Big NOCers - Game Over

[Conqueror]

I've been thinking about this. Before I go any further, I think it'd be a good idea to claim what I got from Strege. It's essentially a self-protect, but with infinite uses and infinite shots. The catch is that I have to forgo any night actions to use it.

People have suggested Fabricator, in which case it wouldn't actually protect? Either way I'm thinking that maybe the item is a little too good to be true. Even more so if Strege can create more than one of these (as far as I can tell he hasn't said anything one way or another about that but, "Blacksmith" is suggestive of such). Alternatively, it could be real, but with all the claimed roleblockers running around, I'm thinking the mafia probably has a strongman/strongwilled member, which would make this some sort of weird vanillizer.

Anyway, that's that with the role stuff. I'll get back to this thread in a bit, so I'll be looking over Strege and eclipse again. I don't think eclipse's claim makes sense from her as scum, but I would like to see what she's thinking about at this stage.

Re: Elie: he's as good as confirmed town to me. I don't see a mafia roleblocker/jailkeeper targetting a claimed dayvig when there are so many other targets with night roles.

[Strege]

I've been thinking about this. Before I go any further, I think it'd be a good idea to claim what I got from Strege. It's essentially a self-protect, but with infinite uses and infinite shots. The catch is that I have to forgo any night actions to use it.

People have suggested Fabricator, in which case it wouldn't actually protect? Either way I'm thinking that maybe the item is a little too good to be true. Even more so if Strege can create more than one of these (as far as I can tell he hasn't said anything one way or another about that but, "Blacksmith" is suggestive of such). Alternatively, it could be real, but with all the claimed roleblockers running around, I'm thinking the mafia probably has a strongman/strongwilled member, which would make this some sort of weird vanillizer.

Anyway, that's that with the role stuff. I'll get back to this thread in a bit, so I'll be looking over Strege and eclipse again. I don't think eclipse's claim makes sense from her as scum, but I would like to see what she's thinking about at this stage.

Re: Elie: he's as good as confirmed town to me. I don't see a mafia roleblocker/jailkeeper targetting a claimed dayvig when there are so many other targets with night roles.

Elie said his jail was delayed N1, and hit you N2.

It would be bad for me to fullclaim but I'll say that there is a small addition to my role related to the main bit (dat vest thing). I only have one vest, which is a point I may be able to convince you of: I'm Linus, from Peanuts, and my vest is flavoured as a blanket. If you didn't get the item flavour then you can look at my my crumb in post 480: "Conq! nobias but I don't think you should shoot me. I'll be around later but I gotta wash my sheets n'stuff." I realized later that I made it too subtle in case I'd been redirected so I started pointing it out in ALL CAPS. lol I'm such a nub this game. I assume that's also why my PR is to quote scripture. Point is I only have one and was actively trying to tell you that I gave it to you, which is pretty terrible play for a Fabricator since you'd figure it out after a phase or two.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” and a mo'freakin recurring BPV. Sucka MC's ain't shit.

[BBM]

;_; I can't remember Strege ever crumbing his role before as any alignment. But with a Hooker, Jailer, and Delay + Empower I don't see why we need this super-protect.

[Strege]

As an aside, I was bitter about something else and think I let it slip into my post a few posts back. I apologize. I also recognize me calling out low activity is kind of dumb but it is an issue.

Elie! Could you be more descriptive about your read on me as well?

BBM! I've never crumbed a role, but this is what I meant by SECRET MESSAGE. Are you assuming the other "protective" roles are town?

[Conqueror]

Well, the item sure is a blanket. I guess that explains why it has a weird name?

I missed the crumb; it was way too subtle for me.

Roles are too hard.

eclipse, what made you choose Manix over SB at deadline yesterday?

[Conqueror]

Elie said his jail was delayed N1, and hit you N2.

Right. So either he targetted me N1 (when the condition I stated in thread wasn't fulfilled) or he targetted me N2 (proven dayvig). Unless he was going solely for ~*cred*~, there'd be better targets for him as scum, like people who can had a claimed role at night.

[Strege]

##Vote BBM

I wanna check on something, and I also wanna look into BBM's hard defense of Manix BECAUSE I WAS ENTERTAINED, and also his D2 case on Strege involving pretty much just Sheeping+Metamon. I don't really wanna look into it more though, I'm just saying that because I find it to be a neat combination of red flags?

I don't understand what things you plan on delving more into, and I feel like the points on BBM could use more support. I think everyone else has presented more of a case than this for or against BBM and I, and I'm not getting the sense that you actually care who gets lynched today. :\

[Conqueror]

SB = BBM > Refa > everyone else > Conq = Elie = CLIPSEY!

For now,

##InviteOver: BBM

for pressure.

Also: maybe I missed your explanation, but where is your town read on j00 coming from?

##Vote: Raymond

Preliminary vote while I get through the rest of the thread.

[Strege]

Right. So either he targetted me N1 (when the condition I stated in thread wasn't fulfilled) or he targetted me N2 (proven dayvig). Unless he was going solely for ~*cred*~, there'd be better targets for him as scum, like people who can had a claimed role at night.

Oh yeah, derp. I'm used to N0 games and thought it was a blind shot. iirc it was Vhaltz who blocked you then, which is weird considering he was townreading you.

Elie, can you confirm if you blocked Conq?

"do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." ikr

[eclipse]

Missed this yesterday.

I'm thinking about the "1v1" of eclipse and SB yesterday as well, in terms of reads. Honestly, I can't find scum or town benefit in it -- anyone have thoughts? I need to go to bed.

If I was scum, I'd benefit from keeping quiet, as an Elieson lynch was being considered. As I was the first to claim, I'd be risking everything. . .to deflect a lynch and possibly place it on myself. Unless you think I'm Manix's buddy, and playing some insane gambit where he grabs my role after death, this doesn't make sense.

SB didn't need to claim the delay - if he were scum, he could probably claim non-consecutive empowerer, which I think would've been sufficient to keep him from being lynched. I'd say that the non-consecutive empowerer claim would be more likely, especially since mafia had rolecop on their side (which means that there's less of a chance that town can prove whether or not he's lying). Thus, his full claim make very little sense from a scum PoV.

I think people might be forgetting that eclipse was my secondary scumread and all of my reads were kind of bad to begin with. I feel like people think I was going on SB hard because my arguments were different and I had to spend a lot of time defending their validity, or because I voted him all phase (which brings us back to point A: my reads were kind of bad).

Which eclipse case?

I've had a small amount of time to dig through the thread since D3 started, and you're the only person who's turned up scummy for me. If I'm tunnelling you otherwise, I'm sorry.

Right-o.

Strege: Is your PR for every post, for every X number of posts, or something else? I see a few posts with no scripture, and yet BBM's vote is moving where he wants it to (as opposed to being stuck on you).

With that out of the way. . .I'll attempt to reply to things. . .it's too early for bed, but I'm sleepy. . .

Here's my introduction to Process of Elimination - this isn't fluff, because it seems that at least one person has no idea how I came to the conclusion that BBM/Strege should get my vote.

- Conq's role is essentially an unblockable kill (my role sure as hell doesn't block day actions); if he were mafia, they'd basically have a strongkill on top of their night kill. There's also that ruling that we can't vote for No Lynch, which makes me think that he's town, as he gets a shot on NL. The biggest problem I had with his content was mid-D1 when he made a case against Manix that I couldn't comprehend. Between his role and his content, I don't think he should be lynched.

- Raymond's targets, given his role, makes sense (the neighbors topic has more elaboration on this, and it's for a reason). I don't have that much of a problem with his content (or what I can understand of it, comprehension's getting difficult), and it looks like he has enough sense to keep the majority of his frustration out of his posts.

- Thanks to the stuff in the neighbors topic, I came to the conclusion at the end of D2 that Elieson was most likely town (because my PoC role and his phase delay didn't make sense). His role seems to act like a better version of mine, since I don't stop my targets from being killed. Content-wise, I felt that his case on BBM was getting out of hand, in terms of emotion. Would like him to clarify his read on me, since I was the genius that suggested putting pressure on Kaoz. ;/

- I had Refa down as scum for the longest time, but then Manix flipped. That was enough to shift my read back to null (bussing exists, which is why it's not a full town read). What I've seen of his role is null; announcers can easily exist on both sides. I think he'd be a good lynch for associative reads (me/SB), but lynching someone solely for that doesn't seem like a good idea.

- j00's in-thread content (especially after D1) has me leaning town; there WAS that L-1 scuffle on Strege earlier in this day phase, which is why this isn't a solid town read. There's also something unrelated to the current game that I'd like to address postgame regarding that tablet; someone remind if I forget about it.

- Content-wise, SB seems. . .scattered (would like a response to this, for one). Due to the D2 stuff I outlined earlier in this post, I don't think he's mafia. Third party? How the heck is he supposed to win with that kind of role?

- LYNCH ME DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE'RE NOT IN DANGER OF UNIVERSAL LOSS, ETC. Prims would have a fit if I did that, especially since my role PM says town.

That leaves BBM/Strege as most likely to be scum. Strege's recent content is a pain in the neck to read - walls ain't fun to deal with when the words are swimming (I'm totally guilty of this, and I'm not sorry). Nothing's bugging me about BBM's content at the moment.

eclipse, what made you choose Manix over SB at deadline yesterday?

That nagging feeling that Prims put more than one town roleblocker-like role in this game. My roleblock is highly conditional and somewhat luck-reliant, so the odds of me doing anything useful are extremely low. Vanilla rolecop, on the other hand. . .not as much of a loss.

Since I don't have to worry about putting people close to hammer. . .

##Vote: Strege

My reads will change as the game progresses.

[Elieson]

also I was under suspicion/discussion a great deal D1, even if I haven't been for a while

I'll hafta reread D1 then. That was Vhaltz time, and you saw the exact breakdown of my d1 Reads (##everywhere ##confusing ##suchwordsverywow)

you also had Manix saying I was scummy D2, but eh

Not gonna take that for much siiiince "everyone can bus" and "Manix was scum so why trust scum"

I see some similarities between you and BBM regarding Manix commentary. However, I think BBM's support for Manix's lynch D1 wasn't necessary for scum and his hard defence D2 was neither a total defence (which he would be arguing away with WIFOM right now, and which would give him free reign to defend Manix more holistically than with just rolespec) nor a concealed defence. I'm townreading BBM.

Is my logic being bad grounds for my lynch? You've expressed no suspicion of me and this deserves support.

I've had a small amount of time to dig through the thread since D3 started, and you're the only person who's turned up scummy for me. If I'm tunnelling you otherwise, I'm sorry.

I'd quote BBM but I'm lazy, so here have this

BBM SAID: MANIX IS TOWN

That's a Total Defense if I've ever seen one.

Also, you haven't read up too much and threw a vote down on one of the only reads you've developed in your limitted read. Do you see the problem here?

if I'm not posting like scum anymore, I'm probably not scum

What the shit is this fuck logic

This is a silly post. You should investigate j00 instead of telling other people to investigate her -- which is what you're effectively doing here despite your earlier comment that we should merely take BBM's read with a grain of salt (which I'll agree with). Also, I can't find why you're scumreading Scarlet. Would you mind explaining or linking me to it?

eclipse should explain why she is apparently content to lynch either me or BBM, seeing as she hasn't expressed any significant suspicion of either of us. This is especially bizarre considering that she said that she and BBM are guilty of the "same thing" and is presumably defending herself when she says "town can screw up" and says I'm tunnelling her (the tunnelling might not be related to that specifically, idk).

SB has slightly good Manix interactions imo. The only exception is the fact that he was able to pull a bunch of complaints about Manix out of thin air in this post. I find it somewhat suspicious that his reads last phase were Elie and I (reactionary) and Manix (who he managed to pull a detailed case on out of thin air?). I need to reevaluate here but "somewhat scummy" is a fair descriptor of my opinion on SB.

Scarlet, j00, and Conq seem okay. I mentioned I was townreading BBM. I still don't totally get Refa (and I don't want to press a case that's probably reliant on player-dependent things more than anything) but I'm not a fan of his increasing effort yesterday only when suspicion started to weigh on him, and being far less productive ever since he was almost lynched.

People not being able to vote without hammering isn't a problem. People not looking for scum is. So you (my hypothetical friend) think BBM or I are scum? Okay. The daytime is a limited resource and it's not really being used right now though.

"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;" AND A TIME TO LYNCH SCUMBAGS

I'll write more later, and particularly look more into Elie. The thing I pointed out about eclipse really bothers me though so I'm good with my vote atm.

Elie said his jail was delayed N1, and hit you N2.

It would be bad for me to fullclaim but I'll say that there is a small addition to my role related to the main bit (dat vest thing). I only have one vest, which is a point I may be able to convince you of: I'm Linus, from Peanuts, and my vest is flavoured as a blanket. If you didn't get the item flavour then you can look at my my crumb in post 480: "Conq! nobias but I don't think you should shoot me. I'll be around later but I gotta wash my sheets n'stuff." I realized later that I made it too subtle in case I'd been redirected so I started pointing it out in ALL CAPS. lol I'm such a nub this game. I assume that's also why my PR is to quote scripture. Point is I only have one and was actively trying to tell you that I gave it to you, which is pretty terrible play for a Fabricator since you'd figure it out after a phase or two.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” and a mo'freakin recurring BPV. Sucka MC's ain't shit.

But if your thing is protection...how would he figure it out ever?

Elie! Could you be more descriptive about your read on me as well?

BBM! I've never crumbed a role, but this is what I meant by SECRET MESSAGE. Are you assuming the other "protective" roles are town?

Strege, you're looking less town than my other townreads, and while it's borrowed reasoning, PoE points to you not being town. Even if you aren't mafia, your reads and cases are generally weak, filled with things like "Well my reads suck this game so I might be wrong". Your utter lack of conviction makes it hard to understand what you think, and it comes off as scummy siiiiiiiiiiiiince your only firm stance seems to be on your lynchworthy targets that you have middling-at-best cases on.

I assumed you meant Courier when you said SECRET MESSAGE soooo go me

Oh yeah, derp. I'm used to N0 games and thought it was a blind shot. iirc it was Vhaltz who blocked you then, which is weird considering he was townreading you.

Elie, can you confirm if you blocked Conq?

"do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." ikr

I[Read, Vhaltz] blocked conq, and received successful results indicating that I was "Delayed" I mean I got them but the results came in just a little bit after I was subbed in, so not like i could've logically changed the action anyway, even though I was townreading Conq well enough. I also blocked you last night, which pertains to the information that I was waiting for. Both of my actions resolved last night, successfully. This is why I'm unsure of how Conq got your item (unless PrioritySpec). I don't have notes from voltz BUT my role protects from kills, and i'm assuming that if he was townreading Conq as much as I was by end of phase yesterday, that it'd make sense to try to protect him.

[Conqueror]

Cut by a post. I received his item N1.

I'm assuming Vhaltz was blocking me because town read and claimed no night action rather than because he thought I was scum. >_>

[Conqueror]

Manix's iso didn't give me much. A lot of soft interactions between him and Strege/Raymond, including several times where he calls them out in the same sentence. It would be weird imo for Manix to call out both his scumbuddies and only his scumbuddies.

##Unvote

##SayHiTo: Refa

I still very much dislike Manix, but it just doesn't seem like the Manix case is going anywhere, and considering how little he has done other than defend himself up to this point, I feel like the lynch is better-placed elsewhere right now.

Would, however, switch my vote back if necessary for the lynch to go through.

Would also still lynch SB.

This switch from Manix to Refa is pretty weak given the stated reasoning for his Refa vote (didn't like his eclipse vote or something?). Also, the wagons on Refa and Manix were about the same at that point, so I don't see why the Manix case wasn't going anywhere. As for hoping that I would vig Manix, I'm pretty sure I hinted at wanting to vig Balcerzak before I blew my load. It feels like a weird after-the-fact justification.

Aside from that, there's his voting priorities today. Finding SB still suspicious is okay I guess, but there's been a scumflip since yesterday and zero re-evaluation of that read and how the Manix flip might have affected that. Contrast Strege, who at least looks like the person who's trying the hardest this day phase even if his case on eclipse is pretty weak.

Also, part of why I think BBM is town: given his doublevotes (which he has shown he can move around, so it's not like they're stuck on someone for the entire day phase) he could have easily gotten SB lynched over Manix D2. Instead he left them hanging on a long-shot Elieson lynch and defended Manix for...WIFOM? It sure would be a quality scum play. I'm not sure it's one BBM would make. Leaves too many questions; if Manix was important enough to keep alive to defend like that surely he'd, you know, actually push a better counterwagon.

[Conqueror]

I do think the roleblock/protection wombo combo power that town has is pretty funky but I feel like the night actions are likely to resolve themselves. Also, eclipse claiming her roleblock as conditional makes an additional jailor/delayer/bpvestgiver? seem not as weird as it did before.

I guess I should talk more about Strege. I don't know, is my conclusion. :V Interactions and content leave him a good bet for scum but at this point it feels like he's putting a lot of effort into the game instead of rolling over and dying. Also pushing eclipse over BBM. Gut tells me he could have just pushed BBM if he were scum here.

[Scarlet]

Also, the wagons on Refa and Manix were about the same at that point, so I don't see why the Manix case wasn't going anywhere.

I'm sick of having to re-state my explanations just about every other post I make.

My reasoning is included here.

As for hoping that I would vig Manix, I'm pretty sure I hinted at wanting to vig Balcerzak before I blew my load. It feels like a weird after-the-fact justification.

You did state here that you wanted to shoot Balcerzak, but you also made another post afterwards where you expanded the "likely to shoot" category to include Kaoz and Manix.

I feel really lost at this point, and my motivation for this game isn't exactly at its peak right now since I'm a bit tired to begin with. Not sure if I'll post again before deadline.

[Conqueror]

I saw that, but that doesn't actually say why you were voting Refa except that "he was doing stuff when Manix wasn't." (Also, I think doing nothing except defending yourself is scummier than doing other stuff but it's possible this is just a scumhunting difference?)

What do you think about Strege at this stage? I know you said you didn't find him scummy, but what do you think of the points other people have brought up against him?

[Conqueror]

I also want you to expand on your BBM vote a bit? As far as I can tell this is why you're voting BBM:

Yes, you did fail to catch my attention all the way until today.

Today you warranted a closer look both for being one of the major wagons and for that unfounded push on me. I don't see how that makes my vote "super reactionary". Should I just have continued to ignore you?

I really don't like how you're trying to hold this against me.

in addition to weird interactions with Manix and bad logic against you.

The problem is that is that there are several people with weird interactions with Manix (that you completely ignored) and I don't see BBM's case as illogical as you're saying it is, even if his tone is a bit aggressive.

[Elieson]

Refa should come out of hiding

And we should probably start consolidating votes right now, as well as planning for Conq's role.

[Elieson]

Day 3.3 - Votals
BigBangMeteor (2): Refa, Scarlet
Conqueror (2): j00, Elieson
Scarlet (2): ????????, Conq
Strege (2): BigBangMeteor, eclipse
eclipse (1): Strege
Not Voting: SB

*I'm assuming BBM hasn't re-shuffled his extra vote?*

We have barely over 7 hours left, and votes evenly spread. thinking

[BBM]

Well I can and will switch my vote to Strege/Raymond as necessary; the only reason I split the votes up is because people (in particular, you) expressed that me throwing votes around was preventing others from voting as they wanted to.

I just don't realistically see Strege/Eclipse/Elie/SB all being town at this point and Strege is the least townie of the lot. After Strege it would be Elie. His play has been extremely lackluster today; he's done very little other than votepark me and at this point my entire townread is hinging on Manix interactions and that Kaoz post during the night. He was suspicious of me last phase, and even I can admit that my Manix interactions aren't great. The fact that he's just sitting on his vote instead of pushing it more makes me uncomfortable. He actually has more content pushing Strege today than me and it's not like I've been that inactive today.

Strege > Raymond > Elie > Refa

with Refa being in that list for similar reasons to Elie

[Strege]

If I was scum, I'd benefit from keeping quiet, as an Elieson lynch was being considered. As I was the first to claim, I'd be risking everything. . .to deflect a lynch and possibly place it on myself. Unless you think I'm Manix's buddy, and playing some insane gambit where he grabs my role after death, this doesn't make sense.

SB didn't need to claim the delay - if he were scum, he could probably claim non-consecutive empowerer, which I think would've been sufficient to keep him from being lynched. I'd say that the non-consecutive empowerer claim would be more likely, especially since mafia had rolecop on their side (which means that there's less of a chance that town can prove whether or not he's lying). Thus, his full claim make very little sense from a scum PoV.

[...]

Right-o.

Strege: Is your PR for every post, for every X number of posts, or something else? I see a few posts with no scripture, and yet BBM's vote is moving where he wants it to (as opposed to being stuck on you).

[...]

That first part about Elie is fair. I don't understand the second part, since I think SB not claiming delayer is pretty dangerous vs. voyeur or watcher. It was also not a straight-up 1v1 so there's less reason to lie anyway. As for why he said anything: eh, it shut down your reasoning for Elie being town.

I was supposed to include scripture in >50% of my posts, but Prims PM'd me since my last post and said that he messed up since I couldn't be punished until phase end or something. He bumped it to 75% with immediate repercussions if I slip up. I just realized I'm only at 50% of 10 posts this phase so I guess Prims can drop punishment on me at his discretion.

A lot of your townreads come from roles. What do you think of mine?

"May you be blessed for your good judgment and for keeping me from bloodshed this day and from avenging myself with my own hands."

Except for that avenging part; I'm trying to find topical excerpts here okay.

[j00]

speaking of Refa, he was a only a minor scumread to me compared to Manix, and when Manix flipped all of us has largely ignored him, but did people's opinion change only because if Manix? Refa has largely disappeared and Manix's only serious case was on Refa, which makes me wonder if he was bussing to get town cred in case Refa was lynched, considering he was busy and did little else. All of this is WIFOM and all, but I'm going to look more closely at their interactions before dismissing it outright.

Conq had a good point about BBM voting Elie, who wasn't even a viable wagon, when defending Manix. I don't even know about Scarlet anymore. His actions have been somewhat questionable but his reactions towards Manix and right now seem to be genuine frustration.

I'd still prefer Strege since his cases aren't very convincing, but the rest of the us might warrant some scrutiny too what with 3 roleblockers and all.

eclipse: if you've got any advise for less gay tablet posting, including how to bold and such, you're free to state it before postgame, I'm aware there are a lot of autocorrect typos and just typos in general.

Would people like me to move my vote from Conq?

[Strege]

That's a Total Defense if I've ever seen one.

Also, you haven't read up too much and threw a vote down on one of the only reads you've developed in your limitted read. Do you see the problem here?

But if your thing is protection...how would he figure it out ever?

Strege, you're looking less town than my other townreads, and while it's borrowed reasoning, PoE points to you not being town. Even if you aren't mafia, your reads and cases are generally weak, filled with things like "Well my reads suck this game so I might be wrong". Your utter lack of conviction makes it hard to understand what you think, and it comes off as scummy siiiiiiiiiiiiince your only firm stance seems to be on your lynchworthy targets that you have middling-at-best cases on.

I disagree that BBM's defence was a total defence (which is a term I'm adopting from "total war" w/e). BBM kept saying that he was sure Manix was town but kept using the same, clearly ineffective evidence regarding Manix's role to demonstrate it. He has a lot of opportunities to recognize this and defend him in better ways but didn't, and in the end he was almost just abstaining.

I meant to write that I hadn't reread much for Manix interactions. I was caught up in the thread, but had only dug through the ISO's of eclipse, SB, BBM, and someone else.

Conq was told he was blocked, and the myth I was trying to dispell was that my item caused that message since it was the reason people thought I might be a Fabricator.

This part goes out to a lot of people: how am I getting criticized for having weak cases when people are straight-up saying that they don't have any cases? Also, "only having cases on lynchworthy targets" Elie? I have three right now (you, eclipse, and SB) and I'm pretty sure this hasn't been the case in past day phases; why is not having an explicit fourth scumread scummy?

"Anyone who kills a person is to be put to death as a murderer only on the testimony of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness."

[Elieson]

Because doing something in the second half of DayPhase with your votes totally makes up for the time missed during the first half of the Dayphase

I'm ISO'ing BBM and Strege, and while BBM's defenses of Manix like all game long post claim and everything were a thing, Strege is just all over the place from day to day, and not consistent with his reads

I'm thinking BBM > Strege today. I would've taken my vote off of BBM to put it on Strege, but Strege was already responding to pressure with beign at L-1 and answering people without the need for an extra vote piled onto him.

Associations aside, self depreciation is lame lame lame and being used too often, and it just seems like strege's cases are just to flimsily built to warrant validity

At this point, I think it's best to just get this done.

##Vote Strege

Anyone, what are your thoughts to handle Conq's role?

P.Edit: BBM how come you've got eclipse as a scumread, but suddenly put Refa and I over eclipse. Like, you didn't even explain why eclispe is scum.

in fact, once again, you've been all over eclipse being town because i dunno, ?Rolespec?, but suddenly lumped her into scum.

P.P.Edit: I just reread BBM's post and saw that he doesn't think we are all town. Scratch that point, as I'm...still guessing it's on Rolespec, but elaboration would be cool.

[Elieson]

Strege, you haven't cased me at all, you've just repeated that i'm somewhere between scummy and kinda scummy, and haven't really done anything beyond asking me questions and i guess look my answers.

I still think BBM is scum though but if I can explain this clearly hmm)...

I think bbm is slightly more likely to be scum than strege, but i think we will learn a lot more from strege if he flips scum

I also think Refa's been given entirely too much credit in this game.