Guitar Mafia - Game Over

[#HBC dewound]

Rapier, I'm gonna be honest with you. I got in over my head about you about your play and admitted that I was at fault and am willing to let bygones be bygones. I really didn't want to play this game where I had to constantly explain myself, and it's alarming to me that what I feel, from my perspective, I have been given all I could possibly. It's a moot point though and Larsa/Omega would tell me that I'm being emotional again, when really emotions play in part of my actions and why I do things. It's a facet of my playstyle that doesn't really go away. I'm not asking for pity, I just want people to understand where I'm coming from when I inevitably flip town.

[Prims]

I have strong role-related reason to believe dewound is lying about his claim.

[Prims]

If you didn't know what an aspect of your role did, why didn't you ask about it?

Need clarification on the enabler for various reasons.

[Refa]

Warning: Lots of gut reads and scum vibes to follow. Fun fact, I actually typed out this warning before I made the post, but I thought about the game while I was gone (what a nerd) and that's the kind of thing that popped into my head...so yeah. Hopefully I didn't lie about the nature of this post!

Reading back, most of #HBC's content seems to be focused on defending himself from my post but he doesn't actually put any effort into catching scum (I'm not expecting cases or detailed reads that early on, but there's like not even a gut read or a bad vibe or ANYTHING). Prims called out Mancer for not scumhunting around this time, but #HBC is way worse in this regard because he had more content by this time and spent a majority of it defending himself. Also his Mancer vote was so bad. Still feel good about my vote here.

Sigh. What do you want to know? Poly vote was obviously not serious. I answered you in a serious manner because of the question you asked, which was why I chose him. There was a legit answer to that, but fact remains it was a joke vote.

I said it was damning in the way he did it, and presented it could be a scum gambit. Nothing he's done is inherently scummy though. I've said that, and reiterated it.

1) You answering Prims seriously implies that it was not a joke vote. Otherwise why would you have a serious response?

2) Saying it could be a scum gambit is (excuse the buzzword) obvious fearmongering. Like anything could be a scum gambit, why do you need to say that?

3) If what he did was damning (implying that he's scummy), then he has done something inherently scummy (and self voting is in most cases, inherently scummy so you're right in that regard)...yet later on, you contradict yourself. Why?

@Prims: Word. It seems most attack on me is due to misinterpretation. Could be wrong, Refa seems pretty hellbent, albeit with little to no ground.

Refa, why jump to the defense of Poly? What was so telling that you had to attack me over it? Why not Prims who agreed with me? Moreover, why didn't you account the possibility of it being a joke vote? Given the context and wording with my vote.

No, most of the attack is because you're scum. :> Seriously though, I'm calling bullshit on your next sentence. I specifically said I couldn't care less if you made a vote on Poly, but your justification of it was horrible. I also mentioned why I was OK with Prims' vote in the same post...While your initial vote on Poly looked like a joke vote (and thus did not bother me), your explanation did not (because who explains joke votes answer: nooone).

I don't like Mancer's vote on Randa. Like yeah, Randa was being deliberately unhelpful but why would he be doing that as scum? Actually this whole post gives me bad vibes since he just seems to be going for easy targets (Randa being deliberately unhelpful, Poly not voting someone else) which isn't something I'd expect Town!Mancer to do. Still wouldn't vote Mancer despite scumreading him because I don't like any of the votes on him besides Rapier's.

Town Miller to cop shows up as guilty? Gambit would be claim miller D1 as you're supposed to with a Miller role, while actually being scum, so any cop brought attention would be WIFOM or disregarded due to the miller claim. That's why it's a possibility of a gambit. Anyways, like I said, unless you all use a different type of miller... which idk!

Because if there isn't a cop, Poly would end up looking really bad lol.

How can someone be a white knight and at the same time sound unconfident about their actions? If anything, both terms are conflicting by themselves.

Will Mancer reply to Prims' points regarding his actions? I've yet to see a rebuttal.

Actually a legit point that I missed.

Refa's instant read on Prims bothers me in the sense that even if it comes from meta, it feels too soon. I don't think he'll hold to that same opinion throughout the whole phase, but I scratch my head wondering why Psych was the one getting heat while everyone just blindly accepted Refa's left-field read.

I don't see the correlation between me or Psych (hint- only one of us self voted), and Psych wasn't under any pressure so I'm just kind of confused by your stance here.

Psych disappearing annoys me. I'm aware people will be like "wow Refa way to waste space on an inactive slot" but there's just something about him self voting and disappearing that's off to me. His initial "content" post is pretty bad too, with him OMGUSing Randa for an RVS post.

I'm on Page 7 right now. I just...I can't, I can't keep up. Please slow down.

[#HBC Larsa]

You're implying that there is no reason behind who you choose to vote in RVS? Okay. I'm ignoring you from this point on, get out of the tunnel.

@Prims: You have role related reason to believe against him? I slightly do, but I wasn't gonna say anything due to it still being a possibility. Interesting. He can still die then, imo.

[Refa]

You're implying that there is no reason behind who you choose to vote in RVS? Okay. I'm ignoring you from this point on, get out of the tunnel.

1) That's a dumb reason to dismiss my content and 2) Yes, I'm tunneling you. You're still ignoring the fact that I have VALID POINTS that you are not arguing against to any acceptable capacity.

[Donald Trump]

refa can you please stop congesting the thread by talking about larsa's early play? seriously everything youve been saying about his rvs vote (which is a shit load -.-) has been awful, and im only addressing you like this cuz i actually kinda dig the non larsa related part of your catch up post. so please, i think itd benefit everybody if you pretend larsa's rvs actions dont exist for a while.

[MancerNecro]

Why would dewound claim right then and there? Sure, he was under fire but I think he could have done more to scum hunt (and direct town to voting someone else other than himself) instead of claiming right away. That claim doesn't sound right to me.

@Players comparing my playstyle in this game to my normal playstyle: I'm trying out a non-spammy way of playing in this game since people are apparently irritated when I spam a mafia game up.

@Rapier: But even in your most recent post, you only talked about and compared Randa and I, showing that the main focus of most of your discussion is on Randa and I and you even waffled slightly on your reads on the both of us.

dewound is reminding me of Bluedoom in Qprogue in the way he plays so I'm inclined to think he could be scum attempting the same thing that Bluedoom did in Qprogue. Would be okay with voting him but I want votals so we don't accidentally turbo lynch him.

I feel like Prims is town from the general tone of his posts. Refa is probably town too at this point despite the overreaction to Larsa's Poly vote earlier on.

Nothing much else to say in this post and I'm pretty irritated at having to type this twice, too...

[BBM]

sorry guys I don't have time to make a comprehensive atm because I have to go to a driving lesson

basically skimmed the thread; Larsa completely misses the point of everything. You don't need to be voting someone to have content, you just need to actually TALK ABOUT WHO YOU THINK IS SCUMMY. Larsa has not said anything about who he thinks is scummy. This is actually worse than Dewound, who at least had suspicions but didn't want to vote. I also don't know why he got so mad about having to respond to me again and again because he literally only responded to me like once? Not counting the RVS stuff since that was a totally unrelated topic. Also it feels weird to me that he was relatively calm when responding to everyone else multiple times and suddenly just blew up at me and started yelling about not wanting to respond to my same points over and over again when he had never done so even once. Dunno maybe he got me mixed up with someone else?

might switch to Larsa over Dewound but I'll need to think about it once I come back

Rapier if you didn't read SMT and didn't know that I was Deathbound and not Refa, how are you getting Deathbound feels from anybody...?

[Vhaltz]

Votals

dewound (5): Gorf, BBM, Omega, Prims, HBC Larsa (L-2)
MancerNecro (2): Rapier, Polydeuces

Rapier (2): Mancer, dewound

Randa (2): Psych
HBC Larsa (1): Refa
Psych (1): Randa

Not voting (1): EvilG

With 13 alive it takes 7 to hammer. Phase ends in 32~ hours. (Countdown.)

EvilG has been prodded.

[EvilG]

#hammer dewound. (this is how I vote right)

Sorry if this is a bad vote but I've been behind the topic thanks to a rather busy weekend.

[Vhaltz]

Votals

dewound (6): Gorf, BBM, Omega, Prims, HBC Larsa, EvilG (L-1)
MancerNecro (2): Rapier, Polydeuces

Rapier (2): Mancer, dewound

Randa (2): Psych
HBC Larsa (1): Refa
Psych (1): Randa

With 13 alive it takes 7 to hammer. Phase ends in 30~ hours. (Countdown.)

[Randa]

Okay. Sorry I wasn't on at all in like the last 36 hours. I had to leave at 8:00 am and didn't get back till 10:00pm. I was not following the game at that point, but I should be able to actually contribute now. After breakfast though.

[Randa]

Also somebody Unvote. No way in hell are hammering right now.

[Donald Trump]

@locals is evilg characteristically a nonexistent detriment to the thread? cuz every fiber of my being is tellin me policy lynch em.

[Randa]

@locals is evilg characteristically a nonexistent detriment to the thread? cuz every fiber of my being is tellin me policy lynch em.

i dont think hes played here before. either that or my memory is horrible. also finally got all my quotes so giant quote strip post incoming.

[Refa]

Come at me bro.

[#HBC Larsa]

sorry guys I don't have time to make a comprehensive atm because I have to go to a driving lesson

basically skimmed the thread; Larsa completely misses the point of everything. You don't need to be voting someone to have content, you just need to actually TALK ABOUT WHO YOU THINK IS SCUMMY. Larsa has not said anything about who he thinks is scummy. This is actually worse than Dewound, who at least had suspicions but didn't want to vote. I also don't know why he got so mad about having to respond to me again and again because he literally only responded to me like once? Not counting the RVS stuff since that was a totally unrelated topic. Also it feels weird to me that he was relatively calm when responding to everyone else multiple times and suddenly just blew up at me and started yelling about not wanting to respond to my same points over and over again when he had never done so even once. Dunno maybe he got me mixed up with someone else?

might switch to Larsa over Dewound but I'll need to think about it once I come back

Rapier if you didn't read SMT and didn't know that I was Deathbound and not Refa, how are you getting Deathbound feels from anybody...?

BBM, I think you're missing the point to be fair. Just because I don't broadcast my scum list, and narrate each and everything, does not mean that I'm not forming my own opinions, and will drop them soon enough. Are you familiar with the term "feigning activity"? That's what happens when you basically reiterate points that are already made by someone else. I had my own suspicions and pushes on Mancer and Dewound. If you don't see that, well then, i'm sorry. But I can't just switch up my play style to accommodate you to be able to read me.

If you'd give me something worth responding to, I'd do it. But fact is, and remains, you and Refa both have absolutely nothing. You're both tunneling me based on my early play, and BBM, now, it seems you're trying to throw baseline accusations with no substantiation. Because I can easily go back and quote things.

You wonder why I talk about myself a bunch? I get the same things to respond to over and over, yet you can't figure out why? Maybe, if you'd let the thread progress, instead of clogging up the game with the same non-existing arguments over and over it'd do some good. Because I personally get told to stop swatting the useless flies by someone who knows how I play, and yet it keeps coming. If you have a problem with me in later days, and want to lynch me for the hell of it, and we're actually ahead, then I'm cool with wasting a day to appease your suspicions of me that hold no merit. But at this point in time, cut it out. Unless you have a case that can actually be built, or have ANY substantiation outside of what you claim to be transparent, then by all means present it, and sway people to believe you.

What you're actually doing, is uselessly tunneling someone who is town, and has to clog up the thread with the same augmented defense over and over, because you can't stop tunneling to actually hunt scum. Nearly ALL over your posts have been about me, all with the same feigned content. They hardly differentiate, Refa is the same way. So, I'll put it quite simply, I'm not responding to them anymore toDay. This is the last time I will say this.

Better yet, let me ask you some questions. to just, y'know help you out of the tunnel here: If you want me to push forward and form my reads, or get them from me; Why not ask? Instead of assuming, mind you. If you were to ISO me, you'd see the same augmented defense over your merit-less accusations. What about that is indicative to a town or scum play style? Explain. Do you perhaps think that both you and Refa are tunneling me due to me having a different play style that you're not adjusted too? Because what you are nitpicking is all semantics of how you play, and in my case shows no malevolent intent at all. If you can point out any negative connotation or malevolent intent in my play, please do so at this time.

More to game on the rest of the game outside the tunnel that Refa and BBM are trying to bomb on me.

[Randa]

[spoiler=because god this post was long]

I justified the avenues they were attacking because it could be. I could explain why I chose Poly over Psych. I could also explain that after Refa's jump to conclusions that their could've been alternative intent behind it. Therefore I elaborated more on the possibilities. I never really justified it, I was just claiming the possibility there. Do you not see that it could be a gambit? Am I wrong to assume it could be one?

@Prims: Word. It seems most attack on me is due to misinterpretation. Could be wrong, Refa seems pretty hellbent, albeit with little to no ground.

Refa, why jump to the defense of Poly? What was so telling that you had to attack me over it? Why not Prims who agreed with me? Moreover, why didn't you account the possibility of it being a joke vote? Given the context and wording with my vote.

i feel like your posts made more sense when i was drunk. anyways this reads like me in reclass wrt the sb thing. you make it so you have at least some grounds for a later lynch on the slot, without actually showing any conviction to the lynch. (that still doesnt sound right but i spent a solid ten minutes trying to figure out the wording.)

@Rapier: First you say that I am doing the same thing as Randa then you acknowledge that I did something that Randa didn't do. Feels like waffling here to me where Rapier places himself in a position where he can easily decide whether to vote or not to vote me later on in the day.

There isn't much to say about the Larsa case right when I made my post earlier on. I just thought that Larsa's vote seemed like a joke vote and I thought that there was too much attention given to it. I didn't see Larsa's justifications for his vote at that point (cause derp).

@Refa: There isn't anything concrete to be garnered from any of the discussion we've had yet hence why I might seem to not be confident. I hate RVS terribly...

What Prims said (about Randa).

@Larsa: I don't see how it could be a gambit...

this seems to be trying to excuse a lack of posting thoughts on rvs, when we were already out of rvs. that seems logically flawed.

A Miller should claim right off the bat so that the cop knows not to scan them and waste one night of his scan action. The claim in itself does not prove that the player is town since the player could be scum fake claiming Miller. That is why we scum hunt through interactions and not through claims (duuh).

@Rapier: I did address the points Prims raised about me in my responses to other players though I admit I should have responded directly to Prims himself.

one this was unnecessarily snarky imo. two you answered your question. this means the question you asked was an attempt to feign content. which is scummy.

Your content is just as subpar as his. The only difference is that you questioned other people about their vote on Larsa, which is slightly better. This doesn't mean your content is good, nor do I buy your initial refusal to pay attention to Larsa's case until pressed by BBM to do so.

@Randa

If you have any questions about my reads so far, you should ask me. In case I am being too confusing with all my posts, I can sum them up: I'm finding Prims and Refa town because the former's points about Mancer are solid and the latter's scumhunting helped us develop a discussion which is bringing us out of RVS. Larsa doesn't seem bad, he managed to justify himself well and if anything my pressure on him was to develop reads, I didn't find him a strong scum read. Leaning my reads on you and Mancer slightly toward my scum meter because both your contents are lacking, and Mancer only bothered to do something after being pressed by BBM to comment on Larsa's case, which he first handwaved. The rest is neutral.

That said:

Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

I'm comfortable with this until he shows more content.

sorry, in rereading your opinions are more clear and i just wasn't reading very well. also i surprisingly agree with this post.

wow are we

are we really starting wagons and diving into people based off a self vote

##vote randa for diving into a shallow pool head first

i don't really like #HBC Larsa either

dewound is cool

who the hell are all you people where's eclipse where is shin where is sb

#HBC Larsa more like #HBIC

okay that joke was literally all i had to say here's a post too

psych actually posting in a game. nope ruined my hopes. also since you are mayor you must clearly be an sk.

I have read Psych correctly in all of one game and would rather let other people interact with him before making judgments tbh.

This is game theory and not meta. My vote on Mancer is because of his actions. Mancer hasn't rolled scum in ages since last game was his first game here in a year but I don't recall his playstyle being inherently different from his town playstyle. Too early to make a snap meta judgment on him.

wait there are people who can read psych correctly. all i remember is turbo'ing him in ittd and he flipped doc.

outside of this interaction i wasn't really diggin dewound cuz his mancer read is wack beyond belief. i skimmed this interaction the first time through but looking back i dont really understand their interaction. it LOOKS like it's supposed to go somewhere on dewound's end but like... it doesn't. i think prims' development is cool though. his 99 especially is legit. makes me kinda wanna body dewound but i wanna hear watchu think of mancer.

where did i put that whiskey.

I don't like seeing the people who I town-read get wagoned, and I will gladly defend them. I don't why the possibility of scummates bussing matters to me right now fmpov.

I will literally break out a couple of paragraphs of why this wagon blows chunks if I need to, but the reason i asked you about Rapier is because he is one of the people who I think is scum right now if you want me to be blunt, which I've sort of highlighted in #116.

i had something to say about this post. now i forgot. uhh itll come back to me.

orange haired anime slapfights itt

I couldn't tell dewound was scumreading Rapier until he outright stated it which makes me wonder why he prioritizes "X is ok" lists over pushing people who are mafia. ED1 isn't really the time to keep your cards close to your chest, why is Rapier scummy?

I'm down with both a Mancer wagon and dewound wagon. Agree dewound is hipstering the fuck out for no reason. Also increasingly suspicious of Refa. There are lots of quote responses but most of it is questions and imo that's what his case on Larsa amounts to - vaguely odd things Larsa did he can continuously harp on, but not scummy things. Was also surprised he thought he found a contradiction in my post but didn't really look into it. feels like scum!eclipse is ghostwriting his posts

On a side note, I'm curious how Randa didn't draw conclusions from Rapier's posts when Rapier was p. clearly scumreading Larsa at the time.

idk. like it was pretty obvious in retrospect.

I feel it's one thing to say 'yeah this is scummy and I'm going to vote you for it' and another to say 'yeah, this is scummy, but I know it's pretty weak regardless. I'm gonna vote you, but I wanna make it clear that I'm waiting for you to produce more content until I fully decide whether it is completely scummy or not.' It might be an environment clash thing but I don't see the point of the vote there when you haven't made up your mind or feel you can get something out of it, as I've usually taken votes like this.

environmental clash probably. using votes to get answers is very common on sf.

I don't really like Rapier and Gorf and I will explain why.

I don't like how Rapier approaches the wagon on me: He leaves himself in a position where he can easily decide to move his vote away (because his case on me is apparently so weak) or keep it on me if the collective town decides to lynch me later on (because having your vote on a weak case is better than doing nothing at all). He's done nothing more than explain his position WRT voting me and simultaneously attacking and defending Randa. All these pings Rapier as scum.

##Unvote: Randa, ##Vote: Rapier

Regarding Gorf, I don't like his initial vote on me because he doesn't exactly say what he finds me scummy for in that post (not clearly to me at least) and then he switches his vote over to dewound when dewound questioned his case on me. 3 pages isn't really that much content as far as SF (and I) is concerned. Look at how fast day 1 in the recent game Qprogue was.

@Poly: I am always all over the place in my thoughts, even as town. How does my being all over the place in this game now make me seem even scummier to you than normal? Look at Qprogue, for an example of me being all over the place with my thoughts.

I can agree with Prims's case on me for not being as aggressive in attacking players in this game but that's because I'm trying not to spam the thread too much like I usually do, which annoys some players, apparently.

@Larsa: My post talking about the miller claim is to tell you why town miller would just claim off the start. I did not say that there's a possibility of a gambit because when lynching players, town would ignore the miller claim and scum hunt as per normal. Scum doesn't really benefit much from such a gambit since it doesn't really clear them as town.

dewound needs to vote someone and actually start scum hunting instead of defending me. I can defend myself if I feel that I need to. Instead of defending me, you should be attacking the players whose cases (on me) you think are scummy. You make me think of Bluedoom in Qprogue, when he claimed how obviously town I was and tried to ride and coast along his read on me.

i dont remember rapier ever defending me though. also yes i get the same vibes from dewound as i did marth in qprouge, lo and behold i was correct then. but im not getting the same town vibes from you.

sorry guys was having internet issues last night and then my head was hurting so I decided to just sleep early

##Unvote, ##Vote: Dewound

It's possible this is just playstyle differences but looking at dewound posting about Rapier, the more and more he explains his read there the more and more I don't get why he isn't voting there. I mean, I don't agree with his Rapier read necessarily, but he keeps saying that he doesn't feel that this is how a townie would act, and if that's the case why isn't his vote there?

Then in #121 he talks about how he will gladly defend people he thinks are town and spend paragraphs doing so, but in #123 he just says he's not scumreading Mancer. ~Semantics but not scumreading != townreading and other than just go "man this Mancer wagon sucks" and "hey Mancer made some good points" there isn't an actual reason given for why Mancer is town at any point. Reads like white-knighting to me.

When I was catching up I actually decided Randa was town at some point because I figured it'd be easier for him to bs some shit rather than draw attention through trolling, and then I realized he was just drunk (are you even legal, Randa?). q_q still inclined to say he's town because I feel like he just wouldn't post if he was drunk scum but eh kind of weak.

I see from the votals that Larsa is voting Mancer but I don't actually remember Larsa pushing Mancer at all. In fact all I remember is the Poly vote and then saying that it was a joke. Quick skim of the thread reveals to me that his Mancer vote actually just seems like a misunderstanding between him and Mancer about what the other was saying- and it's about Miller game theory regardless. Larsa actually has very little content despite posting a lot. Also I don't really like his comments about Refa. He's kind of just mudslinging and throwing around accusations about Refa tunneling on him with no ground and chainsaw defending Poly (without even saying that he thinks Poly is scum), but he isn't actually taking a stance on whether or not Refa is actually scum.

i am about as legal as i was 4 years ago. so not in the slightest hasnt stopped me before. and ftr i was drunk day 1 of smt as well and you were scum with me then so i can be drunk as either alignment. and it should not be a factor on my alignment,

aside from that though i agree with the rest of this post.

Alright, I'm a little out of my element here so bear with me as I adjust my bearings.

1.] First off, I find myself not liking the manner in which Poly claimed for the reasons Prims said; why waste Town's time by playing off your role like that? More on this later, because I see there was discission about it, but I'm logging my initial reaction.

EDIT: OK, Poly moves back to null on subsequent explanations. I still want my following question answered.

->a.] Refa, what has you thinking that Poly would not fakeclaim such a role as scum?

2.] Larsa's insistence on responding to every single problem with him concerns me. Larsa, why are you so focused on defending yourself here as opposed to looking for scum? I am reading page 2 and see you swatting flies. You are all over the place with your explanation of Poly's claim bothering you as well, and it is rather gross that much of your focus happens to be on your first critic, Refa.

3.] Southern Comfort is more gross, however!

4.] Dewound's 87 catches my eye. Boy, there sure are a lot of townies in this game but I'm waiting for the scum. Calling BS on Refa's Prims read as "too soon"; his earlier pardon of Poly shows he's a meta-dependent player and this reads as forced. Prims' pointing out of Dewound's calling Mancer's and Larsa's play fine is gold. Dewoundscum likes to take advantage of various SvT and TvT arguments so he ends up in good standing with both sides. Not liking this.

5.] More dewound vs. Rapier. The former thinks the latter is scum. Please lay that out for me.

EDIT: I see where you are coming from now.

6.] I will have a vig list soon. Also, this game has me remembering how much my site loves making themselves look like scum.

##Vote: dewound

southern comfort is great though. it gets me drunk quicker than jak's or jameisons.

When I voted you, we were still on page 4, so it is to be expected that my case on you isn't stellar, just as Refa's case on Larsa isn't anymore since it served its purpose to generate content and leave RVS phase (and I'm starting to get Deathbound feels from Refa, aka when he was scum in Persona 4 Anonymafia and tunneled a townie until around page 5 based on RVS votes). Weak cases, however, are different from empty cases, and I have reasons to find your actions strange, if not scummy:

I don't like how you handwaved the case about Larsa until pressed to say something, to which you responded by telling us you "don't find it scummy but it is worthy of note". This is a vague statement which doesn't tell us anything about how you were reading the case. Feels like you only bothered to answer in order to not be picked on about it later, as you didn't contribute to the discussion at the time with this statement. Your posts regarding his case had very little content backing them.

Furthermore, for someone who's been posting quite oftenly, your content overall is scarce. You voted Randa for... having scarce content, which is almost the same as you, the only difference between you two is that you asked the voters on Larsa why they were finding him scum (and I don't remember you engaging their reads further than this point, so what was the point of your question?), while Randa used his whisky as an excuse to avoid the discussion (which is bad, and I don't recall ever defending Randa or letting him get off the hook, as most of my posts that addressed you also addressed him in the same manner). Then you switched to me because you find my case opportunistic, from what I managed to read. This is all the content coming from you, in a nutshell.

Is it scummy to pursue a weak read when you have nothing else, around page 4? I'd agree with you if we were near midD1 and I still clinged to weak reads. But we were in page 4, if anything, it was a good enough reason to vote you and hope to get more content to solidify my read on you. You were hasty to conclude that later on I'd just leave your case be: This is just speculation of your part; not a read, nor a point. It can happen, but since it hasn't why bother with it now? You can't blame me for something which I haven't done, this is bad logic.

Also, saying that my content is limited to you and Randa is a lie. Just scroll down the pages and find my posts, you will see I addressed Larsa and Poly as well, and when Randa stated that he's confused about my reads, I informed him of my townreads on Prims and Refa and my scumreads on both of you. This is what I managed to do in 4 hours of RVS & early D1 around page 4, which is more than you did until now, even if my reads are weak.

Your reasoning behind your vote on me is flawed and I read it as an overreaction to my vote. I'm perfectly fine with my vote.

--

I'd ask Refa about his reads, but it seems he is writing a post right now. I'd better wait before confronting him.

long ass wall post that for the most part i agree with. except go back and read smt.

im actually just a part of the international lynch mob and have a deep craving for putting a noose around whoever's throat is in reach.

@omega

oh shit @ #4, i didnt even realize he was a thing till your post n i saw that he was voting nobody. id be down to swing the vote to em if he doesnt get in thread n do stuff.

@ #5 atm bbm larsa and you strike me as town. prims n rapier nulltown.

seriously i might need to be drunk to understand some of these post.

After thinking more about it, I realize I exaggerated. However, insisting on the case against Larsa during RVS is a waste of time that could be spent scumhunting with basis more credible than a RVS joke vote. That's my point.

I'm impressed that you managed to sum my rebuttal against Mancer in one line. Makes it simpler, hehe. '^^

I thought your reluctancy to vote was based on clashing metas, but it seems it isn't. You are also intentionally being reluctant to townreading Mancer, your "perhaps" makes it explicit. If you are uncertain of your reasons why Mancer is town and admits they are mostly part of how you feel about him, how can you state that you believe he is townie or go as far as to defend him? Your post #194 tells us that you're not even sure of your case on me. I wonder, are you really scumhunting or deliberately pretending to scumhunt? Your lack of assertiveness on your reads is very odd.

Well who knows, maybe if I do too much I'll be trying too hard to be town also according to you?

less snark please.

Hi, I'm back (I actually didn't go out to eat dinner). If I don't make a fucking amazing post in a few hours, turbolynch me or something.

Warning: Lots of gut reads and scum vibes to follow. Fun fact, I actually typed out this warning before I made the post, but I thought about the game while I was gone (what a nerd) and that's the kind of thing that popped into my head...so yeah. Hopefully I didn't lie about the nature of this post!

Reading back, most of #HBC's content seems to be focused on defending himself from my post but he doesn't actually put any effort into catching scum (I'm not expecting cases or detailed reads that early on, but there's like not even a gut read or a bad vibe or ANYTHING). Prims called out Mancer for not scumhunting around this time, but #HBC is way worse in this regard because he had more content by this time and spent a majority of it defending himself. Also his Mancer vote was so bad. Still feel good about my vote here.

1) You answering Prims seriously implies that it was not a joke vote. Otherwise why would you have a serious response?

2) Saying it could be a scum gambit is (excuse the buzzword) obvious fearmongering. Like anything could be a scum gambit, why do you need to say that?

3) If what he did was damning (implying that he's scummy), then he has done something inherently scummy (and self voting is in most cases, inherently scummy so you're right in that regard)...yet later on, you contradict yourself. Why?

No, most of the attack is because you're scum. :> Seriously though, I'm calling bullshit on your next sentence. I specifically said I couldn't care less if you made a vote on Poly, but your justification of it was horrible. I also mentioned why I was OK with Prims' vote in the same post...While your initial vote on Poly looked like a joke vote (and thus did not bother me), your explanation did not (because who explains joke votes answer: nooone).

I don't like Mancer's vote on Randa. Like yeah, Randa was being deliberately unhelpful but why would he be doing that as scum? Actually this whole post gives me bad vibes since he just seems to be going for easy targets (Randa being deliberately unhelpful, Poly not voting someone else) which isn't something I'd expect Town!Mancer to do. Still wouldn't vote Mancer despite scumreading him because I don't like any of the votes on him besides Rapier's.

Because if there isn't a cop, Poly would end up looking really bad lol.

Actually a legit point that I missed.

I don't see the correlation between me or Psych (hint- only one of us self voted), and Psych wasn't under any pressure so I'm just kind of confused by your stance here.

Psych disappearing annoys me. I'm aware people will be like "wow Refa way to waste space on an inactive slot" but there's just something about him self voting and disappearing that's off to me. His initial "content" post is pretty bad too, with him OMGUSing Randa for an RVS post.

I'm on Page 7 right now. I just...I can't, I can't keep up. Please slow down.

only amazing not fucking amazing. so go go turbo refa!

##unvote

## vote refa

#hammer dewound. (this is how I vote right)

Sorry if this is a bad vote but I've been behind the topic thanks to a rather busy weekend.

this is bad and you should feel bad. im kinda compelled to turbo you for this ngl.

so thats not a lot of original content. well whatever idc. i really cant seem to get my feet under me atm so.

also ## unvote

## vote:mancer

i feel like you have been around plenty and have had more than enough opportunities to actually put out your thoughts and i just havent got a townie feeling from what thoughts you have put out.

[Randa]

and of course im ninja'd. ill coment of larsa's post in a minute.

[Randa]

BBM, I think you're missing the point to be fair. Just because I don't broadcast my scum list, and narrate each and everything, does not mean that I'm not forming my own opinions, and will drop them soon enough. Are you familiar with the term "feigning activity"? That's what happens when you basically reiterate points that are already made by someone else. I had my own suspicions and pushes on Mancer and Dewound. If you don't see that, well then, i'm sorry. But I can't just switch up my play style to accommodate you to be able to read me.

If you'd give me something worth responding to, I'd do it. But fact is, and remains, you and Refa both have absolutely nothing. You're both tunneling me based on my early play, and BBM, now, it seems you're trying to throw baseline accusations with no substantiation. Because I can easily go back and quote things.

You wonder why I talk about myself a bunch? I get the same things to respond to over and over, yet you can't figure out why? Maybe, if you'd let the thread progress, instead of clogging up the game with the same non-existing arguments over and over it'd do some good. Because I personally get told to stop swatting the useless flies by someone who knows how I play, and yet it keeps coming. If you have a problem with me in later days, and want to lynch me for the hell of it, and we're actually ahead, then I'm cool with wasting a day to appease your suspicions of me that hold no merit. But at this point in time, cut it out. Unless you have a case that can actually be built, or have ANY substantiation outside of what you claim to be transparent, then by all means present it, and sway people to believe you.

What you're actually doing, is uselessly tunneling someone who is town, and has to clog up the thread with the same augmented defense over and over, because you can't stop tunneling to actually hunt scum. Nearly ALL over your posts have been about me, all with the same feigned content. They hardly differentiate, Refa is the same way. So, I'll put it quite simply, I'm not responding to them anymore toDay. This is the last time I will say this.

Better yet, let me ask you some questions. to just, y'know help you out of the tunnel here: If you want me to push forward and form my reads, or get them from me; Why not ask? Instead of assuming, mind you. If you were to ISO me, you'd see the same augmented defense over your merit-less accusations. What about that is indicative to a town or scum play style? Explain. Do you perhaps think that both you and Refa are tunneling me due to me having a different play style that you're not adjusted too? Because what you are nitpicking is all semantics of how you play, and in my case shows no malevolent intent at all. If you can point out any negative connotation or malevolent intent in my play, please do so at this time.

More to game on the rest of the game outside the tunnel that Refa and BBM are trying to bomb on me.

mudslinging imo. refa and bbm have actually commented on the rest of the game. not as in depth as they have on you, but they have still talked about. and iirc your focus has been mostly on defending yourself instead of actually trying to find scum. sooooo... yeah not a fan of the post. a

[Randa]

why is there a random a at the end of my post. smh laptop.

[#HBC Larsa]

Breaking down this horrible wagon if I can see it. Sorry if the way we see things don't mesh but you're really on the wrong track and I simply don't want to deal with arguing about myself all the damn time. I'm Steve Vai, Town role-blocker/enabler. I don't know what the enabling explictly does nor have I asked, but I have been told by the mod that I can give people 'compensation', which must play a part in enabling someone's role to work or something like that?

If you want to lynch me still despite this, then at least give me time to fully post my thoughts.

Soup, this is grimy as all hell and you know it. NO ONE openly PR claims unless it's a fake claim when they're at L-2, at this point we still had time on our side, and you decide to claim. Seems like the addition to the end of your flail. That coupled with the AtE is NOT what I expected to see out of you. Of course, I haven't played with you in a long time, but still, where you're coming from is mad grimy. Even your inital points with trying to defend Mancer look like you trying to gain town points of stopping a lynch, perhaps? It backfired. I've tried the same thing recently with moderate success in Bingo Mafia... But, i'll appease you for a moment, are there any modifiers to your role? Answer this since you claimed.

Because I have good reason to believe that you're lying, and so it would seem that Prims does as well. And basically at this point, it's: Die, scum, die.

Rapier, I'm gonna be honest with you. I got in over my head about you about your play and admitted that I was at fault and am willing to let bygones be bygones. I really didn't want to play this game where I had to constantly explain myself, and it's alarming to me that what I feel, from my perspective, I have been given all I could possibly. It's a moot point though and Larsa/Omega would tell me that I'm being emotional again, when really emotions play in part of my actions and why I do things. It's a facet of my playstyle that doesn't really go away. I'm not asking for pity, I just want people to understand where I'm coming from when I inevitably flip town.

Eww my god this post is grimy, soup. You know better than I do that there's no point in trying to take this stance. You got backed into a corner, and end it with a claim you got from a different game probably around here (Cause I've looked around to, and I see where you got that idea from iirc) then couple that with appealing to Rapier. Also, there are ALWAYS red flags when you start a sentence with "I'm gonna be honest with you..." Have you not been honest the rest of the time? Your second to last line: I'm not asking for pity. But you explicitly name drop me and Marshy, and explain it to be a playstyle. It's been a long time since I've been town with you in a game, but this doesn't seem like townSoup to me.

Just grimy posts, dude.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Prims, bump Psyche/Randa to your secondary lynch choices and we are in sync.

Digging deeper today.

[#HBC Larsa]

mudslinging imo. refa and bbm have actually commented on the rest of the game. not as in depth as they have on you, but they have still talked about. and iirc your focus has been mostly on defending yourself instead of actually trying to find scum. sooooo... yeah not a fan of the post. a

Mudslinging is a personal attack, and that is not. Don't get oversensitive because they can't pull out of an extraordinarily wrong tunnel scenario.

Randa, go ISO me. I'm not dealing with the same asinine stuff anymore.

And to be fair, I don't care if your a fan of the post or not. I can't please everyone here. And also, no they've hardly commented on the rest of the game. Refa's hardly been here. It's been one excuse after another, and BBM posts like three lines every 4 pages. Just because I've been around more, and had more people throwing the same useless questions at me redundantly, doesn't mean I haven't posted about other things. Jesus, read the game.

Also, you're attachment on to BBM and Refa now seems of more personal interest to you since you've been getting called scummy. lol, it's transparent.