whats with the Emmeryn hate i keep hearing about?

[Elieson]

Her admirable plan of CHANGING King Gangrel for the better was just that, admirable, but what ended up happening anyway? Chrom KILLED Gangrel, right? The only explaination you get is in the DLC where Gangrel is not only magically reborn, but has had a slight change of heart only because he didn't really know what else to do.

It ended the war, but Chrom defeating Gangrel would've just as likely ended the war following a speech made by Emmeryn while atop the ?Bone? thing. She put her brother and sister through immense heartbreak, and left her home kingdom entrusted to Chrom, the kid who'd rather be out as a Shepard than running his own domain as a Prince.

THUS, Emmeryn's miraculous sacrifice was entirely selfish, and all for naught. What would've happened if Gangrel and his men did kill Emm that day? Would Plegia have rejoiced and continued their crusade on Ylisse? She could have just as easily held her arms up and said "Take me, if you truly believe it to be the best decision for our future" etc etc, and take a stand by not taking a stand, per se.

I dunno, I just view Emm as selfish. She singlehandedly traumatized her brother, all because she senselessly hoped that a homocidal king would change his personality by her herself committing suicide. It's almost astonishing how naive she was, and it reaks of her being a child, or of a childish mindset, which doesn't make sense for a person in her position.

No reaction.

She put all her eggs in a basket, and ultimately, Gangrel ended up getting killed because:

Gangrel was unaffected by her suicide

Chrom was fucking pissed that Emm, in the end, died

She didn't think it out that well, and is lucky that Gangrel didn't just go even more nuts and kill her brother with the army he owned, and the army of random zombie archers that magically appeared below Emm that she'd have to be blind not to notice from up there.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Elieson

[RJWalker]

Emmeryn coming back to life doesn't bother me nearly as much as her being turned into anmesiac waifu material. Because with this game, we apparently need to include as many fetishes as possible. Emmeryn in this case is the one that disgusts me the most.

[Jotari]

Emmeryn coming back to life doesn't bother me nearly as much as her being turned into anmesiac waifu material. Because with this game, we apparently need to include as many fetishes as possible. Emmeryn in this case is the one that disgusts me the most.

I was reading through these last few pages wondering why no one had brought this up. In my mind it's more disturbing than the whole Nowi thing. Amenesia!Emm acts like a five year old as well as being mindless. Taking advantage of someone like that is akin to rape. They clearly aren't in any mindset to give willful consent.

Though one thing I am happy that Emm sacrifice is that it gave us Don't Speak Her Name, possibly one of the best pieces in the game.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Jotari

[Czar_Yoshi]

I was reading through these last few pages wondering why no one had brought this up. In my mind it's more disturbing than the whole Nowi thing. Amenesia!Emm acts like a five year old as well as being mindless. Taking advantage of someone like that is akin to rape. They clearly aren't in any mindset to give willful consent.

Last minute addition? I doubt that. They are intended as marriage fodder for the Avatar. And that's exactly what they provide.

Emmeryn herself is the best example for that because it's not just that she doesn't support her siblings. Having no memory means nothing less then her loosing everything that made her the person she was, including being the sister of Chrom and Lissa. She has become an entirely different character who consequently wouldn't even have anything to say to the two of them. There would be no reason to bring her back under those circumstances unless she is merely intended for marriage.

And as a waifu, the amnesia is a huge improvement. She is confused, vulnerable and dependant like an infant. That gives her a massive moe appeal.

[Jotari]

I meant more of the fact of how wrong and immoral it is. Not that she was simply thrown in to marry the Avatar.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ah, OK.

[PuffPuff]

THUS, Emmeryn's miraculous sacrifice was entirely selfish, and all for naught. What would've happened if Gangrel and his men did kill Emm that day? Would Plegia have rejoiced and continued their crusade on Ylisse? She could have just as easily held her arms up and said "Take me, if you truly believe it to be the best decision for our future" etc etc, and take a stand by not taking a stand, per se.

I dunno, I just view Emm as selfish. She singlehandedly traumatized her brother, all because she senselessly hoped that a homocidal king would change his personality by her herself committing suicide. It's almost astonishing how naive she was, and it reaks of her being a child, or of a childish mindset, which doesn't make sense for a person in her position.

...And how painfully naive to pull a Mahanya (FE4) reference to not notice Phila and Cordelia's sisters deaths. It was pretty selfish with what she done to only put her brother, sister, and Cordelia through heartbreak. Everyone else will be relieved of her sacrifice after Gangrel's men started falling apart, but Lissa and Chrom will go through anguish. -.-

Cordelia will feel anguish upon her sisters departing from the world.

She didn't stop to think first before going to Gangrel to settle his dispute upon the continent and leaping off of the cliff. Cordelia's sisters died for her to allow her to safely make it to Gangrel and for who for what? A simple apology before leaping off the cliff isn't sufficient either. Other than this...she still gets my respect for making the right decision for her oversoft trait. :3

But...she's not all sunshine and rainbows either.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Barbie

[Moira]

I dunno, I just view Emm as selfish. She singlehandedly traumatized her brother, all because she senselessly hoped that a homocidal king would change his personality by her herself committing suicide. It's almost astonishing how naive she was, and it reaks of her being a child, or of a childish mindset, which doesn't make sense for a person in her position.

Woah gosh I took her suicide as her not allowing Chrom to choose to give the emblem away so that Emmeryn would "live" (which she wouldn't have anyways obviously) and also not have him live with the burden of letting her die, because that would have really messed Chrom up. She was also taking out the success of the execution by "willfully" dying. I really didn't see her goal as changing Gangrel's heart.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Fluorspar

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

as much as i dislike this game, fluorspar makes more sense about that section of this discussion.

[BrightBow]

Woah gosh I took her suicide as her not allowing Chrom to choose to give the emblem away so that Emmeryn would "live" (which she wouldn't have anyways obviously) and also not have him live with the burden of letting her die, because that would have really messed Chrom up. She was also taking out the success of the execution by "willfully" dying. I really didn't see her goal as changing Gangrel's heart.

Maybe not from Gangrel in particular but she felt entitled enough to believe that her suicide would change the mind of just about everyone:

Emmeryn: See now that one selfless act has the power to change the world!

Edited May 23, 2014 by BrightBow

[Czar_Yoshi]

Woah gosh I took her suicide as her not allowing Chrom to choose to give the emblem away so that Emmeryn would "live" (which she wouldn't have anyways obviously) and also not have him live with the burden of letting her die, because that would have really messed Chrom up. She was also taking out the success of the execution by "willfully" dying. I really didn't see her goal as changing Gangrel's heart.

I'm pretty sure that this was what the writers intended

Maybe not from Gangrel in particular but she felt entitled enough to believe that her suicide would change the mind of just about everyone:

Emmeryn: See now that one selfless act has the power to change the world!

and this was what actually happened. Might as well chalk it up to bad writing?

[Zaprong]

I'm sad that nobody pointed out that you can make an amnesiac family thanks to her (MU, Morgan and Emmeryn)

[Phoenix Wright]

i think this game could have benefited from a little dosage of aw: days of ruin. probably would've helped a bit.

[Duke of Dozel]

I'm sad that nobody pointed out that you can make an amnesiac family thanks to her (MU, Morgan and Emmeryn)

They did. Check Page 2.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i think this game could have benefited from a little dosage of aw: days of ruin. probably would've helped a bit.

what does this mean?

cause that game was the one that killed the franchise.

[Phoenix Wright]

i mean if they wanted their story to be serious, they should have actually made it so that the characters acknowledged the "hellness" of war, as days of ruin did (and from another genre and series, spec ops: the line), it would have been a less pants-on-head retarded story with overall extremely dull main protagonists. i can't emphasize how boring the main characters are.

and no idea why. the game is fantastic. i think people simply stopped giving a shit about the series, so it's not due to any faults of the game itself. i can't think of any reason why it should be considered a "worse" game than 1, 2, or dual strike. other than, "this isn't the spirit of advance wars, man," which is bogus.

edit: this is arguing from the perspective that awakening intended to be a more serious game, and not satirical or intentionally stupid/silly. comedic aspects, yes, but a more serious game, nonetheless. it has been argued before (because there's been billions of topics on how shitty/not shitty this game's story) that the real intention of the writers was to be satirical. i disagree.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Phoenix Wright

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i mean if they wanted their story to be serious, they should have actually made it so that the characters acknowledged the "hellness" of war, as days of ruin did (and from another genre and series, spec ops: the line), it would have been a less pants-on-head retarded story with overall extremely dull main protagonists. i can't emphasize how boring the main characters are.

and no idea why. the game is fantastic. i think people simply stopped giving a shit about the series, so it's not due to any faults of the game itself. i can't think of any reason why it should be considered a "worse" game than 1, 2, or dual strike. other than, "this isn't the spirit of advance wars, man," which is bogus.

edit: this is arguing from the perspective that awakening intended to be a more serious game, and not satirical or intentionally stupid/silly. comedic aspects, yes, but a more serious game, nonetheless. it has been argued before (because there's been billions of topics on how shitty/not shitty this game's story) that the real intention of the writers was to be satirical. i disagree.

alright your arguement makes sense and yes i do agree thats what they should've done.

i disagree on the opinion of how good DoR is but thats not the subject and we can all have different opinions, thanks for explaining it though.

if you do want to hear out my side, pm me, otherwise nvm and i'll keep it out of the topic, it no big deal

Edited May 23, 2014 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Czar_Yoshi]

i mean if they wanted their story to be serious, they should have actually made it so that the characters acknowledged the "hellness" of war, as days of ruin did (and from another genre and series, spec ops: the line), it would have been a less pants-on-head retarded story with overall extremely dull main protagonists. i can't emphasize how boring the main characters are.

With the exception of Awakening, FE in general has a pretty decent track record with this, so I'd also assume it was at least intended to be serious.

[Moira]

Maybe not from Gangrel in particular but she felt entitled enough to believe that her suicide would change the mind of just about everyone:

Emmeryn: See now that one selfless act has the power to change the world!

On my first playthrough I took this to mean that not allowing the Fire Emblem to get into the wrong hands would be the power to change the world and was hopefully not based on legends and rumors. It seems silly to me to think that Emmeryn wanted everyone to lay down their arms because of her sacrifice. (she doesn't seem this naive to me personally but it certainly comes off that way). She probably could've given a pretty effective speech but she didn't have a lot of time to plan for it (even if the writers did) so I can't be too harsh to her. To me, her entire little speech sounded like she was trying to show the Plegians that she really didn't want conflict at all and it's going to bring both nations down.

and this was what actually happened. Might as well chalk it up to bad writing?

I hate to constantly blame bad writing and sound like a broken record blaming the writing but the writing is bad.

[Loki Laufeyson]

And as a waifu, the amnesia is a huge improvement. She is confused, vulnerable and dependant like an infant. That gives her a massive moe appeal.

The implications of that is so gross, mang. I know you are hyperbole-ing here but, eeeeeaggghhhh. Revived!Emmeryn is even more disgusting than the original (and she fucking sucked before).

I found a comic that encapsulates the problems with Emmeryn pretty well

That sign should read: "SHIT FOR HONOR!"

Great comic.

So...

Emmeryn gets my eternal respect.

Nice to know that you respect someone who had no real care for her nation as a whole, was dumb as a bloody post, and had no real honor.

Maybe not from Gangrel in particular but she felt entitled enough to believe that her suicide would change the mind of just about everyone:

Emmeryn: See now that one selfless act has the power to change the world!

Yeah its pretty goddamn cringeworthy.

[Moira]

I honestly wish I remembered the first 8ish chapter of the game so I could accurately judge her leadership skills. Sadly, the only part I remember with Emmeryn is her death.

Nice to know that you respect someone who had no real care for her nation as a whole, was dumb as a bloody post, and had no real honor.

Could you explain this? From what I remember she seemed pretty devoted to her country. (also would like to hear about her intelligence/honor)

Edited May 24, 2014 by Fluorspar

[Loki Laufeyson]

An honorable leader does not feel entitled enough to jump off a fucking cliff for a sense of sacrifice. A good leader actually tries to lead instead of making stupid decisions to remain in a situation that actually puts her and her nation at risk. Jumping off that cliff basically said "im trying to make a statement but im also pretty much saying 'Come Invade My Country'."

Gross

Edited May 24, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson

[Moira]

An honorable leader does not feel entitled enough to jump off a fucking cliff for a sense of sacrifice. A good leader actually tries to lead instead of making stupid decisions to remain in a situation that actually puts her and her nation at risk. Jumping off that cliff basically said "im trying to make a statement but im also pretty much saying 'Come Invade My Country'."

Gross

You're referencing stupid decisions but I can't tell what you're referrign to. Like I honestly can't remember what decisions she made besides jumping off the cliff. And do you really think her jumping off the cliff was a bad idea? Seems like the best decision to me in that situation.

[IceBrand]

You're referencing stupid decisions but I can't tell what you're referrign to. Like I honestly can't remember what decisions she made besides jumping off the cliff. And do you really think her jumping off the cliff was a bad idea? Seems like the best decision to me in that situation.

Basically Chrom was given a choice of either giving the Fire Emblem to Gangrel or sacrifice Emmeryn. An Emmeryn chose for Chrom by jumping head first into the ground.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I honestly wish I remembered the first 8ish chapter of the game so I could accurately judge her leadership skills. Sadly, the only part I remember with Emmeryn is her death.

A general overview of earlygame stuff that's Emmeryn-related:

Between Cht.1-2: She allows Avatar into her throne room, even though he's a) armed and b) wearing Grimleal robes, before checking if it's safe. She notices him after a while, Fred says he's suspicious, Chrom says he's cool. She takes Chrom's word over Fred's. In light of the Risen and possibly the Plegian bandits, she sends Chrom and all his goons to Ferox to request reinforcements, leaving the capital defended by Pegasus Knights.

Around Cht.5: She walks to the border to meet with Gangrel, despite the facts that a) he's armed, and b) Avatar, Chrom, Fred and Phila all say no. Gangrel then demands the Fire Emblem and Emmeryn is confused when he says he wants to use it to obliterate Ylisse. Chrom gets in a tussle with the Plegians, stomps them and saves Maribelle, and everyone retreats to the capital.

Around Cht.6: Chrom gives Avatar a long speech about Emmeryn's goodness that Marth likes. Emmeryn is then beset by assassins, and Chrom and co. come to save her. If Chrom talks to Emmeryn, she tells him to take Lissa and run, even though he's armed and she's not. After the battle, Emmeryn is unaware of the fate of the Taguel. Chrom then tells her to run before more assassins come, and she refuses, but Fred then talks her into it.

Around Cht.7: Emmeryn is betrayed by an adviser who didn't exist previously, and decided to turn around and return to the capital even though her finest forces bar Chrom just got roflstomped by Plegia. To make matters worse, she's not taking Chrom, only the captain of the incompetent Pegasi. Additionally, she announces her plan to leave before convincing Phila to come with her, indicating that she may have been prepared to hike back to Ylisstol alone. There's also a much larger army than the one Chrom just spanked half a day behind them, which she'd walk directly into. Chrom, Lissa and Phila all say no, but Emmeryn quickly talks Phila into it. For some reason, Frederick agrees with Emmeryn. She tells Chrom to take the Fire Emblem to safety in Ferox (of course, he doesn't leave it there) and get reinforcements... Despite just getting them 3 chapters ago. She is immediately kidnapped upon separation from Chrom, on which Frederick has no comment.

Around Cht.9: Emmeryn is silent before the battle, you know what happens afterword.

In short, most of the "Emmeryn is a great ruler" stuff comes from two paragraphs Chrom said in Cht.6. She never actually makes any decisions on behalf of her nation. Chrom is actually the one in charge even when Emmeryn is alive, as he forges a diplomatic alliance with Ferox (remember, they respect the strong and have no need for courtesy, and neither of the Khan ever even meets Emmeryn), officially starts the war with Plegia by killing a soldier, and furthermore every battle Ylisse wins has him leading the charge, and in every battle they lose he's nowhere to be seen. Chrom can use Falchion and wears the Fire Emblem on his arm, to boot, and he still has time to run around the countryside protecting villages from bandits and Risen. Who are the villagers going to respect more, the Queen who sits in a castle and doesn't do anything, or the Prince who runs around with a sword trashing bozos (hint: Emmeryn doesn't even get a funeral, but Chrom's coronation is attended by cheering masses)? Peasants throw rocks at Emmeryn and feasts for Chrom.

Of note, Frederick is the only person who's ever changed Emmeryn's mind about something.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi