Eurykins Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Ok Tables, you are officially confusing me, WHICH IS THE REAL RULE HERE!? Also, will naturally veto this since I know Kay is the spy. We had 3 passes in the past 2 missions. It really doesn't matter if we have 1 fail vote at this point, since Mission 4 on needs 2+ fail votes to sabotage a mission. Unless you're assuming that one of us 3 from mission 2 and 3 are scum still hiding, there's no reason to object to the mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurykins Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Also, that's kinda funny of you to say that NOW, when all game you've put yourself as impartial and such and seemed to avoid saying that as a whole. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Nevermind that, Read the rules wrong. Was mostly worried that one fail was enough to sabotage this, but if it's 2 or it goes on, I'll agree to it without issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Mission 4.1 proposed by: : Team Proposed: Eurykins, Bluedoom, Kay, Reinfleche Voting YES: Kopfjäger, Eurykins, Bluedoom, Kay, Refa, Frosted Fire Flakes, Reinfleche Voting NO: None Result: Yes - 7, No - 0 Proposal passes The mission has no spies on it so Mission passes. Resistance have successfully won 3 missions! That means it's time for... Assassination Phase: Refa, FFF and Kopf, please discuss who you would like to kill. When you are ready, could the assassin (Refa) please bold his final decision on who to kill. Non-spies are still allowed to talk, but I doubt you have much to say at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Rein Any objections, ladies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Actually let's just do this, I'm not a very patient man. Congrats to Bluedoom if I was wrong. Rein ##bigplays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 http://askhelixfossil.com/#xbp8xa I PUT MY FAITH IN YOU, LORD HELIX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 All the tension!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 THIS COULD BE THE FIRST RESISTANCE VICTORY OF THIS FORUMS OH MY GOD YOU GUYS (this tension is killing me, Tables hurry up and do something ;_;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Living is overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Dammit Refa, I was gonna suggest you aim for Eury. :( Or to be honest... I wish we could kill frosty instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) The Spies have killed Rein, who was... PERCIVAL! Bluedoom, AKA Merlin, survives, meaning: Game over, Resistance wins! Well, that was definitely a short game. 5 Mission proposals total, most games I'm in nowadays go to more like 15-20 as people vote things down a lot more, and don't manage to get a completely clean M2. Seeing that, as a spy, would have certainly ticked me off to something: Bluedoom was either very lucky, or knew something. Refa made a good guess that he was Percival based on it and Rein was Merlin (I think that's what happened at least). It was a somewhat risky play - high risk, high reward, from Bluedoom, for sure; we can see the result. I hope you guys enjoyed it, regardless of how short it ended up being. For those curious, there's a number of other roles we didn't use that could be included in the future - Mordred is a spy who Merlin doesn't know, Oberon is a spy who doesn't know the other spies and who the spies don't know, there's a Good and Evil Lancelot who can sometimes have changes of heart and switch sides (there's sensible ways it works) and a few other gameplay elements such as a cop-like effect called Lady of the Lake which moves around the table after missions and Excalibur to manipulate mission results in certain powerful ways. But well, that's the future. For now thanks to everyone for playing! Edited May 19, 2014 by Tables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 NOW IT'S REIN TIME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 A knight's work is never done I had a decent amount of stuff typed at Manix and some other people over Skype that I may retype and repost because I think it would be helpful for people like what Tables was thinking. I tried pretty hard to come off looking like Merlin so I'm glad that worked out. I think Refa played the best of the spies, and Kopf did well except I think sabotaging Mission 1 is a poor choice as it narrows down options, as seen here. Frosty made a few mistakes that ended up being really costly. Above all I think a spy's job is to be as obstructive as reasonably possible. Approving as little as you can is key. Ultimately, resistance members want to be on missions too, and that's the nature of the game, so spies should really play this up as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Welp, I knew it was one of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurykins Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Woohoo~ Rein, you died for a noble cause. :D *And Kop man, I'm hurt. Why suggest a kill on me? ;_;" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Well, I guessed wrong, oh well. :( Question: Did I do wrong on that first move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I mean, I was hoping mostly to foster mistrust while playing as townie as I could when I did it. Not sure how many of you bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurykins Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 First move = sabotaging first mission? I dunno. I found it weird that, as a townie, you'd be like, "I'll be as impartial as can be, etc. etc." following what happened on said mission. You also seemed to be contributing some thought to the game, but at the same time your posts (at least to me) had a certain distancing factor that didn't strike me as being fully townie intent/posting style. That, and suddenly flopping around on Kay pretty much sealed the deal for me in confirming you as scum (that and FFM listing Kay was making me consider Kay more townie than scum if we were right on FFM's notion/vibe that he was indeed scum). All in all, I'm not sure it was worth it for you to sabotage M1. Either that, or the gameplay that followed up should've seemed more townie-driven, imo. If you're gonna openly sabotage an easy mission, you may as well voice your thoughts/post with as much townie vibe as possible to counteract that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 The issue with sabotaging Mission 1 is it creates a more explicit 50/50 between a spy and resistance member (spies should never sabotage mission 1 with two spies... really there shouldn't be two spies mission 1). Furthermore, depending on whether or not Percival or Morgana are on mission 1, further 50/50s can be made. In this case I had 50/50 odds on every player at the start of Mission 2, which is far easier to deal with than sorting out 3 spies from the 6 other players. Naturally you couldn't be sure who was Percival but the point still stands sabotaging Mission 1 is quite a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Lol I was trying to play like Percival myself hahahaha I wasn't surprised that Rein was Percival though. I thought Wen played well until he flip-flopped on the second team proposal for mission 2. I kind of felt the real blow was FFM's slip, which isn't so bad when he's new to this whole thing. BUT YES FINALLY THE FIRST RESISTANCE WIN ON SF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 This was my first Resistance game too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 REFA WHY DIDN'T YOU WAIT I was going to say it was Bluedoom If you had waited we would have won god dammit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Spies sabotaging M1 or not is an interesting decision, it's gotten a fair bit of debate among experienced Resistance players. I think the general consensus seems to be: Maybe? Sabotaging M1 leaves the Resistance in a pretty tough spot in many ways - they need to score a pass in M2 or M3 or it's game over. They have some information towards doing that, but not enough to accurately pick out three Resistance members. However, if they do pass any of M2 or M3, they'll probably pass the rest until M4 - just like what happened in this game - unless there was a spy undercover on one of those missions. So it's a kinda risky but potentially strong play - and either way has a good chance of causing a fairly swift game. Passing M1 gains you a little town cred - how much depends on the group/groupthink, and keeps you undercover. It also however puts you in a slightly tough position - if M2 or M3 is clean, chances are the Resistance are about to win (as M4 is easier than M2/3, and you've already given them a point in M1), so you better hope your team can fail both M2 and M3 as a result of the passed M1. In general the spy team win slightly more often if they fail M1 than if they don't, but there's a meta issue that begins to creep in: If you always sabotage it, you often look suspicious after a failed M1, even if you weren't the one who sabotaged this time. You do gain some potential town cred from it, as a meta argument ("I always fail M1, M1 passed, therefore I'm not a spy"), which is something as well. If you never sabotage, you're lowering your chance of winning AND throwing away opportunities to make the former situation (making people who sabotage often look bad) occur. So for M1, there's no clear cut best strategy for sabotaging or not. With a bigger game (3 players on M1) it's much better for spies to sabotage the first mission, but again there comes the possibility of occasionally passing to look more town, especially if you expect M2 to be M1+1 and you think you can make the +1 look bad. TL;DR: I think failing M1 was a good play. Spies got kinda unlucky that M2 got voted through, but I think assassination loss was definitely a big threat from the moment it happened. And if Refa had waited to talk a little longer, this might have swung the other way as a result. That's the danger of Merlin giving the clean mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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