FE7ifの作り手へ

[shadowofchaos]

also, rey or esau can correct me on this, but i think it may be better to use "FE7ifの作り手へ" instead of "FE7ifが作った日本人へ."

I'd agree with that.

Lolol

おいおい、冗談だろう？

Hey now, you have *GOT* to be kidding.

Edited September 19, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[dondon151]

Now this logic suggests that despite it having been Bill who did it, they should be justified in stealing work from Jim & Bob just for having been involved with the project. How would anyone who is a part of a hacking project from our community feel if they were punished or wronged for the actions of the person who commissions their work?

It's totally ignorant to just lump them all together without knowing a thing about them, and in extremely poor taste to retaliate against some people who potentially weren't even involved in what we're discussing.

1. i already said that it would be prudent to try to elicit a response before deciding on another course of action.

2. i do not agree with your assertion that jim and bob are blameless. if i robbed a bank and PKL drove the getaway car, you would not say that PKL is blameless. jim and bob should be aware that bill is using stolen sprites (since i'm assuming that they've played through the hack at some point and have a rough idea where everything came from). if they were abiding by the same moral standard by which our community abode, jim and bob would withdraw their support of bill's hack. clearly this has not been the case.

Edited September 19, 2013 by dondon151

[Tangerine]

1. i already said that it would be prudent to try to elicit a response before deciding on another course of action.

2. i do not agree with your assertion that jim and bob are blameless. if i robbed a bank and PKL drove the getaway car, you would not say that PKL is blameless. jim and bob should be aware that bill is using stolen sprites (since i'm assuming that they've played through the hack at some point and have a rough idea where everything came from). if they were abiding by the same moral standard by which our community abode, jim and bob would withdraw their support of bill's hack. clearly this has not been the case.

It's a distinct possibility that we may not be able to get a response or even manage to contact them, in which case we have to act based on what we know and not any assumptions made. Which is nothing.

We don't know if they're still working on the hack or not because we don't know who is contributing what. We don't know if they're aware that things are being taken, considering the privacy of the hack creator at the very least. In your example, PKL is assisting you in robbing the bank. Bob and Jim not doing anything is the equivalent of a friend finding out you did something wrong and not turning you in. Not without fault, but not subject to the same punishment as the person who actually did it. In fact you're punishing Bob and Jim more than you're punishing the person who actually did it!

Edited September 19, 2013 by Tangerine

[dondon151]

We don't know if they're still working on the hack or not because we don't know who is contributing what. We don't know if they're aware that things are being taken, considering the privacy of the hack creator at the very least. In your example, PKL is assisting you in robbing the bank. Bob and Jim not doing anything is the equivalent of a friend finding out you did something wrong and not turning you in. Not without fault, but not subject to the same punishment as the person who actually did it. In fact you're punishing Bob and Jim more than you're punishing the person who actually did it!

and as i said to you over skype, since you are the one making the positive claim (that there exist other contributors who are blissfully unaware of their IP being "stolen"), the burden of proof is on you to prove that claim. but we've settled that argument privately and it no longer seems to matter. i just needed to get in the last word so i don't look like a chump!

we have evidence that the FE7if creator(s) are at least attempting to credit some of the users whom they've borrowed resources from (though the extent of citation is egregiously inadequate). that said, i have to revise my stance on outright stealing FE7if's resources, but it is perfectly justifiable in my opinion, as well as within the code of conduct, to extract resources from the FE7if patch and allow others here to use them freely without explicit permission so long as the proper credit is given.

[Agro]

Well, guys, I've hit a roadblock. 2ch doesn't accept posts from IPs outside of Japan, nor does it allow the use of proxies, so there doesn't look to be much I can do to actually post a message on their board. If anyone is located in Japan or knows someone located Japan and is willing to help out, I'd really appreciate it.

[Tangerine]

and as i said to you over skype, since you are the one making the positive claim (that there exist other contributors who are blissfully unaware of their IP being "stolen"), the burden of proof is on you to prove that claim. but we've settled that argument privately and it no longer seems to matter. i just needed to get in the last word so i don't look like a chump!

The message is that we shouldn't be doing anything without something truly conclusive one way or another. Also you can't get the last word in if I keep quoting you and posting.

I will even risk a spam warn just to look like less of a chump than you! Come at me subordinates, if you no longer value your pink.

Well, guys, I've hit a roadblock. 2ch doesn't accept posts from IPs outside of Japan, nor does it allow the use of proxies, so there doesn't look to be much I can do to actually post a message on their board. If anyone is located in Japan or knows someone located Japan and is willing to help out, I'd really appreciate it.

I know we have a couple non-Wist Japanese members, I just wish I could remember their names.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Tangerine

[shadowofchaos]

Well, guys, I've hit a roadblock. 2ch doesn't accept posts from IPs outside of Japan, nor does it allow the use of proxies, so there doesn't look to be much I can do to actually post a message on their board.

Told you.

If anyone is located in Japan or knows someone located Japan and is willing to help out, I'd really appreciate it.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=41095

The guy who started this topic is currently in Japan.

[TheWill]

- Hackers editing the Fire Emblem engine/graphics/etc are stealing neither IS's sales, nor credit.

Interesting, so if a hacker did claim credit, you'd find something wrong with that? You should note, that even if FEif did give credit, that wouldn't solve the issue at hand that they stole other peoples custom work. Also noted that you mention that what people is doing is illegal, I agree with that statement, but am unsure of whether taking someone else's work, regardless of being in an illegal product is legal or not. Should that work not be copyrighted to the creator?

Either way, the legality statement isn't "opposite". You may have a point with justifying the righteousness as Nintendo probably aren't losing many assets or having their work claimed by another. But let's be real, the only time Nintendo intervenes is when they see others making money over their products, generally something of noticeable popular. Hacks do however, opt for people new to the Fire Emblem series to download a ROM over use a real copy as it not only lets you play the original game, but also hacks applied to the game. As you may know, Nintendo is applying more and more anti-piracy codes into their games to prevent ROMs and the like. Just because it isn't hurting Nintendo's assets by any substantial amount any more does not make it "right".

You should actually take into account the average person does not care if they're doing right or wrong. Just because a game is xx years amount old doesn't make it "right" in the slightest to download, regardless of income. Maybe more acceptable, but not right.

Edited September 20, 2013 by SlipperySlippy

[Orpheon]

Told you.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=41095

The guy who started this topic is currently in Japan.

Isn't Blazing_Soul also in Japan? Then again, I haven't seen him around in a long while.

[Wayward Winds]

Hacks do however, opt for people new to the Fire Emblem series to download a ROM over use a real copy as it not only lets you play the original game, but also hacks applied to the game. As you may know, Nintendo is applying more and more anti-piracy codes into their games to prevent ROMs and the like. Just because it isn't hurting Nintendo's assets by any substantial amount any more does not make it "right". You should actually take into account the average person does not care if they're doing right or wrong. Just because a game is xx years amount old doesn't make it "right" in the slightest to download, regardless of income. Maybe more acceptable, but not right.

(This is where I get slammed for not contributing to the main reason for the thread. And possibly other things...)

In my opinion, the only time using a downloaded ROM is acceptable is if you a) already legally own the game in question (and I don't include second hand purchases in that, for reasons I'll state in a moment) AND b), have not the capability to extract your own ROM from said copy. This is my position.

I legally own FE7 and FE8, both purchased for £30 ($48 or 35.5 Euros), new. Not bootleg copies either. This is in addition to a GBA and DS Lite, again purchased new and both now worn out with use (mostly by FE). Nintendo have had their profit from me. Even so, while I use downloaded ROMs for patching with hacks (lacking the capability to extract my own from the cartridge), I only use them for said hacks. If I want to play base FE7 or FE8, then I'll resort to fighting with the worn out buttons of my DS.

And I'll be picking up a 3DS and Awakening soon. Again, both new. Like I said somewhere else in the forum, I like to play official games legally, and I do support Nintendo. I like to think (naively) that most others have this mindset.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Wayward Winds

[shadowofchaos]

Isn't Blazing_Soul also in Japan? Then again, I haven't seen him around in a long while.

I also mentioned him to Tangerine and the others in the Skype chat as the other person on SF with a Japanese IP... but like you said I haven't seen him around.

[Crimson Red]

The solution is to stop making good sprites for people to steal

[gringe]

Told you.http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=41095The guy who started this topic is currently in Japan.

I have a username, you know. I'd prefer not to be called just "that guy"...

Anyway, I have no real opinion on this matter and I've never posted on 2ch but if I can figure it out without much trouble I could post it for you.

[Agro]

Oh wow, that'd be great. I'll give you the link:

http://kohada.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/gameurawaza/1379418627/l50

It seems pretty straightforward (scroll down to bottom of the page).

If you could just C+P this message:

烈火ifの作り手へ

私は西洋のSerenes ForestというFEサイトからです。

すみません、日本語はあまりとくいじゃないですから、このメッセージをいったいどこで書き込むか本当に分かりませんでした。

しばらく前、烈火ifでBlackavarかVampire Elfなどというユーザーのグラフィックが認可なし使われていると気がつかれました。

最近、新しい烈火ifのヴァージョンが出られました。今でも私たちのグラフィックが使われたようです。

特に、あのアリスというキャラはOrigin of Creationのグラフィックです。

http://i.imgur.com/4Njmdve.gif

http://i.imgur.com/106rM7W.gif

http://i.imgur.com/EQlDdLa.gif

http://i.imgur.com/DKsXKKc.gif

できれば、英語で連絡してください。

英語を話すFEコミュニティ私たちは悪いことをさられたと思います。

これから、２ｃｈを時々読みますから、2chでもメッセージを書いてもいいです。

では、お返事を待っています。

Then press "書き込む". After that, there's some disclaimer, so just press this button and I think it should be posted. I've never gotten past there because that's where the region lock is, so we'll just have to see.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Agro

[gringe]

'kay, I think I was able to post it. Enjoy your shitstorms!

[Agro]

Yeah, it looks like that's it, although it's possible we have the wrong thread lolol OH WELL

(p.s. I think the commenter below is saying "lolwut")

Edited September 20, 2013 by Agro

[gringe]

Basically, yeah.

[Alfred Kamon]

http://kohada.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/gameurawaza/1367446325/

Here, scroll down, they're talking about us.

If I'm not getting it wrong, some of them are basically saying "We've remodeled them, so they can't claim the rights" and I suppose they want to contact Rey on the matter?

日本語が不自由過ぎて意味がわからん

And seems they're insulting our japanese too, lolol

Edited September 20, 2013 by Alfred Kamon

[Agro]

I know, that's the one I was reading.

やはりひどいな p(´⌒｀｡q)

And seems they're insulting our japanese too, lolol

I know, right? Like... it's not THAT bad...

Edited September 20, 2013 by Agro

[shadowofchaos]

Woohoo...

Actual Japanese people making fun of our community's Japanese speakers.

In all seriousness, we all have A LOT of practice translating Japanese to English.

Not the other way around.

[CT075]

welp

if that's their response then i guess they're not allowed to have qualms about their music

[Book of Ereshkigal]

As long as we edit it, right?

Well, you can't say you didn't try? XD

[Agro]

If I'm not getting it wrong, some of them are basically saying "We've remodeled them, so they can't claim the rights" and I suppose they want to contact Rey on the matter?

I'm afraid you're incorrect. The "remodeling" refers to hacking--what they're saying is essentially what's been said in this topic. "But you guys are doing illegal things too--you can't be complaining about thievery" is what some of them are saying. One of them says that shadowofchaos is a little silly for linking their thread in this forum. Another said I'm an attention whore and I should fuck off. Another said they should apologise. None of them are FE7if's creators, though, so we'll have to hold off on making any judgements for now.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Just as a variety of replies as we got here. :D

(So, who are the creators anyway?)

Edited September 20, 2013 by L95

[shadowofchaos]

"But you guys are doing illegal things too--you can't be complaining about thievery" is what some of them are saying. One of them says that shadowofchaos is a little silly for linking their thread in this forum. Another said I'm an attention whore and I should fuck off. Another said they should apologise. None of them are FE7if's creators, though, so we'll have to hold off on making any judgements for now.

That's the nature of anonymous forums.

...and the person that mentions me... you could take it a little ruder.

But alas, the only thing that I can say is, my skills in English --> Japanese is a lot crappier than Japanese --> English.

日本語が下手ですね。　もっと勉強した方がいい。

And damn... I had that feeling we should have went with 作者 instead. xD

Edited September 20, 2013 by shadowofchaos