link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

ZM's team

PKL's team

vs

Turn 8.

ZM's Kieran (Silver Lance) attacks PKL's Ike (Vague Katti)!

17 damage 62% hit 0% crit 26% Sol

(9 44 78 96)

Ike receives 1/52 damage!

Ike is KO'd!

Stats:

ZM

Marcia 25/43^ [10]

Boyd 0/60

Kieran 49/49

Rolf 30/44

Mist 38/38

PKL

Ike 0/52

Marcia 43/43

Rolf 44/44

Oscar 49/49

Boyd 14/60

PKL acts next.

[MJThom_2009]

Oh come on...

Go ahead and blame the RNG goddess

[dondon151]

With how bad my luck has been with that, you can see how effective that is! Braves are guaranteed.

well, yes. that's why banning brave weapons is bad. if the dominant strategy is to fish for crits, that promotes variance, which is generally bad.

[PKL]

Marcia attacks Rolf with Silver Sword

[Espinosa]

Brave weapons are far from guaranteed to connect either (remember Kieran one-rounding Tanith at like 45% displayed hit last night?), and you often need to connect both to achieve the aim. The problem with braves is that when they're around (and one can be equipped by each unit in the team) barely anything else is used (introduction of forges would fix this somewhat for attacking bulkier units). Braves banned, we see silvers, killers, and nobody's preventing anybody from using effective weaponry (Halberd has 22 Mt against lance cavs and not a bad hit at all), either. I think mages are also viable under these conditions and technically Mist is a mage with a sword, sorta (with actual 'con' and high Mt on her weapons).

Also I think I might've ignored Vague Katti's defence boost to Ike when I calculated the first three attacks against him (Boyd/Rolf/Kieran) so he should've had 9 extra HP when Kieran was finishing him off. The extra 9 HP wouldn't have mattered anyway but I'll be more attentive next time I see the words 'Vague Katti' (I believe I did this right yesterday with Lucia and Stefan so it's not like I completely forgot about the bonus).

Carrying on.

[PKL]

How long til Marcia awakes btw? It's hard to tell

[Espinosa]

After the current turn. I've started including the turn before which the character wakes up/recovers from stun. For sleep, it's 5 turns (counting both players), beginning with the one on which the unit falls asleep. You can see it in brackets.

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

ZM's team

PKL's team

vs

Turn 9.

PKL's Marcia (Silver Sword) attacks ZM's Rolf (Killer Bow)!

18 damage 80% hit 0% crit 13% Stun

(86 89 82 36)

Marcia misses!

ZM's Marcia wakes up!

Stats:

ZM

Marcia 25/43

Boyd 0/60

Kieran 49/49

Rolf 30/44

Mist 38/38

PKL

Ike 0/52

Marcia 43/43

Rolf 44/44

Oscar 49/49

Boyd 14/60

ZM acts next.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Espinosa

[PKL]

Wouldn't it be 5 turns of the player? Since the game counts it as 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 each Player Phase. Technically the opposing player is EP. So my Ike shouldn't have awakened this soon.

EDIT: And sigh, this RNG is Thracia-levels of bad. I feel like I can't do anything.

Edited November 3, 2013 by PKL

[dondon151]

Brave weapons are far from guaranteed to connect either (remember Kieran one-rounding Tanith at like 45% displayed hit last night?), and you often need to connect both to achieve the aim.

kieran's chance of OHKOing tanith with a critical hit (22 crit): 9%

kieran's chance of ORKOing tanith with 2 brave axe hits: 16.8%

i could easily reverse this argument. say that kieran had OHKO'd tanith with a killer axe crit instead. that's less likely than hitting twice in a row with a brave axe. not to mention that at least with a brave axe, kieran has a 65.1% chance to do some sort of damage to tanith whereas with a killer axe, he only has a 41% chance to do some sort of damage.

so your argument doesn't demonstrate that removing brave weapons is good for the metagame.

if we use another example where the unit attacking with a brave weapon has higher hit (say, 70 hit),

chance of OHKOing with a critical hit (22 crit): 18.1%

chance of ORKOing with 2 brave axe hits: 67.7%

Braves banned, we see silvers, killers, and nobody's preventing anybody from using effective weaponry (Halberd has 22 Mt against lance cavs and not a bad hit at all), either.

you ban braves, and now all anyone ever uses are silvers and killers. effective weaponry is generally pretty bad because everyone gets a full guard on his team. great, what a fantastic improvement. you went from one dominant weapon type to two dominant weapon types (although i contend that anyone who knows what they're doing should be exclusively fishing for killer crits unless silver guarantees a kill).

Edited November 3, 2013 by dondon151

[ZemZem]

*pats PKL's shoulder*

Rolf shoots Marcia with the killer bow.

[shadykid]

see, should've played on a map!

[Espinosa]

Don't forget that without brave weapons, people still have 1-2 range weapons like Spear, Tomahawk and maybe eventually the Wishblade, dondon. Choosing to attack with a 1-2 range leaves you capable of countering bows (not necessarily limited to Rolf since Boyd and Paladins exist) and other people's 1-2 range. Just because we're not doing that much yet doesn't mean we can't.

There is only one Full Guard, and in teams with a flier (or more) the Paladin never gets one. You may still be tempted to equip a Knight Ward instead, even if you do not run a flier (or an armour; up to you whose defences to bolster).

Braves leading to a metagame that's less luck-reliant is also something I don't buy because spamming braves is in a way fishing for skill activations. That Aether Brave Sword Ike was a monster yesterday, soloing Refa out of a very painful situation.

It's up to you whether you want to use the weaker killer weapons (in Vague Katti's case, quite strong) or more reliable silvers - depends on how many hits you need to take a unit down, so it's up to the players' to strategise and calculate. It's definitely not as simple as "always use a killer or you're stupid" as you claim. All I'm saying is that it's not more interesting with brave weapons around.

[PKL]

The chances of Oscar not landing the 40% crit, then Ike not hitting the 68 then Marcia hitting 80% are so low i feel like raging.

EDIT: I probably would have more chance of winning the lottery!

Edited November 3, 2013 by PKL

[shadykid]

clearly, my CTF suggestion is superior

you can even make it so that mounted/flying units can't cross the center of the map and have to go around

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

ZM's team

PKL's team

vs

Turn 10.

ZM's Rolf (Killer Bow) attacks PKL's Marcia (Silver Sword)!

15 damage 84% hit 40% crit 13% Deadeye

Rolf activates Deadeye! 84% hit -> 100% hit

(72 18 31 33)

Critical hit!

Marcia takes 43/43 damage!

Marcia is KO'd!

Stats:

ZM

Marcia 25/43

Boyd 0/60

Kieran 49/49

Rolf 30/44

Mist 38/38

PKL

Ike 0/52

Marcia 0/43

Rolf 44/44

Oscar 49/49

Boyd 14/60

PKL acts next.

[ZemZem]

rolf you're my new favorite archer <3

[PKL]

This luck has to turn around sometime...

I'm going all or nothing.

Rolf attacks Rolf with Killer Bow

[Espinosa]

rolf you're my new favorite archer <3

How is he your favourite when you've been neglecting him even for the purposes of reliably finishing off Ike?

[ZemZem]

How is he your favourite when you've been neglecting him even for the purposes of reliably finishing off Ike?

Hush. He's being a bro right now.

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

ZM's team

PKL's team

vs

Turn 11.

PKL's Rolf (Killer Bow) attacks ZM's Rolf (Killer Bow)!

14 damage 80% hit 59% crit 13% Deadeye

PKL's Rolf activates Deadeye! 80% hit -> 100% hit

(81 19 56 61)

Critical hit!

ZM's Rolf receives 30/44 damage!

ZM's Rolf is KO'd!

Stats:

ZM

Marcia 25/43

Boyd 0/60

Kieran 49/49

Rolf 0/44

Mist 38/38

PKL

Ike 0/52

Marcia 0/43

Rolf 44/44

Oscar 49/49

Boyd 14/60

ZM acts next.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Espinosa

[PKL]

Freaking finally.

[ZemZem]

Yeah, that was a definite crit lol

Kieran attacks Rolf with the Killer Axe.

[PKL]

I'm oficially the most unlucky bastard ever if this crit from Kieran lands.

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

ZM's team

PKL's team

vs

Turn 12.

ZM's Kieran (Killer Axe) attacks PKL's Rolf (Killer Bow)!

20 damage 74% hit 24% crit 26% Sol

(37 7 63 55)

Rolf takes 20/44 damage!

Both sides survive the battle.

Stats:

ZM

Marcia 25/43

Boyd 0/60

Kieran 49/49

Rolf 0/44

Mist 38/38

PKL

Ike 0/52

Marcia 0/43

Rolf 24/44

Oscar 49/49

Boyd 14/60

PKL acts next.