British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Sunwoo]

Makaze, please never do what you did in this game ever again. As it currently stands, I never want to play another game with you, nor do I ever want you let you play in a game that I run. Your "scum hunting", if it even amounts to that, was self-centered and you hurt town more than you helped it by leading us on dumb tangents (such as third party spec at a point when it should have ended in early D2) and whatever slapfight you and Cam were having in D1 over Junko. Notice how everyone involved was TOWN? You are more likely to trip up town than scum when you purposely act like scum.

The way you were asking for claims was awful, and trying to defend yourself with "well I only asked scum to do so" and "my votes were only on scum" is not a defense. It doesn't matter if you have your votes on scum. You did absolutely NOTHING to push your scum reads. You were either on the defense or picking away at people who suspected you (Eury, Cam). That completely lessens the effect of your votes being on scum, not to mention your stubbornness in tunneling Eury and Cam on the final day could have cost town the game. You looked like you were trying to lead the town when you had no business trying to lead anyone, and you did not seem to listen to people either.

Basically, anti-town kept you alive because they were hoping you'd lose the game for town. Don't be that person.

[Zkirsche]

Yeah Makaze who'd want to play with a terrible player like you anyway git gud scrub. Man I've never had bad cases that I've stuck to all game and been wrong about scum, I mean, who DOES that?

Edit: Sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious.

Edited June 28, 2014 by kirsche

[Shinori]

I lost most will to play this game when I came into the game day 1 and both my buddies were already being wagoned and on the chopping block.

WRT the outing the SK, you'd think most people would have just brushed it off as WIFOM considering it was also an "Eff you town" thing, outside of that I know it was a dick move and I don't necessarily intend to do it again. If people believed me game ended cause Kirsche died. If people didn't believe me then Kirsche probably woulda' lived and killed a lot of town.

Also it's not like shit has happened like that on this site before. Didn't Cam or Psych once out their entire scum team before? Don't start to try to give me TONS of flack for Wifoming when I'm dead as an Eff you to both other factions when people have done similar or other things and either gotten less flack or none.

[Zkirsche]

Noone's really giving you slack just a "please don't do it again". Noone likes being told "Eff you" :(

[Sunwoo]

At this point, I'm pretty sure you and I just have a lot of disagreements on people's behaviors in games, kirsche, so I'm not even going to touch that part. But I'm not upset at Makaze because he was a "terrible player" or because he had "bad cases" or things like that. Everyone screws up in mafia and has bad games. I'm annoyed at the way he conducted himself in the game. And after he outright admitted that he did what he did to learn about people's "meta" and less to scum hunt, I'm even more irritated because that shit is anti-town as fuck and not what mafia is about. Mafia is a team game, and he was not a team player at all. And yet, he is acting like he is proud of what he did.

[BBM]

how is jailer an obv town role? I'm pretty sure mafia jailers have existed?

it was obvtown because there was a dead mafia hooking role

[Shin]

I'm glad people had fun in general! It was challenging hosting something this big as a first game! I've learned a lot and look forward to confusing you when I play next... or even in three years when I host another game!

[MRDRHAWK]

I wish I hadn't had REEL TEA shit messing with my ability to puraegaym because this coulda been fun

still, gg town

[Paperblade]

also spoilers

making everyone else hate you and want you out of the game regardless of your alignment is not playing selfish mafia properly

Edited June 29, 2014 by Paperblade

[Makaze]

Makaze, please never do what you did in this game ever again. As it currently stands, I never want to play another game with you, nor do I ever want you let you play in a game that I run. Your "scum hunting", if it even amounts to that, was self-centered and you hurt town more than you helped it by leading us on dumb tangents (such as third party spec at a point when it should have ended in early D2) and whatever slapfight you and Cam were having in D1 over Junko. Notice how everyone involved was TOWN? You are more likely to trip up town than scum when you purposely act like scum.

The way you were asking for claims was awful, and trying to defend yourself with "well I only asked scum to do so" and "my votes were only on scum" is not a defense. It doesn't matter if you have your votes on scum. You did absolutely NOTHING to push your scum reads. You were either on the defense or picking away at people who suspected you (Eury, Cam). That completely lessens the effect of your votes being on scum, not to mention your stubbornness in tunneling Eury and Cam on the final day could have cost town the game. You looked like you were trying to lead the town when you had no business trying to lead anyone, and you did not seem to listen to people either.

Basically, anti-town kept you alive because they were hoping you'd lose the game for town. Don't be that person.

It's depressing that you would go that far but I understand why you are so invested.

A silver lining (not a defense): There is some value in playing with... different... types of people, as the social experiment goes. As a silver lining to playing with someone with a bad attitude, you gained a little bit of an idea of what it would be like to hunt mafia in a more organic real-life scenario. This motivation did not drive my play but maybe it can give you some solace. You'll have the experience either way; may as well find something to gain from it.

At this point, I'm pretty sure you and I just have a lot of disagreements on people's behaviors in games, kirsche, so I'm not even going to touch that part. But I'm not upset at Makaze because he was a "terrible player" or because he had "bad cases" or things like that. Everyone screws up in mafia and has bad games. I'm annoyed at the way he conducted himself in the game. And after he outright admitted that he did what he did to learn about people's "meta" and less to scum hunt, I'm even more irritated because that shit is anti-town as fuck and not what mafia is about. Mafia is a team game, and he was not a team player at all. And yet, he is acting like he is proud of what he did.

I'm sorry for misleading you. It's a fact that I did what I did with reckless indifference to the outcomes but I am not proud of that. Even if it were to please myself, it failed to do so. It stands to be said that nothing I did was intentionally anti-town and that I did not know any better, but that doesn't mean it was done with pro-town at heart, either. If I seem unrepentant it's because I have trouble feeling regret when I know I'm gambling; when I throw the dice, I don't regret it even if I lose. It is hard to feel bad when your heart was not in your success in the first place. I regret joining this game in the first place more than any individual move. The thing I feel worst about is your negative opinion of me. I suppose you are right not to enable me. I hope you will give me chances in the future.

What makes me less depressed/'proud' about the game is that I managed to read scum so successfully even while playing so badly. It makes me feel good because I feel that even in the midst of so many anti-town decisions, my ability to read scum did not suffer. I feel good about that one thing because people said I did great in my first game but I managed to be wrong about scum for most of the game (excepting Junko). This is not about my play but about my personal confidence in my reading ability. Not to be confused with a defense of my actual public play style.

The particular actions that I need to change are obvious. I learned a lot about how to play and how not to play. These are still self-serving motivations, but I think they will have good outcomes in the long run. The only way for me to learn these lessons is to violate them or see them taught to someone else. I probably learned more this game than I would have over several by playing normally:

Do not AtE

Do not be defensive

Do not role fish

Do not reaction test when the reaction will not give a specific tell

Do not self-meta or rolespec

What you can and cannot rolespec off of

What makes sense as certain roles

I promise you I will not force you to relive my play this game. I know better now and have much less reason to be so jaded as I was. I will always see this game as a building block to better play. A more cautiously played game could not given me such a learning experience. If the choice were between dragging these bad moves out over multiple games and making all of these mistakes in one game, I'm glad it happened in one game. In summary, I respect the complaints against me. I did not know better, and you taught me. I can't bring myself to feel bad about how things turned out, aside from Sangyul's harsh feelings.

[Prims]

Prims does self serving things too (eg telling people to suicide onto his scumreads).

yea i own

also fakeclaiming for no reason which made it hilarious when people thought my dayvig was a serious attempt at a gambit. i really just wanted to express frustration with bbm

[CT075]

what made it even more amazing was baldrick pulling the same trick on makaze later and having it work

[Prims]

A good way to put it is that you only do self-serving things if you have the experience to know you can pull it off; otherwise it results in shit like Objection claiming dayvig in CYOR for no reason without even faking shots on anybody.

[Makaze]

what made it even more amazing was baldrick pulling the same trick on makaze later and having it work

＿|￣|○

[Sunwoo]

"Self-centered" scum hunting only works if people are experienced enough to pull that shit, which a lot of people aren't. I wouldn't try it personally, even if I've had ~2 years of SF mafia experience under my belt at this point. More importantly, it's being a "team player" that's more important and not distracting town with things that don't benefit town as a whole.

"Reaction tests," such as faking a dayvig or a guilty on a random person, can be really annoying. But if they're done right, they can help not only the person who pulled the test, but every other player in the game, form reads. If you're going to use a self-centered form of scum hunting, you need to make sure what you're doing is not a distraction to town, WILL benefit town, and most importantly be able to listen to others and know when you're able to reconsider.

tl;dr

Don't try to be the hero. Mafia is a team game.

[eclipse]

If you have to justify any part of your action as a reaction test, to make sure you're not going to be lynched over it, you're not doing it right.

[Prims]

also faking dayvigs / faking guilties only works if A) the target is inexperienced enough to fall for it B) it hasn't been done in a while, I can basically never fakevig or fakeguilty anybody here anymore because everybody will just assume I'm fucking with them on meta. Hell if I got an actual guilty I probably wouldn't even claim it unless I was really struggling to get the player lynched (well, I'd probably play like that even without the meta).

[Prims]

I can basically never fakevig or fakeguilty anybody here anymore

except BBM, apparently

[Sunwoo]

Also, I find it amusing that I have one of the highest post counts in this game. (It would be a problem if I still had THE highest post count, though, since I died back in N2.)

[FrostyFireMage]

It'd be nice if I could play a mafia game where I don't come close to getting lynched Day One.

[Bluedoom]

Makaze fwiw I thought you were obvtown by virtue of your AtE. That said you should tone it down. I mean its not bad to say your gameplay doesn't make sense as scum and defend yourself from there but you should do that in limited amounts. Sometimes an argument is just not worth it and you're better of using your time to scum hunt.

FFM its ok you'll reach that status someday.

[Refa]

I think I had more posts in this game than Elieson.

[Junk]

actually you had one less post before you said that so now it's a tie.

[Makaze]

It'd be nice if I could play a mafia game where I don't come close to getting lynched Day One.

At least you're not me.

[MRDRHAWK]

It'd be nice if I could play a mafia game where I don't come close to getting lynched Day One.

I had that problem when I first joined SF mafia. You'll get better.