link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Espinosa]

Do you think there would be any positive change for FE4 LA if we assumed max stats for all units? I gotta say they're already quite close to capramming a bunch of stats anyway, but it could help balance things out maybe?

[Elieson]

Can someone provide me with an instance of how all possible battle steps could go, in a theoretical order?

Assume that if something wouldn't occur, that said line would just blank out (not appear). I'm stuck with:

(IF(VANTAGE=YES))

• Defender (Vantage)
• Defender (Vantage, Brave)
• Attacker
• Attacker (Brave)
• Attacker (Double)
• Attacker (Double, Brave)
• Defender (Double)
• Defender (Double, Brave)

(IF(VANTAGE=NO))

• Attacker
• Attacker (Brave)
• Defender
• Defender (Brave)
• Defender (Double)
• Defender (Double, Brave)
• Attacker (Double)
• Attacker (Double, Brave)

Can anyone think of a way to realistically combine these into one single list? Vantage existing kind of futzes everything up

Also welcome back Hawkeye :) Thanks for the positive words~! Starting with FE13 was a nightmarish option

Edited July 10, 2015 by Elieson

[Jedi]

Hey guys it's good to see this thing getting a second wind. Unfortunately I don't see myself getting involved with it again as far as hosting goes any time soon but I'll definitely continue following this thread. Also Elie I really like the work you did with Excel. I had been working on a similar project before my disappearance over a year ago holy crap but going for FE13 compatibility right off the bat is pretty impressive.

HOLY CRAP Hawkeye, it's been so long!

[ZemZem]

Hey Hawkeye!

Jedi and I will be doing an FE4 Gen I battle later today. Be sure to check it out!

[General Horace]

Do you think there would be any positive change for FE4 LA if we assumed max stats for all units? I gotta say they're already quite close to capramming a bunch of stats anyway, but it could help balance things out maybe?

sages would be ridiculous, their caps are absolutely stupid

also the more stats people have the less hit people have because luck only affects avoid and not hit in FE4. So a capped out Sage has 90 avoid, and the lightest weaponry, making them stupidly hard to hit. Sety (and Julia I guess) do a stupid amount of damage too. Actually Julia might be really good because she has nihil.

But really all that happens is everyone uses Lakche/Sety/Shanan/Skasahar/filler (be it Celice or Leaf or Julia or something). The mounted classes are just too slow and have awful caps.

[Jedi]

@Anon I should have my FE9 team ready in a little bit.

[ZemZem]

The 2nd FE4 match will hopefully be here soon.

[General Horace]

yeah, i'll get it up here shortly

[General Horace]

actually, i'm pretty drained today and don't have the motivation to currently put them up, i'll either put them up before I go to be tonight or tomorrow morning.

it's just another way of saying i'm lazy. I do have all the teams for Jedi/ZM and Jedi/Anon though.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Eh, you do plenty of battles and all that, I wouldn't call you lazy for taking a short break.

[ZemZem]

No worries, Horace.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Just for fun, I'm going to remind the world of this:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=47815

I don't know if PKL comes around anymore, because I don't pay attention to things, but I'd certainly laugh if they actually finished this match.

Edited July 11, 2015 by AnonymousSpeed

[Quintessence]

I dont think so, Pkl is busy in his Fe12 playthroughs nowadays in becoming an ltc mastah.

[Jedi]

Baldrick wanted to try FE4 Gen 2 but with no Ayrakids allowed and Celice doesn't have leadership stars.

I have a team prepped for that if he's still game for it. The team I came up with is quite interesting.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Jedi

[Espinosa]

I don't think PKL is interested in LA anymore.

Anyway, I set up a new poll with some more Awakening questions to be settled. Would've procrastinated to put it up, but we gotta figure out what to do with Anathema fast, because people are putting it on their teams just for the hell of it, and there's no certainty what the skill description should be adapted into for LA. I interpreted it as affecting the unit attacking the Anathema user (even with Mire, which IS 3~10 range, and that's 3-range enough in my book) but since then a host has made it work like a reversed non-male specific Demoiselle at least on one occasion.

So looking forward to all voices interested in the development of the Awakening metagame.

[momogeek2141]

I can play with you but:

-3 skills per character max

-3 rings per character max

-skills and rings have to be possible in game (for example: no 9 speed rings and 3 luna)

-No immortal Finn, aware Trewd, hot Nannna and OP Galzus with his daughter

I need someone to host this battle! I need you!

Edit: and no holsety

Just FYI I have a team ready. Are we still going to do this?

[Jedi]

I honestly think it should just affect if the user is attacked/is attacking, considering if we look at how the GBA link arena works. I guess that's a shoddy explanation just the small distance between the attacker and defender, i'm still attempting to wrap my mind around FE13's meta and make a team lol

[Espinosa]

Yeah, but there's nothing in the GBA Link Arena that can be extrapolated in a convincing manner here. I can even see a third argument for the Anathema doing absolutely nothing (i.e. not even affecting the person fighting the Sorc) because the duellists are technically still with their teams and not actually in front of one another (though to me that seems much sillier than the sudden implementation of Anathema as a top tier skill that's in all ways superior to Demoiselle in application).

Honestly, it's another Shove/Provoke situation where we have to decide what exactly we do with the "fan fiction" aspect of our metagames. Unlike Shade/Provoke though, I do believe there must be some right way to implement to adapt Anathema with a specific effect that we should decide upon. In hindsight, Shade/Provoke do seem like a fiasco of our earlier fan fiction making a year back.

[General Horace]

I'm kind of on the fence about Vengeance. It's proc rate is ridiculously high and is the only reason sorcerers are as strong as they are (imo) . Maybe ban it on sorcerers?

[Quintessence]

3 Tile radius skills imply positioning of units in a space/map, there's no map so far in the LA project, RIP.

We do know that supports affect positively the allies in the original LA, therefore, skills like Demoiselle, Charm, etc should have a similar treatment. If said positive auras work that way, then I gues Anathema should work in the same way, because if it only affects the enemy fighting the Anathema user, then it'd have a disadvantage against Demoiselle, asides from that criteria being inconsistent (Anathema only works on combat with Anathema user but Charm, Demoiselle and other stuff affect everybody no matter what). Imo, Anathema should work as Demo, Charm and other skills. Btw, how did you guys used Daunt in FE9?

Now, if we don't want to complicate ourselves with 3 tile radius skills, then just ban them and let in support bonus and Dual Support+, regular S support give +15 Hit/Avo and +10 Crit/Dodge, and Dual Support+ give an extra +10 hit/avo idk. I have to check it properly. OR, ban these skills and let in for the fight 6 units Paired Up, implement Dual Strike, Dual Guard and Dual Support.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Uh...I don't think that's really a good idea, I think it's a little bloated. I agree that we should just have aura skills work across the board.

Daunt...did anyone ever use daunt? I don't even know what daunt does, I never used it.

[Espinosa]

Daunt is an enemy boss-only skill in FE9 so naturally it couldn't have appeared in any of our FE9 LA matches. It is assignable in Radiant Dawn, which we have never tried playing in spite of having all the stats and sprites available.

I don't see any consistency between skills affecting all allies working the opposite way to skills that should supposedly affect all enemies. Your allies are indeed 3 spaces around you (can be pictures in such a way if the skill user is in the centre or positions 2/4, let's say), while the enemies cannot, in any way, be considered to be within the range of 3 tiles to a passive Sorc that's not fighting anyone in the enemy's team. Whatever, I've developed and defended this argument in other threads on this, and it looks like I'm pretty much alone thinking what I think about it.

The practical applications of Anathema becoming a prominent skill (and you should indeed find it really often with the effect the majority wants) are: a) the weakening of Demoiselle's effect, actually beating it since Anathema used in this way affects units of all genders, b) contributing to the appearance of low% crits in the metagame, otherwise nearly impossible due to insanely high luck stats of everyone involved. The later is arguably a negative consequence; the former is questionable.

Definitely against the integration of supports in FE13. Wouldn't particularly mind the complete abolition of Demoiselle, Charm, and even Bond, too, since they don't particularly help the tactical aspect of the metagame, it seems. You just include them mechanically on your team not to have a disadvantage; seems easier to free up a skill slot for other tactical options, like -breaker mindgames, Pavise/Aegis, and other neat things. Taking this into a FE4/5 direction where the stars and the supports/Charm skills decide the hit/avo relations for the whole seems really unfavourable.

Hmm, don't think I can add that to the current poll, but what does everyone think?

[Quintessence]

Tbh, I understand both positions of Anathema and I'm ok with both of them. Thing is we don't have certainty about how enemy auras would work in LA.

Let's see, if you think anathema's effect is 'broken' (not broken as OP but broken as to break its effect) because passive Sorc is in its team and its partner and the enemy go to the center of the arena to battle, then one would think that support bonuses and positive auras's effect is interrupted as soon as the combatants are transported to the center of the map. But, as originally, supports are included despite this "warp" then I think the most logical thing is to treat anathema equally. In the end, I would agree with either situation, as a passive aura or as a 'combat' skill.

Currently, people shove anathema to counter demoiselles and to mess up hit rates, because the only way you could display crit is with a crit weapon and/or with wrath, but crt wpns are shadowed by legendary and brave weapons, along with ppl having huge lck and, demoiselle.

[General Horace]

I don't think there's any way to reduce evade to a ridiculous level like FE4 (unless you attack a unit that has breakers and lucky seven or something) with the current metagame. Demoiselle/charm/anathema are definately not required skills, nor are they even among the best skills in the meta so I see no reason to get rid of them.

[Espinosa]

How did that 10 crit w/ Balmung in that one battle even come around by the way? The weapon only has 10 crit to it.

And yeah, I guess Anathema does negate Demoiselle's effect and lead to more reliable hit rates. Still, that's 1 skill slot for anyone in your team who can access the Dark Mage class set, but I suppose Demoiselle impacts the meta more negatively.

Also, we've confirmed multiple Anathemas/Demoiselles don't stack, but what about multiple Bonds? Has anyone tried? Cause if only one Bond functions there's no reason for a clause, is there?