link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Espinosa]

Think you two could start off with the 2nd generation? The 1st one should be a simplification of it at most.

Thinking of possible rulesets, how's this sound:

1) maintaining one game's continuity (e.g. no two kids being fathered by the same bloke, and the usual stuff like weapons and equipped items)

2) no * rank weapons

Anything else?

Some skill-related problems seem like they could arise, namely:

- in which order are swordskills checked for if somebody has multiple? Apparently, if one procs then the others don't.

- we have to somehow figure out the number of rounds Charge extends combat for.

- Prayer seems like it could be broken in certain situations, but it can be worked around by calculating HP and Nihil oh right it doesn't affect THAT

[General Horace]

swordskills are astra>luna>sol

charge is up to 20 rounds

and prayer only really activates once so yeah.

also you get two of each stat rings, 1 pursuit ring, two life rings, one prayer ring, and Julia's circlet for items I guess.

all the weapons and stuff are here though http://www.serenesforest.net/fe4/location.html

also, what are we donig about status swords?

Edited April 10, 2014 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

Ah gotcha, thanks.

What's the chance of Charge going for a certain number of rounds is what I'm asking. How about 2 rounds guaranteed, then 50% rolled for another round? If we lack knowledge of the actual mechanics, does this sound like a realistic reflection of what happens in-game, i.e. 25% chance to score 4 rounds of combat and more (including the first). Oh wait, is it just [user's Attack Speed - Enemy's Attack Speed + (HP/2)]% each time, repeatedly checked on every new "extra round"?

Also, can you stack two of the same stat ring?

And yeah, I noticed that page when I started my recentest playthrough.

[General Horace]

rings don't stack.

Charge is rolled at the start of every new round, it's activation really isn't very high unless you're facing someone that's REALLY bad in which case they're likely dead after the second round anyway.

I think it's also 7? slots for inventory+weaponry too.

and just so we're on the same page, we can use lovers as supports to get said bonuses, right?

Also I think that the ring stat boosts should be visable since when you attack someone in the gba link arena you see the accuracy and avoid and actually see their weapon too which is inconsistant with what we've been doing in fe9 so maybe not.

I just think it might be a good idea in fe4 since the stat changes are so drastic compared to other metas.

aaand one more thing, if there arises a scenerio where a sibling and lover crit have a chance to happen, it's not a 40% chance, its two separate 20% chances.

aaand one more thing, did you take into account events into the average stats? Or do we add those ourselves? (like if we use Levin!Sety do we get +3 luck from that conversation?)

Personally I think the conversations should be added, but only if you're using BOTH units in the event, so like Celice doesn't get the +3 res if you're not using Julia.

This is unless you took all that stuff into account.

Edited April 10, 2014 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

aaand one more thing, if there arises a scenerio where a sibling and lover crit have a chance to happen, it's not a 40% chance, its two separate 20% chances.

You mean I roll for (20) twice? It's not a big difference (4%) but all right. How did we learn that this is the case? Oh, and if the character with the supports has the Critical skill, is +20 added to the their skill stat each time? I guess that could make it different then, but not a whole lot.

Lover/sibling customisation should definitely take place but I'm not sure about stat boosts from conversations at all. For simplification in the initial stages of the meta, it could help to go without those. If we do end up employing them some time later, I don't think they should be limited to just the characters present in the player's team - it just needs to be feasible within the same playthrough that theoretically produces the team the player has built. Still, seems like a relatively small boost that might matter too little in the long run for that much of a fuss, kinda like my negative stance against the usage of bands in PoR. Maybe it's much easier with a mini-resource outlining all options and which are mutually exclusive? idk

For ring boosts, I could just post the a posteriori stats in the stats spoiler. No need to make that a mystery I think?

I'm curious to hear other opinions besides mine, too.

[General Horace]

I just assume its 20% twice because when a sibling critical hit is scored, you get the little animation showing which unit gave said unit the critical. I don't know 100% if it is the case, but I think it's safe to assume so.

If a unit with critical I assume its just skill + 20% twice as well, but I'm actually not sure if there's any way to actually test it.

As for the event boosts, they're all right here: http://serenesforest.net/fe4/event.html so they're not really all that hard to find, and it means a little more with who you pair with who (since lovers often give each other boosts) but if you want to go without it's fine as well. I personally think they're fine and don't want to redo the stats of my team but it really doesn't matter either way, see what Psych says I guess. I just find there's a difference in the amount of hassle in saying "Nanna gets +5 speed because Fin's her dad" as opposed to adding 5% to x growth over x number of levels. I don't think a mini resource is even necessary with the link above, it's pretty easy to CTRL+F stuff, and I think all the hidden events are for subs anyway.

and I agree on ring boosts.

[Espinosa]

It'd still make more sense to me that it's checked only once... Who knows though.

I guess part of the reason to act this or that way when it comes to events is how it would impact the metagame, the characters' balance and viability and so on. For example, at one point, I siwtched PoR averages from random mode to fixed mode, making changes like Brom not being doubled by Ilyana (who was a Top Tier unit alongside Ragnell Ike with the olden times' Shade mechanics) and Largo not being doubled by SMs. I think this could be one criterion to pay attention to. But my personal problem is that I don't know the game well enough to know my way around those boosts, I suppose, so if nobody feels that to be a problem then it's just something I'll have to get used to.

A possible way to test your critical theory would be to get a combination resulting in 80 crit with one lover or sibling, and have two of them by the character's side, RNG abusing in the arena to see if a crit ever fails to occur (according to your theory, it's 2 80% in a row that should fail to proc, which is still a lot of resets). Seems like a huge pain in the arse to test it like that though. Have you experienced a crit occurring with a sibling and a lover by a character's side without notifying either one of them is responsible, as if indicating that the crit occurred out of the weapon crit/unit's skill portion of the calculations? It's an interesting question.

[Refa]

Couldn't you just add the boosts to the spreadsheet? I mean if like Fin is Nanna's father, assume that she gets +5Spd? For the Lover ones, you could just put a list of them somewhere to make it easier for people.

[Espinosa]

A spreadsheet seems like a good alternative to modifying the stats in the averages thing. For example, if Tinny and Sety are lovers, the former will give the latter +3 mag. But assume I decide to use Sety on my team and he's in love with, like, Altenna or whatever. The boost becomes set in stone even though it isn't.

So does anyone really want the substitutes to be present in any form?

[Refa]

Uh...I think whoever subs for Tinny is pretty good. Amid is probably better than Arthur hilariously thanks to better caps. Well maybe not Levin!Arthur.

[Icon of Sin]

I say allow them, but having a kid and the substitute, such as Sety and Hawk, wouldn't work.

I mean, Sothe's still an option in FE9. Offer the opportunity to use them, but it's not like anyone will.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Woodshooter

[Espinosa]

Yeah, or Fee and Hawk (since you can't have one kid replaced but not the other).

I guess I'll add these folks soon (good thing their stats don't have any variances).

[Baldrick]

You could have a list of boosts, who they are for, and who they need to be paired with to get.

You could include the substitutes on a case-by-case basis. If anyone wants to use them, calculate their stats.

[General Horace]

all the subs are worse than the children in every way for link arena, the only reason Linda is any where near competant ingame is because she has elite.

Hawk might be better than some sety's, but that's probably it.

Actually looking at them Amid's averages are honestly pretty good

Edited April 11, 2014 by General Horace

[Baldrick]

Amid all the other mediocre units, he's pretty good.

[Shin]

Did some experimentation with FE4's lover crit thing. It's really not very clear what activates when, I'll need to run through it with my debugger. So far, from what I've gathered, it adds +20 to the crit check, I've done a good few dozen tests with the RN string, and there wasn't a single non-lover crit for my test unit who was given 80 skill. Mathematically if it were two, there'd be a 16% chance it wouldn't roll a crit.

However, the mechanics are more complicated than that, it's not always the first attack which will be the crit, it's often the attack on the counter. Also, the crit depends on the attack still landing, if the attack won't hit, you won't get the sparkles.

I'd recommend either ignoring the lover's crits or making a whole new mechanic. Crits are going to be through the roof, since skill=crit if you have Critical and luck doesn't protect against it. Doubling's also gonna be an issue, since 1 AS is all it takes.

[General Horace]

thats why you use alec! Awareness so bro.

[Espinosa]

Posting to say that I'm looking for a FE9 arena partner. Usual rules (no dragons), but with cut supports and weapons in. Horace already has my team, so if anyone's up for it, we can begin anytime you're ready.

[Baldrick]

I'm game. Is it one Nihil per side?

[Espinosa]

I'm game. Is it one Nihil per side?

Cool! And yeah, that was the other rule.

[General Horace]

I think so.

edit: NINJA'd

Edited April 12, 2014 by General Horace

[Randa]

Anybody up for an average stat, cuts supports and weapons?

[PKL]

Anybody up for an average stat, cuts supports and weapons?

I'll bite. I wanna test something out.

[Randa]

Okay anybody willing to host.

[General Horace]

since pkl already sent me his team i guess I could host if you guys don't mind waiting until tomorrow for it to be up.