I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[Green Poet]

GP's claim seems legitimate to me. If she wasn't miller that would be quite an interesting thing to claim right away. No counterclaims yet either. I also hope kop is not vigilante again. I dislike RVS a lot as there is not much I can pull out except for the obvious.

Someone else claiming this role wouldn't exactly be a CC, considering how this beloved variant isn't a power role nor common.

Why do you hope that Wen isn't the vig this time?

[FrostyFireMage]

@Shinori: No, I wasn't saying that your vote was bad. I was just curious as to why you made it into a prodvote in the first place.

Feeling less happy about how Frosty's handling the game so far. Frosty, whoisscum? Based on what you've seen so far, who would you prefer to lynch (or not to lynch) today? I'd hope you'd have at least one read of some sort already. Saying "yourself" is a B.S. answer, btw, for reasons others have mentioned (self-preservation isn't scummy, but it's not exactly good town play either).

- I have doubts about Elieson; voting for me because of a joke post and then not contributing further? It might have been a RVS vote, but anyway...

- I kinda agree with Eclipse on bearclaw; his previous post didn't really say much that hasn't been said before.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson at least until he participates further.

[MRDRHAWK]

Why do you hope that Wen isn't the vig this time?

probably because the last two games he's been in he's rolled vig

Though, since he seems to get lucky with his shots, I'm curious as to why Junko would note that... possible scumslip?

[Junk]

lol that was a joke. Because p3 mafia.

[Wen Yang]

Someone else claiming this role wouldn't exactly be a CC, considering how this beloved variant isn't a power role nor common.

Why do you hope that Wen isn't the vig this time?

Don't worry. I'm not the Vig this time. If I were, someone would be shot already by now ^_^

That said, Frosty's self-read felt a bit... overly defensive to me, so I'm keeping my vote on him for the time being.

[Shinori]

Then why bother with the rest of what he posted?

Cause I wanted reactions and conversation. It helps get a better read on players. Just because one thing one person does isn't scummy doesn't mean that other things they do won't be scummy. And even though the OMGUS wasn't Scummy per-say, I don't quite like what he's been doing with his posts. However his most recent posts says some good stuff about Elieson(one lines worth I guess.)

@FFM: Why didn't you state that dislike for Bear earlier then when you were conversing with him and me at that time?

[Green Poet]

Though, since he seems to get lucky with his shots, I'm curious as to why Junko would note that... possible scumslip?

Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

lol that was a joke. Because p3 mafia.

The intuitive response, I guess.

[Shinori]

Don't worry. I'm not the Vig this time. If I were, someone would be shot already by now ^_^

That said, Frosty's self-read felt a bit... overly defensive to me, so I'm keeping my vote on him for the time being.

Policy:

##I'm the best vig! Die Kopfjager!

[FrostyFireMage]

@FFM: Why didn't you state that dislike for Bear earlier then when you were conversing with him and me at that time?

retrospect. eclipse inspired me to go re-read the situation

My read on him isn't particularly strong anyway

[BBM]

ISOs are up in the OP.

[Eurykins]

I'm tired.... blargh. x_x;;

Meh I would wait till phoenix01 or whatever posts some more. Seems to be his first game so this may explain why he wanted an investigation so early. Also has posted once or twice and one post I think was not even a content post. He is new (I think) so I can feel better as well.

GP's claim seems legitimate to me. If she wasn't miller that would be quite an interesting thing to claim right away. No counterclaims yet either. I also hope kop is not vigilante again. I dislike RVS a lot as there is not much I can pull out except for the obvious.

Italicized: I sorta get what you mean wrt Phoenix01, but you seem to waffle on a bit longer than necessary about him, imo.

Bolded: You make it sound like miller is the only thing people would want to claim right away? (PGO and other things that could end up afflicting townies with terrible drawbacks are also viable roles to want to claim ASAP as to reduce the chances of town suffering as a result?)

Underlined: Lol, P3 references.

I don't like making votes unless I'm fairly sure/in RVS.

Meanwhile I don't like how it looks like you're trying to start a wagon against me.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Shinori

...But it was ED1.. (and I'd say nearing the end of RVS stage by this post?) I'm pretty sure most people are going by gut reads from reactionary posts happening? In which case, I'm not sure anyone is 100% sure/solid with any of their thoughts/cases, but more based on bad vibes? Seems weird for you to be this wary/careful this early in the game with regards to your votes.

I'm not sure how my reaction proves anything worthwhile, really. Either I'm a defensive newbie trying to avoid a mislynch or defensive scum trying to avoid getting lynched.

Not exactly sure what this statement is meant to say/do. Seems kinda self-conscious and/or otherwise too jumpy, imo, and also sounds weird to me. I'd think townies would respond to questions directed to/at them, while focusing more on scum hunting than anything (the time spent in self-defense posts could be better spent pinning down an actual scum, imo). In addition, by putting it in extremes (implying that a mislynch/lynch on you would happen and/or a huge wagon would be started for said [serious] lynch), I'm getting a sort of defensive/cornered animal sort of vibe, when I'm not sure it was warranted at the time?

- I have doubts about Elieson; voting for me because of a joke post and then not contributing further? It might have been a RVS vote, but anyway...

- I kinda agree with Eclipse on bearclaw; his previous post didn't really say much that hasn't been said before.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson at least until he participates further.

At first I thought you were voting for Elie 'cause you found his actions questionable (and thus viable for a semi-serious vote), but then the blurb right after the Elie vote just makes it seem more like a prod at activity (or lackthereof) alone? You also agree with Eclipse on the bearclaw case, which makes me wonder why the vote on Elieson over Bearclaw? (You even concede the fact that Elieson's actions could've also been a result of RVS voting/posting as well, so does that still trump over Eclipse's case against Bearclaw?) Would like to know the reason behind the vote/priority between the two.

You make it seem like you're putting down thoughts, but they seem very easy and it's easy to sheep someone's case to add padding to a post.

Don't worry. I'm not the Vig this time. If I were, someone would be shot already by now ^_^

That said, Frosty's self-read felt a bit... overly defensive to me, so I'm keeping my vote on him for the time being.

Either egging someone on to shoot him (bait), or classic redirecting away from himself like he did in P3 via GP~ and why would you assume that a vig would've shot you by now if that's the case, Kop?

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

-- And cut by none other than FFM

retrospect. eclipse inspired me to go re-read the situation

My read on him isn't particularly strong anyway

What are your thoughts on him then? Elaborate what you can, and also- I understand that people can miss things, but I find it a bit difficult that someone would avoid mentioning something that took place in a conversation they hosted with someone (you with Kop and Shinori), and that it'd require the need of someone else pointing it out in order to say so. Sometimes you may not know exactly why the vibes are there, but they can still be there and worth mentioning nonetheless; otherwise, this just makes it seem like you're kinda throwing in after-thoughts. Not sure if just kinda lazy/unaware or otherwise sheeping other people's cases for easy coasting times.

[euklyd]

Why do you hope that Wen isn't the vig this time?

I personally was hoping that Kopf not be vig again because he seems to shoot first, think later. And while he may get lucky with a shot or two, I'm really not happy with how he shot the Doc in P3, and his reasoning for it.

[/answering for others]

If I waited instead and there ended up being a wagon on me, for me to say "you shouldn't lynch me or town will get X drawback" sounds far more like a fakeclaim than if I'd simply got it out of the way now voluntarily. I don't really see how it's different from a miller and such, but eh, I guess the consideration's subjective and potentially WIFOMy anyway.

Your claimed role doesn't get you lynched when someone investigates you (probably). Miller does, and saying "wait hold on don't lynch me I'm actually Miller" after a cop claims a scan doesn't get you out of anything; there's a mislynch, a cop wastes a scan and claims, and then gets shot.

anyways I'm not really seeing a whole lot scum intent in FFM's posts...bad play does not necessarily = scum. That being said I really don't see a lot of other stuff that stands out to me right now...

also Shinori, care to elaborate on this policy of yours? "Policy lynch Kopf because he shot me last game" is a poor reason (just getting that out there).

Still liking the Refa wagon most, though. Please, lynch my scumbuddy; I need some towncred so that I can be lurkscum. 8]

[euklyd]

ISOs are up in the OP.

Cocomon's (Junko's) ISO is gonna be broken; use http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=47396&search_author=DO%20NOT%20EDIT%20POSTS%20GUY instead

[Shinori]

The whole thing towards Kopf is just a joke. I haven't seriously put any effort forth to actually vote for him or anything.

Were you reading my posts towards Kopf as serious? Even though I haven't voted him since RVS?

Why do you like the Refa wagon exactly? Do you actually feel that his like two posts lead to him being scum? I don't really feel like he said or did much but I think it's more of a null read at the moment.

[Wen Yang]

Eury, I didn't say that. I was saying that if I were the vig, I'd have already shot someone by now. Not asking to be shot. XD

And Euk, I digress. I shot the cop, not the doc.

[BBM]

Cocomon's (Junko's) ISO is gonna be broken; use http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=47396&search_author=DO%20NOT%20EDIT%20POSTS%20GUY instead

fixed

If anyone changes their name in the middle of the game, please let me know. I may miss it otherwise.

[eclipse]

Now that there's stuff to comment on:

- Don't entirely agree with Eury's reason for voting FFM. The sense I get from FFM is that he's putting the first thing that's on his mind into a post. This is null IMO.

- Shinori, you keep mentioning Wen, just as Euklyd mentions Refa. I understand that a joke is a joke, but if the two of you aren't serious, please taper it off. It's starting to get in the way of my reads.

- This isn't P3 mafia, so why is it still being brought up?

[Eurykins]

Eury, I didn't say that. I was saying that if I were the vig, I'd have already shot someone by now. Not asking to be shot. XD

And Euk, I digress. I shot the cop, not the doc.

OH. LOL. I'm so good at reading, I swear. XD

[And to be fair, shooting the cop was kinda worse than shooting the doc, imo, lol.]

[euklyd]

Policy:

##I'm the best vig! Die Kopfjager!

this looks like a continuation of a policy but okay

[spoiler=Eclipse kinda cut this whole post off goddammit]also to answer your question I am bussing Refa for the towncred I'll get when he flips scum. I think he's posted all of one RVS post (not really sure, I know he's scum because he's in my QT, so his actual posts don't really matter), which means this is some next-level bussing I've got going on here.

Eury, I didn't say that. I was saying that if I were the vig, I'd have already shot someone by now. Not asking to be shot. XD

And Euk, I digress. I shot the cop, not the doc.

Same difference (I was dead at the time). Speaking of which, you shot the Cop instead of the other claimed Vig who you tracked killing me. [spoiler= COMPLETELY UNEXPECTED !!SPOILERS!! ]He was an SK

PEDIT: Thanks Eclipse.

I really don't have much useful to say atm (if that wasn't totally obvious), which means I should probably reread.

[Refa]

I keep on trying to read this day phase and end up giving up halfway through because so much filler. I still feel like I missed something, to be honest...

i feel like refa took an awfully long time to respond to all of these posts/had the thread open for a while, but idk his scum!meta well so yeah. but it makes me feel sort of uneasy. idk how i feel about his response (or lack of) to his small wagon

My scum!meta is fakeclaiming Cop. I think there are other things too, but fuck if I know them.

No, a townie doesn't value their own life over finding scum. Over-defensiveness is a generally reasonable scumtell because scum do have far more reason to avoid being lynched than town, who instead examine cases on themselves to find scum.

Actually, Newb!Town can be defensive if they have a Power Role that they deem "too valuable to lose". That's the vibe I'm getting, anyways. FFM please don't confirm if this is true.

GP's claim is eh - unlike a traditional miller/hated/WHO MAKES TOWN NINJAS?!, this wouldn't have been a problem as long as she was never in danger of being lynched. I'm not happy with the timing of the claim, but I'm not reading it as scummy.

I think that it's better that GP claims now and not when we're about to lynch her; the last thing I want is to be stuck between lynching Princess Peach and a Universal Loss.

Good old meta read tells me Poly is town, because somehow he's done more than most of the playerbase and he'd be a lot lazier as scum.

Dunno what to think of Eurykins' post. There's a lot of words but she's not really saying a lot. I feel like she would have more content as town, however considering the ED1 filler I guess I can't blame her for that.

I never thought I'd say this but I think Shinori is like the most obvious town player in this game.

I don't think FFM stating Iris was defensive and then not voting for it was scummy. Like, I don't agree with the conclusion, but I can see why a townie would think that. As for the not voting, well I'm pretty sure several people have stated minor suspicions and clung on to their RVS votes regardless. FFM doesn't ping me any more in this regard. His vote on Shinori was pretty bad, but it's so obviously bad that I don't see why he'd do it as scum. No, screw your WIFOM, it doesn't even make him out to be townier. Also he makes a good point about Elieson; his reaction to and subsequent vote on FFM felt very...forced.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

[FrostyFireMage]

I think I'll go to bed now. I'll add to this in the morning.

[Phoenix01]

Meh I would wait till phoenix01 or whatever posts some more. Seems to be his first game so this may explain why he wanted an investigation so early. Also has posted once or twice and one post I think was not even a content post. He is new (I think) so I can feel better as well.

GP's claim seems legitimate to me. If she wasn't miller that would be quite an interesting thing to claim right away. No counterclaims yet either. I also hope kop is not vigilante again. I dislike RVS a lot as there is not much I can pull out except for the obvious.

There is one problem with Eliesons vote I have though. It feels like he is trying to justify his vote on FFM just because. It might have been trying to contribute to RVS but that just seems like a silly reason right there as it was obvious it was a joke. But that is just nitpicking at this point. I hate RVS. I will try to wait for more content for the time being.

I said "if nothing new comes up". If someone else claims something, obviously we'll have to debate who to investigate. Or we could wifom so evils don't know what's happening.

Right now I'm not sure about FFM. When I come home from school, I'll post something.

[Elieson]

Woohoo for falling asleep at 9pm with my daughter in her bed. Man I'm stiff. That was not a comfortable night, geez. Sorry to have left you hanging like that last night, Eury, and GeePee, I still owe you coffee for that. Chalk it up to my mobile not having a mode that displays anything other than your Username/Avatar. Can you throw me a bone? I really am sorry about that

---

Uh, it was a joke. Not to be taken seriously.

I feel like this is a repeat of FAYZ and nobody seems to get the fact that it was obviously a joke (only I did, I was just tooling around). Heck, I wasn't even pushing for a patented Elie's Trademark Intentionally Scummy Reaction Test.

[spoiler=@TheOneTrueSupreme]I'm just personally not fond of her music, appearances, etc. I know/respect that other people like her (and that's fine), but she's just not my cup of tea, so to speak. If not liking her as an artist/person automatically makes me a 'hater', then sure, I guess?

(Though I find it amusing that your post as a whole [explosive reaction] to me not liking her face in that pic = kinda renders your argument/claim that you're above doing such "childish things" null and void, since your reaction (and pic post) > mine in terms of childish behavior.... lol.)

^ Stuck that in a spoiler, 'cause that pretty much has no real relevance to the Mafia game/thread itself.

@Euklyd: Baa baa? But I'd rather be a horse instead.. :<

What is this supposed to be? Also Nikki Minaj is an awful person and therefore makes great memes

Requesting that Elieson not hit on me, lol, since I just turned legal last week. Also this game is more nonsensical than I expected . . . was hoping for a more serious atmosphere, but alas, RVS.

Anyways, Re: Green Poet.

While I'm inclined to believe you now, you made no notion wrt whether your ability applies solely to lynches, or night kills. I'm assuming you meant just the former, since I will slay BBM/SB if it's both. c:

Also I agree with Shinori (Scumnori???) that talking about what the cop (if we have a role cop) should do about their scan is pointless at this point in the game. #notstuntingscumhuntingiswear

That's alright Iris, I wouldn't ever do anything to make you feel uncomfortable, intentionally anyway. If I overstep boundries, let me know and I'll do my best to make amends for them.

But...I will call you out on your post since everything you said has been established like 3x over by now. A content post, this is not.

I don't think anyone actually took FFM's reasoning as serious. What did you honestly expect to gain from this?

Why so much about GP's claim?

The bolded part actually stands out and is pretty true. There really is no reason to worry about this GP's claim at the moment. Like Elie said the role is basically like a miller claim.

We aren't gonna lynch GP to test that claim and an inspect of GP would be about the same as inspecting a miller honestly. We wouldn't get much out of it.

Wouldn't be the same as a miller, in that if an alignment cop exists, it's not going to get a botched scan result on lil' Poet's claim (I'm assuming).

EVERYONE POLICY PLEASE.

Let's stop with the Policy this plzkthx. I'm all for actual logic, not LynchRapierForBeingRapier logic.

I was asking if what he (Elie) said was referring to GP's claim (and why he said: "That aside, I think that princess spec for our lovely lady is worth reading as a miller claim; worth considering for now. It's pretty powerful, but not worth arguing against.", when I didn't see anything being argued against (aside from the investigative role issue, which I also mentioned), if it was regarding GP's claim?).

[AKA. I was sorta confused by Elie's post/notions in what he was saying/who he was referring to. I didn't do it to pull GP's claim up for more circulation, if that's what you're commenting on/about.]

When I said Pretty powerful, I meant that the role itself is powerful, since it essentially means a night with no nightkills in exchange for no information

I don't like making votes unless I'm fairly sure/in RVS.

Meanwhile I don't like how it looks like you're trying to start a wagon against me.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Shinori

This was painfully obvious.

Though, wouldn't I be the one "Starting the wagon" on you? This feels like a don't shoot me eclipse misrepresentation of Shinori, since like, I was the instigator, and you're shifting your vote to someone for the wrong reasons

Because explaining yourself is the best way to avoid getting lynched.

You didn't do that though. You're defending yourself, instead of reinforcing your stance on your vote/actions. It's different.

Eury, I didn't say that. I was saying that if I were the vig, I'd have already shot someone by now. Not asking to be shot. XD

And Euk, I digress. I shot the cop, not the doc.

I shot the sheriff, but I did not shoot the deputy

Can we /PLEASE/ stop claiming what we are/are not?

---

Something though, that seriously stands out to me right now, is that Iris is doing nothing of value with her posts. She's kiiinda sitting on a votepark for Refa from back in RVS, and now she's trying to justify her vote, post vote, with waffly reasons, unprovoked. If you want your vote to be somewhere that you find it useful, you put it on a scumread, not on someone you can't clearly read via your case of

i feel like refa took an awfully long time to respond to all of these posts/had the thread open for a while, but idk his scum!meta well so yeah. but it makes me feel sort of uneasy. idk how i feel about his response (or lack of) to his small wagon

##Unvote

##Vote Iris

[Green Poet]

Just skimming stuff now. Will post content in some hours.

Refa, why do you think Shinori's obvious town?

[MRDRHAWK]

- This isn't P3 mafia, so why is it still being brought up?

Because everyone wants to see me cry. ;-;

Good old meta read tells me Poly is town, because somehow he's done more than most of the playerbase and he'd be a lot lazier as scum.

Dunno what to think of Eurykins' post. There's a lot of words but she's not really saying a lot. I feel like she would have more content as town, however considering the ED1 filler I guess I can't blame her for that.

I never thought I'd say this but I think Shinori is like the most obvious town player in this game.

lolmeta

What has Shinori done that makes him obvtown up to now? I mean, I'm not seeing him as scummy, but I'd like to know why this is the case.

When I said Pretty powerful, I meant that the role itself is powerful, since it essentially means a night with no nightkills in exchange for no information

Yeah, but... it's still not that great of a role. Still, I don't see GP making that claim as scum, so... uh.

Still not liking Frosty. Will re-read Iris to see if I find any content or if Elie's right on his read of her.