School of Hard NOCs - Night 6 ends on Mar. 15 at 9:00 PM HST

[eclipse]

Alright.

Polydeuces/Mango Sentinel needs a sub. First person to contact me gets the spot!

I also need to update the first post to include Kay as a sub, as well.

[Prims]

somebody get bal

[FrostyFireMage]

FFM still has not responded to my request for elaboration.

I'm 16 hours ahead of most people here and I thought the voting process was almost over. Should have read the clock, but you know: scrub lyfe.

[Shinori]

No, you don't just "become uncomfortable" with a wagon you started (Paper was the first person to vote Rajam) simply because it gets big. If you're actually confident in the read, then a bunch of other people also voting him should be a good thing, not a bad thing. And like Prims said, if Paper stopped liking it because he didn't like the manner in which other people were jumping on, then he should have made an attempt to actually look at which votes he didn't like, rather than pursuing something that wasn't connected to the Rajam wagon at all. And although I do think Rajam is scum, I'm not going to assume that while I look into Paperblade. If Rajam is town, maybe Paper just wanted to disassociate himself with that wagon before it got lynched, or anticipated others unvoting because of the speed of the wagon and wanted to be the first to do it. And yeah, if Rajam is scum, then it could easily be an early bus from Paper that he didn't want to have build into a D1 scum lynch. Paperblade busses his buddies all the time as scum.

As to whether I find Rajam or Paperblade worse- why does not making this exact distinction clear matter? I did make it clear that I thought both were scummy. Voting isn't the only way I can commit to a read. As for it being early when I unvoted- it's not how many hours into the game we are that matters; it's how much progress we've made. We were out of RVS and the Randa vote was based on me misreading to begin with. Kaoz's vote just seems kinda off in general.

Also it seems to have suddenly become cool to unvote Rajam just because the wagon grew too fast, which I kind of don't get. At this point I think I do find Paperblade worse because of what I talked about in the first paragraph, but I want Rajam to answer my question. The bit about SB not accepting your doublevote offer applied even before Prims made his case. Then why did you find SB townie before Prims made that case?

Shinori- except SB left after he made that question. It's not like he made the question and then stuck around and kept talking about nothing. Shinori do you have any reads other than SB?

I can kind of see the JB case? dunno will reread in a bit. Don't like the FFM case. It hasn't been explained that his behaviour is scummy; all the reasons people are giving just look like a consequence of him not knowing what to do, which is at the least independent of alignment, and if you do want to ascribe an alignment to it, it's more likely town because newbscum get buddies offering them advice.

I'm partially reading still getting caught up from page 8 but this stuck out to me.

1: SB came back and never commented on that again; yes he left after he made the question but when he came back he acted as if the question didn't even matter by not bringing it up again. If it didn't matter that much to him then why did he ask it in the first place?

2: I have stated multiple reads on multiple other players.

[eclipse]

Eurykins will sub in for Polydeuces, effective in a minute.

[Eurykins]

Yooo~ =]

Will be taking a few minutes to browse through the thread to see what's happenin' so far~ so bear with me please, and as a side note: I cannot and will probably not justify anything that may/may not have been said by Mango/Poly prior to my subbing in for him ('Cause, ya know, I'm not HIM and he's crazy in his own rights). Just a head's up.

[BBM]

The reads you stated were from like >24 hours ago so I wanted to know where you're at on them right now.

Also, while it's true that SB didn't really follow up on the Rajam question, at the time you voted him, he wasn't there. Him not following up on the Rajam question happened after you voted him for coasting. This is retroactive justification that couldn't have applied at the time you made the vote.

@Haze- That really is nitpicking. I meant "first serious vote" since Kaoz's vote certainly wasn't one and your's doesn't look like it was. Do you still not get the Paperblade case? Because I don't see the point in indulging in self-admitted nitpicking.

[Prims]

Eury:

- whoismafia

- thoughts on subbing into a scum slot?

[Radiant Dragon]

RD: we know there's probably at least one scum on a 7 player wagon. It's almost half the playerlist. You also seem to be acting on the assumption that Rajam is town when you do that wagon analysis even though you haven't actually posted what you think of him iirc? Your analysis also seems to arrive at "it's null" way too much and you seem to be discrediting your own reads at points at times when you do arrive at a more conclusive read. The whole post just reads as really non-committal.

I entertained the notion that Rajam was Town for that post to see what logically progressed from that possibility. Actually, I lean more towards the scum side of the spectrum considering him. He continues to dodge all of the questions aimed at him and I can't think of a good reason why he would do this except to try and avoid attention. His aggressive pushing on many of the other players is not a bad thing in a vacuum but side-by-side with his refusal to answer to anyone only increases the image I have of him trying to avoid having to give us anything more to work with regarding him.

The bolded sentence tries to make my post sound worse than it really is (this seems to be a tread with your posts about me, and I don't particularly like it). I mentioned that I had suspicions about two players, JB and Poly, and that I felt Raymond was Town. As for my null reads, two of them are null for reasons out of my control (Kaoz's vote was an RVS vote, Fire Flower has no idea what he's doing). They were listed for completionist's sake. So that really just makes two players that I could have a read on but don't (Haze and BBM).

Unless you're saying that I should be trying to make RVS votes and ignorance into scum-tells. Your vote against me was bad (the intent of my post was very clear) and you complain that people need to have more reads while barely giving any reads of your own! You want a read? I think you could be scum. I'm not voting for you yet because I want to see more from JB first. He needs to say more with the little time he has available to him.

I question why RD considers BBM part of the Rajam wagon despite BBM moving his vote but not Paper, who was an early contributor. Him going "Raymond looks town but I SUCK" rubs me the wrong way, if you're gonna post something you might as well be confident about it, I mean even if you aren't confident in it it does you no favors to beat up yourself in your own post. Although tbh this doesn't make me find him scummy so much as it makes me sad, one Ether is enough. What I would like is for RD to explain why he found the rest of JB's content "bad", especially since JB is RD's main case. Also opinions on Paper please.

BBM was included because he was on the wagon when I started looking into it. He moved his vote while I was still ISOing people. As for what I think of Paper: He voted Rajam due to him pushing Bear (among others) with bad logic, which made sense. He's the first to jump off of the wagon when it gets stupid big because his uncomfortableness with how fast it grew was stronger than his feelings about his Rajam vote, which also makes sense. I agree with his thoughts about SB and JB. Inactivity due to RL is a running theme this game. All in all, I feel relatively good about him.

As for the bit after my thoughts on Raymond, that was me languishing about my terrible play in EO2. I have a very limited experience with NOC games.

Regarding JB, it's kind of ironic that he was moved to vote because there was no risk of hammer when Rajam eventually reached L-1 (not that this really has anything to do with JB, though). Moving on to focus on more legitimate points, I think JB's first post is bad because he gives very little content, and the content he does have is pretty obvious (his points about Rajam and Randa) or had already been stated by another player (his points about the Bear flip and Raymond). He then goes on to complain about SB's three joke posts because...?

His second post is a little better, but his points about Rajam are weak and his 'reads' on everyone else can barely be called that. As I mentioned earlier, I'd like to see more effort coming from JB's direction during the periods he can get on.

I'm not quite convinced with BBM's Paperblade case, either. His only strong point in my opinion is Paper's lack of analysis into Rajam's wagon. He's assuming Paper is scum and then trying to justify why scum!Paper would do what he's done, which seems a bit backward to me.

Fire Flower's vote is also pretty bad. His vote is based on Paper's inactivity (a null tell) and saying Paper gave no reason for disliking the Rajam wagon, when Paper clearly said he was uncomfortable with the wagon due to the speed and magnitude at which it grew.

Rajam, why have you not tried to answer any of the questions that have been directed at you?

Bearclaw, maybe I missed your reasoning but why are you so certain Randa is Town?

[Shinori]

Gonna leave my vote on SB but also dislike JB and Rajam. And gut is telling me to not like Prims.

And I haven't quite read that much of pages 8 or 9, mostly just skimmed. Gonna read more of it later tonight.

[Eurykins]

Eury:

- whoismafia

- thoughts on subbing into a scum slot?

Idk, from what I've read so far (on like... page 5-6?):

- Rajam is, like, the polar opposite of the games where people were all posting WALLS of text. Also seemed to just explode with a bunch of questions and whatnot early on, but aside from it seeming weird to me, I don't think it qualifies as scummy behavior (yet, anyways- still have some pages to go).

- Otherwise, no clue. Lightly skimming the thread, I've noted votals, but minimally. I need to look through whatever content's actually there before I consider who's scum and not.

Eh? Who the heck subbed into a scum slot? I certainly didn't in this game, but thanks for asking. :3

[eclipse]

The "clipsey's head is spinning like mad but her game needs her attention" vocals

Paperblade (4) - BBM, SB, Prims, Frosty Fire Mage

BBM (3) - bearclaw, Kaoz

Rajam (2) - JB, Eurykins

SB (2) - Shinori, Paperblade

JB (2) - Radiant Dragon, Scarlet

Scarlet (1) - Rajam

Prims (1) - Randa

Frosty Fire Mage (1) - Haze

A bit under 24.75 hours remaining in D1, as of this post

Edited February 26, 2014 by eclipse

[FrostyFireMage]

Well actually my vote against Paperblade was more of a gut feeling. Hard to tell what everyone's alignment is at the moment.

[Radiant Dragon]

Well actually my vote against Paperblade was more of a gut feeling. Hard to tell what everyone's alignment is at the moment.

That doesn't make it much better. Do you have some sort of basis for this gut feeling that you would like to share with the class?

What are your thoughts on some of the other players, such as BBM, SB or JB (looking at votals and who has more than one vote on them)? I know that it's difficult to tell what everyone's alignment is (the game wouldn't be fun if it was easy though, would it?) but that's the only way we're able to move forward in this game.

[Eurykins]

From what I can see/tell atm:

- Dragonfang13:

Somethin' weird about his posting is pulling a gut feeling atm. Not sure if it's just the voicing for others, or more than that. Feeling scummy vibes from him currently.

- Shatter:

Eh, that post/vote on Rajam seemed a bit easy, but perhaps it feels worse than it could/should due to the sparse posting with it (which we're to expect, given his last post?). Null, but leaning a bit dirty for now.

- Prims:

....What'sthismadness? I see no overly cynical posting style from Prims, le gasp! Must be scuuuuuuuuuuuuum! D:

(Realtalk: Fairly solid gameplay from what I've seen so far... but that's partially worrying me slightly. Like Prims seems more... careful and almost eloquent with his posting. Wary vibes currently, but keeping at null.)

-SB:

The wagon/case against him coasting early on, gauging by his posts/content overall- seems to have its own small merit. He also doesn't seem as active/pushing for thread progression as I'd expect from town!SB, so that's leaving a rather dubious gut feeling on him. Until more content/posts come about, I'd drop him in the 'slightly dirty' box for now.

- RD:

Though I understand the concept of "there's probably some scum lurking on Rajam's wagon" (given the size of the game and how many votes were on it), post #148 just felt...weird? I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to say 'unnecessary', but it felt more like tossing dust into the air and trying to look productive when not much was really being said? Post #184 felt much more sound/solid compared to the previous post, but the sheer contrast/gap between the two is what bugs me slightly. Null, but has some dust bunnies gathering on the side.

- Fire Flower/FFM:

Seems pretty detached in his responses, and all in all, not much to be seen despite what's been posted so far, regarding reads. Seems to be playing the game without actually participating in it much- scum lurker vibes? Kicking him into "Scummy until proven clean" box.

- BBM:

This seems odd, since I don't recall BBM ever having an issue with a vote sitting on someone, unless it pertained to a wagon closed to being hammered? Seems a bit self-conscious/careful in removing the vote, given that it was technically his first vote/post anyways? Other than that though, I'm not sure how I feel about BBM's posting/content so far. Null for now. ;/

- Kaoz:

It seems unlike Kaoz to miss the Miller aspect of his role PM (gauging by the notion of him being a much more experienced player), but aside from that, nothing questionable to be seen in his posts atm. Null.

((I feel like I missed some people, but argh. Head hurts. Will get back to the reads/whoever I might've missed later.))

So, amongst those listed above:

FFM > RD = Dragonfang13 = SB = Shatter > Everyone else.

##Unvote (I think the vote was on Rajam earlier from before the sub?)

##Vote: FFM

[Eurykins]

Side note: I suppose I should've asked (regarding the names of players I don't recognize here): Who's new/newish to this game, if anyone? Mind derped, and just realized that variable could affect posting content/quality from some in this thread.

[Prims]

Side note: I suppose I should've asked (regarding the names of players I don't recognize here): Who's new/newish to this game, if anyone? Mind derped, and just realized that variable could affect posting content/quality from some in this thread.

FFM and Randa are new, Rajam has experience but on another site, Haze/Raymond/RD are veterans but haven't played in at least a year (not counting RD being around for a single day in EO2).

Like Prims seems more... careful and almost eloquent with his posting.

Elaborate? I'm curious why you'd say this since I'm not trying to do anything different from usual. Also re: bearclaw, see what I said to Randa earlier, usually people get gut reads for a reason. Reading bearclaw's ISO, are you able to put anything about your suspicion on him into words?

Overall Eury's post is OK but doesn't improve my opinion on Poly too much.

RIP Rajam wagon. I am continuously annoyed that he hasn't been contributing since the pressure died.

[Eurykins]

FFM and Randa are new, Rajam has experience but on another site, Haze/Raymond/RD are veterans but haven't played in at least a year (not counting RD being around for a single day in EO2).

Ah! This would explain some of the matters/posting. Thank you for that, Prims.

Elaborate? I'm curious why you'd say this since I'm not trying to do anything different from usual. Also re: bearclaw, see what I said to Randa earlier, usually people get gut reads for a reason. Reading bearclaw's ISO, are you able to put anything about your suspicion on him into words?

1. As stated by others before, the whole 'voicing for others' in terms of replies feels weird/unnecessary to me. Just because you CAN do something (like, hey, people could randomly start claiming full roles on ED1 just 'cause they can!) doesn't mean it does any good to help matters, nor is it usually a good sign, imo.

2. Overall content he has: Mayor voting powers, Randa is town, comments on Rajam's posting style/habits, slight blurb on BBM, and justification of the mayor claim. All in all, not exactly the most productive means of attempting to progress the game, as there is a definite lack of insight regarding everyone else who's been posting thus far.

((And since I know Bear isn't one of the newer players in this game, the amount of muddling with his posting without actually getting more reads/thoughts across seems a bit odd and dirty to me.))

Overall Eury's post is OK but doesn't improve my opinion on Poly too much.

Well, unfortunatey I can't do a whole lot on what's already been posted before I took over, so I'm just doing what I can now with what I have to work with.

RIP Rajam wagon. I am continuously annoyed that he hasn't been contributing since the pressure died.

Agreed.

[Eurykins]

Elaborate? I'm curious why you'd say this since I'm not trying to do anything different from usual.

**Hurdur, forgot to respond to this first half of the comment. I'm so smart. xD

Anyways, Idk. I suppose I'm more used to seeing you being a bit more... crass or otherwise fairly blunt with your posts, as you generally post in a very straightforward manner that basically yells "I give no shits or care in how people take this", or at least that's what I'd been used to seeing in the games I've been in with you. (Though I admit some of the games were when you seemed a bit burnt out/not exactly into the games much themselves, so that may have affected how I noted your responses thus far in this game.)

It's hard to put simply, I suppose. There's just a different feel to your posts this game, as opposed to the past. It's why I can't exactly place whether it gives you a better or worse feel overall, if that makes sense.

[FrostyFireMage]

Scarlet: Hasn't posted much, but doesn't seem particularly noteworthy. He inspects Haze to get him to start posting, then decides on JB because of the latter's lack of posting.

Kaoz: Participates a lot in the early-game, but hasn't posted much if at all since voting for Rajam. Maybe trying to start a bandwagon against him or something? Not really suspicious, otherwise.

BBM: Again, nothing much that blacklists him. He's been participating regularly and seems interested in scoping out the scum.

Shinori: Not many posts but follows Prim's idea to vote for SB. Possible allegiance? I dunno.

Haze: The most noticeable thing I've seen of him is when he votes for Kaoz due to a strong grudge and then he changes to vote against me. Maybe trying to stop what I picked up on? Probably not, but still...

Paperblade: Doesn't really seem committed to a vote, participates a few times but doesn't really say much and votes for SB to avoid wagons.

Something strikes me as off about him.

Bear: He says he is Mayor, changes votes a few times. Haven't got much of a read on him.

JB: Votes for Rajam because he's getting on his nerves?

Prims: Changes vote a few times before settling on Paper. Eh.

Poly: Summarizes what everyone else is saying and votes for Rajam, then doesn't post for a while? Suspicious? Maybe.

SB: Gets on Paper's case because he criticizes the Rajam sheeping without reasoning. Then lurks a bit?

RD: Researches a but then settles on JB for starting Rajam sheeping? Not really

Rajam: Yeh...everything to be said about him has already been said, lol. If he was scummy he would try to draw less attention to himself, IMO.

Randa: Is going with the flow for the moment. And votes for Prims because instinct.

I probably got some details wrong so take it with a grain of salt. Still voting for Paperblade.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Fire Flower

[Eurykins]

Two things:

Poly: Summarizes what everyone else is saying and votes for Rajam, then doesn't post for a while? Suspicious? Maybe.

1. Poly = Me. Subbed in for him, just so you know.

2. Uh, be careful with editing your posts. Generally isn't allowed, as far as I know, but I doubt Eclipse would mod kill you instantly for that. Just a side note.

[Shinori]

You can't edit posts.

[eclipse]

Next person who edits a post gets modkilled. This is the game's final warning.

[BBM]

FFM- most of what you're saying about people is just talking about what they did rather than what alignment doing those things might make them. Take the Raymond read for example. Okay, so he voted JB for his lack of posting. Don't just leave it there. What does that make you think about Raymond?

Shinori, no response to what I said about SB not following up on Rajam happening after your vote?

[Shinori]

Also, while it's true that SB didn't really follow up on the Rajam question, at the time you voted him, he wasn't there. Him not following up on the Rajam question happened after you voted him for coasting. This is retroactive justification that couldn't have applied at the time you made the vote.

I didn't like his posts and part of it was just pressure; after he did come back and make another post I disliked it and that is why I chose to stick with it. I still however considered my first vote serious because in my eyes SB was the scummiest at the time.

Saying "Oh he wasn't there when you voted him" isn't really a good argument. His posts were awful and he did nothing; at that point in time in the game people had posted people were talking people were doing things, he must of had a read of some sort, pretty much anyone who was there at that time did. Once he made another post, like I said, I disliked it, I felt like he didn't follow through with his question previously and his reads weren't that great imo. He didn't comment on too many people and didn't really say much of anything helpful.

I really need to read page 8-9. I've been just sitting here refreshing periodically while playing vidya games.