link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[charlie_]

imo just start whenever and just go have it play out whenever PKL is online.

[Espinosa]

So uh dondon, is your time freeing up yet? If not, would you be okay if somebody else stepped in with an Ilyana stall team?

Having a match with 3x eff. weaponry sometime would be interesting too (and there's no reason not to combine it with the current idea, either).

[dondon151]

exam battery this friday

[Elieson]

do you mind if I throw together a team and get in on this?

[Espinosa]

exam battery this friday

I hope it's okay if you play some other time then (I still have this idea that when I'm out of the picture as a mediator several games will be running simultaneously due to most people being in approximately the same time zone)... That is, if we can get a replacement player in quickly enough.

do you mind if I throw together a team and get in on this?

All players are more than welcome! Send your team to PKL and wait for somebody else to show up with a team.

So yeah, currently looking for somebody with a proper Ilyana stall team to have a match against a non-Ilyana stall sometime this week. Please PM your complete team to PKL if you have made such a team.

Protown, if you have a good idea what Ilyana stall is like (it might not be very explicit from the discussions we've had thus far but it's basically a team featuring Ilyana with both skills, bulky units and no glass cannons) then we could face each other in the next game.

[Elieson]

How are you handling provoke!shinon? Was that resolved?

[Espinosa]

Provoke Shinon is okay. No problem with that until we try out the boosters metagame. Right now I actually feel Ilyana w/ Shade could be quite a bit more game-breaking, but maybe not nearly as much with 3x eff. weapons (easier to kill Demi-banded royals, armours and mounts) or even at all assuming it's not Ilyana stall vs. non-Ilyana stall. A team featuring folks like Ike, Giffca, Largo, Boyd and Zihark shouldn't be taking all that long in removing enemies from the field.

[Espinosa]

Still looking for players to make an Ilyana stall team for the next match (Elieson, dondon, anyone else who might have the time and volition to do it). I know it's the busiest time of the year for most of us, myself included.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Espinosa

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Not me, my final test has ended yesterday

I don't understand the topic though

[Espinosa]

PKL and shadykid said it's basically Pokemon but without switch-ins and with weapons instead of moves. idk lol, it's like GBA Link Arena, but with Fixed Mode average stats, PoR natural/occult skills and the inability to counter a mage / 1-2 rng weapons like Wishblade/Ragnell at 1-range (you can choose your range while attacking).

[Hawkeye]

I'm sending an ilyana stall team to pkl now. pm me if you're interested and we can try to work out a time

*edit* Also, are we using supports? I feel like it was mentioned but I can't remember now
Also, forges are allowed, yes? I'm not sure if the OP is up to date with the current rules

Edited December 9, 2013 by Hawkeye

[Espinosa]

I'm sending an ilyana stall team to pkl now. pm me if you're interested and we can try to work out a time

*edit* Also, are we using supports? I feel like it was mentioned but I can't remember now

Also, forges are allowed, yes? I'm not sure if the OP is up to date with the current rules

Excellent.

Yeah, supports can be chosen and customised whenever possible (Ilyana x Gatrie x Shinon is a thing) and any silver weapons/Javelins-Hand Axes/basic tomes that you opt to use are automatically assumed to be forged with +5 Mt, +25 hit, +0 crit. PKL's more than qualified to look at your team and check if anything is not right/provide suggestions.

[Elieson]

There only reason I haven't submitted a team is because I'm still studying supports...

[Espinosa]

Ah sorry about that, haven't heard from you in a week so I thought you didn't have the time for it.

Supports are... not all that hot in PoR I guess? Compared to the GBA games with their fancy triangles and large bonuses in multiple stats anyway. The first matches had teams largely built around supports and featured many weakest links that as if were added for their support functions but whose supports went inactive because they were taken out in one brave weapon attack. Not only people like Rhys and Soren, but also folks like Marcia, Boyd (though I sense Boyd is very good with a Provoke Shinon on the same team).

Notable supports are probably (all at A level):

Ike x Oscar - +30 avo at A level. Makes them harder to kill, though royals and silver forge users still connect attacks just fine mostly.

Oscar x Kieran - +7 hit/22 avo. Kieran is doubled by Giffca however, but can reduce the damage done with one of the 2 Laguzguards available to you.

Oscar x Tanith - 30 avo. Tanith is not too likely to be in play, though we could turn Reinforce into something gimmicky and cool since how it's used in the arena is pretty arbitrary.

Boyd x Brom - +3 atk, +1 def, +7 hit. Maximises Boyd's potential as an offensive juggernaut in hyper-offence teams. Also lets Brom Brave Lance somebody really hard in said teams. However, Boyd is doubled and owned by the most popular unit in the meta - Ike, so he might want Shinon on the same team not to die too soon.

Shinon x Gatrie - +3 def, +7 hit, +7 avo. Makes Provoke Shinon hard to go away (SMs are the best guys for removing Shinon quickly before he tries to put as many people to sleep as he can) but since Shinon is top priority for attacks, this support stops functioning when the first turns are over. Makes Gatrie capable of hitting basically anything (with Brave Lance for example) without fearing much punishment (Luna/Aether procs excluded).

Ilyana x Gatrie - +3 def, +15 hit. This one's huge for Ilyana stall. Gatrie becomes impenetrable and the only way to get Ilyana killed fast is either to run a Demi-banded Nasir or Lucia, or hope she's dumb and kills herself on a Wishblade/Ragnell Luna/Aether proc or something stupid. Makes Gatrie connect brave weapon attacks with ease, take lots of punishment and makes Ilyana sieging very accurate. Gatrie's main weakness is the opponent's Ilyana (if not, then Aether procs and Giffca/Tibarn when not equipped with a Laguzguard).

Brom x Nepenthe - +1 atk, +1 def, +7 hit, +7 avo. For teams who run both Brom and Nepenthe, probably with plans try their luck with Wrath. Probably needs Shinon with Provoke to keep Nepenthe from dying before she attacks the right targets.

Brom x Zihark - +1 atk, +1 def, +15 avo. Useful bonuses for both Brom and Zihark (though Brom can scarcely hope to dodge anything with his low AS / luck).

Zihark x Ilyana - +1 def, +7 hit, +15 avo. An alternative support for more offensive teams starring Ilyana.

Astrid x Makalov - +1 def, +7 hit, +15 avo. The only good support Makalov has. Makalov is the best Paladin in a vacuum (statwise; being obliged to wield swords can be seen as a weakness), but whether you want the more frail and less powerful Astrid is up to you. +7 hit helps Makalov's slight hit problem.

Astrid x Gatrie - +1 def, +15 hit, +7 avo. If Astrid is in use, she might as well support Gatrie.

Less viable but still there:

Rolf x Shinon

Rolf x Tauroneo

Marcia x Gatrie/Rolf/Kieran/Tanith

Mia x Largo

Mia x Ilyana

Largo x Tauroneo

Lucia x Ilyana

Mia is weaker than Zihark but has good supports and Vantage. Tauroneo's advantage over the other two Generals is his Resolve skill. Marcia is frail and not very strong, but can try stun-proccing something (same as Tanith). Largo is only doubled by Naesala and has the scariest offence, but his supports aren't too likely to be in play. Lucia could appear to kill Ilyana through Shade.

[Espinosa]

Also, is it just me or are the Laguz royals not broken at all? I think we could try having a game with all three royals on one team some other time and see what happens. For example, if one has access to both Makalov and Naesala for a single spot (without being automatically robbed of Tibarn/Giffca when choosing Naesala), how likely is one to choose Naesala over Makalov? I think choosing Naesala is still not "obvious".

I do have a feeling much of what we understand right now will suffer a big change when we switch to 3x effective weapons. Hammers and Halberds lurking around (as well as Silver Bows nailing Naesala and Tibarn post-initial gauge really hard) should modify what we have right now.

[Elieson]

bows destroying Royals.with 3x implies that bow users are alive to do so, which seems unlikely since they are generally an early target.

Hammers seem less than necessary only because of the small percentage of teams running brom/gatrie. Halberd and Laguz weaponry, however...

[Espinosa]

bows destroying Royals.with 3x implies that bow users are alive to do so, which seems unlikely since they are generally an early target.

Hammers seem less than necessary only because of the small percentage of teams running brom/gatrie. Halberd and Laguz weaponry, however...

Any Paladin could happen to pull out a bow during the endgame, and good bulk + Sol enable them to survive for long enough to make it that far. Makalov is less likely due to having swords as one weapon type I guess? There generally hasn't been much popularity for 1-2 range aside from Ragnell/Wishblade because of the power deficit though, so maybe sword + bow Makalov could surprise somebody and still be useful.

I guess this is purely in my mind because not many matches have been played yet, but Brom and Gatrie are legitimately useful units, reaching almost 40 defence in some conditions (there's Vague Katti, supports and the Knight Ward). They can Brave Lance (no VK def boost in that fight then) a vulnerable target for huge damage and take very little back. Luna has also been shown to be very destructive during, I believe, Dio and Ice Sage's match, and I think ZM and Refa's as well.

Largo hitting Giffca with a 3x eff Laguz Axe, no supports, deals 41/68 damage (out of the three Royals, Giffca is the one who has the least need for a Full Guard... or was anyway), which is quite huge, though the hit is shaky (49 hit w/o supports).

In a 3x effective environment, Full Guards would be in higher demand, and foot units would feel more privileged. Ones like Ike and Zihark only benefit in that they lack a weakness (Laguzslayer isn't too hot), but you'd have characters like Nepenthe and Boyd appear more often because they can penetrate some weaknesses.

I guess scouting for Full Guards will also be fun? I think so far we've learnt the royals cannot possibly break anything.

[dondon151]

I guess scouting for Full Guards will also be fun? I think so far we've learnt the royals cannot possibly break anything.

have we really? this is not my impression at all. this is like saying that ragnell ike isn't centralizing, even though royals tie or beat ike in every parameter across the board (except naesala). you brought up laguz axe largo as if he were a counter to laguz royals, but 49 hit against the royal with the lowest avo is not a counter.

i also don't understand the point to a mechanic that hides information and promotes scouting.

[Elieson]

Espi, I pm'd pkl my team (minus gear), and added you to it. Please check it when you can. Idc if you face off against it knowing what it is

Also, how does Meteor play into battle scenarios? As a siege tome, does one not take return dmg via counter and vice versa?

Edited December 11, 2013 by The Protown SK

[Espinosa]

have we really? this is not my impression at all. this is like saying that ragnell ike isn't centralizing, even though royals tie or beat ike in every parameter across the board (except naesala). you brought up laguz axe largo as if he were a counter to laguz royals, but 49 hit against the royal with the lowest avo is not a counter.

i also don't understand the point to a mechanic that hides information and promotes scouting.

Royals have so many cons, it's not even funny:

- lack of offensive skills

- no possibility of HP restoration (Tibarn can get RNG blessed with Cancel procs though)

- offence is not significantly, if at all, higher than that of Beorc units

- lack of 1-2 range (Naesala has lolWind but who cares)

- lack of braves, and besides armours Tibarn/Giffca don't double any units of note. Naesala doubles everything but has damage output comparable to, like, Mia.

- since you must get your turn for your royal to transform if not equipped with the Demi Band (starting with Full Guard), getting a 2nd turn leaves you vulnerable to being whacked on the opponent's first turn (bows and tomes aren't effective but laguzslaying weapons are), and you want to run Shinon if you want to avoid it all costs.

- Full Guard royals are forced to take a turn (when it might not be beneficial for them to attack instead of anyone else still alive) to equip the Demi Band and, when that is done, they become 3x weak to laguzslaying weapons, tomes and (for bird royals) bows.

- any Beorc unit you choose to attack could happen to have one of the two Laguzguards, halving the damage dealt.

The latter point we talked about enough already and there's nothing extra to add, I feel. You could play against Elieson next, making your teams public to one another (or I could announce what weapons and accessories everybody starts with), and you could try using 2-3 royals in your team to see if that breaks the game by giving you an advantage (with one Demi Band per team though). I have a feeling it doesn't, though.

Espi, I pm'd pkl my team (minus gear), and added you to it. Please check it when you can. Idc if you face off against it knowing what it is

Also, how does Meteor play into battle scenarios? As a siege tome, does one not take return dmg via counter and vice versa?

I didn't notice PKL was in it until just now lol. I'll be playing Hawkeye myself, so I'll probably be the one running your game (against dondon or maybe somebody else) anyway. Your game will be the first to have 3x effective weaponry, so take that into account when making your team when you choose accessories and weapons.

Yeah, Meteor cannot be countered (besides by other siege? needs confirmation), not even by Longbow Snipers since we don't limit the range like it's done in the GBA games and Ilyana doesn't counter anything with Meteor either (though with Shade she usually doesn't get hit until everybody else is dead, excluding teams that run Nihil Nasir and Parity Lucia).

[PKL]

We need Hawkeye to get on. Need him to confirm his team and he needs to add a few things to make my life easier.

While we wait, Espinosa, confirm to me the rules.

Supports are yes

Forges are yes

Laguz royals are what?

Provoke/Shade yes

Braves?

[Espinosa]

We need Hawkeye to get on. Need him to confirm his team and he needs to add a few things to make my life easier.

While we wait, Espinosa, confirm to me the rules.

Supports are yes

Forges are yes

Laguz royals are what?

Provoke/Shade yes

Braves?

Braves are in; Laguz royals limited to one per team. 2x effective damage for the last time for now (may revert to it if things get too messy with JP effective Might). Everything else you mentioned is yes/right.

I thought Hawkeye settled things out with his team, but we're going to need him online to get anywhere anyway (d'oh haha).

Edited December 11, 2013 by Espinosa

[PKL]

Espinosa vs Hawkeye begins!

-Braves/forges allowed

-One royal per team allowed

-Provoke/Shade allowed

-No statboosters or bands

-x2 effective might

Espinosa's Team:

VS.

Hawkeye's Team:

Espinosa handed his team first, so he was given the numbers 0-49. Hawkeye had numbers 50-99.

RN: 43

The RNG has decided that Espinosa will get to act first. Choose your character, his/her weapon and your target.

Edited December 11, 2013 by PKL

[Espinosa]

Brom, I choose you!

Attack Tibarn with your Brave Lance! I bet he can't counter it!

[PKL]

[spoiler=see teams here]

Espinosa's Team:



vs

Hawkeye's Team:

vs

Turn 1

Espinosa's Tibarn transforms!

Espinosa's Brom (Brave Lance) attacks Hawkeye's Tibarn (unequipped)!

11x2 damage 58 hit 0% crit 27% skill

(76 45 70 73)

Brom's attack missed!

(25 83 49 90)

(7)

Tibarn guards against Brom's attack!

Both sides survive the fight!

Stats:

Espinosa

Ike 52/52

Oscar 49/49

Makalov 51/51

Brom 55/55

Tibarn 66/66

Hawkeye

Tibarn 66/66

Ike 52/52

Gatrie 59/59

Ilyana 39/39

Oscar 49/49

Hawkeye acts next

Edited December 11, 2013 by PKL