Big NOCers - Game Over

[Conqueror]

Yeah okay, I realized that with the miller flipped, mafia wouldn't be able to push Kaoz anyway since cop claim. It just surprised me since he was one of my top suspects heading into the day though.

##Vote: Strege

Pretty much agree with what BBM just said. Also, after Strege said he was feeling better about SB yesterday, he pretty much went nowhere with that and ended up sitting on SB anyway. Re: Manix interactions. He has a lot of points where he calls Manix scummy, but it's always an edge suspicion and he gets sudden changes of heart about not being stoked about a Manix lynch. I find this worse than BBM's outright defense of Manix, even if I called him out on it yesterday and he didn't listen. :V I've been there before.

BBM was kind of a wildcard heading for me into the night, because his actions could fit scum but I think he's town for tonal reasons. The defense on Manix is consistent at least and he extended it to other people (like eclipse).

Not sure who a third pick for scum would be a this stage. I tend to think that Manix's weird jab at Raymond means they're not buddies together, but I don't know how Raymond plays.

[BBM]

Yes, I hard defended Manix because of his roleclaim.

I've also subbed in with 24 hours left in D1 and proceeded to get my buddy with no prior votes or suspicion on them lynched. My scum meta isn't so predictable as "defend my buddies".

Quick skim of Raymond's ISO confirms my feeling he is scum. He pushes Manix hard near the beginning of D2, but then drops him because he feels like the case is going nowhere. Firstly, this is an odd sentiment to express because just earlier he'd said that he wished his vote could count twice (sorry not everybody is me!!!), which implies a very strong suspicion. Dropping something like that that because the case "isn't going anywhere" seems off, partly because that phrase by itself is really ambiguous. Does he mean that nobody else seems to believe him? Not really true- j00 was also voting him IIRC and if that was the reason, then he should have jumped back on Manix when there was support for it. Instead, similarly to Strege, he pussies out of actually consolidating on him, putting him not just behind SB but also Refa in terms of consolidation.

[Conqueror]

Also BBM re: my tone. You can check my most recent town game on MotK; my tone there is pretty similar to what is now. It's mostly a side effect of being busy.

[Conqueror]

Not sure who a third pick for scum would be a this stage. I tend to think that Manix's weird jab at Raymond means they're not buddies together, but I don't know how Raymond plays.

*But I don't know how Manix plays.

[Prims]

Day 3.1 - Votals

Strege (3): BigBangMeteor, Conqueror, ????????

BigBangMeteor (2): Refa, Elieson

Not Voting: eclipse, j00 SB, Scarlet, Strege

You have 71 hours and 12 minutes left in the day. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Elieson]

I looked around for indication on a Kaoz target last night, and Kaoz's posts implied that he thought Manix was town a bit moreso than anything else. I can't pick up anything else regarding a Kaoz-check myself.

also can we stop referring to our personal meta now? SB was cute when he did it earlygame but it's getting old fast. Everyone's doing it now, and it does absolutely nothing to help coordinate efforts in hunting.

[Elieson]

And lolkaoz thinking Manix was town by a scan.

[Conqueror]

My personal meta is to lynch everyone who disagrees with me.

I don't see how a cop would get a town result on a rolecop/backup?

[BBM]

There was a time when I was dedicated enough about mafia to go read past games solely for the purpose of improving my read on someone. Sadly, that time has passed.

Regardless, I wouldn't lynch you before Strege or Raymond and hopefully if they're not scum you'll be dead by then

@Elie- self-meta isn't scummy when you bring it up as a direct defence to someone using meta against you because there's no other way to defend against a meta case. It's only scummy if you do it unprompted and even then that's kind of questionable.

Also, did Kaoz claim Cop somewhere himself???

[BBM]

With regards to Manix making jabs at his buddies- he's fully capable of that IMO. Bard hosted a game here relatively recently where Manix and his buddy staged a slapfight for most of D1.

Then there was this game (admittedly a long time ago now) where he'd rolled scum for like the 5th in a row so he got tired and went into D2 with the intention to sacrifice himself and let himself get hard-bussed by most of his team.

[eclipse]

Perhaps we're dealing with a lawyer?

I'm dead tired, and will deal with this game tomorrow.

[Strege]

##Vote: Strege

Strege is where the scum is. His posts wrt Manix smell of scum distancing- on both days he talks a lot about how Manix is suspicious but when push comes to shove doesn't consolidate on him on either of the days and has him as a perpetual minor scumread for no good reason.

I was leaning town on Refa anyways and Manix pushing him as a counterwagon solidifies it in my mind.

Can you cite specific sources, reference my other content, or present a case at all? (Like I'm playing pretty badly so it shouldn't be hard.) Manix was a scummy because of the things he lacked, not the things he had, which is why the scumread was minor and I wasn't inclined to lynch him over others.

##Vote: Strege

Pretty much agree with what BBM just said. Also, after Strege said he was feeling better about SB yesterday, he pretty much went nowhere with that and ended up sitting on SB anyway. Re: Manix interactions. He has a lot of points where he calls Manix scummy, but it's always an edge suspicion and he gets sudden changes of heart about not being stoked about a Manix lynch. I find this worse than BBM's outright defense of Manix, even if I called him out on it yesterday and he didn't listen. :V I've been there before.

Did you not get my SECRET MESSAGE? Also, my change of heart on Manix was for literally 9 minutes before I realized that I suck at rolespec so I'm not sure how that's relevant (I can't remember any other flip-flops so I don't understand the pluralization there). I admit my reads did kind of go nowhere.

I have an exam today so I need to bounce. I feel pretty bad about eclipse since, on a skim of her ISO, 95% of her mentioning Manix is to comment on how she doesn't like or understand a case on him, or explains his activity. I hopped through a few other ISOs but I can be more comprehensive later.

In the mean time, be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong.

[Strege]

oh may as well do this also

##Vote: eclipse

[Elieson]

Did you not get my SECRET MESSAGE?

In the mean time, be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong.

Elaborate on this please.

Also there's somethign I need to check on regarding a certain result that I forgot to get to back at Daystart. Prepping SF3M drained me hard last night

Also BBM, who'd you target last night with your PR thing (Not like it matters, I'm just curious really, since it hasn't appeared yet).

[Scarlet]

Also Elieson, I think it's kind of obvious that the OCer is Scarlet? Like he said he'd target you yesterday.

Yeah, in case my crumbs weren't blatant enough, I'm the neighbor.

I targeted him N1, actually.

Quick skim of Raymond's ISO confirms my feeling he is scum. He pushes Manix hard near the beginning of D2, but then drops him because he feels like the case is going nowhere. Firstly, this is an odd sentiment to express because just earlier he'd said that he wished his vote could count twice (sorry not everybody is me!!!), which implies a very strong suspicion. Dropping something like that that because the case "isn't going anywhere" seems off, partly because that phrase by itself is really ambiguous. Does he mean that nobody else seems to believe him? Not really true- j00 was also voting him IIRC and if that was the reason, then he should have jumped back on Manix when there was support for it. Instead, similarly to Strege, he pussies out of actually consolidating on him, putting him not just behind SB but also Refa in terms of consolidation.

Wait what

The "I wish I could make my vote count twice" was because Manix was seriously pissing me off more than anything. I really hate it when I'm in an argument with someone and they act as if I the only reason for why I could possibly think they're wrong is not actually having read what they wrote.

As for the Manix case not going anywhere, it didn't seem likely at that point for a Manix lynch to actually happen, and then Conq announced that he had a dayvig and named Manix as a real possibility to shoot, so I was kinda hoping for that to happen and focused my attention elsewhere.

I would have moved my vote back to Manix had he not been hammered before I had a chance to. I wasn't exactly in a rush since he was already at L-1 and I was going to be around all the way until phase-end, and I stand by the fact that I wanted a Refa lynch over a Manix lynch because I was feeling worse about the former by that point.

With that out of the way, let me check a few things before I put down a vote.

[j00]

First things first

I actually prepared a picture after D2 but I left it at some other computer along with my tablet so you get the inferior mouse-version of this masterpiece

Strege, you were on SB most of last phase, what happened to that read? SB is probably the only one I wouldn't give additional town cred to for voting scum, considering he's infamous for bussing.

I'll have to take a look on eclipse's ISO myself, I know she's mentioned Manix a lot D1 but I can't remember her doing it that much D2

vote'll come after reading

[j00]

also I don't see any other reason for mafia killing Kaoz other than them rolecopping him D1, a lot of people were getting sceptical about him towards the end. I agree that Elieson probably wouldn't throw that line against him at night if he'd decided to kill him.

[Elieson]

Strege, you were on SB most of last phase, what happened to that read? SB is probably the only one I wouldn't give additional town cred to for voting scum, considering he's infamous for bussing.

Actually, that's a good point, though I'm more concerned not about him not voting for SB, but him voting eclipse out of the blue, when he's been SB mode so hard.

[j00]

And lolkaoz thinking Manix was town by a scan.

Did he imply anything like that? He said he had reasons to believe Manix' claim, which turned out to be bullshit and Kaoz was just as confusing as Bal honestly

[j00]

Actually, that's a good point, though I'm more concerned not about him not voting for SB, but him voting eclipse out of the blue, when he's been SB mode so hard.

My point was that he dropped the case completely and voted eclipse because of her Manix interactions, which, still looking at her ISO, I can't really find much of in D2. 95% is quite an exaggeration at least

[j00]

Kaoz is an interesting kill.

Anyone want to claim roleblocking me last night? Because my action failed.

You have a night role?

And, yea. Remember when I was "delayed"? my action occured this past night x2 (my N1 target finally happened, and my N2 target went through)

wait, you're a role blocker too Elie? eclipse fullclaimed ninja roleblocker, and with SB delaying actions we've got 3 functional roleblockers

[Elieson]

I'm actually a something else that can block (hence my confusion on the sbclips claims), but yea I'm jailor.

So I'm looking at SB being a buff (strange what with a dead motivator), eclipse being a second miller, and myself being a protection. Though I have insomnia too, which I don't even know why

[j00]

- top tier
Prims (baby harp seal)

me (I'm having fun with these PR's)

Conq (can kill people)

-high tier

Scarlet (OC in NOC is fun)

Manix (rolecop/backup is pretty strong)

- this could lead to some interesting posts tier
BBM (give PRs to someone who can use them next time tho)

- these roles would've probably been cool if we got something useful out of it before they died tier
Paperblade (inventor)

Kaoz (cop of some sort which had reasons to believe the vanilla chekcer claim)

- okay tier

Refa (announcer)
Bal (why not announce miller?)

- are all these roleblockers or what tier

SB (delayer/empowerer)

eclipse (ninja roleblocker)

Elieson (blocked Conq?)

- fake tier

Manix (vanilla checker huh)

[Elieson]

Hit post too soon

Insomnia Jailor is my full claim

[j00]

uh, I don't actually think any of the blockers are scum, so I'm not gonna rolespec this. Thing is, all of you are proven, except for eclipse, who had no reason to claim and initiate a 1-vs-1 if she was scum. Scarlet's also proven, but I'll have to read him again because I don't like how he ignored the Manix wagon at the end either. Manix didn't improve his content ever so I'm not sure how both Refa and SB got that much worse than him.