Are 4 Fire Emblem characters in SSB4 too much?

[Freohr Datia]

Hmm I think rehab's post right above you does a good job of addressing what you are wondering about =o

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Heck no. Fire Emblem is full of great candidates, it could have even more!

[Sasori]

Fire Emblem is a pretty long running series so I don't think its odd for them to have 4 characters. Other series might need a newcommer more like Metroid or Donkey Kong, but thats more because those franchises are a little underrepresented at the moment.

Also I barely see Lucina as a newcomer anyway. She's just a glorified costume change with a few different attributes as far as I know. It probably wasn't that much work and I highly doubt her inclusion means someone's exclusion.

[Shin]

It's only irritating that the series was never heard or distributed before SSBM's release. Why it got so popular now...lol nobody knows.

Maybe it's because it actually appeared in the west. Series tend to sell better when they're not Japan exclusive. I'm not terribly fussed with the number of characters, although it did come as a slight surprise.

[intergalacticoh]

On the miiverse site Sakurai said something about Lucina being an alt costume for Marth, but since she had slightly different attributes they gave her a spot on the selection screen to differentiate her. Kind of weird, but I guess that explains why she didn't have the Newcomer banner on the official smash site.

I always thought there were only gonna be 3 tops, and I knew Chrom wasn't gonna be it, so I figured it would be Lucina or a magic user. Since Lucina is in kind of a weird situation I guess it's kind of like Fire Emblem has 3 & 1/2 reps.

Also pacman is third party (Namco), not Nintendo, so they only gave him 1 rep. Same with Sonic and Mega Man.

Edited July 18, 2014 by intergalacticoh

[bookofholsety]

on one hand, in and of itself? hardly! there's no better news than fire emblem reaching character rep levels matched/surpassed only by mario, zelda and pokémon, after all these years languishing in obscurity

on the other hand, the fact that 50% of them are from fe13 leaves a lot to be desired. one fe13 rep is great! two, though? that's more than a little bit bloated considering a huge chunk of the series is still sitting there with no representation

oh well i'll live

[OrangeCrush980]

Rehab posted...

Chrom didn't quite pass the same test Lucina did, and this is crucial, to the guys making the game, who are in the end just dudes with their own opinions who happen to have the last say on making the game, no more (as in, what "objectively deserves to get in") or less (as in, "they're wrong for including ___").

The thing is that Smash Bros is highly influential, especially for smaller franchises like Fire Emblem, so Sakurai should take a little more responsibility. Sakurai's choices regarding Fire Emblem reps have already lead to or at least influenced:

- Fire Emblem being released in the West at all, and everything that resulted from that

- FE6 being the best-selling GBA FE in Japan (due to Roy)

- Ike being as popular as he is, and pretty much being the secondary mascot of the entire series (Marth being the primary)

Sakurai's new choices may lead to:

- A stronger mentality among fans and IS developers that Awakening is the only Fire Emblem that matters, and that IS should make more games like it.

- Lucina becoming one of the most iconic characters in the series when she was only the third most important character in her own game.

[Magical Glace]

The thing is that Smash Bros is highly influential, especially for smaller franchises like Fire Emblem, so Sakurai should take a little more responsibility. Sakurai's choices regarding Fire Emblem reps have already lead to or at least influenced:

- Fire Emblem being released in the West at all, and everything that resulted from that

- FE6 being the best-selling GBA FE in Japan (due to Roy)

- Ike being as popular as he is, and pretty much being the secondary mascot of the entire series (Marth being the primary)

Sakurai's new choices may lead to:

- A stronger mentality among fans and IS developers that Awakening is the only Fire Emblem that matters, and that IS should make more games like it.

- Lucina becoming one of the most iconic characters in the series when she was only the third most important character in her own game.

I could have sworn that was FE3.

It is, according to Famitsu sales-tracking records, the highest-selling Fire Emblem title in history, having sold well in excess of 750,000 copies during its print run (though at certain times, Nintendo itself has claimed Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War is the "most successful" title).

And the Wiki agrees

[Anacybele]

FE3 was never GBA. He said the best-selling GBA Fire Emblem. :P

And I hope that Smash 4 doesn't make people think that Awakening is the only FE game that matters. You can't just erase the other 24 years FE has existed. Hell, it wouldn't even make one bit of sense because if Awakening is the only game that matters, why would Marth be the mascot of the series? Awakening isn't one of his games.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Anacybele

[Magical Glace]

FE3 was never GBA. He said the best-selling GBA Fire Emblem. :P

Oh, whoops, missed that part. I thought he meant overall.

[PKL]

Understand this, people: Lucina did not take anyone else's slot, her inclusion doesn't mean someone else can't get in, having her in does not make the game suck, her being a clone doesn't mean the game will suck. She was originally going to be a Marth alt, so she was in the game anyway, but Sakurai decided to give her a slot because she lacks the tipper and that's a very veeeery significant gameplay change already.

EDIT: Clones exist since Street fighter. Ryu ken yo.

Edited July 18, 2014 by PKL

[BANRYU]

It's not just a matter of 'is it a big enough franchise to deserve it'. Fire Emblem may not be as big a series as even Nintendo's secondarily popular big IPs (IE Kirby, Metroid, Star Fox; though IMO I think Awakening kind of elevated it to their level), but it has an insanely high volume of significant characters to it that not even franchises like Zelda or Mario can match; Pokemon is the only one particularly comparable, and as Brawl shows, it DOES get a lot of characters relative to other franchises to represent the huge number of characters. Even if we're only counting Lords and other main characters, Fire Emblem has more than double the number of 'important' characters that most other franchises have.

So no, I don't really think it's unfitting. Maybe them both being from Awakening was a bit much, but we've already discussed in the main SSB4 thread how Lucina was a cheap and efficient way of adding a character that lots of people actually like; saying they should have replaced her with an FE rep from some other game like Ephraim or Micaiah discredits all the extra work the devs would have to do, because new characters take a shitton more work to make possible than a fanservicey little clone does. And as long as it makes SOME people happy, why is that a problem?

EDIT:

Sakurai's new choices may lead to:

- A stronger mentality among fans and IS developers that Awakening is the only Fire Emblem that matters, and that IS should make more games like it.

- Lucina becoming one of the most iconic characters in the series when she was only the third most important character in her own game.

I'll admit I can't help but share the first concern (at least in terms of gameplay; but hopefully 'Intelligent' Systems will be true enough to their namesake to just take the themes and ideas from Awakening, rather than the aspects of gameplay that were mediocre. We know they're more than capable of making better games than that), however, the second one confuses me. Is she not already pretty iconic for her own game? Doesn't her status as an icon in Awakening-- one of the most popular and commercially successful FEs-- kind of make her iconic for the FE series by extension? I don't understand the complaint, and I don't understand why, even if that was true, it would be a problem.

Edited July 18, 2014 by BANRYU

[NeonZ]

- A stronger mentality among fans and IS developers that Awakening is the only Fire Emblem that matters, and that IS should make more games like it.

Marth and Ike still are in the game and both have gotten updated designs based on their last non-Awakening appearances. I don't see how that'd make people disregard the earlier titles.

- Lucina becoming one of the most iconic characters in the series when she was only the third most important character in her own game.

If any character is getting extra recognition as an icon, it's Robin. Most people seemed to just disregard the default designs and name of the avatar before Smash's decision to add him.

I guess next FE game we might go back to a FE12-style promotion where there are two default avatar designs promoted by IS, rather than mostly attempting to remain neutral like they did in most of the Awakening related material.

Edited July 18, 2014 by NeonZ

[Alertcircuit]

Marth and Ike still are in the game and both have gotten updated designs based on their last non-Awakening appearances. I don't see how that'd make people disregard the earlier titles.

Because in a series with 20 years worth of material, half of the reps are from just one game. And Smash is a magnifier for popularity.

[Dandragon]

I think we should all just be happy we even got four characters. Tiki is already confirmed as a trophy so lets just hope that we get more representation through trophies and leave it at that. Okay?

[Florete]

I don't think FE "needs" 4 characters. I will, however, fuckin take it

All that needs to be said.

And I bet if Lucina were Roy, no one would be complaining about the amount of reps FE has.

[Ercdouken]

I don't think the number of characters from a franchise getting in even matters, regardless of how big it is. This is Nintendo's game, and they can do whatever they want with it.

Also, complaining about clone characters are for the weak!

[NinjaMonkey]

And I bet if Lucina were Roy, no one would be complaining about the amount of reps FE has.

I would be, actually.

[Anacybele]

I wouldn't be complaining about there being four reps, I would be complaining that Roy was brought back when someone more unique like Ephraim wasn't added instead. xP

[BANRYU]

I think what we're learning from this is that you can't every make everyone happy. Some people just need to shut up and

Nah but in all seriousness, it's fine to discuss topics like that and think about what kind of impact they can have on the series, but a lot of people are making really petty or minor complaints about this decision. Seriously.

[NeonZ]

Because in a series with 20 years worth of material, half of the reps are from just one game. And Smash is a magnifier for popularity.

We're still talking about just two characters though, with two for the previous games. I could see that situation happening if we only had Awakening representatives, but not as things stand. Most other series get one game favored about others. Look at Metroid. Both Samus and Zero Suit Samus were based on Metroid Zero Mission in Brawl, and now both are from Other M. I don't think the balance between games needs to be exactly equal like you imply.

Edited July 18, 2014 by NeonZ

[Knife]

The Mega franchises (Mario, Zelda,and Pokemon) are probably going to end up with a minimum of 5 reps (Mario is already confirmed and Zelda just needs Ganondorf to come back). Fire emblem is probably the next most relevant franchise after those three, although being bigger than Kirby is arguable.

[BANRYU]

The way I see it, Nintendo has its primary, secondary, and lesser tertiary IPs, sorted in terms of popularity, success, and relevance: Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda are the Big 3 for primary, agreed. Secondary ones would be the other franchises from SSB64, like Metroid, DKC, Kirby, and Star Fox. Even lesser than that would be the really obscure ones with small but devoted fanbases like Mother, F-Zero, the retro games, and until recently Fire Emblem. I think it's safe to say that Fire Emblem has graduated to more of a secondary IP for Nintendo, but it's hardly higher priority than the other more longstanding secondary series like Kirby and DKC.

Like I said earlier, the number of chars FE gets is proportional to the number of significant characters that the series has. Almost every other series besides Pokemon has significant-cast-counts that pale in comparison.

I know that two from Awakening could be seen as a bit much, but one is a clone, and canonically, Lucina is probably the best candidate to BE a clone of Marth out of everyone in the series-- even if Roy was added back in, he'd be more liable (and deserving, IMO) to have his OWN moveset, and it's clear that Lucina is the more efficient option who doubly serves to please her fans, of which there are quite a lot. (Yes, Roy has a lot of fans too, but RFoF has done a good job explaining why they-- ultimately-- don't have as much impact.) It seems odd, but it definitely makes sense.

Edited July 19, 2014 by BANRYU

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I have noticed too late that I forgot to edit the poll question. This question "if FE does deserve 4 characters?" was worded way too harsh. I have read the criticism in some of your replies. I corrected the topic immediately, but forget to correct the poll question. It's edited, although I know it's too late.

I apologize to all people for this mistake.

My intention was to say that all franchises should be represented equally and no (semi-)clones should be added just to raise the number of characters. One character (Robin) would be enough to represent the latest Fire Emblem game.

The way I see it, Nintendo has its primary, secondary, and lesser tertiary IPs, sorted in terms of popularity, success, and relevance: Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda are the Big 3 for primary, agreed. Secondary ones would be the other franchises from SSB64, like Metroid, DKC, Kirby, and Star Fox. Even lesser than that would be the really obscure ones with small but devoted fanbases like Mother, F-Zero, the retro games, and until recently Fire Emblem. I think it's safe to say that Fire Emblem has graduated to more of a secondary IP for Nintendo, but it's hardly higher priority than the other more longstanding secondary series like Kirby and DKC.

Like I said earlier, the number of chars FE gets is proportional to the number of significant characters that the series has. Almost every other series besides Pokemon has significant-cast-counts that pale in comparison.

SSB4 has twice as much FE characters than in SSBB. I don't expect there will be more than 40 characters in total in SSB4.

The franchises should be represented equally. To my mind Fire Emblem is equal to series like "Kirby" or "Starfox". I think 3 characters would be fair and enough.

Edited July 19, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Florete]

SSB4 has twice as much FE characters than in SSBB. I don't expect there will be more than 40 characters in total in SSB4.

Uh, 36 characters are confirmed (treating Miis as one), there are 12 unconfirmed Brawl veterans, some of whom are more-or-less guaranteed to return, and there's still at least one (but likely more) newcomer left.

I'm pretty damn certain there will be more than 40.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire