Refa Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Rutger's hardly broken at all if he doesn't get royally blessed with strength growths. He stops being the best bosskiller once Percival arrives, possibly earlier. How about after Echidna arrives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 How about after Echidna arrives? Better than Echidna due to the +30 crit; worse than Miledy (but they still work nice in tandem in some maps). Still, his strength needs to be way higher than average in order for the high hit rates to matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The critical factors are rescue and console canto. FE4 infantry have to walk the whole way, and they can't hit and run so they'll mostly be spectating even if they somehow keep up. Also compare balance between mounts, especially the three knights you start with. Marcus v Alance Sigurd v Aloishe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Also compare balance between mounts, especially the three knights you start with. Marcus v Alance Sigurd v Aloishe Sounds similar enough to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) None of the Fire Emblems are really balanced. A series like Fire Emblem can't be balanced without being overhauled. There have always been units more effective at getting the player through FE's maps than others. Your Haars against your Wolts. Edited October 15, 2013 by The Void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 "Bad" is subjective by your elitist attitude and you don't even LTC so I do not get you at all, if you did I'd understand your complaints entirely but truth of the matter is, the entire cast of FE6 is useable without LTC stipulations Rutger and Shin are mediocre in NM [heck Sue often surpasses him in NM and catches up in HM except in Str], Rutger is only as amazing as he is because of his class. I'm done bickering in this thread ciao. Apologies to PKL. My issue is, Wendy and Sophia are bad by virtue of having all the cards stacked against them (bad bases, bad jointime, etc.), and it's so bad for them that even for someone like me, who doesn't care about LTC, it's generally a monumental struggle to even work with them (I tried to raise Sophia on the one FE6 playthrough I played, but gave up because it wasn't worth the hassle). Granted, though, it doesn't make them unusable. Conceded that I probably was making Rutger and Shin sound better than they really were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Wendy's real problem is that the next 5 or so chapters are axe dominated, and then its a fucking desert. And if you didn't get her levels before then she hasn't got a chance of doing anything in midgame since Javelin chip is too inaccurate and insignificant otherwise. So she needs to be fed a LOT of kills in her join chapter, and then more than likely arena abused in chapter 13. Sophia is comparatively a lot more salvagable imo, aside from the Guiding Ring problem (same deal for Wendy really...), since her flux is more accurate (not great but still), and hits res so her damage output isn't garbage. I've done NM playthroughs using both Wendy and Sophia, hell my first FE6 NM playthrough was back when I was a noob and LETS USE EVERYONE AND ONLY PROMOTE AT LEVEL 20 kind of mindset (well not everyone because I didn't use prepromotes lol...), I'd say Sophia is a lot more workable (i got an insanely def blessed Sophia, she was quite the nosferatank in endgame lol). I think its fine that harder modes accentuate what characters are good and what are bad, thats in every FE game, but I don't think FE6's NM is terribly unbalanced, especially considering the cast size. Also @ balance, voted FE10 beacuse of whats already been stated. Things like how Zihark stomps Eddie in P1 and even if you raise him to 20 and promote, Ed still only averages to basically the same stats as Zihark AT BASE WITH NO TRANSFERS anyway. It's pretty pathetic, and I have never bothered putting effort into Ed ever since <_< (I mean there are comparisons to like how Seth and Franz have nearly the same averages at ?/20 and 20/20 but Franz is still invaluable for being your early cav) Then theres the whole availability issues (Tormod's team, CMK's, etc) and completely fucktarded broken units the game throws at you like Laguz "solo the map" royals, BK, etc. Edited October 15, 2013 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) wow there's so much FE6 hate in this thread, and as expected, a disproportionate of it comes from levant fortner. i'm going to defend FE6 on this front, and hopefully i'll do it very convincingly. a qualifier before i start: there's no doubt that the FE6 has its fair share of duds on hard mode. this is inevitable with both a large enough cast and a difficult enough game. i am not arguing that FE6 is balanced, nor is it even the FE game with the best balance. first of all, i want to dispel the notion that a large part of FE6's cast is useless. if one were to look at the cast from not strictly an LTC perspective, he can write off lilina, wendy, barth, cass, and sophia. that's 5 characters out of a cast of 53. if one were to introduce the restrictions of LTC into the mix, there would still be a surprising variety of characters that see frequent use, even if some of them are no good at fighting. you can observe this if you just bothered to watch some of my updated 0% growths playthrough videos: for example, my chapter 15 team looks pretty different from my chapter 11 team. second, i want to compare FE6 to other games. none of them are really the paragon of balance, and it should be easy to illustrate that most of them have similar ratios of useless characters to total cast, and that LTC exacerbates balance problems. - FE7 has 3-4 useless characters (wil, karel, nino, karla) in a cast of 42. guys like dart and canas get further shafted in LTC. - FE8 has 3-5 useless characters (amelia, marisa, l'arachel, ewan, rennac) in a cast of 36. - FE10 has 4 useless characters (meg, fiona, astrid, lyre) plus fully a fourth of part 4's 16 exclusive characters (stefan, oliver, bastian, volke) in a cast of 72. many otherwise usable characters never see use outside of their respective parts in LTC. - FE12 has a cast of 77, and many will agree with me that fully half of those characters are unusable on H3, and still most of those are unusable on H2. for a game that has a relatively large cast and relatively difficult enemies (behind only the games featuring lunatic modes), FE6 does balance pretty well. in summary: learn how to play the game or quit your bitching. as sort of a resident FE6 expert on this forum, i feel well qualified to say this. Edited October 15, 2013 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerker Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Wait, I'm the only one who voted for FE13? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadeuscho Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If you apply other RPG rules when it comes to grinding (that grinding is optional), I think FE13's unlimited grinding isn't bad. I find most of the units usable. My vote for FE11 probably has more to do with my dislike for the game, but I found too many units unusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Wait, I'm the only one who voted for FE13? I wouldn't say FE13 is "unbalanced" as it is broken. When it comes to units, I'd say FE1/3/11/12 would probably have the least balanced cast, though that's more a consequence of the ridiculously huge cast than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Honestly, if it's harder to use more characters that much in Binding Blade than in various other FEs like Blazing Sword, then I say those FE games are easier overall. Edited October 16, 2013 by The Void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Now I'm wondering exactly why Gregor is being bashed as among the worst units (at least, that's what it looks like from where I'm standing)... Edited October 16, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 If I suddenly made the thread title "Vote for your least favorite FE" nothing would change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) If I suddenly made the thread title "Vote for your least favorite FE" nothing would change. Well no I voted for FE12 even though it's one of the FE games i enjoyed the most, and I'd acknowledge that most of the FE game I enjoy (such as FE 4,7,8,9,12) are probably not well balanced(though FE8 masks this by being easy as f***) Edited October 16, 2013 by shinpichu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If I suddenly made the thread title "Vote for your least favorite FE" nothing would change. I liked FE12, but balance among its cast is not one of its strong suits IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Awakening had good PC vs PC balance, it was the PC vs enemy balance that was fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If I suddenly made the thread title "Vote for your least favorite FE" nothing would change. Mine wouldn't be FE10! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Mine wouldn't be for FE4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylphid Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Voted 10 because units like Meg, Fiona and Lyre coexist with units like laguz royals and majority of the Greil Mercenaries Now I'm wondering exactly why Gregor is being bashed as among the worst units (at least, that's what it looks like from where I'm standing)... He's the least broken unit in Awakening, thus the worst it has. Something like that I guess? I don't really know I always use him Edited October 16, 2013 by Sylphid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If it was vote for your least favorite, Im sure FE13 would have way more votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If the vote was for least favorite, FE11 will probably be winning. FE5 should definitely be up there. It's the game where Staff users have their own friggin' tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Shadow Dragon. If I suddenly made the thread title "Vote for your least favorite FE" nothing would change. I'm sure it's just a coincedence that SD is my least favourite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDipper Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Fuck all 11 haters, die I haven't play much to know, but I think 1,3,11,12 would be, since like, the starting cavaliers make up the 20% of usable characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Fuck all 11 haters, die I haven't play much to know, but I think 1,3,11,12 would be, since like, the starting cavaliers make up the 20% of usable characters. Even though I never played Shadow Dragon that much, I don't really think its balance is that bad relative to, say, FE4, where mounts' innate advantage is magnified to a startling degree. He's the least broken unit in Awakening, thus the worst it has. Something like that I guess? I don't really know I always use him I would've expected Donnel to be listed there if that were the case, not Gregor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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