Chrom is a bad king/leader

[blah the Prussian]

What politicians? The only non-royal family Ylissean Lord mentioned in the story was Duke Themis, who was mired in scandal a while ago and lost much of his power.

Nope. Themis was found not guilty, and kept most of his power.

[BlueLeafeon]

I agree with the fact that the problems mentioned previously are entirely because of the bad writing. I think this game suffers from middle school logic, and it can easily be summed up by tropes such as "Idiot Plot" (Where everyone is holding the Idiot Ball.) Another issue is that it attempts to be a funny game (the amount of crazy/stupid/ridiculous characters makes this obvious) but also tries to be dramatic and pull your heartstrings at the same time. The issue is that it is entirely difficult to pull this off. (In fact the only series I've ever seen that managed to pull off a plot where you're laughing one minute and in suspense the next was Ace Attorney.)

And if I may go off on a rabbit trail, here:

People talk about Chrom being flat and boring, but when I consider all of the characters, they really all suffer from the same fate. They have gimmicks and are completely devoted to said gimmicks to the point that it gets frustrating. Kellam is the worst example of this, being constantly unnoticed despite wearing huge unmissable armor. The only thing we know about his background is that he was a farmer and his townsfolk gave him the armor he's wearing. His gimmick is explained by the avatar as squinting the eyes and turning one's head. I might forgive this a little if this actually applied to the battlefield (which his script implies it does, but it doesn't.) but largely I think this can be explained by all the Shepherds just holding the idiot ball when it comes to him.

Which leads me back to my point. I think this game was entirely meant for a younger audience (and by that, I mean teenagers) and trying to dissect all of the issues that the bad writing throws into the game is somewhat of a waste of time. (And yet, here I am doing it anyway. 8D ) The game is mostly made out of chapters that are mini excuse plots (Chapter 4 being one of the biggest examples. So Flavia has no power to grant the alliance? Why don't we go ask Basilio, then? Is he so unwilling to help us that we have to earn Flavia's favor? If so, why isn't it mentioned? A handwave or lampshade hanging would be nice here.)

Don't get me wrong. I love the game. The gameplay alone is enough to overwrite my desire for logic most of the time. But I don't think you can completely pin the blame entirely on Chrom's character, especially when every character in the game is holding the Idiot Ball at some point or another, simply for plot reasons.

[arvilino]

I agree with the fact that the problems mentioned previously are entirely because of the bad writing. I think this game suffers from middle school logic, and it can easily be summed up by tropes such as "Idiot Plot" (Where everyone is holding the Idiot Ball.) Another issue is that it attempts to be a funny game (the amount of crazy/stupid/ridiculous characters makes this obvious) but also tries to be dramatic and pull your heartstrings at the same time. The issue is that it is entirely difficult to pull this off. (In fact the only series I've ever seen that managed to pull off a plot where you're laughing one minute and in suspense the next was Ace Attorney.)

And if I may go off on a rabbit trail, here:

People talk about Chrom being flat and boring, but when I consider all of the characters, they really all suffer from the same fate. They have gimmicks and are completely devoted to said gimmicks to the point that it gets frustrating. Kellam is the worst example of this, being constantly unnoticed despite wearing huge unmissable armor. The only thing we know about his background is that he was a farmer and his townsfolk gave him the armor he's wearing. His gimmick is explained by the avatar as squinting the eyes and turning one's head. I might forgive this a little if this actually applied to the battlefield (which his script implies it does, but it doesn't.) but largely I think this can be explained by all the Shepherds just holding the idiot ball when it comes to him.

Which leads me back to my point. I think this game was entirely meant for a younger audience (and by that, I mean teenagers) and trying to dissect all of the issues that the bad writing throws into the game is somewhat of a waste of time. (And yet, here I am doing it anyway. 8D ) The game is mostly made out of chapters that are mini excuse plots (Chapter 4 being one of the biggest examples. So Flavia has no power to grant the alliance? Why don't we go ask Basilio, then? Is he so unwilling to help us that we have to earn Flavia's favor? If so, why isn't it mentioned? A handwave or lampshade hanging would be nice here.)

They were having a tournament to see who was to be the ruling Kahn, if Chrom saw Basilio first, Basilio probably would have also requested Chrom represent him anyway, possibly after testing Chrom and co. against his current representatives

A lot of people seem to have a problem with that subplot. But really if Chrom was unwilling to represent one of them in the tournament why would they ever want to fight a war for Chrom? .

[Rapier]

The only thing that the Prologue has more than the rest of the story is amount of dialogue. What dialogue exists is still top notch and is more than enough to create an interesting world. Even though the support conversations of one character together probably have more dialogue than the entirety of Shadow Dragon, FE11 accomplishes far more with it's less dialogue.

More does not always mean better. And this is especially true in FE13's case.

Indeed. The characters show an ounce of personality in the Prologue. After that, 95% of the cast is generic and bland (if you have no access to outside sources), My problem with FE11 lies in it's story, not on Marth.

[BlueLeafeon]

They were having a tournament to see who was to be the ruling Kahn, if Chrom saw Basilio first, Basilio probably would have also requested Chrom represent him anyway, possibly after testing Chrom and co. against his current representatives

A lot of people seem to have a problem with that subplot. But really if Chrom was unwilling to represent one of them in the tournament why would they ever want to fight a war for Chrom? .

I was just quoting it as an example. It's not the only chapter that can be considered an excuse plot. And as I said, if they had mentioned it, that would have been fine.

A lot of the later chapters seem like they were just filler, especially once you get to the climax and the game is like "Oh you want to hurry up and save the world, huh? Too bad! Here's a map full of enemies you have to battle first!"

Edited December 31, 2013 by MagicLeafy

[Rapier]

I was just quoting it as an example. It's not the only chapter that can be considered an excuse plot. A lot of the later chapters seem like they were just filler, especially once you get to the climax and the game is like "Oh you want to hurry up and save the world, huh? Too bad! Here's a map full of enemies you have to battle first!"

Grima standing still and letting Chrom and co. escape is one of the worst offenders, imo. They should at least have given an excuse for it, such as "Grima is still recovering his strength, and it will take half a day until he's ready".

[BlueLeafeon]

Grima standing still and letting Chrom and co. escape is one of the worst offenders, imo. They should at least have given an excuse for it, such as "Grima is still recovering his strength, and it will take half a day until he's ready".

I haven't played the game in months, and I only recently beat chapter 4 in my recent playthrough, so I'm afraid the events of the later parts of the game aren't coming to mind as easily. But yeah, a lot of this game's issues could be solved with a simple explanation such as that.

[BrightBow]

They were having a tournament to see who was to be the ruling Kahn, if Chrom saw Basilio first, Basilio probably would have also requested Chrom represent him anyway, possibly after testing Chrom and co. against his current representatives

A lot of people seem to have a problem with that subplot. But really if Chrom was unwilling to represent one of them in the tournament why would they ever want to fight a war for Chrom? .

Considering that the khans get along just fine, the competition if effectively meaningless for the khans. Making a war dependent on that is irresponsible.

in this particular situation, Plegia is their enemy because the country is constantly attacking their population. It is their duty to put a stop on that, which means fighting Plegia.

While we don't know about Basillo, at least in Flavia's case, what she does is at odds with what the script wants to make us think of her. May it be because she made the question of an alliance dependent on the tournament or because she was casually wiling to risk the life of the prince of another country. Either way, she was putting herself ahead of the wellbeing of her people.

It wouldn't be bad writing if she was intended to be corrupt. That she would be an ally who is held in contempt but is nevertheless tolerated because she is needed.

But nothing ever acknowledges her actions. The script simply expects the players to ignore it just like it expects them to ignore that Lucina attacked Chrom for literally no reason.

Edited December 31, 2013 by BrightBow

[ClassyWolf]

They were having a tournament to see who was to be the ruling Kahn, if Chrom saw Basilio first, Basilio probably would have also requested Chrom represent him anyway, possibly after testing Chrom and co. against his current representatives

A lot of people seem to have a problem with that subplot. But really if Chrom was unwilling to represent one of them in the tournament why would they ever want to fight a war for Chrom? .

My main problem is why is Flavia so willing to put the life of a foreign royalty on the line? isn't the entire point of the khans not fighting because the fights are to the death? and what would have happened if Chrom would have died? I can't immagine Ylisse beeing particularly happy.

Not to menton that Ferox and Ylisse share a common enemy, so what reason do they have not to help them?

Edited December 31, 2013 by that one person

[BlueLeafeon]

My main problem is why is Flavia so willing to put the life of a foreign royalty on the line? isn't the entire point of the khans not fighting because the fights are to the death? and what would have happened if Chrom would have died? I can't immagine Ylisse beeing particularly happy.

The way she laughs when she says "I like you! I hope you survive!" doesn't help any.

[shadowofchaos]

My main problem is why is Flavia so willing to put the life of a foreign royalty on the line? isn't the entire point of the khans not fighting because the fights are to the death? And what would have happened if Chrom would have died? I can't imagine Ylisse being particularly happy.

Not to mention that Ferox and Ylisse share a common enemy, so what reason do they have not to help them?

The way she laughs when she says "I like you! I hope you survive!" doesn't help any.

This would have happened:

[arvilino]

My main problem is why is Flavia so willing to put the life of a foreign royalty on the line? isn't the entire point of the khans not fighting because the fights are to the death? and what would have happened if Chrom would have died? I can't immagine Ylisse beeing particularly happy.

Not to menton that Ferox and Ylisse share a common enemy, so what reason do they have not to help them?

Emmeryn would forgive Flavia?

[ClassyWolf]

Emmeryn would forgive Flavia?

lol, yes, and then the Ylissean people preform a coup to get rid of their weak leader and a new reign of terror begins under the new exalt Lissa

[shadowofchaos]

the new exalt Lissa

While her legitimacy has been proven with Wood/Owain's existence and his mark...

...he wasn't found yet, was he? And she doesn't have a mark.

[ClassyWolf]

While her legitimacy has been proven with Wood/Owain's existence and his mark...

...he wasn't found yet, was he? And she doesn't have a mark.

No he has't, and I'm just joking... but that would btw be interresting, what if Chrom had died and wasn't there to stop Emmeryns assasination, Lucina would probably have been overwelmed and Emmeryn killed... how would Ylisse procceed from there?

[Sunwoo]

People talk about Chrom being flat and boring, but when I consider all of the characters, they really all suffer from the same fate. They have gimmicks and are completely devoted to said gimmicks to the point that it gets frustrating. Kellam is the worst example of this, being constantly unnoticed despite wearing huge unmissable armor. The only thing we know about his background is that he was a farmer and his townsfolk gave him the armor he's wearing. His gimmick is explained by the avatar as squinting the eyes and turning one's head. I might forgive this a little if this actually applied to the battlefield (which his script implies it does, but it doesn't.) but largely I think this can be explained by all the Shepherds just holding the idiot ball when it comes to him.

Don't get me wrong. I love the game. The gameplay alone is enough to overwrite my desire for logic most of the time. But I don't think you can completely pin the blame entirely on Chrom's character, especially when every character in the game is holding the Idiot Ball at some point or another, simply for plot reasons.

I do agree with you that it's not only Chrom's character that causes problems with the plot, and that every characterization has issues. However, unlike Kellam, Chrom is a main character. You can't just bench him and pretend he's not there. Kellam? Just bench him, ignore him, kill him off, the game won't care. Chrom can't die, is in every cutscene, and takes part in major decisions. That is the difference.

But yeah, it's not JUST Chrom. Flavia and Basilio are not paragons of good decision making or rational sense either, and the way avatar pulls random plots out of his ass doesn't really help the plot either.

[blah the Prussian]

lol, yes, and then the Ylissean people preform a coup to get rid of their weak leader and a new reign of terror begins under the new exalt Lissa

Someone needs to write a fanfic of this. In all seriousness, I was always disturbed by the tournament thing.

[ClassyWolf]

I do agree with you that it's not only Chrom's character that causes problems with the plot, and that every characterization has issues. However, unlike Kellam, Chrom is a main character. You can't just bench him and pretend he's not there. Kellam? Just bench him, ignore him, kill him off, the game won't care.

I just have to laugh how ironic this comes off as.

Grima standing still and letting Chrom and co. escape is one of the worst offenders, imo. They should at least have given an excuse for it, such as "Grima is still recovering his strength, and it will take half a day until he's ready".

And it doesen't help that he is often described as a force of mass devastation, why would he go to a remote island instead of raining death on Akaneia and Valm?

Edited January 2, 2014 by that one person

[Rapier]

And it doesen't help that he is often described as a force of mass devastation, why would he go to a remote island instead of raining death on Akaneia and Valm?

He wanted to cosplay as Akuma, I guess. Final boss on a volcanic island? Check. Plain out cheats in the fight? Check. IS is also imitating Capcom's money hungriness with their DLCs and Idiot Ball plot excuses.

That being said, I think FE13's script has a lot of wasted potential. I miss the guys who wrote FE5 and FE9.

[ClassyWolf]

That being said, I think FE13's script has a lot of wasted potential. I miss the guys who wrote FE5 and FE9.

Not only did it have wasted potential, but they had good writers since they were able to make decently written dlc... couldn't they really make the effort to write a decent script to the acctual game?

[Rapier]

Not only did it have wasted potential, but they had good writers since they were able to make decently written dlc... couldn't they really make the effort to write a decent script to the acctual game?

I disagree with the decently written dlc part. I'll use Future of Despair's examples:

On the second Future of Despair DLC, some of the kids are crossing a bridge and there are Risen on their track. Inigo and Owain decide to stay while the others cross, so that they'd buy time.

Why didn't they all cross the bridge and then cut it off from the other side? For drama, of course.

---

Also, Grima took his merry old time not going after Lucina for ALL THESE YEARS, prefering instead to chill on Akuma's Island unless absolutely necessary. I would understand if he was limited, but he's portrayed as a Being of Mass Destruction who shouldn't have any issues destroying Ylisse with a small army (or alone, since he's INVINCIBLE)

I love how Awakening and Radiant Dawn handle dialogue, don't get me wrong. My issue is with how they handled the story and the plot.

[ClassyWolf]

I disagree with the decently written dlc part. I'll use Future of Despair's examples:

On the second Future of Despair DLC, some of the kids are crossing a bridge and there are Risen on their track. Inigo and Owain decide to stay while the others cross, so that they'd buy time.

Why didn't they all cross the bridge and then cut it off from the other side? For drama, of course.

---

Also, Grima took his merry old time not going after Lucina for ALL THESE YEARS, prefering instead to chill on Akuma's Island unless absolutely necessary. I would understand if he was limited, but he's portrayed as a Being of Mass Destruction who shouldn't have any issues destroying Ylisse with a small army (or alone, since he's INVINCIBLE)

I love how Awakening and Radiant Dawn handle dialogue, don't get me wrong. My issue is with how they handled the story and the plot.

I see your point...

I really hope they get better writters for the next game.

I'm not expecting shakesperian writing, but I'm hoping it'll be a somewhat consistent and more thought out... and not really on "teh power of friedshipz"... yeah, I was dissapointed with the ending.

[Airship Canon]

I disagree with the decently written dlc part. I'll use Future of Despair's examples:

On the second Future of Despair DLC, some of the kids are crossing a bridge and there are Risen on their track. Inigo and Owain decide to stay while the others cross, so that they'd buy time.

Why didn't they all cross the bridge and then cut it off from the other side? For drama, of course.

---

Also, Grima took his merry old time not going after Lucina for ALL THESE YEARS, prefering instead to chill on Akuma's Island unless absolutely necessary. I would understand if he was limited, but he's portrayed as a Being of Mass Destruction who shouldn't have any issues destroying Ylisse with a small army (or alone, since he's INVINCIBLE)

I love how Awakening and Radiant Dawn handle dialogue, don't get me wrong. My issue is with how they handled the story and the plot.

The case with FP though, you missed a point there.

They didn't cut the bridge to stop the Risen. They cut the bridge to make sure Brady and Yarne couldn't back them up.

They were a distraction for the Risen.

The Risen had a ton of fliers anyway and F!Morgan was a flier and headed their way.

A downed bridge isn't stopping the Risen, but them distracting them might buy enough time for Brady and Yarne to escape.

I don't know how you'd miss that.

Also, it's stated that Grima wasn't at full power after his revival. That's why he doesn't just up and kill Chrom & co. after 23 and heads to Mt. Origin afterwards. He's gaining strength and once he reaches full power, well...

As far as Lucina goes, he doesn't exactly fear her [or maybe he does, since his power is limited at first, and he may not be able to take her in a fight]. He steps in when needed-- and hell, Grima's shown to be a spiteful bastard who'd rather make people suffer than kill them outright, so his actions are easily explained.

And yes, Robin's ending sucks. Have your cake/eat it too is lame. Should've been "Kill Grima and die" or "Seal Grima" not "Kill Grima and die but be revived" or "Seal Grima". [Of course without it being lame there, it's still lame. Heroic sacrifices are dumb- and it's not like you can't stop Grima.]

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

They should get the writers from FE9 back.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Somewhat off topic, but what does have your cake and eat it too even mean? A cake is mostly pointless if you don't get to eat it...

I wouldn't mind Chrom being an idiot if it were pointed out. The whole Ferox arena situation feels shoehorned in so the CG team could have Marth and Chrom fight to look pretty imo.