Doomsday Clock Mafia - Town/ITP Win

[Grace]

~role~

like really. it's not that hard to see what i'm doing here

[Shinori]

Lol. Manix marth and Refa are like the only posters this is some weird shiz.

[Shinori]

Have to read some.

[Elieson]

@BBM-

I've got nothing wrong with his earlygame thing on kirsche

@Refa-I trusted you because from my history of seeing people perform ridiculous reaction tests with obvious roleclaim/crumbs in them, they're almost always town. That was a good reaction test, and I'd have found him town even if he didn't provide that boring detailed explanation of his reads. He's only more townie after that imo.

SB's #62 highlights the exact reason why I said "more than meets the eye"

I think Kirsche V BBM is making Kirsche look like he's not analyzing what BBM is saying in most of his posts, and just skimming. No reads were gained from this effort.

FFM's #81 attacks me for calling him out as "standing out the most", when I was the first to vote him for an actual reason. While I thought Refa had /something/ going on as far as a reaction test that I didn't want to out until marth had posted, FFM's assumption of "Refa's either telling the truth and is town or is lying and is scummy" was far too Black&White for a casual analysis of a case. I guess this is a response to Mitsuki et al, so if you want me to clarify anything else...reread this, it's pretty much the only thing going through my mind at the time.

#87: Thanks for the compliment? I could support your case on scorri actually (also because i'm super townreading you and too distracted to think for myself).

_________________________________

#88 Ok scorri's reaction on the kirschevotepressure seems more genuine. I'd think that anyone as scum trying to push a vote would try to include some sort of justification, and pretty much stay away from the word "gut".

Various justifications on FFM's vote on me made sense. Other reads from RefaXMarth rxntest seem overall decent. Little stands out, aside from reads on FFM and #99 by SB stood out to me because he called scorri a he, but like I said, i don't mind scorri or SB

Mitsuki's holding back reads in #100, and that's not good. There's no town reason to bide time to sheep cases.

_____________________________________

(After getting current)-#108 by BBM looks like a flipflop to his current read on me -with the reaction test and all-

SB said BBM is tunneling on FFM with his vote, but BBM spent a ton of time bickering with kirsche so it's not quite the truth. He hasn't been all overtheplace in a way that BBM usually is, but meta-reading isn't good unless it's used on Paperblade, so I'm not confident enough to call it distracted!town or scum

Mits' #154 reads as scummy to me too. The vagueness of "someone else" reads scummy. I don't care if it's semantics-y, it's reading as scummy

Darros' justification is meh passable. Admittedly, I don't have much of anything on the Poly, so i can't really associate Darros with being scummy just on that.

The rest isn't affecting my reads too much at this point

And that's as far as the end of D1 with a quick skim of D2. since Outlook is down at work, i've got some time to read moar

[Elieson]

At first I didn't even notice that SB died, i had to reread the flip because Neko was lazy with his verbage

let's play a game: it's called "why is refa not dead"

I was wondering this too

scorri/poly need to content harder btw

Doesn't like everyone that isn't you, refa and Marth need to content harder?

I think SB was killed by an SK and that doc protected correctly. Wincon's wording makes me think that in top of the scumteam there's an SK and a harmless 3rd; wincon says town wins when they neutralize all the hostile factions, which means there's more than one antitown faction but also a non-hostile faction.
Assuming this is true, do you guys think it's 10/2/1/1 or 9/3/1/1? I think it's 10/2/1/1 but I'm bad at this so I need opinions from others.
... Now that I think of it, it doesn't need to be an SK, right? But I still think there's some sort of harmful 3rd.

Wincon spec isn't helping hunt scum, and neither is numbers spec, and neitherneither is killspec.

The response didn't look townie to me, it looked genuine; it didn't seem like Darros was faking that he didn't believe what he was doing is scummy and I wanted to consider that reaction to see if it was indicative of towniness. Upon thinking I think that scum wouldn't have that kind of reaction often and I'm not sure my Darros suspicion is that strong (as well as the cases on him, for what I remember). Now I want to see more from him to decide on if he's scummy or not. I consider him null.

I don't like this. Marth doesn't bother to explain why we shouldn't townread people, and just generalizes that all the townreads are bad. It looks like scum fearing PoE and trying to spread suspicion to other players who people are clearing.


Similar. Also there are other players with a ton of townreads who only got one scumread (me included), why is this indicative of alignment? Considering the amount of content D1 I think this is normal. Also BBM scumread Kirsche at some point.
This seems like not looking at the whole picture and context for the sake of scumreading someone.

I also think that suspecting people on them basing their reads on tone is not strong, specially at this point of the game or before. Not much's happened, and town can read people based on tone as well if they think it's relevant. It seems like Marth is deliberately choosing to interpret it as scum behaviour because it's convenient for him.
Picking sides seems just a way to make the whole "basing their reads on tone" thing seem stronger. Just because something could be convenient for scum doesn't make it scum behaviour, and when you take this premise in mind Marth's reads based on picking sides don't hold anymore.

##Vote: Marth


@Kirsche: Thoughts on the game?

That marth case looks extremely forced; cherrypicking what he is saying and she's invalidating her own case (from the first underlined bit to the second underlined bit)

I did; I have a strong feeling that the scumteam is comprised of Elie/Shinori/Eury almost purely off PoE

Not like I think early D2 PoE is an unlikely thing from SF, but why didn't you mention Poly in this bunch?

>don't have scumreads
>have PoE

it's still kinda convenient that they're all inactives. is there seriously no active player that is remotely scummy?

Not like I think early D2 PoE is an unlikely thing from SF, but why didn't you mention Poly in this bunch?

##Vote Mitsuki

##FoS scorri

scorri needs to do something more than just him and haw on her kirsche read. And I know I haven't said much on Shinori, but I've got a gut on him

Scum: Mitsuki >> scorri/inactives(Poly, Eury) > Shinori

[Grace]

i was going to sleep, but my mind decided that it was time to #yolo

darros: you have 48 hours to live. make them count.

[Grace]

i got tired of holding onto my role. i was considering making bbm a very dead person but i'd rather do this

[Grace]

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

speaking of

[Zkirsche]

and better yet: why target an inactive bbm? when vigs could exist and vig them out and then your result is completely useless.

Town probably does not have the vigshots or the time to shoot every single inactive so I don't see why cops can't investigate there?

a) You're missing the point. If you're townreading people for weak reasons and then try getting scumreads by PoE that isn't good play at all.

Before you kind of implied that having a lot of townreads alone is a good indication of scumminess, so what about having good, well thought townreads? Do you think the townreading BBM/Refa/others are doing is formed from a weak basis.

@Manix: are you dayvigging Darros?

##vote: Darros until confirmation.

Can you guys please not spam post.

[Zkirsche]

Also doesn't that kind of contradict your suspicion of BBM based on role? Unless it's a guilty report.

Still don't buy the reasoning that BBM is mafia for fakeclaiming a role similar to yours? You could argue that he wasn't planning on fakeclaiming but then you should've waited to find out.

[Grace]

i'm time delayed vig

i basically get to send a nuke at someone and then they die in 48 hours, and nothing can stop it

i've just gone and sent it darros's way

[Grace]

Also doesn't that kind of contradict your suspicion of BBM based on role?

uh

please quote where i said that.

[Grace]

also in regards to said nuke: i suspect it might advance the doomsday clock but i literally do not know if it does.

[Bluedoom]

oh fuck

uhhh

##Unvote ##Vote: Scorri

GG Darros

And Manix you crumbed your role so hard I'm glad that you're using it today

[Grace]

marf: tbf i could use it literally any time i wanted, even during the night

realistically that was never going to be a problem

[Elieson]

darros: you have 48 hours to live. make them count.

If you're Time-Delayed Anyvig, would your target still die if phase were to end early, and/or does phase end early when your target dies?

[Grace]

neither; they just die in 48 hours of me sending the command, regardless of day/night phase

[scorri]

Her last D1 post came at a time when kirsche and FFM were tied. She doesn't specify her lynch priority in her wallpost so its hard to tell what would have happened if she was on in the last 24 hours of D1. I also feel the basis of her kirsche vote is weak because she doesn't take into account the fact that kirsche's playstyle is(no offence) naturally provocative, so emphasizing on him daring people to react to his post is scummy imo. And as I said earlier, saying BBM's reaction is town while kirsche's is not is like picking sides.

In case it wasn't obvious, the fact that I kept my vote on kirsche as opposed to switching it to someone else indicated that my lynch priority was him. Dunno about anyone else, but that seems like a pretty good indicator to me.

While kirsche's playstyle is more confrontational than a lot of people's, that doesn't change that fact that, in my mind at least, the way that kirsche went about trying to get people to respond to his and BBM's interactions was scummy. I've seen kirsche play and that didn't feel like a town play to me. BBM's way of doing it was better, if not great, but I was already scum reading kirsche because of the way he presented BBM's argument in a way that made BBM seem more scummy than BBM actually was being.

As for comparing my play here to ITTD, remember that I was ITP in that game, which isn't the same thing as my scum meta or my town meta. If you're going to try to use meta, use a game where I was actually scum, not just anti-town. You can't compare the two because play is completely different.

Right, besides that, Manix, your reaction to BBM's claim feels pretty off to me. Could you explain why you reacted so strongly to his post? I guess the reaction just feels stronger than the situation warrented? Even if the reaction test was dumb, it feels like you kinda freaked out at it (that wording's a bit stronger than what I'm intending, I just can't find the correct words for it right now, I'm a bit brain fried, sorry)

Elie: I don't think I've been hem/hawing on my kirsche read. I've been pretty solid on it and I have commented on some other stuff, I've just been busy.

Speaking of which, I'm at work for at least another 4 hours, after which I'll actually try to get a legit post with rereads and more developed reads, but until then I'll just be occasionally popping in to comment on the last page or so.

[Grace]

when someone i'm scumreading does something that makes it look like trying to noneffort, i'm going to call that shit out scorri

[scorri]

... Fair enough Manix. Hadn't thought about it like that, that's a valid thing

[Grace]

okay so. plan is to sleep for 2 hours or something now. may end up longer if i can't keep myself awake after that.

probably going to end up requiring a nap later on as well

this may impact my brainpower. it may not though.

[Refa]

i'm time delayed vig

i basically get to send a nuke at someone and then they die in 48 hours, and nothing can stop it

i've just gone and sent it darros's way

you are allowed to claim this, right?

so there's no way for you to stop it at all before the 48 hours are up, huh.

also why nuke darros before he can respond to the cases on him? do you just not think he'll get on soon enough or are you that sure that he's scum.

[Mitsuki]

This is my first time losing a post and I never thought it'd be so awful.

Manix's vig makes me think there's no harmful 3rd this game. There's still a harmless 3rd though.

##Unvote

Marth's replies to me make me unsure of my read, it doesn't seem like something scum would reply. I want to take some time to reconsider my read (which wasn't that strong anyways).

##Vote: Kirsche

I know I was townreading him but I reconsidered. I don't think the stuff I brought up to read him is actual townie stuff, but more like stuff Kirsche would do because of being Kirsche. It wasn't indicative of alignment.

Kirsche implied several times that he was holding off stuff to coment, which is not the stuff he's voting Darros on because that's a sheep (Darros was null to him here and then he sheeped the emerging cases on him here). He's never comented on anything nor given reads based on those thoughts he wasn't saying.

This makes me think that he actually never had those thoughts on the first place and just said he had to seem more active and contibuting than he was.

He hasn't given any original scumreads himself and has just sheeped other people on FFM and Darros. He's also asked a lot of questions that he hasn't followed up on, and those haven't lead to any reads. The only contribution to the game he's done is the BBM townread, which is not much considering that he's posted a fair amount of times.

Someone mentioned that Kirsche asked others to give thoughts on people while not giving those himself, I'm also sheeping that.

I think Elie is town. I haven't checked his posts much but his motivation on scumreading me seems genuine, as well as his tone.

Replies on next post (or maybe not if I'm too lazy). But since Elie is back, please reply to the question I asked at the bottom of this post.

[Darros]

I'm fucking tired andI'm not making a huge content post because of that. Sorry I haven't been as into this game as other ones.

First of all, ;/ @Manix for vigging me when I'm not even online. Also jesus christ threadspam.

@BBM/Kirsche. When I said I had no reads that was from skimming. After actually reading those two in ISO form, aka not reading the thread but looking at their posts and solo interactions, I was able to actually come up with something.

Don't like how Darros pushed Poly early on and then ditched that case entirely for FFM. I feel like he wouldn't have dropped it so easily as town, just seems a bit too reactionary to people telling him the case is bad.

Except Poly went to the void, I'm still wary of Poly, except he disappeared. Besides that lynch was going nowhere, why would I stay on a lynch that's clearly not going to happen when there are other targets that consolidation could actually happen on? *eyes emoji*

Mit seems to be doing a lot of setupspec, which is very bizarre.. It doesn't read well to me.

I'm still scumreading kirsche. Today his posts are still off. He's mostly talking about Manix/BBM interactions then he just sheeps me... That plus D1 just makes me think he's scummy.
##Vote: kirsche

Also I'm not seeing how Manix and BBM have similar roles wtf is that

[Refa]

You're going to be blown up and that's all you have to say?

Also I'm not seeing how Manix and BBM have similar roles wtf is that

BBM hasn't roleclaimed to my knowledge.