I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[Wen Yang]

Pretty sure something's wrong with the votals there... How could I not vote and yet vote for myself? >_>

[Iris]

Thank you BBM. And for the sake of my sanity, I'll start using proper capitalization.

I figured I should examine the players with little to votes in case they were scum trying to stay out of the spotlight.

Hey you! It looks like Shinori and I both asked you questions but you haven't answered them. Ironically, I asked you how you felt about Shinori, and Shinori asked you how you felt about me . . . either way, I'd still like answers.

And while that's a good theory in thought, in practice, 1 vote wagons (it's not even a wagon) generally tend to go unnoticed, especially by scum. :/ Actually it makes it look like you're trying to avoid a wagon (Elieson's wagon was 4 votes with you on it) which is scummy, but you pointed that out yourself.

re: meta discussion

Actually I don't think meta is that unreliable. I think it's pretty good for D1 since no one knows anything D1. I would strong discourage using it so strongly during later days (since flips/night action results/etc.).

[FrostyFireMage]

Hey you! It looks like Shinori and I both asked you questions but you haven't answered them. Ironically, I asked you how you felt about Shinori, and Shinori asked you how you felt about me . . . either way, I'd still like answers.

Shinori doesn't seem scummy to me at the moment; constantly contributing, etc, etc. He certainly isn't high on my list of concerns.

You haven't really expounded upon your vote for Elieson apart from your gut feeling. Which isn't really a good sign. I'm less sure about you, tbh.

[Iris]

So besides answering our questions... do you have anything else to say?

Because there was nothing to expound from; I'm still waiting for an additional response/reaction from Elieson, since wrt our squabble, I posted last. And it's more than gut if you read my posts. I saw him lurking earlier, but he hasn't posted yet, although he could be busy.

Also iirc Green Poet is using activity to quantify scummy-ness, which is bad, since activity really isn't a scumtell (as some players are always inactive).

[Green Poet]

Also iirc Green Poet is using activity to quantify scummy-ness, which is bad, since activity really isn't a scumtell (as some players are always inactive).

I'm saying Refa's higher activity this game makes me think he's town, not scum. This is based on meta, so it's inherently a tentative read.

Also just realized my RVS vote's still on Elieson. Going to ISO him and see if it's worth keeping that vote there, as my initial doubts weren't terribly thorough.

[Green Poet]

When I said Pretty powerful, I meant that the role itself is powerful, since it essentially means a night with no nightkills in exchange for no information

My role will not stop scum factional kills, and is in no way a good "exchange" for town, as they gain no benefit from my role triggering. Maybe there was a miscommunication somewhere down the line, or scum!Elieson could've tried to spread this misinterpretation to make an accidental beloved lynch possible.

Though, wouldn't I be the one "Starting the wagon" on you? This feels like a don't shoot me eclipse misrepresentation of Shinori, since like, I was the instigator, and you're shifting your vote to someone for the wrong reasons

It's against scum's interest to redirect attention to themselves, regardless of whether or not the person in question is a scumbuddy or townie. This sounds like something a townie would say, imo.

Seriously, it looks like you're just struggling to justify keeping your vote on Refa up until... well, now (where you're on me now). So, unless I'm misreading your reads on the game, it seems like right now, your only "read" is a waffle on Refa maybe/maybe not being scum, and you're voting for Refa because you're reading him in a waffly way.

It's ED1; I don't see what the problem is with being uncertain. Voting someone because they have weak ED1 reads is probably the easiest way to get a D1 mislynch.

##Unvote

I don't think Elie's said anything worth lynching over. I don't agree with his case on Iris (nor Iris' case on him) but for now, I don't believe keeping my vote there will help much in catching scum. Going to look over people I haven't discussed soon.

[MRDRHAWK]

My role will not stop scum factional kills, and is in no way a good "exchange" for town, as they gain no benefit from my role triggering. Maybe there was a miscommunication somewhere down the line, or scum!Elieson could've tried to spread this misinterpretation to make an accidental beloved lynch possible.

Yes, it is a pretty meh role. But at the same time, it means we have one less person to potentially mislynch if the claim's legit (which I'm pretty sure it is), which means we've not only got a clear and therefore force scum into killing you outright instead of a potentially more powerful role.

I know that sounds dumb, but it means that if you turn up dead, then we'll already have sorted out associative reads.

[FrostyFireMage]

Yes, it is a pretty meh role. But at the same time, it means we have one less person to potentially mislynch if the claim's legit (which I'm pretty sure it is), which means we've not only got a clear and therefore force scum into killing you outright instead of a potentially more powerful role.

I know that sounds dumb, but it means that if you turn up dead, then we'll already have sorted out associative reads.

Uh, yeah, thanks for pointing out the obvious, but do you think you could start giving your thoughts on other players instead of dwelling on that issue?

[euklyd]

YEAH WALLPOSTS
man this took way too long; on-and-off-busy is the worst

Cocomon (Junko): seems town enough, although a MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT on his last game (P3) might be due to coaching? Leaning town though.
Actually you seem to be criticizing FFM now when you used to be newbtown-reading him. Has your read changed because of this?
Actually actually you're still on Refa, and while I approve of your willingness to help me lynch my buddy, it's probably time to move out of RVS.

Darros: has one (1) content post, and most of it is nitpicking (read: filler, imo) and then a bit about FFM. Null, slightly leaning scum.

Phoenix: is doing a good job of saying nothing. would vig/10.
Also the whole "is it just me or is it strange that Junko's posts never seem to finish" reads like scum trying to cast suspicion without committing to it (sorta, getting a feel for if people would back them up).

Refa:

I don't believe GP's claim is a fakeclaim, but why do you think that she's not scum because of it?

If you believe the claim to be non-fake, then scum!GP would just get lynched and roleblock everyone and be quite happy about that. if the claim is for reals, then GP is definitely town.
Also agreed with Refa on Shinori - in all the games I've played with Scumnori, he's not acted like this.
overall would bus/10

GP: Had honestly forgot that GP even existed in this game, which is odd, considering I definitely remembered the claim. Reasoning for “probably scum between Elieson and Iris” is kinda weird to me? I dunno. Do you think that they're scum slapfighting, or what? You seem to be implying that both are scummy without giving a preference.
pedit: actually looking at this whole thing I can totally see where you're coming from.

Elieson: I wasn't really seeing the scumminess, and then (as Refa and Shinori pointed out) I noticed that at the time when he voted for Iris, Iris had basically no content, while FFM was already starting down the path of the obvscum. Seems kinda suspicious imo.

Iris: Too much meta, too little content. The Elieson vote is really weak, and there's not a whole lot of content here to go off of.

Not really liking either of them.

Shinori: waay more active and proactive than any Scumnori I've ever played with. Basically my strongest townread. The voteswitch away from FFM was a bit weird, but I don't think it means anything unless FFM flips scum, and even then probably not.
#lininguplynches

[spoiler=boringish, one-or-two-line nullreads]Eury: is basically tunneling FFM. Could be town, could be lazy scum. Null.
Not really seeing anything that stands out to me from Poly. Nullish.
Eclipse: disagree with her reasoning for voting Bearclaw. Not a lot to say here.
Bearclaw: meh. not seeing a lot to work with here. would vig/10.
Kopf: literally no content, also wtf creepypost. would policyvig/10.

Euklyd: solid, obviously protown player; y'all should definitely sheep him. LOCK TOWN always wanted to say that

FFM: TOTALLY OBVSCUM there's not actually a lot to say here. Completely ambivalent here. Probably leaning scum on him, but it's annoying how hard it is to read him. would vig/10.

ScumSpectrum™:
FFM ? Elieson ≈ Iris > Darros
or something I guess

##unvote (Refa)

Need to think. I don't like the gamestate atm, but meh ;/
Also I'm being asked to do ~things~ by my family, so I'll probably be busy (busier).

[euklyd]

I'm saying Refa's higher activity this game makes me think he's town, not scum. This is based on meta, so it's inherently a tentative read.

Also just realized my RVS vote's still on Elieson. Going to ISO him and see if it's worth keeping that vote there, as my initial doubts weren't terribly thorough.

>Refa

>this game

>high activity

>5 posts

Seriously though activity doesn't seem to be a tell for Refa in my experience. He's been active!town and active!scum, pretty sure.

[MRDRHAWK]

>reads through Euk's post

>Ctrl+F's "Poly"

>0 matches

Euk pls

I can't be that unforgettable, can I?

[FrostyFireMage]

Sorry if I came across as antagonistic before, but Poly hasn't really given any reads on anyone other than me and GP.

[euklyd]

>reads through Euk's post

>Ctrl+F's "Poly"

>0 matches

Euk pls

I can't be that unforgettable, can I?

I think you mean forgettable, but.....

[BREAKING THE SPOILER TAG spoiler=boringish, one-or-two-line nullreads]Eury: is basically tunneling FFM. Could be town, could be lazy scum. Null.

Not really seeing anything that stands out to me from Poly. Nullish.

Eclipse: disagree with her reasoning for voting Bearclaw. Not a lot to say here.

Bearclaw: meh. not seeing a lot to work with here. would vig/10.

Kopf: literally no content, also wtf creepypost. would policyvig/10.

ON A TOTALLY UNRELATED NOTE

Poly why did you change your avatar back I was about to get a read on you.

[eclipse]

Fuck this.

Not you guys. You're all cool. Something else has happened, and I'm very close to breaking. I'll get something out when I'm calmer.

[Wen Yang]

Going to be off at a cousin's wedding today, don't expect much from me till late sunday-ish.

[FrostyFireMage]

Going to bed; will check in morning.

[Elieson]

@elieson:

my vote for refa was rvs; there was no struggle in keeping my vote on him, since he was the only one i had a scummy-ish read on atm. i didn't see a satisfactory response until he responded in his last post.

my vote stays for aforementioned reasons since i'm still uneasy about you.

if you want to look at voteparkers, you should look at half the game. for example, also wow, can't believe i missed bearclaw's claim sort of thing. not sure what to think of that, but his vote's "parked" on darros, and i'm not giving him shit for it?

I looked at voteparkers. There was one person who stuck out to me as defending her votepark hours after making it, and that was you, hence my vote. And, so you WERE reading him as scum? Because your post with your vote defense in it didn't really imply that you had any actual read on him one way or the other.

The vote Elie put on Iris is weak considering it seemed like he had better reasoning on FFM. I don't know what to say regarding these two. Elie seemed to get a bit emotional in his response towards Iris and I don't really like that. Honestly though I felt both of the initial votes on each of them were weak however Elie looks worse at the moment in my eyes.

It kind of seemed like he lost his cool I guess in his reaction towards Iris. I don't really think any town(besides me) generally lose their cool so easy for such little reasoning. FoS on Elie here.

Manix and Grassbridger do I threw my vote on Iris because it was already on FFM, and FFM was reacting and contributing to discussion, not very well, but contributing, while Iris did something that stood out as actually scummy to me, and not something that could go either way.

@Koph: Jokingly voting for me in RVS and then conveniently keeping his vote on me when it was apparent my playing was controversial? And then barely adding anything more? Don't like it.

@Darros: Funny that you should criticize me for not contributing when your post pretty much said nothing new apart from snarking

Euklyd, Dragonfang and Phoenix need to post more. I've got a slight town read from Shinori.

Iris' vote on Elieson was pretty weak but she admitted she was OMGUSing. Although Elie's reaction was indeed pretty incensed. Maybe he was feeling pressure due my vote + Refa's and Iris's.

Imma change my vote to Kopf until he posts something meaningful.

##Unvote

##Vote: Kopfjager

I don't know what incensed means Honestly I didn't even notice that other people were voting for me o.o

THOUGH WHY YOU VOTED FOR SOMEONE AS A PROD VERSUS SOMEONE THAT YOU APPARENTLY HAVE A SCUMREAD ON, I DON'T KNOW ##obviousattemptatbussinghere

For the record, I've only participated in three games of Mafia: in two of them I was lynched pretty early and the other was my first game so please excuse my scrubbiness.

for the record, my first 2 games of mafia had me as mafia aligned, so really, it doesn't mean much in terms of your alignment whether you've played 1 game or 100 games.

[spoiler=re: Frosty Fire Mafia]FFM is basically being ~completely obvious scum~

there's the OMGUS, self-meta/analysis, some pretty blatant voteparking on inactives, complete unwillingness to give scumreads, and more inactive voteparking.

like holy shit

As much as I normally hate "wow that's too blatantly scummy to be scum" defenses, this is ridiculous. I have no idea about this and it pisses me off.

I feel like atm FFM is a safe wagon that doesn't really tell us much about people voting for him, simply because it's ~so easy~ to park on.

tl;dr - highly ambivalent, possibly 2scum4scum, wagon is too 'easy' to tell me anything with associative reads. would vig/10.

@Shinori - The Refa wagon is/was the best one because I wanted my scumbuddy lynched so that I would get loads of towncred from the bus and be able to coast to victory.

I'm pretty sure I already said this.

Before you ask, no, there is not any other reason. is it not enough that I want to lynch someone who is, FMPOV, confirmed scum? Also much easier than making up cases on townies.

I'm rereading basically everyone as we speak, but I want to get something out sooner rather than later.

This post is so big, and has absolutely nothing in it

I figured I should examine the players with little to votes in case they were scum trying to stay out of the spotlight.

NO that's not how this works. You're one arbitrary vote does little, if anything, to apply pressure, and hardly brings anyone into the spotlight, especially at this stage of the game.

Not Voting (2) - Phoenix, Kopfjager

This is scum.

My role will not stop scum factional kills, and is in no way a good "exchange" for town, as they gain no benefit from my role triggering. Maybe there was a miscommunication somewhere down the line, or scum!Elieson could've tried to spread this misinterpretation to make an accidental beloved lynch possible.

I actually misinterpretted your claim and as all players (i missed "townies" in your claim apparently) ^{_{proreadskills}}

YEAH WALLPOSTS Translated and condensed, by yours truly

Cocomon (Junko): Leaning Town

Darros: slightly leaning scum

Phoenix: would vig

Refa: Town

GP: Null?

Elieson: Null leaning scum

Iris: Null leaning scum

Shinori: Town

Eury: Null

Poly. Null

Eclipse: Null

Bearclaw: would vig

Kopf: would vig

Euklyd: Town

FFM: Leaning scum

4 leaning scumreads, 0 votes. Deplorable listpost is deplorable.

---

While I still think Iris's vote on refa and me was bad, she's not coming across to me as being as scummy as I thought earlier. I guess singling her out was a bit over the top, though it got a hefty reaction from her despite just being one vote, and that was cool

##Unvote

##wouldvig/10 (##Vote) Euklyd

This guy though has made soooooo many posts with soooooo little content. Your Refa "Scumbuddy" stuff is hilariously unrelated and your vote isn't doing anything unless you actually have a reason to keep it there sooooooooooo yea

[Darros]

finally back home give me a bit

went to a party last night then worked so thats why I havent posted since yesterday afternoon

[Darros]

maybe not mom and dad made me do chores and it may continue

#ripwyatt2k14

[Phoenix01]

re: ffm

actually i'm feeling pretty good about ffm/shinori atm. pretty good meaning, not scummy. well probably more null in ffm's case, since apparently he's new. anyways, wrt shinori, i think it's a pretty good sign he's trying so hard (iirc he didn't do that as scum, but idr). poly also sorta jumped on this, but not sure how to feel about that.

re: refa

i mentioned that because i wanted refa to respond to it, pretty simple. and he did. my only reasoning is meta (and i don't know half the kids int his game/have played in a while) so that's why there were a lot of idks. either that, or that's how i type now.

re: elieson

this sounds really bad but i'm going to omgus elieson. actually it's not an omgus so let me explain. we started mafia around the same time, so i found it out of place that his tone is lecturing/condescending. also i think it's mostly because this is bullshit reasoning/a bit of a scumtell because scum's reads are generally CONTRIVED and that's the gut feel i'm getting from elieson atm.

##unvote

##elieson

re: everyone else

i'm going to iso later when i get back, but i can only remember like 5 people (out of 15) actually playing in this game which is bad/when i typed up this post everything above is all i remembered. not sure if everyone is trying to lay low or what.

I don't get this reasoning. I mean like sure you started around the same time but that doesn't mean you're going to always be at the same level, different people pick things up faster than others and they're not always going to be at the same level. Also iso'd Elieson and, even though I have my doubts on him too, I don't really see an instance of him being really being condescending. I understand your views on his reads but imo the other things outweigh it, including the fact that this is omgus. Even though you're admitting it it doesn't make it more acceptable, imo.

Also ##vote bearclaw

Hasn't responded to my question from yesterday and could stand to be more active. (Yeah I know I could too)

[Junk]

I predicted that Elieson would do this. He would vote for iris but then switch it to someone else without much of an explanation. Elieson I am curious, how come you think Iris is not scummy? Your vote on Euklyd is not exactly the best either. Is this just a prod vote for more content? There are like 3 other people who have acted the same as Euklyd (poly,Dallas,Phoenix). Not blaming them for not posting much as everyone as reasons in life. but your vote just feels like an excuse to vote is the vibe I am getting.

Also feel as if phoenix's vote on bearclaw was pretty terrible as well. Just feels off for some reason. As if you voted for no reason other than just to say that I voted. Also I thought phoenix might be a new player but he seems to be able to handle himself pretty well. Hmm with that in mind I think I finally need to remove my RVS vote since I keep forgetting to.

##Unvote

[Darros]

FFM said that it looked like Shinori was trying to make a wagon on her. That's why I said that first thing darros quoted. By "off" I meant her logic not the read I was getting from her.

Ooooh, that's not at all how I interpreted your post. That makes sense though, I'm in agreement with you there if you're saying her logic was off. However, I still don't think that's enough to dismiss scumminess. Like if her logic is super "off" that shouldn't be a tip off? Still a huge red flag to me!

also regarding Frosty and his post about "everyone's voting with flimsy reasoning so I might as well". That's only going to get you lynched faster, putting votes on people without reasoning is pretty scummy. Doing something "because other people did it" is a pretty terrible excuse.

@Darros: I think that's kinda my personality, because I'm usually a pretty cautious/conservative guy and that translates into the game as well. Also tbh I'm not sure why people are jumping so much about my suggestion, it was only that.

It's not even that it was a huge OMGUS.

Well, the suggestion just really isn't beneficial to town. We shouldn't be concerned with "who can we clear" because then we just get mafia targets. The cop should be concerned with targeting someone who they think is scum.

1. He never really said he had a scum read on Iris. Don't jump to conclusions.

2. The second part replying to Bear wasn't needed and I felt like you skimmed or something because he was also saying it wasn't a wagon basically.

3. This is kind of important I feel. And it's basically how I felt Bear was reacting towards FFM.

Darros who are you other scum reads? I've cut out most of the less important parts of your last post because there was a lot of it. Whereas I agree with a fair amount of your thoughts you really only stated one solid scum read. Who else is really on your mind?

1. I think it was kind of implied but whatever you say, it's all inference really.

2. He was saying reasons why someone would start a wagon? idk it seemed pretty much like that to me.

you're going to have to stay tuned for my other scum reads, they'll be at the bottom of this post.

Or you could scroll down.

But that'd be rude!

meh I don't think ffm is scum. Feels more like FFM is a new player as well ^^. First of all I seriously doubt scum would make it there posts so obviously scummy like.

I don't understand the logic behind this at all. Even if you're getting a newbie vibe from FFM, dismissing her posts as "oh they're too scummy so she isn't scum!" is ridiculous. If you're seeing her posts as scummy how are you getting notscum vibes from it? I don't understand one bit.

Iris' vote on Elieson was pretty weak but she admitted she was OMGUSing. Although Elie's reaction was indeed pretty incensed. Maybe he was feeling pressure due my vote + Refa's and Iris's.

Imma change my vote to Kopf until he posts something meaningful.

[internal screaming intensifies]

For the record, I've only participated in three games of Mafia: in two of them I was lynched pretty early and the other was my first game so please excuse my scrubbiness.

so you were asked twice why you voted Wen over Elie and then didn't even bother to answer and instead just posted "excuse my scrubbiness". You're completely ignoring questions directed at you. Multiple times! You're just strengthening my scum read on you.

@Meta discussion: I haven't played with you folk in so long that meta is completely useless to me, and I won't be able to catch on to any meta behaviour that anyone is doing. I apologize for that.

I'm saying Refa's higher activity this game makes me think he's town, not scum. This is based on meta, so it's inherently a tentative read.

at this point refa has made about 1 or 2 content posts, that's not really "higher activity" at all.

so

???????

That's kind of a weird read.

My role will not stop scum factional kills, and is in no way a good "exchange" for town, as they gain no benefit from my role triggering. Maybe there was a miscommunication somewhere down the line, or scum!Elieson could've tried to spread this misinterpretation to make an accidental beloved lynch possible.

Nah, Elie's not stupid. I don't think he'd go and try to spread misinformation that the rest of us would know is false, if he's scum. I'm thinking he genuinely thought it was a null night for all. Though I don't see how a lynch leading to a consecutive day phase with no info or kill is powerful at all.

Uh, yeah, thanks for pointing out the obvious, but do you think you could start giving your thoughts on other players instead of dwelling on that issue?

W O W

this is gold coming from you

after you've already been asked to expound on other players and didnt

Darros: has one (1) content post, and most of it is nitpicking (read: filler, imo) and then a bit about FFM. Null, slightly leaning scum.

sorry, I was at a party then I had to work fml

Fuck this.

Not you guys. You're all cool. Something else has happened, and I'm very close to breaking. I'll get something out when I'm calmer.

<3

Hope things work out for you.

so this is what y'all have have been waiting for right? SCUMREADS.

FFM is still my main scumread and now looks about 10 times worse than last night. Good job, you're digging your own grave in my eyes.

At this point, I'm looking into a scum read on Wen. I know he's away at his cousins wedding now ((hope you have a good time mate!)) but he's had the opportunity to post before then and simply hasn't. He's been mentioned a few times, and even had a vote on him, only to come in, question votals, and that's it. He's been around, and we've seen him post, yet there's 0 content whatsoever.

I would say eclipse too, but apparently something happened, and I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Plus, unlike Wen, she hasn't been around. The post she did have was content.

Also did Eurykins disappear completely? nothing in 36 hours. Only 1 content post, and the entirety of it was just ripping on FFM. I think FFM is scum, but he ignored everyone else in the thread, focusing purely on FFM. There was something about vig/Wen in there too but it was weird and I think a joke. What he did seemed to be tunneling, and if he posts more I'd look into it. But at this rate he may not come back.

[Elieson]

I predicted that Elieson would do this. He would vote for iris but then switch it to someone else without much of an explanation. Elieson I am curious, how come you think Iris is not scummy?

Iris's responses have so far, have been unnecessary. I don't see mafia blowing up like that at me, or anyone really, due to having one vote thrown down on them. IMO Town would respond more towards negative attention, where scum would just ignore D1 votes thrown on them until them amass to a threatening level.

Your vote on Euklyd is not exactly the best either. Is this just a prod vote for more content?

No, it's a "You've made this many posts, including that big big list post, and your reads are still poorly founded and you don't have a vote down at all" vote. This to me is screaming noobscum, in that I don't think Euklyd knows where to place a vote, and feels safer just holding onto it than putting it somewhere that might make him look bad or something

So, I didn't prodvote Euklyd, and the rest of your post is thus, not on track with what you think I did, BUT I'll respond to it anyway because i'm a bro like that

There are like 3 other people who have acted the same as Euklyd (poly

Out on a birthday party apparently, so I'm expecting/hoping for something later, in the final 1/3 of the day phase at least

, Dallas

Nikki Minaj is probably one of my strongest townreads at the moment, because his posts have value at least

, Phoenix

has barely any posts at all to analyze

[eclipse]

@Iris: I'm trying, haven't had time for much more than skims and replying to stuff said to me as of yet, I have one or two townreads from that but I'd rather not out them in case I change my mind when I do stuff tonight.

umm yeah.

Not outing townreads - fine. For the reason you stated - sounds self-conscious, which is a scumtell in my books.

meh I don't think ffm is scum. Feels more like FFM is a new player as well ^^. First of all I seriously doubt scum would make it there posts so obviously scummy like.

Don't like the logic behind why FFM isn't scum because of obvscum posts. Perhaps he's newbscum, perhaps his team isn't around or perhaps he still has no idea what he's doing (on either side). My opinion of him will come a bit later.

I have bad experience as meta; plus, I've only been scum, like, once before in NOC (though to be fair I was buddying with him during that one game), and I tend to disapprove of meta anyways unless it's super-different from how someone usually plays.

This guy gets it. Meta is a single tool in the scumhunting kit, not the basis of the universe as we know it.

Uh, yeah, thanks for pointing out the obvious, but do you think you could start giving your thoughts on other players instead of dwelling on that issue?

And with this, FFM is. . .null. The "post the first thing on my mind" is a null tell, as is a sudden shift towards competency. I feel that I'll get a better read off of him as the people he's interacted with flip.

This wall seems noncommittal, and the RP is really getting in the way of everything else.

I predicted that Elieson would do this. He would vote for iris but then switch it to someone else without much of an explanation. Elieson I am curious, how come you think Iris is not scummy? Your vote on Euklyd is not exactly the best either. Is this just a prod vote for more content? There are like 3 other people who have acted the same as Euklyd (poly,Dallas,Phoenix). Not blaming them for not posting much as everyone as reasons in life. but your vote just feels like an excuse to vote is the vibe I am getting.

Also feel as if phoenix's vote on bearclaw was pretty terrible as well. Just feels off for some reason. As if you voted for no reason other than just to say that I voted. Also I thought phoenix might be a new player but he seems to be able to handle himself pretty well. Hmm with that in mind I think I finally need to remove my RVS vote since I keep forgetting to.

##Unvote

Not much of an explanation? I think Elieson did just fine explaining himself. My position on Euklyd will also be. . .later (but the link right above this quote should be a hint). Don't much care for the waffle on Phoenix, though.

Dude, scumhunting based on activity was so 2009.

With that being said. . .

- I'm beginning to dislike Phoenix for commenting without committing/contributing for this long, and given his lack of contribution, the logic behind his vote is weak.

- The more I read of Euklyd, the more that I feel like he's hiding behind RP while saying very little, which is extremely scummy.

- Would like a response from Refa now that Elieson exists

- Darros needs to come to the year 2014

- Iris seems to get side-tracked a lot ("here's stuff on a player ooh look mechanical stuff to comment on!") It's weird, but I haven't decided whether or not this is scummy.

- bearclaw needs contributions, badly

- The rest of you either need to exist, or I don't think you're worth a vote.

Due to the lack of interaction between Phoenix and the rest of the game, I think he'd make a better vig shot. If I had two votes, I'd leave on one bearclaw and put another one on Euklyd for reasons mentioned earlier. However, bold tags are hard, so I'm gonna leave my vote where it is.

[Da Bear]

##Unvote

##Vote: Poly

Because his vote on FFM is poorly explained (unless he's voting her for an overreaction and because he disagrees with where she's putting her vote) and right after said post he discredits his reasoning by saying that, "it could just be a newbie not knowing any better." He also has not mentioned FFM except saying "still think FFM is bad" since. By now he's commented on several other things and said he would look at Iris but hasn't given any other reads that the things he's commenting on are giving him or that he got from that Iris read, he hasn't given any more reasoning for his FFM suspicion either.

Basically he's around and posting but he's not posting reads or furthering the game with his posts (imo).

Ooooh, that's not at all how I interpreted your post. That makes sense though, I'm in agreement with you there if you're saying her logic was off. However, I still don't think that's enough to dismiss scumminess. Like if her logic is super "off" that shouldn't be a tip off? Still a huge red flag to me!

I don't really see how bad logic is a scum tell.