What defines a 'Lord' character?

[Tables]

What characteristics does a character need to be considered one of a game's Lords/main characters? Which characters do and which characters should be considered their games Lords?

I think this was a fairly easy question up until FE8. FE1 has Marth, FE2 has Alm and Celica, FE3 is Marth again, FE4 is Sigurd and Seliph, FE5 is Leif, FE6 is Roy, FE7 is Lyn, Eliwood and Hector, FE8 is Eirika and Ephraim. But from FE9 onwards, things have gotten a little blurred.

In FE9 most people would probably say Ike is the only Lord. But Elincia is forced deployment in Endgame and is one of only two characters to give an auto gameover if they die. I wouldn't consider her to be a Lord, but those are definitely characteristics common for Lords.

FE10 is even worse. I think the general consensus is that Ike and Micaiah are the two lords. But I often see Elincia and sometimes Sothe and/or Tibarn mentioned as lords. Occasionally, even Geoffrey is called a Lord. So it's clear there's a little contention there.

FE11 is easy again, it's Marth.

FE12 and 13 get slightly more interesting once more. Does being an Avatar make you a Lord? In FE13, Lucina has very few typical gameplay aspects of being a Lord, but she is of the Lord class, so does she count?

My personal Lord list would be

FE9: Ike

FE10: Ike, Micaiah

FE11: Marth

FE12: (not sure as I haven't played it)

FE13: Avatar, Chrom

The reason for this is that, I think there are two criteria that a Lord needs to be considered a game's Lord. But my criteria are admittedly not backed up by anything solid in game, so they could be easily argued against.

1) They must be considered an army commander at some point during the game. This rules out things like FE9 Elincia, FE13 Lucina and others. For FE13 Avatar, there's streetpassing, where your Avatar is king.

2) They must be forced deployment in the final chapter. This is probably the more arbitrary condition, but it also fits - I might be wrong, but I think that final chapter forced deployment has always been only Lords. For FE10, you have to bring a bunch of characters into your endgame team, but only Ike and Micaiah are forced deployment, which rules out basically everything else.

I could possibly argue a third, they need a unique or otherwise special class. This I think fits for everything up to FE13, where Avatar's Tactician isn't unique, and Lucina also has the Lord class (but it is a female Lord which is actually mechanically different, so eh).

I dunno to what degree this has been discussed in the past, but I've seen lots of talk about Lords recently so thought it might be interesting to see some other people's thoughts.

[X-Naut]

1. Capable of seizing.

2. Consistently forced deployment and obtained relatively early.

3. Game over for death.

4. Class name is "Lord".

Criteria are in order of decreasing priority.

[Klokinator]

I guess that means Nils is a lord too? He causes a gameover in the later chapters IIRC.

[Anacybele]

1. Capable of seizing.

2. Consistently forced deployment and obtained relatively early.

3. Game over for death.

4. Class name is "Lord".

Criteria are in order of decreasing priority.

I disagree. Geoffrey has the first three in RD for a chapter or two. But he's definitely no Lord. He's rarely even usable in the game. Same with PoR Elincia.

For me, a Lord character fits this critieria:

1. Is playable for a majority of the game

2. Has a class called Lord or something of the equivalent, meaning a unique class that only this character can have

3. Causes a game over for much of the time this character is playable if said character dies.

4. Story has a lot of focus on them.

5. Consistently forced deployment.

6. Has the seize capability in the seize chapters this character is playable in

There's no priority order here, but the character, for me, must fit all of this criteria. I used to say Micaiah is not a Lord, but now she's debatable for me. She's playable for maybe half of RD, not quite the majority of the game.

But people like Elincia and Geoffrey do not qualify. Elincia is only playable for the last few chapters in PoR and is only available in a couple Part 2 chapters and a few Part 4 chapters in RD, if memory serves. Whatever the case, she's usable for only a small portion in both games. Geoffrey is the same.

Awakening's Avatar ALMOST qualifies. But the Tactician class can be used by his/her children as well as DLC Katarina, so...

Edited February 17, 2014 by Anacybele

[Magical Glace]

1. Very important/Central in the story.

2. Unique class.

3. Consistant Game over with death (Not counting Lyn mode).

I count Nils and FE9!Elincia, but not FE10!Elincia, because she honestly wasn't important enough there. Important, but it isn't enough due to how poor her availability is. The game doesn't even force her on the endgame.

Nils is a strange case, but he fits this criteria. Besides, it's interesting having a non-combat lord.

[Balcerzak]

Any playable character whose death consistently causes a gameover. "Consistently" deals with those one-off occasions like Geoffrey Arrives maps, or whatever, and playable character eliminates the sticky point of those escorty type missions (nobody would classify Natalie as a lord, for instance).

[Ema Skye]

My list.

FE9: Ike, Elincia

FE10: Micaiah, Sothe, Ike, Elincia

FE11: Marth

FE12: Marth, Avatar

FE13: Chrom, Avatar, Lucina

[Balcerzak]

2) They must be forced deployment in the final chapter. This is probably the more arbitrary condition, but it also fits - I might be wrong, but I think that final chapter forced deployment has always been only Lords. For FE10, you have to bring a bunch of characters into your endgame team, but only Ike and Micaiah are forced deployment, which rules out basically everything else.

They obviously fail your 1), but forced deployment in final.

[Rapier]

I'm pulling a captain obvious here for saying that 'Lord' became just a word that people relate to main characters that fit a certain criteria (being the army's commander, getting a game over when he/she dies, being deeply tied with the plot, having the player see the world and the events through his/her perspective). Being a literal lord doesn't matter, because the given and intended meaning is different from the literal, standard one.

So I'd say Marth, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Roy, Eliwood, Hector, Lyn, Ike, Micaiah and Chrom are the Lords of their respective games. Lissa, Yuria, Cuan, Ethlin, Owain, Lilina, Celica, Caeda, Minerva and Pelleas don't count as Lords for me, even though they literally are.

[Klokinator]

They obviously fail your 1), but forced deployment in final.

hey I made that point first

Also if he dies I think it's gameover so Nils is a canon lord.

[Azura]

5. Consistently forced deployment.

6. Has the seize capability in the seize chapters this character is playable in

I don't think those two should be taken as being criterias for lordship. Yes, it is criterias for the leading lord, but there can be other, non-leading lords, for example in FE7 where the Lords (IIRC) only can seize in their own mode, and (still IIRC) as often as not isn't forced deployment outside their own mode.

I think some of the criteria are

1: They are of noble birth, or gets risen to nobility in the course of the game

2: They have their own, seperate storyline within the game, which in the old games included Lyn's, Eliwoods and Hectors modes. An example from the newer games could be how the overall goal of FE9 was to defeat king Ashnard and get Elincia throned as the regent.

3: They generally receive a great deal of promotion from IS' side.

Now, those have to be taken with a grain of salt, as there are lords who don't fit all of the criteria, and some non-lord character who fits some of the criteria. All of those ''What makes a Lord'' checklists should be seen as a guideline, and not as some sort of final test.

[BBM]

Tables- by your definition, why isn't FE10 Elincia a lord? She commands her army in Part 2 (admittedly only for a chapter), is a joint commander with Tibarn in Part 4, and is forced Endgame. She even has her own class and Prf weapon.

I personally would say that any character who consistently provides a game-over upon their death is a lord. I don't think that availability really matters.

[Ein]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that Lords always have a weapon that is effective to horse and knight units.

[Florete]

Nils' defeat does not give a game over. Surprisingly, it seems like a lot of people are operating under the assumption it does, but that's wrong.

So long as you don't take the term "Lord" literally and just use it to mark specific characters (as we've been doing), I think it's pretty clear in all games except 10, 12, and 13. I think 10 can be made pretty easy by considering only the two units with unique classes, large amounts of time as their army leader, a game over on defeat for the entire game, and forced deployment in the final maps as lords (Ike and Micaiah). Elincia is close, but doesn't give a game over in Endgame nor is even forced there, and just doesn't have enough time as army leader. Sothe doesn't have a unique class nor is he force deployed on Endgame maps, and isn't even ever an actual leader of an army. Tibarn and Geoffrey...really? Sanaki is closer than them.

12 and 13 are awkward because of the Avatar. If you go with my above criteria:

1. Unique class

2. Army leader

3. Game over for death always

4. Force deployed in final

I'm pretty sure both meet all that except arguably army leader (and unique class in Awakening, but as far as regular playable characters, the only way other characters can get the class is through inheritance [from the Avatar], and Chrom's isn't completely unique anyway). However, it's odd to consider the character a "Lord" since they're never really in a protagonist situation.

Lucina, despite her class, I would say is not a Lord in the way we use it. She's rarely (if ever?) force deployed and doesn't give a game over if she falls (Right?).

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that Lords always have a weapon that is effective to horse and knight units.

Because FE13 Falchion and Ettard/Ragnell. Edited February 17, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[Hamicsat]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that Lords always have a weapon that is effective to horse and knight units.

That would leave out Sigurd/Seliph/Leaf/Alm/Celica, as well as Sothe and Elincia, if you count them.

As far as I'm concerned, a Lord is a character that:

1. Is billed as one of the game's main protagonists.

2. Causes a game over upon death.

3. Is forced in all/the majority of the chapters in which they are present.

With those criteria in mind, I'd say that both FE10 Sothe and Elincia are Lords, but FE9 Elincia is not, given the fact that she travels with Ike for most of the game, but does no fighting until the last few chapters.

[Anacybele]

Because FE13 Falchion and Ettard/Ragnell.

But Chrom starts with a Rapier, which is effective against heavy kngihts and horse knights and Ike gets the Regal Sword in PoR, which has the same bonus effects. :P

In RD, Ike no longer has his Regal Sword though, so I'll give you that one.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Anacybele

[Ein]

Because FE13 Falchion and Ettard/Ragnell.

Micaiah has Thani and Chrom/Lucina have the Rapier.

[riariadne]

Alm/Celica/Sigurd/Seliph/Leif/Avatars should you count them all still don't have a prf effetive weapon against horsez+knights so that's still not a very good rule

[BrightBow]

This entire effective weapon thing really didn't become a thing until Roy. Before that, Marth was the only main character who used one.

Edited February 17, 2014 by BrightBow

[NinjaMonkey]

But Elincia is forced deployment in Endgame

Thing is, I've never, ever deployed Elincia in Endgame... In fact, the only map I've ever deployed her is Chapter 26.

EDIT: I guess her forced Endgame deployment only happens on Hard and JPN Maniac modes.

Edited February 17, 2014 by NinjaMonkey

[Florete]

But Chrom starts with a Rapier, which is effective against heavy kngihts and horse knights and Ike gets the Regal Sword in PoR, which has the same bonus effects. :P

In RD, Ike no longer has his Regal Sword though, so I'll give you that one.

Forgot about the Rapier, but yeah, I was referring to RD Ike (Ettard and all).

Micaiah has Thani and Chrom/Lucina have the Rapier.

There's a reason I didn't mention Thani at all <_<.

[OrangeCrush980]

Nils doesn't give a Game Over. He retreats, and you can even deploy an 8th character of your choice in Light if he left before then (that 8th character will be stuck off the screen during the Fire Dragon fight though).

I'd say the 3 main criteria are:

1. Is the main commander for at least one chapter.

2. Them dying always results in a Game Over.

3. They have a unique class.

Which gives us:

9 - Ike

10 - Ike, Micaiah

12 - Marth

13 - Chrom

If #3 is removed, that gives us an awkward situation where FE12 Avatar qualifies but the FE13 one doesn't. I'm not opposed to counting the Avatars but I can't think of a sensible way to count FE13 Avatar so I'll just consider them something else for now. I'd also give Elincia an honorable mention for kinda-sorta being a Lord in 2 games.

[Tables]

For me, a Lord character fits this critieria:

1. Is playable for a majority of the game

2. Has a class called Lord or something of the equivalent, meaning a unique class that only this character can have

3. Causes a game over for much of the time this character is playable if said character dies.

4. Story has a lot of focus on them.

5. Consistently forced deployment.

6. Has the seize capability in the seize chapters this character is playable in

There's no priority order here, but the character, for me, must fit all of this criteria. I used to say Micaiah is not a Lord, but now she's debatable for me. She's playable for maybe half of RD, not quite the majority of the game.

By that definition, Radiant Dawn's only lord is Micaiah - or nobody at all, depending on how you count 'majority of the game'. Of the game's 43 chapters (depending on how we count Endgame and 1-6, this could be 38 or 43), Ike is playable in 18 of them - well under a majority. Now you could start getting a little more abstract and say 'But Ike's chapters are longer/bigger/etc.' as an argument, but that starts getting a little messy. Micaiah meanwhile is playable in 22 chapters. More than Ike, regardless of your count, but actually over half. Still, I find someone questioning Micaiah's status as a Lord quite surprising. Asides from not being constantly available in the game, what other justification is there? Because that seems like very flimsy ground to be starting from given Radiant Dawn's modular nature.

Awakening's Avatar ALMOST qualifies. But the Tactician class can be used by his/her children as well as DLC Katarina, so...

Uh, why single out Katarina in particular? Every Legacy character gets Tactician. They're all just Avatar based characters, so they more or less work exactly as the Avatar does in terms of body features in appearance, stat caps and classes (a few get extra classes though).

1. Very important/Central in the story.

2. Unique class.

3. Consistant Game over with death (Not counting Lyn mode).

I count Nils and FE9!Elincia, but not FE10!Elincia, because she honestly wasn't important enough there. Important, but it isn't enough due to how poor her availability is. The game doesn't even force her on the endgame.

Nils is a strange case, but he fits this criteria. Besides, it's interesting having a non-combat lord.

Others have already said it, but where has this idea that Nils can't die come from? I even just booted up a savestate from chapters 30+Endgame, and he can die in both. Is there maybe a part of Lyn's mode where his death matters?

(image)

They obviously fail your 1), but forced deployment in final.

Oh, my bad. Forgot about those. So yeah, that's a good point.

Tables- by your definition, why isn't FE10 Elincia a lord? She commands her army in Part 2 (admittedly only for a chapter), is a joint commander with Tibarn in Part 4, and is forced Endgame. She even has her own class and Prf weapon.

Because two of the three things you just said are false, and I required all of the conditions, not just one. She commands an army for all of two chapters. In part 4, Tibarn is soley in charge, Elincia is just baggage forced deployment. In Endgame, she's not forced deployment. She's not even a forced selection to bring into the tower! Ike, Micaiah, Sothe, Sanaki, Kurthnaga, Ena and a Heron, plus any 10 others are the characters you can bring. Elincia is just 'another character'. And of those 7 I just mentioned, only Ike and Micaiah are forced deployment, and while Ike counts as the army commander, Micaiah retains the order abilities, interestingly.

As far as I'm concerned, a Lord is a character that:

1. Is billed as one of the game's main protagonists.

2. Causes a game over upon death.

3. Is forced in all/the majority of the chapters in which they are present.

With those criteria in mind, I'd say that both FE10 Sothe and Elincia are Lords, but FE9 Elincia is not, given the fact that she travels with Ike for most of the game, but does no fighting until the last few chapters.

How does that make Sothe and Elincia Lords? Heck, FE10!Elincia fails all three, if you count the tower as 5 chapters, as she's not really presented as one of the main characters except in part 2, she can die without causing game over in the Tower, and before the Tower is playable (and forced) in four chapters and the tower is 5 chapters she's not forced in, giving 4/9 - less than a majority. Sothe fails the 2nd condition, as he isn't a game over condition in Endgame.

Thing is, I've never, ever deployed Elincia in Endgame... In fact, the only map I've ever deployed her is Chapter 26.

EDIT: I guess her forced Endgame deployment only happens on Hard and JPN Maniac modes.

Uhmm... I might have been wrong about Elincia being forced in Endgame. I seem to remember she's forced in chapter 26 and again in Endgame, but now I think about it, maybe it's your Dragon that's forced there instead? I don't think this changes anything with my definition, though. If anything, it supports it.

Oh, and reading these posts made me realise there's a third, very important condition I forgot! Heck, it's probably the most important one of all. But I was posting really late at night and couldn't think of it (after writing in the post 'three criteria a lord needs' and then not being able to think of the most obvious one...).

3) Always gives a game over upon death.

Death = Game Over was probably much more simple as a definition until FE10 came along, with it's big story-driven cast and huge set of 'must live' characters throughout. Fortunately for us, FE10's Endgame has only two characters who can't die, and they're the two who are most unquestionably the lords.

[Ike-Mike]

That "Lord" is in their class name in their entire class tree somewhere.

[RJWalker]

That "Lord" is in their class name in their entire class tree somewhere.

Then there is no Lord in RD.