Let's just talk about Fire Emblem

[Fargo294]

What do you like the most about the series? What do you think IS should focus more on? What would work(game mechanics/story ideas) in future games? Which games make you fanboy/girl about a specific Fire Emblem game? I'd just like to have a conversation with people about FE with no restrictions. LET'S HAVE SOME FUN.

[Rehab]

In other forums/sites, I've seen this topic get titles along the lines of "General [thing] Discussion." You could rename or tag it that if that's the sort of thing you're looking for.

Regarding the direction(s) the series is going (and/or could go) in, I like that the series has recently picked up on some techniques that can be used to draw the player in further and make things more convenient for the player (mixing player control over characters' stories with player customization of their gameplay options via pairing, customizing their ingame avatar to a decent extent, allowing each character to have more than 5 support conversations each playthrough thank fucking christ), but I think it could stand to do more to really modernize itself.

Like, for a series with a range of character power levels as relatively small as fire emblem's,* I think randomizing character growth is questionable, but not telling the player that character growth is random, and how, is inexplicable, and it ought to go away as fast as possible. If giving the growth percents away is too much (the notion of which, going by this website's existence, I'm pretty skeptical of), I think that projecting each individual character's growths with, like, a bar graph or something, is the least bit of improvement they could offer to how they currently tend to go, "this character's class at large tends to have stats like ___ (although some individuals within it differ widely)."

Also, it's one thing to be a bit vague about supports when the only ingame things they affect are situational/temporary stat boosts, and to be sure I think that it'd be optimally polite to give a heads-up if they can change a character's fate via their ending. But when ingame aspects of, and even the existences of potential characters hinge on the mechanic being used in a certain way, as in Awakening and Genealogy, I think at that kind of point you're obligated to not just level with your players and explain the mechanic/implications, but to over-explain it, so they'll have an idea about how the inputs they make will have what effects, via a source other than hearing about optimal children-producing strategies from the internet/friends etc.

(for example, I don't think Chrom's being locked into a wife after a certain chapter is necessarily all that bad. that the player gets no warning of it, and that I can name people whose plans were messed with because of that, is dumb)

My pet idea for a way to marry the gameplay and story aspects of the pairing/child stuff would be to just flat-out tell the player/avatar, "You're playing matchmaker, and who you pair with who will change the abilities of the kids you get. breed well, your future depends on it" Maybe spin it like, "your characters live in a [grim] world where everybody knows their children may have to continue fighting this [horrible] war [which has no end in sight], and it's your authority [and grim duty] to decide how to pair up your soldiers. [Will you fight for love, or eugenics? Coming this winter]"

I also think it kinda shows that the people making it aren't exactly practiced hands at giving the player a lot of control over the characters outside of battle, despite that they've thrown in a couple of choices to make here and there. If they're going to try to sell the player on having a kind of personal ownership stake in a PC, I think they ought to give the player more chances to differentiate their version of the character from the character everybody else makes in more ways than some aspects of their appearance, their fighting style, stat progression, and who they marry. I mean, I'm personally fine with controlling a defined character, who's neither supposed to be me nor in anyway of my own creation, but if you tell me a character is me and then give fewer separate options to differentiate my character from anybody else's than I can count on my fingers, I'll tend to feel a bit short-changed.

Even if they don't bring back the Avatar per se, I think it'd be nice to have the PC choose between coming down on at least one story track or the other. Having another Dragon Age: Origins in the world (in terms of an attempt at character/story self-definition) would be fucking great far as I'm concerned, of course but I'd also be cool with having a pre-defined character choose, say, (breaking out a pet concept again), in a French Revolution kind of situation, between supporting the Nobility/Monarchy, the Revolution, and something approximating the Napoleon.

[spoiler=*by that, I mean]Playable characters in the bulk of the series tend to have their maximum strength be, oh, let's say roughly 5-7 times that of the bottom rung of characters (and sometimes themselves go from one end of that scale to the other). Around the mean strength of a classic mortal hero- far more skilled than the average person, even the average trained person, and quite possibly able to take out a room full of such opponents, but still visibly human. This is compared to series where PCs have HP reserves that go from the dozens to the hundreds to even the thousands, and perhaps go from fighting other people to taking on literal gods (at times without the benefit of special anti-god weaponry) who could've taken on a thousand of their level-1 selves and not have taken one percent of damage.

So in FE, a small difference can go a relatively long way. (I mean, nobody really cares who gets what stat booster in Golden Sun, at least not the way we fucking debate it, do they?)

Edited June 6, 2014 by Rehab

[Alertcircuit]

Stay on handheld. It would cost a lot to make a Wii U Fire Emblem, and I feel like it wouldn't sell the 700,000 needed to produce it. I don't want what happened before where as soon as it hit consoles again, sales started to slowly fizzle out until Awakening may have been the final game. IS should keep on the handheld track for the moment. Not to mention Awakening has pretty sweet graphics anyway.

[Fargo294]

I think Awakening was a big setup for Fire Emblem's future: it could improve from here and fix what didn't work, but it could also set up for a fall in the audience since some newcomers may be expecting a second Awakening. That whole second seal thing might be hard to get away from. And though FExSMT will be for the WiiU, hopefully IS and ATLUS will be able to find a way to make a Fire Emblem work for a console and live up to some expectations, the latter hasn't disappointed me yet anyway.

I recently came up with the idea of knowing a character's growths, and being allowed to manipulate them slightly, reducing some to boost others, for a bit more control over each character like telling them to try to specialize in an area in-game. And I think future support systems should be modeled after Awakening's with large number available, but bonuses only being active when adjacent or keeping the 3 squares but decreasing the support bonus, and maybe even have some characters develop a special attack once reaching the maximum rank, kind of like unlocking a triangle attack. It's kind of hard to find more points to talk about since Rehab got a lot of good points down, but making the games more accessible is a must with having the player aware of the inner mechanics of the game and especially keep it handheld so that you don't have to sit down and play.

Random thought: I wonder if somehow the recruitment of demons in SMT will work into FExSMT, maybe in that some characters will only follow you if you bribe them with something or if you're of a certain alignment. It'd be a nice mix since they're both big parts of the games.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Fargo294

[Anacybele]

Ooh, a general FE thread? Well damn, I have a lot I could say here. :P

But I'll just start off by saying it's definitely my favorite series ever and has been since my first FE game (which was PoR). It made me a huge pairing nut too, and you can find both my list of favorite characters and my favorite pairings in the about me section of my profile.

I also think the series has the best music out of video games. It's just amazing. Whoever IS hires to compose the music is a music god.

Oh, and I love to make headcanons and fan stories for this series because I love it so much. I have so many FE OCs that I've lost count. XD

Stay on handheld.

No thanks. I like handheld FE, don't get me wrong, but I think a Wii U FE could be freaking incredible if made at a good time and the right stuff is done with it. But I do agree that that should wait until the Wii U itself picks up its sales.

Also, PoR was released near the end of the GC's lifespan. Thracia didn't sell well either and it was released near the end of the SNES's days. See a pattern here? RD, being PoR's sequel, easily didn't get a lot of sales either because not alot of people got its prequel. And obviously, it's easier to understand a sequel when you play the prequel. Oh, and RD is so not a newbie friendly game.

I honestly find the Tellius games to have better quality stories, characters, and gameplay than the handhelds, generally, so I hope IS starts going back to home consoles with a couple Wii U titles.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Thor Odinson]

I'm only okay with console FE if there's a version of the same game for handheld anyway

I do not have access to consoles and one 3ds already took too much out of my wallet

[-Cynthia-]

I think FE is just a series suited for handhelds as it does not need the graphics or controller aspects of home consoles. It's similar to Pokemon in the sense that it's turn based and Pokemon main titles are handhelds as well.

[Anacybele]

Pokemon still has home console titles though. :/

Edited April 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[-Cynthia-]

Hence 'main titles'. If there's a Fire Emblem Snap! spinoff or something I guess the Wii U could have that.

[Anacybele]

lolwut, FE doesn't even have that kind of technology. xP

Anyway, even though they're not main series titles, the Pokemon home console games still seem to be pretty well-liked regardless. FE, whether spinoff or main series, can still have home console titles.

Also, I don't believe any game really NEEDS to stay on one kind of console or another. The developers choose which ones they WANT to put the games on. And I think FE has been better on home consoles. I think the Tellius games are the best, and isn't FE4 liked a lot too? It's an SNES game.

[Elieson]

Obv Cynthia was joking about Fire Emblem Snap! coming soon to a console near you.

I personally think that the mechanics and gameplay of 10 were good, but it was SO POORLY EXECUTED that much of the fun of the game was ripped right out of it.

The GBA mechs had a strong system, granted it lacked skills in general. I think 13 was on the right track. We fangaam over supports, and now that we were given a game practically built around them, all we do is bitch about it??

I'd prefer to see this franchise stay handheld. You can't carry around your fe10army and play it on the subway, and that was the joy of a time-limitless turn based combat system. Pokemon stadium and Colosseum weren't any different than visually appealing DS games, and I prefer that in my pocket too.

[Anacybele]

Pff, I play home console games more often than handheld. Well, these days I've been playing more handheld, but that's because I've already played everything I have for Wii and Wii U and I'm still in the process of playing some stuff I have for 3DS. But when the Wii U gets more titles, I'll be going right back to it and letting my 3DSs collect dust.

And even then, I'll replay games like Zelda: Skyward Sword and the Tellius FE games once in awhile.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I'm only okay with console FE if there's a version of the same game for handheld anyway

I do not have access to consoles and one 3ds already took too much out of my wallet

This. Console FE didnt do so well anyway. Its best suited for handheld for reasons guys already said. Just like its not necessary to have Ace Attorney on a console. Im probably not going to be using game consoles post-Wii anyway due to financial reasons. (and id rather get a new abacus. Goat Simulator and Crusader Kings 2 call my name on the wind~) So leik, yeah. Handheld FE pl0x. Ive been on the go more than i have been in a very long time. I like to be able to play my stuff on the go too.

I think FE is just a series suited for handhelds as it does not need the graphics or controller aspects of home consoles. It's similar to Pokemon in the sense that it's turn based and Pokemon main titles are handhelds as well.

Yarp.

Pff, I play home console games more often than handheld.

And? Thats not what the market is saying in terms of FE. It just plain works better on handheld. You might like Tellius loads, i like Tellius loads, but for the future of FE, people would rather it be on handheld. FE doesnt need AAA Console Budget to be a good game. Pokemon is so popular because anyone can pick it up and play while sitting in between a lawyer and that old Korean lady on the MUNI, on your way to work. People like that a lot. I like that a lot.

[Anacybele]

I don't think Pokemon is popular because it's a handheld game. I think it's popular because it's god damn POKEMON. Mario and Zelda are insanely popular, yet their home console games do just as well as their handhelds, if not better.

And I don't buy the you-can-take-it-anywhere excuse anymore because many vehicles these days have a TV inside them and allow you to hook up a Wii to it or something. And hotel rooms have HD TVs these days that you can do the same on.

Also, you apparently didn't see the post where I said PoR was released at the end of the GC's lifespan. Just as Thracia was released at the end of the SNES's. And since RD is PoR's sequel, it's no surprise it also sold poorly.

I've seen many people say that PoR and RD had the best stories, gameplay, and characters. Especially here. That tells me FE needs to be on home consoles more than handheld.

And personally, I've been at home more than on the go. So I hardly ever NEED a handheld system. I also like being able to play on a big screen TV on a comfy couch, especially if I'm sick.

Home console FE >>>>>>>>>> handheld FE.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Loki Laufeyson]

I think it's popular because it's god damn POKEMON.

Hi. I recall when Pokemon came out. It came out on a bloody handheld. A handheld which was cheaper than a console and parents could buy and hand their kids Pokemon and they would just zone out in the car playing it. This was the draw for parents. The draw for the kids/players was that it was portable and all the cool monsters and creatures to collect and battle each other. And that card game was neat and so was that cartoon show. Kids could play that shit with their friends anywhere. THATS why Pokemon got a foothold out here in the US to begin with. Not cuz it was already a brand name. It had to earn that shit. Adults still buy Pokemon cuz they were the same kids who had it back in 1998. And because, SURPRISE!!! Its still on handheld to suit their busy lives.

Fire Emblem got a foothold with Smash and the GBA. Tactical RPG with colorful characters and stuff on the go. This is why people bought it.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson

[Anacybele]

The draw for the kids/players was that it was portable and all the cool monsters and creatures to collect and battle each other.

Exactly. Not simply because it was a handheld game. And these days, I find that a home console and handheld console cost the same. At least from Nintendo.

Fire Emblem got a foothold with Smash and the GBA. Tactical RPG with colorful characters and stuff on the go. This is why people bought it.

In the US. It already had a bunch of home console games in Japan. And guess what? That's how the series started too. On a home console. And it continued to stay on home consoles until the GBA came around. FE was made for it because it was a successful little gadget. Not because it could be taken anywhere. FE wouldn't have even gotten so far as to make it on handhelds if it wasn't for its home console titles.

And like I said, the quality of the story and characters and to an extent, the gameplay differs greatly between the handheld FEs and the Tellius games. I find that Tellius has an excellent, deep story overall, but that of Awakening and FE7 bore me to tears. Sacred Stones is pretty decent though. But it still has identical gameplay to FE7 with the sole addition of branched promotions. RD added a bunch of new and interesting gameplay features like ledges and unique chapter objectives. But Awakening took that all away again and also took away affinities, light magic, the trinities of magic, etc which were all cool. RD also had a longer, deeper main story, and it still wasn't even quite as good as PoR's. But I feel that that's because it should've been longer still, or had a smaller cast of characters.

You can't make a huge game like this on a handheld console. The Wii U is more capable of that, even if the 3DS is pretty damn advanced for a gadget that's smaller than a football. It's just plain easier to create a deeper, longer story, and gameplay with a bunch of cool ways to strategize. And this would allow for deeper characters because there's time for development. And there would probably be room for DLC if IS desired it again too.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Bishop Rodan]

The 3DS is the most successful handheld of its generation by far. The Wii U is doing dismally and is basically dead in the water. If even a juggernaut franchise like Mario can't make a dent, a niche genre like Fire Emblem would be doomed before it even started.

[Baldrick]

Loki, why do you care so much? :P

This series might be only one bad game away from oblivion. The fact is, the best way to ensure sales remain good is to stay on handheld.

1. The DS sold better than the contemporary console competitors, and the 3DS is on track to continue that trend. The more units sold, the bigger the market you have for your game because nobody will buy a game they can't play.

2. All anecdotal evidence aside, handheld consoles are more convenient than home consoles. They are smaller, practical to play in a moving vehicle, require less equipment, can be moved around and set up quicker, etc.

3. The only advantage home consoles can really provide is superior graphics. FE is an SRPG series; it does not need any fancy graphics, just good gameplay and story.

[Anacybele]

The 3DS is the most successful handheld of its generation by far. The Wii U is doing dismally and is basically dead in the water. If even a juggernaut franchise like Mario can't make a dent, a niche genre like Fire Emblem would be doomed before it even started.

Well duh, of course it would be bad to release an FE for the Wii U NOW. That's why I said to wait until the Wii U picks up sales.

Also. the Wii was the best selling console of its time. I have no doubt that the Wii U will eventually follow suit as soon as the big guns come out for it, ie Zelda, Smash Bros. a Galaxy-esque Mario, etc.

3. The only advantage home consoles can really provide is superior graphics.

And a bigger screen. And more content (meaning more potential for a deeper story and stuff, like I said). And they're more ideal for parties.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Loki Laufeyson]

Loki, why do you care so much? :P

This series might be only one bad game away from oblivion. The fact is, the best way to ensure sales remain good is to stay on handheld.

1. The DS sold better than the contemporary console competitors, and the 3DS is on track to continue that trend. The more units sold, the bigger the market you have for your game because nobody will buy a game they can't play.

2. All anecdotal evidence aside, handheld consoles are more convenient than home consoles. They are smaller, practical to play in a moving vehicle, require less equipment, can be moved around and set up quicker, etc.

3. The only advantage home consoles can really provide is superior graphics. FE is an SRPG series; it does not need any fancy graphics, just good gameplay and story.

oh u. Eat my dump To answer the question, i do give a shit mostly cuz im pretty much giving up on consoles. It would be nice to have one of my favorite franchises remain on handhelds where it belongs.

Yes sales. Nintendo handhelds tend to do very well. You are right that this series might get the axe and be nothing more than a relic if a new FE sells like Shadow Dragon did. Why risk that on a console with a huge budget? Easier to have a smaller budget and release it on a handheld. That way the loss wont be as much.

That's why I said to wait until the Wii U picks up sales.

<.< Thats assuming it does. >.>

Things look really really bleak for the Wii U.

[Bishop Rodan]

Well duh, of course it would be bad to release an FE for the Wii U NOW. That's why I said to wait until the Wii U picks up sales.

Also. the Wii was the best selling console of its time. I have no doubt that the Wii U will eventually follow suit as soon as the big guns come out for it, ie Zelda, Smash Bros. a Galaxy-esque Mario, etc.

I think you mean if the Wii U picks up sales - and that's a big if. The Wii U's sales have been anaemic for over a year. Nintendo is hemorrhaging money on the console. The PS4 sold more within a month than the Wii U had in its lifetime. It's not looking good for the console, and consideing Mario 3D World is Galaxy-esque in terms of being a big 3D Mario platformer, I'm not sure any "big gun" will save the Wii U now, and its situation only deteriorates as time goes on.

If the Wii U manages a miraculous turnaround, that's one thing. But to treat that as a given is either naïve, foolish, or both, and I wouldn't bet my money on it.

[Elieson]

Why would the WiiU pick up in sales? With the next gen coming out in like 2 years or so, the WiiU will be outdated before it becomes popular out of the blue.

Ana, do you really think the average american (or other nationality) family supplies their children with Wii's and Xbox360s for their backseat luxury mobile? I bought a 3DS for my son so he could play games on the go, on vacation,if the power goes out, and so that he could interact with others at clubs and such. I don't want him lugging around his Wii (which got damaged and I ended up shelling out $$ to replace it). Many families feel this way too.

A more affordable gaming system that hosts games properly designed to function well on it is far more appealing to the general public, and game selection makes a big deal too.

People play CoD and LoL and Smash bros competitively on console. Why? Because they function better for what they are and what they demand. Fire Emblem doesn't need a 42" screen to be fun and playable, so it sells well on a system with less resources. Its essentially a waste to have Fire Emblem exclusively on a graphically intense medium when so much of the game itself is staring at stat screens and planning moves on a grid.

Unless you dig playing Chess on the big screen, you aren't looking for fire emblem to be designed for a console. The niche audience is, too niche, and sales will reflect that, hurting the business, thus, hurting the franchise.

[Elieson]

Double post by accident. Please delete

Edited April 2, 2014 by Elieson

[Fargo294]

CRAP I MADE A FIGHTS THREAD ABANDON SHIP

In the US. It already had a bunch of home console games in Japan. And guess what? That's how the series started too. On a home console. And it continued to stay on home consoles until the GBA came around. FE was made for it because it was a successful little gadget. Not because it could be taken anywhere. FE wouldn't have even gotten so far as to make it on handhelds if it wasn't for its home console titles.

And like I said, the quality of the story and characters and to an extent, the gameplay differs greatly between the handheld FEs and the Tellius games. I find that Tellius has an excellent, deep story overall, but that of Awakening and FE7 bore me to tears. Sacred Stones is pretty decent though. But it still has identical gameplay to FE7 with the sole addition of branched promotions. RD added a bunch of new and interesting gameplay features like ledges and unique chapter objectives. But Awakening took that all away again and also took away affinities, light magic, the trinities of magic, etc which were all cool. RD also had a longer, deeper main story, and it still wasn't even quite as good as PoR's. But I feel that that's because it should've been longer still, or had a smaller cast of characters.

Yeah, it was on a home console in the beginning, but being handheld makes the grind a lot easier. PoR and RD knew they'd have to be big, and while the latter may not have triumphed in that area, it still understood that nonetheless. Both handhelds and consoles have their necessities, console games tend to focus more on being bigger, and handhelds focus on making things simpler(from what I've played an imo) and, by proxy, more accessible. Timing is very important, and if FExSMT ends up coming in too late, it'd be detrimental to IS like the other games that came out at the end of its life cycle like you said. I really would like to see another epic FE game, and I think FExSMT will deliver, but ATLUS (judging from the persona series and not the SMT series) seems to take time with their games like with P4 coming after the PS3 came out and the same with P5 coming around spring(to us) next year, so FExSMT coming near the end may be hurtful to future console FE games.

I felt RD should have focused much less on Ike since I had the most fun with Micaiah's team. Not to say I didn't have fun with Ike, I just wanted to explore the new characters more.

Well duh, of course it would be bad to release an FE for the Wii U NOW. That's why I said to wait until the Wii U picks up sales.

Also. the Wii was the best selling console of its time. I have no doubt that the Wii U will eventually follow suit as soon as the big guns come out for it, ie Zelda, Smash Bros. a Galaxy-esque Mario, etc.

And since the next Smash Bros. is coming out soon, hopefully the consumers will get to buying it on console and not handheld so they can beat the shit out of their friends in person.

Everything Elie said.

That too.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Fargo294

[Baldrick]

ITT People argue more eloquently than Baldrick

Also, PoR was released near the end of the GC's lifespan. Thracia didn't sell well either and it was released near the end of the SNES's days. See a pattern here?

Well duh, of course it would be bad to release an FE for the Wii U NOW.

That's why I said to wait until the Wii U picks up sales.

"The console FEs sold badly because they were released late in the system's lifespan"

"In order to sell well, a Wii U FE shouldn't be released until late in the system's lifespan"

???

And more content (meaning more potential for a deeper story and stuff, like I said).

That would be nice, but ultimately FE is about the gameplay. Awakening has arguably the worst story in the series but its gameplay is apparently top-notch. Not to mention they could get all the potential they need by packaging the game with an illustrated novelisation.

And they're more ideal for parties.

If they made a Mario Party style spinoff, I agree it should be on the Wii U