One-Shot Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[BBM]

Trollstool, if you assumed that Poisoner was a scum role (fair enough as it generally is) and you Tracked Eclipse and saw her visit you, why didn't you vote her or at least express some suspicion of her? In fact, in #281, you even said that she seemed "town enough".

[BBM]

Also even if duplicate roles are a thing, so is balance, and I don't think that Shinori, Trollstool, and Poly are all town. A Watcher and two Trackers seems excessive, even if they're all one-shot.

[MRDRHAWK]

I know what my role PM says, so I know I'm legit. I'm thinking either SB/Manix dun goofed with the setup, or one of Shinori or Trollstool is BSing.

[Eurykins]

So... let's see here:

Shinori: Claims to be a Watcher.

Euklyd: Claims to be Town Restorer.

Poly: Claims to be a Town Tracker.

BBM: Claims to be a Jailer/Jail Keeper.

SK: Has yet to specify the role (but has verified BBM's claim)

Eclipse: Claims to be a Town Poisoner (has been verified by Trollstool)

Trollstool: Claims to be a Town Tracker (which will be verified as truth or not upon his death).

Refa (deceased): Ended up being the town hooker (RIP, Refa.)

Unclaimed people: Huck Finn, myself, Objection, and Scorri. (Unless I'm mistaken/missed a claim somewhere.)

Bolded names: People I'm still wary/unsure of their claims. Italicized names I'm fine with, though the only exception is Eclipse. (Still feels weird to see a 'town' poisoner, but backing off from that for now.)

Checking through the reasonings behind the claims (or otherwise the 'proof' offered with each claim):

Shinori: Possibly claimed due to the mix-up with another Mafia thread (in terms of timings, if I'm not mistaken), and/or due to the votes that were piling up against him at the start of the day phase.

My hint at my claim is the whole fact where I didn't post for the first two pages then said there was something I saw.

I was watching the first two pages and saw something = watcher.

Euklyd: Claimed as a result of the growing bandwagon in Day Phase 1, and no one's questioned it since.

Poly: Seems to have jumped the gun, so to speak, as to avoid getting put into the same group as someone who's currently hosting the most favored lynch target currently (Objection).

I call it preemptive, since I've been commonly lumped in with Objection as scum despite being against him the whole time.

Plus, when I saw that Trollstool had Tracker, I figured I could claim then too as an indicator that, yes, roles were duplicated.

----

1. I'm not sure Shinori's case is the strongest at all in attempting to verify his role- either he's being honest and he's doing his best to convince us of this, or else he threw together the few shreds of 'logic' he could to pass as a town watcher. Wary of him atm, but willing to let it pass for now.

2. I admit, with his claim as Town Restorer, no one wants to risk losing him. But an odd gut feeling's wondering if he's 100% honest about his claim... or he listed one that he knew no one would want to risk removing from the game (aka. Seemingly claims himself a role that would almost guarantee him full immunity from the priority of votes).

3. There's something about Poly's claim that bothers me. For one, in the rules of this Mafia thread itself- it stated that there can be duplicate roles floating around. This makes me wonder what made him wait until another Town Tracker claim (more or less from someone who's now apparently going to die anyways) was made until he threw his out. That and he seems concerned about being tagged with Objection, and sounded a little defensive about it.

4. If possible, I'd like to know more about your role, SK, since you seemed to be waiting on BBM earlier in the phase to verify and you were noting the roleblocking that happened to you. What role exactly are you sitting on?

[euklyd]

@Poly - The trouble with preemptive claiming, IMO, is that it seems like it'd go with a different flavor of paranoia than a townie's paranoia.

As town, I'm more concerned about getting NK'd after roleclaiming, and would only want to claim if forced, or if the benefits outweighed the risks, while scum are more concerned with looking like town than they are about getting NK'd, for obvious reasons.

There's more than 24 hours left in the phase, so I don't see the rush here, and I don't see what benefit you would get out of claiming.

I'm still not really satisfied with Shinori's explanation, though. It is the distancing that I find most scummy, not the initial argument with Refa in itself. Town will usually make a mistake D1, but trying to deny being part of it seems more like a scum move, at least to my eyes.

Objection is/was doing weirder distancing, IMO, since he seemed pretty sure that Refa was "Not Townie". He wasn't having as involved an argument with Refa D1 as Shinori, mostly by virtue of not posting as much as Shinori.

Poly is still pinging me weirdly from D1, and his claim today isn't making him look more like town to me.

Not sure if I'd prefer a Shinori or a Poly lynch at this point, and Objection is sorta pinging me oddly as well.

@BBM - is there any reason you think that Poly wouldn't bus a scumbuddy, or do you just not see it as likely? Has he even played a game as scum here before to analyze? I'm not convinced that it couldn't be a staged fight, but then again I'm hardly ever convinced that something isn't a staged fight.

[euklyd]

@Eurykins - I'd be happy to prove my role, but at the same time I'm not sure I have anything great to restore, and using my role just to try and prove my innocence seems like a silly thing to do.

Actually, Bizz said something about wanting me to restore their role (pronouns are confusing; I wish there was a gender-neutral third-person-singular pronoun that saw widespread use/recognition).

-snip-

I think that Troll and Eury are town because of things they've said, I can pull out specific examples if that would help. I think Euklyd might be town, I think he'd be more likely to be town if he proved his role since I doubt his role would be given to scum tbh. But I could be wrong. And there's the issue of scum possibly having a roleblocker too. I'm actually SUPER paranoid about scum roleblocker, I mean otherwise I would ask Euklyd to target me but he should target whoever he wants.

-snip-

Did you already use up your role or something?

[Momentai~]

Trollstool, if you assumed that Poisoner was a scum role (fair enough as it generally is) and you Tracked Eclipse and saw her visit you, why didn't you vote her or at least express some suspicion of her? In fact, in #281, you even said that she seemed "town enough".

I was thinking I may have had a chance of survival at that time so I lied about using my track. Who better to back my bluff than the person who admitted to visiting me? I figured if I did survive then mafia might kill me if they knew I didn't use my track (still accounting for the possibility of Euklyd not actually being town restorer here=reasoning for me over him). But since I am quite sure I'm not gonna survive at this point I might as well come clean on that.

I didn't use it on the first night because I wasn't expecting to be lynched or targeted by mafia on day 1. And, well, that didn't happen but I'm still dying. Isn't that just peachy~

[Zkirsche]

Only just got back from anime society screenings, was hoping I'd be subbed in before that.

Kevin what do you have to aay for you'reself

I'm town don't lynch me? A lot of what I have to say has probably already been said before but idgaf time to ISO people anyway:

[spoiler name=Poly]

If he acknowledged it as legit overreaction instead of just writing it off as a joke and thinking we'd forget about it, then I probably would've let it pass. But he took a poor way out, which made me even more suspicious of him.

Why is overreacting > joking?

Not comfortable with voting Objection

Ok changing your mind on someone is fine...

##Vote: Objection

Eh, I'm going back and forth now between him & Trollstool as my strongest scum read, and I think he's more likely to be scummy than the new guy, who's probably just noobtown.

...the repeated circular thought process going on though is bad though. Especially as the only thing Poly has said about Objection! is his RVS joke which is an incredibly flimsy reason to have for a D2 vote.

Also, instead of looking for other targets he's kinda focused on these two. He's acting like he has to vote one or the other and only really voted Objection! because he had no better options which says a lot about how much scumhunting he's done. PoE is not scumhunting, and that seems to be the only reason you ssupect Scorri as well ("the only one I could see as scum")

[spoiler name=eclipse]

Whether or not I pursue Momentai as a read is determined by whether or not I think it's important enough. Right now. . .I don't think it is.

This seems awfully hesistant, especially for you. What is more important from the perspective of a townie early on than pursuing scum reads? Ok, you were pressuring another scum read (BBM) but I don't see why you can't do both at the same time.

You're posting suspicions about everyone that's been active save Bizz (and sorta Refa, but he disappeared

I'm not really sure that this is scummy by itself. Going after multiple people is normal and a symptom of being active if that you have more stuff that's said to be examined. This is not "throwing stuff until it sticks" it's pushing people to see how they react.

At this point, you're tunneling, and it's completely unproductive

What? So he's going after the entire active memberbase but is tunneling on you? This is on page 7, little over 48 hours in and he hadn't even voted you. How is that tunnelling? This seems pretty defensive.

Your entire case on BBM is bad and overreactive IMO but what's worse is that instead of poisoning the guy who you suspected from the start of D1 to the end you poison Troll who you barely talked about. You got annoyed that Troll found a verbal tic and some horribly mixed reads from something he did at the start of D1. I feel like Troll is someone who was contributing but is someone you could justify poisoning, whereas I feel there'd be a lot more controversy if you poisoned BBM and there'd be less gain for a non-townie if you kill someone like Scorri or Baldrick who aren't really contributing all that much. Also the Poly vote came from nowhere too.

I was going to do Shinori and Troll but it's 1AM so I wanna sleep and it's making me lazy. From a skim on Shinori, he does seem to be getting awfully defensive about the whole thing and even though he's right that he didn't instigate the Refa wagon (technically, Scorri was the one who sealed Refa's fate), stuff like "But okay. You do realise that ...." and then his vote for the guy that started his wagon seem like he's overreacted a bit.

Troll looked Ok. Meh I'm tired zzzzzzzz

At this point, I think eclipse is my least favourite player in the game because of a mix of meta, a bad BBM case and then a strange poison target. Using rolespec to defend herself is also pretty bad.

##Unvote

##Vote: eclipse

eclipse > Poly > Shinori

[Eurykins]

I think that Troll and Eury are town because of things they've said, I can pull out specific examples if that would help. I think Euklyd might be town, I think he'd be more likely to be town if he proved his role since I doubt his role would be given to scum tbh. But I could be wrong. And there's the issue of scum possibly having a roleblocker too. I'm actually SUPER paranoid about scum roleblocker, I mean otherwise I would ask Euklyd to target me but he should target whoever he wants.

...Wait. So in getting roleblocked by BBM, your action was still technically used up? Care to elaborate more on it, please?

*And thank you Euklyd for pulling the fact that SK said this earlier- completely overlooked it. That, and your reasoning is fine regarding your role/ability, though I'm curious as to any specifics in terms of timing you can use it. I'm assuming it can be used at any point (day or night phase), and that the target will be notified of it happening?

[Zkirsche]

Fucking spoilers and quotes using different syntax.

[BBM]

If Eclipse is scum Poisoner, why would she target Trollstool, someone who had almost been lynched the previous day and could easily have been mislynched the next day, and who's also a less experienced player than me? Her poisoning me would have made more sense from scum perspective. Or she could have not claimed Poisoner at all and targeted like Bizz or somebody else protown.

[Zkirsche]

Why aren't I in bed yet. I blame youtube.

Didn't Troll know that eclipse was the one who poisoned them though? You can't really hide if the victim is told that you poisoned them.

As for Troll almost being lynched, they had 2 votes on them at the end of the day. They were no closer to being lynched than you or eclipse was. Wrt being more experienced: that's what I meant by choosing the least controversial target.

My impression of Troll from that admittedly brief skim of his ISO was that of someone actually trying to help and contribute so it seemed like a good target to off whilst justifying it with her really weak vote.

[Zkirsche]

her really weak vote.

her really weak read that she made D1.

[Percivalé]

I didn't use my role up yet, I just kind of assumed if I used up my role and got it restored the same night then that could work too but maybe that doesn't count. I don't know the role priorities in this game.

[BBM]

Trollstool didn't know that it was Eclipse specifically- just that he was poisoned, since his Tracker report was fake.

I feel Troll is scum. He didn't claim Tracker until after Eclipse claimed to have poisoned him. What chance of survival was he hoping for that he pretended he'd already used it?

The fact that Troll is less experienced than me means that offing him is less scum benefit than offing me is. And considering Eclipse was voting me for most of D1, would anyone really have called it a controversial choice of kill? I doubt it.

[Percivalé]

Welll, unless she had a whole plan of making her intentions look as town as possible. Eclipse is good at that. I'd see her pulling off the gambit lol. (Not necessarily that I think she actually did it this game, I just wouldn't put it past her.)

[Zkirsche]

Welll, unless she had a whole plan of making her intentions look as town as possible. Eclipse is good at that. I'd see her pulling off the gambit lol.

This is basically what I'm thinking is happening.

[BBM]

Except you were arguing earlier that she chose Troll because there would be less controversy. That's not the same thing. You also said that she didn't choose Scorri or Baldrick because there'd be less scum benefit in it. If she was trying to look at it from WHAT LOOKS TOWNIEST, why would that have been a reason for her not killing them? You're just taking any excuse to attack Eclipse at this point. In case my vote didn't carry over after the sub, ##Vote: Kirsche

Your entire case on BBM is bad and overreactive IMO but what's worse is that instead of poisoning the guy who you suspected from the start of D1 to the end you poison Troll who you barely talked about. You got annoyed that Troll found a verbal tic and some horribly mixed reads from something he did at the start of D1. I feel like Troll is someone who was contributing but is someone you could justify poisoning, whereas I feel there'd be a lot more controversy if you poisoned BBM and there'd be less gain for a non-townie if you kill someone like Scorri or Baldrick who aren't really contributing all that much. Also the Poly vote came from nowhere too.

[eclipse]

Hey, new claims. . .WTF. Suddenly I don't feel so bad about poisoning Trollstool (dude, at this point, you gain NOTHING by lying). I'm not too keen on Poly's claim, either. Speaking of, Poly, why did you consider targeting me?

I know what my role PM says, so I know I'm legit. I'm thinking either SB/Manix dun goofed with the setup, or one of Shinori or Trollstool is BSing.

Which do you think it is? If it's the latter, then why aren't you pushing Shinori (as Toadstool's gonna drop dead anyway)?

This post is full of waffle. I don't like it, but I've got other things to do.

Alright, what about my claim?

@Eurykins - I'd be happy to prove my role, but at the same time I'm not sure I have anything great to restore, and using my role just to try and prove my innocence seems like a silly thing to do.

Actually, Bizz said something about wanting me to restore their role (pronouns are confusing; I wish there was a gender-neutral third-person-singular pronoun that saw widespread use/recognition).

Did you already use up your role or something?

Y'know what's even dumber? DYING WITH YOUR ROLE UNUSED.

Actually, that brings a good point. With your claim, I'm quite surprised that Shinori wasn't on you.

I'm not quoting this. Apparently, you missed the first half of Trollstool's D1, because that sure as hell didn't look like contributing. Now you're doing what I felt BBM was doing, which is throwing stuff and hoping that it makes some sort of coherent case. My Poly vote didn't come "from nowhere"; read it.

Why aren't I in bed yet. I blame youtube.

Didn't Troll know that eclipse was the one who poisoned them though? You can't really hide if the victim is told that you poisoned them.

As for Troll almost being lynched, they had 2 votes on them at the end of the day. They were no closer to being lynched than you or eclipse was. Wrt being more experienced: that's what I meant by choosing the least controversial target.

My impression of Troll from that admittedly brief skim of his ISO was that of someone actually trying to help and contribute so it seemed like a good target to off whilst justifying it with her really weak vote.

Don't assume things about my role.

After that awful vote from kirsche on to me, I'm not going to object to his lynch. I'm also perfectly happy with leaving my vote on Polydeuces, for previously stated reasons. Now, back to bed.

[Percivalé]

##Vote: Kevin

in case the sub nullified my vote on Objection idk

[Percivalé]

i just got pokemon x but i'll try not to drop off of the face of mafia

[eclipse]

Oh, right, Bizz:

. . .actually, that post ticked me off for reasons that it shouldn't have. I've been up for too long. See you tomorrow.

It wasn't anything you did (or anything pertinent to the game). I woke up dizzy as all hell, which makes me think that I hit my wheat allergy last night. One of the other symptoms of it. . .is my moods swinging out of control. My apologies.

[MRDRHAWK]

I'm waiting to see whether or not Trollstool flips Tracker on N2 as he claims to be, since you're offing him then anyway. If he does flip town, then I'll be pushing Shinori for the D3 lynch for sure.

##Vote: Kirsche

Just in case I need to revote after the sub. I'm still getting a bad feeling about Objection/Kirsche.

[Eurykins]

This post is full of waffle. I don't like it, but I've got other things to do.

I posted my current thoughts on the whole mess with everyone throwing out claims on D2 (along with D1 claims) at the time that I posted it- maybe it struck as being a bit redundant at some places (thus making it seem like waffling), so that was my mistake.

##Revote Kirsche/Objection

I'm not sure how I feel about Kirsche atm. Considering past posts, I'm concerned about mixing a sub player's ISO/playing style in with what's already been said n' done. Suspicions are still there regarding Objection's own posts, and Kirsche's ones haven't done much to change any of it.

[euklyd]

-snip-

Alright, what about my claim?

Y'know what's even dumber? DYING WITH YOUR ROLE UNUSED.

Actually, that brings a good point. With your claim, I'm quite surprised that Shinori wasn't on you.

-snip-

re: your claim - I think that if you were a scum poisoner you wouldn't choose to kill someone like Trollstool, who strikes me as kind of an easy lynch target. I'm not really understanding where you decided that he's the most deserving target of your kill, since the last thing you said about him was

I don't like your case, and I've said why. Whether or not I pursue Momentai as a read is determined by whether or not I think it's important enough. Right now. . .I don't think it is.

-snip-

which kinda implied to me that you weren't interested in his death. Still, I'm not feeling any scum intent there, especially since IMO a scum!poisoner would've gone after BBM or Bizz or me or someone.

re: me super-wasting my role by dying - Yeah, I'm worried about that. I don't really expect to last the night, and I'm somewhat surprised that I made it through N1.

...Wait. So in getting roleblocked by BBM, your action was still technically used up? Care to elaborate more on it, please?

*And thank you Euklyd for pulling the fact that SK said this earlier- completely overlooked it. That, and your reasoning is fine regarding your role/ability, though I'm curious as to any specifics in terms of timing you can use it. I'm assuming it can be used at any point (day or night phase), and that the target will be notified of it happening?

No; I can only use my role at night. I assume my target will be notified, as it wouldn't make much sense if they remained ignorant.

@Bizz - yeah, that's kinda what I thought. No word yet about whether I can refill a target's action the same night it's used.

Oh and finally I'm not sure what to think of Kirsche's post. I feel like I agree with parts, then look back and disagree, and 10 minutes later I agree with different parts and I'm too tired to really make sense of much of it.

I don't think that poisoning Trollstool is scummy, but beyond that IDK and ought to take another look in the morning.