wasn't actually Nintendo that made the graphics, it was Intelligent Systems, as I believe they're actually the developers, I could be wrong though, so don't quote me on that.

Though, if it were the case, then everyone saying we're stealing from Nintendo is only somewhat correct in the sense in that Nin owns it, rather than made it.

From there on I shall say that, I do believe every, and I mean every, FE spriter knows without a shadow of a doubt that when he looks at a mug, that it's Fire Emblem. It's a given to think that when you see a mug, that it was made from or is at least done in the same style as FE, so we don't really need to outright say that "This was made from parts of an FE mug". Whereas if you took someone's mug and then added more on, you're using theirs and you should credit them cause they've put effort into it, and you can't just claim that credit is a given because we don't know who else put their work into that specific mug.

[Agro]

Have you sent the message yet?

I can't even figure out how to find the thread on 2ch ._.

[TheWill]

Let's also point out that as far as I can tell, it wasn't actually Nintendo that made the graphics, it was Intelligent Systems, as I believe they're actually the developers, I could be wrong though, so don't quote me on that.

Though, if it were the case, then everyone saying we're stealing from Nintendo is only somewhat correct in the sense in that Nin owns it, rather than made it.

From there on I shall say that, I do believe every, and I mean every, FE spriter knows without a shadow of a doubt that when he looks at a mug, that it's Fire Emblem. It's a given to think that when you see a mug, that it was made from or is at least done in the same style as FE, so we don't really need to outright say that "This was made from parts of an FE mug". Whereas if you took someone's mug and then added more on, you're using theirs and you should credit them cause they've put effort into it, and you can't just claim that credit is a given because we don't know who else put their work into that specific mug.

I agree! I feel asking and crediting are the perfect way to avoid the issue, but I wouldn't disagree if someone said it was hypocritical as realistically, it was done to Nintendo first. However, I would never enforce it on things such as splices or edits. Customs, as I said are another ball game.

I'd like to point out that the people that find:

Stealing from the company, fine.

Stealing from the community, a satanic act.

Just seems to show a bit of... unreasonable bias.

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

brb, let me just go tell every ROM hacker to give up their hobby because it's wrong

Just because I "stole" an engine (that Nintendo profited from ten years ago; nevermind that my work is free publicity for their series) doesn't mean I'm justified in stealing from the community. People need to take this false equivalency bullshit and shove it.

Doesn't matter that you're giving the owners free publicity. What does matter is that we are taking THEIR property, editing how WE see fit, without permission, but then complain when someone else does the same to us. It doesn't matter how long ago they stopped profiting from it, they still own it. It's not false equivalency, it's exactly the same.

Edited September 19, 2013 by GabrielKnight

[eclipse]

I can't even figure out how to find the thread on 2ch ._.

Ooh, two things:

1. Change "theft" to "plagiarism" (that's SoC territory)

2. PM one of Vincent/SoC, and see if they can help you with this. Right now, your message isn't doing what it was intended to.

[Teapot]

I like how everyone continues to press on the topic of splices when the main issue is that the majority of sprites stolen are in fact custom work. That makes them personal, private work from an individual artist.

I'm less upset about Alexis, honestly, since she's half-custom, but there's really no excuse at all for the others.

Edited September 19, 2013 by · j e a l o u s y ·

[Amelia]

I like how everyone continues to press on the topic of splices when the main issue is that the majority of sprites stolen are in fact custom work. That makes them personal, private work from an individual artist.

I'm less upset about Alexis, honestly, since she's half-custom, but there's really no excuse at all for the others.

[11:23:24 PM] Amelia: Just saw the topic

[11:23:29 PM] Amelia: and it's interesting

[11:23:32 PM] Amelia: the first sprite

[11:23:43 PM] Amelia: could have been using Dannie's Toona/Raven sprite too

I... Yeah. I'm not sure but the eyes and ear are so familiar.

Or it could be my version but I never posted mine... I think? So I kinda lean to his